20:53 JeZag: let me point out some immediate ones
20:53 Einja: i don't know what you mean
20:53 JeZag: 00:04:953 (1,2) - 
20:53 Einja: sorry
20:53 JeZag: 180 degree copy paste circular like this is outdated
20:53 Einja: it looks nice
20:53 JeZag: looks wacky in an electro song (any pretty much anywhere tbh)
20:53 Einja: said yamicchi
20:53 JeZag: LOL
20:53 Einja: i was planning to do 120 degree rotate
20:53 Einja: but
20:54 Einja: yami said that was ugly
20:54 Einja: and part of me kinda agreed
20:54 JeZag: personally i dont like CURVED things like that
20:54 JeZag: gimme a sec
20:54 Einja: so mir was right
20:54 Einja: aesthetics are subjective depending on person
20:54 JeZag: idk, i personally dont like curved sliders that are 180 degrees
20:54 JeZag: but too "ovular"
20:54 JeZag: definitely, aesthetics is subjective
20:55 Einja: i think we should worry about the big errors of the map
20:55 Einja: if there are any
20:55 JeZag: there is another tip of aesthetics i can sorta make
20:56 JeZag: this one is even more subjective than the last one
20:56 Einja: ok
20:56 JeZag: in general, try to keep sliders either "vertical or horizontal"
20:56 Einja: let's see if i agree
20:56 Einja: show example
20:56 JeZag: using this "rule of aesthetics"
20:56 JeZag: 00:04:953 (1,2) - 
20:56 JeZag: this is is not as good as it would be 
20:56 Einja: oh
20:56 JeZag: if it were simply rotated a bit more
20:57 *JeZag is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1173113 USAO - Get on]
20:57 Einja: by how much?
20:57 JeZag: im basing this rule off of the sexