Enter Shikari - The Last Garrison

posted
Total Posts
77
show more
riffy
There is no point in saying that something is of low quality and not adding anything to back up your own words. If you thing something should not be bubbled, go ahead and explain your reasons. This will help us understand you as well as improve the quality, so, in the end all of us would only benefit from well-explained concerns.

We did look through things and polishied things up. h4d0uk3n1 basically did pretty much everything all by themselves, but still

So yeah, except for certain things that are sort of unpolished it's all cool in my eyes.
Topic Starter
Hectic
Changelog (mostly minor visual fixes):

still alive
00:41:444 (2,3,4) -
00:52:970 (4) -
01:03:749 (3,4) -
01:39:226 (2,3,4,5) -
01:54:142 (3) -

insane
00:26:456 (4,5,1) -

hard
00:32:284 (4,5) -
01:33:406 (2) -
01:38:206 (5) -

normal
00:43:139 (3,1,2) -

Chatlog saved
Kurai

Winter Story wrote:

also Kurai, I'd appreciate it if you can reconsider the bubble on this map since quality is not on an acceptable level (If, by chance this map is not going to get popped, should it be bubbled, I'm going to have conflicted feelings on the mapping standard nowadays)
If you fail to provide me a proper reasoning as to why the quality of this map should be a hindrance to its nomination, then I am not going to take your opinion into account (i.e. I don't care about your feelings, I want facts). This map is probably one of the best I have modded since I joined the BNG 3 weeks ago as it is extremely well structured: patterns all follow a certain logic that is consistent throughout the music while still providing pattern variety, jumps illustrate intensity variations in the music perfectly, SV changes make sense, etc.
I believe you only have a problem with the aesthetics of this map as it does look pretty old school (somehow this map reminds me of this one which is definitely a good one), and I don't see why this would be an issue.

I'm bubbling this set, if you have anything to add, feel free to do so, h4d0uk3n1 will decide whether or not he wants to listen to your suggestions or not.
riffy
I'd rather compare it with something made by Natteke in terms of the feel of certain patterns, but I have to agree with Kurai, it's most definitely well made and deserves a chance to be ranked.

Too bad I can't place a lovely heart on it!
Underdogs

Kurai wrote:

If you fail to provide me a proper reasoning as to why the quality of this map should be a hindrance to its nomination, then I am not going to take your opinion into account (i.e. I don't care about your feelings, I want facts). This map is probably one of the best I have modded since I joined the BNG 3 weeks ago as it is extremely well structured: patterns all follow a certain logic that is consistent throughout the music while still providing pattern variety, jumps illustrate intensity variations in the music perfectly, SV changes make sense, etc.
I believe you only have a problem with the aesthetics of this map as it does look pretty old school (somehow this map reminds me of this one which is definitely a good one), and I don't see why this would be an issue.

I'm bubbling this set, if you have anything to add, feel free to do so, h4d0uk3n1 will decide whether or not he wants to listen to your suggestions or not.
subjectively speaking, the map still needs polishing on a few perspective, and yes. Mainly on aesthetic (but we all know it's not a must to add aesthetic). But I guess I can't do much if the nominators itself are set on ranking this when there are much more better set that can be exhibited (can't really show a few but surely there are a few that deserves a spot in the ranked section).

In addition to that, quality of the map is still lacking from my point of view so I do hope a veto could be set up from a deeming nominator as someone told me not to complain too much and let the nominator do their job (by quality, i do not mean from my point of view. I am comparing 2016-2017 maps that have much higher quality and comparing them to this map, this needs a lot of work before it can be deem as 'ready for rank').

I do hope I can reach an understanding here, instead of just following the ranking criteria alone. Should I solely following the ranking criteria, then I could have file a complaint as to why my set is popped even when there is nothing in hindrance to make it unrankable (link : t/518872/start=90 )
Topic Starter
Hectic

Winter Story wrote:

Kurai wrote:

If you fail to provide me a proper reasoning as to why the quality of this map should be a hindrance to its nomination, then I am not going to take your opinion into account (i.e. I don't care about your feelings, I want facts). This map is probably one of the best I have modded since I joined the BNG 3 weeks ago as it is extremely well structured: patterns all follow a certain logic that is consistent throughout the music while still providing pattern variety, jumps illustrate intensity variations in the music perfectly, SV changes make sense, etc.
I believe you only have a problem with the aesthetics of this map as it does look pretty old school (somehow this map reminds me of this one which is definitely a good one), and I don't see why this would be an issue.

I'm bubbling this set, if you have anything to add, feel free to do so, h4d0uk3n1 will decide whether or not he wants to listen to your suggestions or not.
subjectively speaking, the map still needs polishing on a few perspective, and yes. Mainly on aesthetic (but we all know it's not a must to add aesthetic). But I guess I can't do much if the nominators itself are set on ranking this when there are much more better set that can be exhibited (can't really show a few but surely there are a few that deserves a spot in the ranked section).

In addition to that, quality of the map is still lacking from my point of view so I do hope a veto could be set up from a deeming nominator as someone told me not to complain too much and let the nominator do their job (by quality, i do not mean from my point of view. I am comparing 2016-2017 maps that have much higher quality and comparing them to this map, this needs a lot of work before it can be deem as 'ready for rank').

I do hope I can reach an understanding here, instead of just following the ranking criteria alone. Should I solely following the ranking criteria, then I could have file a complaint as to why my set is popped even when there is nothing in hindrance to make it unrankable (link : t/518872/start=90 )
tl;dr, mapping is not about how map fits in current meta, its about how things in map show music, about making logical sense and about fun
Underdogs

h4d0uk3n1 wrote:

tl;dr, mapping is not about how map fits in current meta, its about how things in map show music, about making logical sense and about fun
if that's your perspective then you are mistaken. What do you mean by 'logical sense'? How do 'things in map show music' actually interpret in the map? Now I am not that subjective to the fact I am blind to see that you did your part to reflect the song well. But doing so without consistency and actually getting noticed by nominators saddens me when there are much better maps that can be bubbled and ranked. But instead something like this is deemed as 'ready for rank'.

I'm going to stop here and not cause drama because if nominators deem this set as ready then I won't interfere. It's just, subjectively speaking, the map is not yet ready and I am warning you in advance.
riffy

Winter Story wrote:

subjectively speaking, the map still needs polishing on a few perspective, and yes. Mainly on aesthetic (but we all know it's not a must to add aesthetic). But I guess I can't do much if the nominators itself are set on ranking this when there are much more better set that can be exhibited (can't really show a few but surely there are a few that deserves a spot in the ranked section).

In addition to that, quality of the map is still lacking from my point of view so I do hope a veto could be set up from a deeming nominator as someone told me not to complain too much and let the nominator do their job (by quality, i do not mean from my point of view. I am comparing 2016-2017 maps that have much higher quality and comparing them to this map, this needs a lot of work before it can be deem as 'ready for rank').

I do hope I can reach an understanding here, instead of just following the ranking criteria alone. Should I solely following the ranking criteria, then I could have file a complaint as to why my set is popped even when there is nothing in hindrance to make it unrankable (link : t/518872/start=90 )
If you think a change is needed, come and make that change happen. Be specific and point out exact timestamps as well as reasonable explanations on why you think certain aspects should be changed. Please, refer to this map and this map only and explain your concerns. Remember, that none of us have to go ahead and explain anything, unless you specifically address issues and stop overgeneralizing.

Otherwise, there is no point and we might just as well assume that your goal in this case is to personally attack the mapper or nominating BN by purposely and with no reason holding up the set.

Oh, and I'm sure we all could appreciate if -Kazuto could practice their sense of humor somewhere else, unless they have some relevant input concerning the map itself.
Topic Starter
Hectic
*sigh*. I would be a bit happier if Winter Story and his anime loving classmates would not post in this beatmap's thread ever again. I think its quite obvious why I wish such thing - too many words has been spoken without any real evidence. For me it still looks like a personal attack and I actually don't know why I deserved that. I checked post with bubble pop on winter's map and it made me realise quite a lot (this kind of self-advertising is really impudent though and I don't appreciate that at all). Winter was trying to use same ideas as a bn who popped his bubble to "blast" my map. It makes me a bit sad that usually after bubbles and hearts people get congratulations and such stuff, and what I got is this. I hope situation will become better soon
nextplay
Grettings!

I have some concerns about the map

[Normal]

The Overall settings are kinda random make them cs 3 and ar 4 current one don't fit with the overall setting spread
00:11:713 (2,3,4,5) - This is should be sliders considering that the circles only follow the drums here which is kinda not fitting the music imo
00:29:541 (3) - Why is this a sharp slider? The music don't change here and o the red tick there is nothing to emphasize
00:19:256 (1,2,3,4,5) - I don't have really nothing against it but this movement might be a bit too hard for beginners so having those linear would be better
00:29:541 (3,1,2) - this movement is really forced here should consider changing it
00:32:970 (1,2) - this is ending on a strong drum which should be clickable so equal both of this sliders instead 2/1 2 1/1 slider
00:38:393 (1,2) - ^ okay this is rhythm is worse than before the big white tick has a weak sound while the tick has a strong a sound and the sliderend too
00:43:817 (1,2) - ^
00:49:241 (1,2) - ^
00:56:035 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - this complete section feels not finished skipping vocals and only priority the instrumentals is not a bad idea but in this case it don't fit with the music at all
02:00:243 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - ^
01:18:664 (6,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2) - delete some slider make them circles this a way too long strain of sliders
<at this point it's just a quick look>

01:54:820 (1,2) - those are way too less curved straight would fit here too
02:44:127 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - this is aesthetically worse with only curved slider
03:36:793 (3,4,5,1,2) - I suggest 4,5 as a slider so the difficulty will not going to increase a lot

side note: If you want to make it harder than would be a smaller cs harder too

[Hard]

00:10:341 - For what is this green line having 00:11:027 (1) - with half of the speed don't fit the song and singer is not slower here too
00:15:827 (4) - why is this a 1/4 reverse? having 2 circles here would fit more 4 would be a clickable vocal and 5 would be a clickable drum the current one starts with the vocal and ends on the drum so the drum is not that clickable
00:21:313 (6) - ^ Note: here is the drum even stronger
00:18:570 (1,2) - this is kinda hard to read for beginners
00:22:513 (2,3,4) - this has the same emphasis as 00:23:198 (5) - my suggestion would be reducing the emphasis on 2,3,4 and the section to 5 would be more noticeable (the change to the 2 1/1)
00:26:456 (5) - make this one into a 1/2 slider because 00:26:798 - has a clickable sound and 5 would follow the music better
idk like I'm not the best in modding hards so that's kinda all I guess

I don't really agree with the map but gratz for bubble if you don't fix anything I guess

h4d0uk3n1 wrote:

My Angel Kanan wrote:

Grettings!
02:44:127 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - this is aesthetically worse with only curved slider uh, you meant "with only straight"?yes xd sorry for miss type tho
00:11:713 (2,3,4,5) - This is should be sliders considering that the circles only follow the drums here which is kinda not fitting the music imo do you mean 1/2 sliders or?.. anyway, i'm following drums 95% of the time in all diffs so ye, also these circles represent high pitched guitar sounds too I meant 1/1 slider and like the drum on 3 and 5 are pretty weak so xd
Topic Starter
Hectic
Bring it on my dude, i'll reply after you point out every one of your concerns

edit: ok, i guess i'll reply to this for now
Topic Starter
Hectic

My Angel Kanan wrote:

Grettings!

I have some concerns about the map

[Normal]

The Overall settings are kinda random make them cs 3 and ar 4 current one don't fit with the overall setting spread i want to keep it relatively challenging for beginners
00:11:713 (2,3,4,5) - This is should be sliders considering that the circles only follow the drums here which is kinda not fitting the music imo do you mean 1/2 sliders or?.. anyway, i'm following drums 95% of the time in all diffs so ye, also these circles represent high pitched guitar sounds too
00:29:541 (3) - Why is this a sharp slider? The music don't change here and o the red tick there is nothing to emphasize i don't think theres need to be something on red tick though, i just use this shape sometime, good vareity. also 00:28:170 (2,3) - singer #2, 00:27:484 (1,2,4,5) - singer #1
00:19:256 (1,2,3,4,5) - I don't have really nothing against it but this movement might be a bit too hard for beginners so having those linear would be better if its challenging - its totally fine as it is now. also it represents vocal stress well
00:29:541 (3,1,2) - this movement is really forced here should consider changing it i can't see how it forced, i think its pretty easy and straight forward
00:32:970 (1,2) - this is ending on a strong drum which should be clickable so equal both of this sliders instead 2/1 2 1/1 slider
00:38:393 (1,2) - ^ okay this is rhythm is worse than before the big white tick has a weak sound while the tick has a strong a sound and the sliderend too
00:43:817 (1,2) - ^
00:49:241 (1,2) - ^ song intensity affects object density (theres pishifat's video about such stuff, check them out)
00:56:035 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - this complete section feels not finished skipping vocals and only priority the instrumentals is not a bad idea but in this case it don't fit with the music at all
02:00:243 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - ^ absolutely same idea as above
01:18:664 (6,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2) - delete some slider make them circles this a way too long strain of sliders i don't see it as a problem
<at this point it's just a quick look>

01:54:820 (1,2) - those are way too less curved straight would fit here too i really like this curve, also they correspond to each other nicely
02:44:127 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - this is aesthetically worse with only curved slider uh, you meant "with only straight"? anyway, consistency + this is subjective, looks fine for me
03:36:793 (3,4,5,1,2) - I suggest 4,5 as a slider so the difficulty will not going to increase a lot difficulty changed from 1.73 to 1.72.. really?

will continue later

h4d0uk3n1 wrote:

*sigh*. I would be a bit happier if Winter Story and his anime loving classmates would not post in this beatmap's thread ever again. I think its quite obvious why I wish such thing - too many words has been spoken without any real evidence. For me it still looks like a personal attack and I actually don't know why I deserved that. I checked post with bubble pop on winter's map and it made me realise quite a lot (this kind of self-advertising is really impudent though and I don't appreciate that at all). Winter was trying to use same ideas as a bn who popped his bubble to "blast" my map. It makes me a bit sad that usually after bubbles and hearts people get congratulations and such stuff, and what I got is this. I hope situation will become better soon
I think you kinda don't get it the Bubble is not really deserved with the maps quality. That you wouldn't get congratulations is like the bubble is not deserved with the map quality (what I basically said already) they don't hate you or something. yeah I think you understand what I want to say I don't hate or want to blast your map either We (winter story and I) just want to improve the maps quality
Once I saw interesting thought on the page of some bn or qat member, i'm not sure. The point was that map's quality is mostly about how mapper can explain their choices

-Kazuto wrote:

I posted for rhythm incarnate spam :miku: what does it even mean
Plaudible

h4d0uk3n1 wrote:

*sigh*. I would be a bit happier if Winter Story and his anime loving classmates would not post in this beatmap's thread ever again. I think its quite obvious why I wish such thing - too many words has been spoken without any real evidence. For me it still looks like a personal attack and I actually don't know why I deserved that. I checked post with bubble pop on winter's map and it made me realise quite a lot (this kind of self-advertising is really impudent though and I don't appreciate that at all). Winter was trying to use same ideas as a bn who popped his bubble to "blast" my map. It makes me a bit sad that usually after bubbles and hearts people get congratulations and such stuff, and what I got is this. I hope situation will become better soon
That's the nature of the ranking process, if people disagree with a nomination they can offer mods in efforts to get attention for a veto. You say that it looks like a personal attack, though rarely is that the case - more so just concern with what is being pushed to ranking in an effort to improve the map before it achieves that status. It happens to many sets all the time for whatever reasons. Now, since you seem certain in your reasoning for what you've mapped and have what you need to support it, there's no need to get worked up over the mods being posted. Keep things cool here and just respond with your reasoning for what you have and move on, we don't need to make things personal.

And as others have said, if you believe there's reason to prevent this map from being pushed forward, don't generalize and give thorough reasoning. Being brash and not supporting broad statements isn't very helpful to improve the set.
Kurai
Talked with the mapper in PM as he wanted to improve some patterns in Insane:
  1. 01:38:035 (8,1) - made the transition between those two sliders more intuitive and less sudden. (slider + circle → reverse slider; making the pattern similar to 00:32:456 (8) - ).
  2. 01:07:006 (4,5) - mapped all those patterns the same way for the sake of consistency.


Removed the spam posts in this thread. Stay respectuous if you don't want me to issue sanctions.
Topic Starter
Hectic
If someone needs explanation on certain patterns/objects choices/etc., I suggest talking to me in-game for claryfication (i am very barely afk) (before that I suggest looking through mods, since your concern could be already explained). If your suggestion makes sense, I'd be happy to consider making changes
Shmiklak
lol, I thought this map wouldn't get bubbled. gj.
Topic Starter
Hectic
да ну, прикольная мапа. Спасибо
Celektus
M4M from here. Since this got bubbled I'll only point out possibly unrankable things.

[ Insane]
  1. possibly obscured reverse arrows 00:18:570 (1) - 00:20:456 (2) - 02:52:356 (1) -

If you want a better mod pm me. gl with the mapset~
Topic Starter
Hectic
Took a look with default skin - easily readable because of drastic time period between reverses and objects which overlap them. Why did it take you so long D: Anyway, thanks, you too
Topic Starter
Hectic
What I found on Normal:
  1. 00:25:427 (2,3,4) - (3) really stroke my ear as I was playing since its the only slider throughout the whole diff which is not hitsounded (because neither snare or bass drum land on its head or tail). I figured out that this pattern follows vocal for some reason and I want to change it so it fits drums (just as whole diff). In the second "red" section object choice for the same part of music is pretty correct. wasfix, new looks
  2. 03:09:675 (3,4) - this blanket doesn't seem as made well enough (noticable while playing, at least for me) (picture)
  3. 03:36:793 (3,4,5,1,2) - It is too many circles in a row for unjustified reason (In this diff I use many circles in a row to show really valuable sounds in music, this place doesn't seem like it deseves that). also this pattern is ugly lol Decided to change 1,2 to slider (I understand that I use circles for same sounds in both of choruses 00:53:986 (3,4) - 01:59:565 (3,4) - but since this chorus is quite unique comparing to others, this makes sense) also variety, why not (how it would look after change)

Also there's unneeded green timing point on Hard 00:10:341 - I think removing that would be a good idea (don't know if unrankable though)

I don't want to bother Kurai again since I think I already asked for too much, so I may leave these fixes until discussion with a person, who is responsible for qualifying. If Kurai doesn't mind rebubbling again tho and finds these changes cool, I'd be happy to upload them
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply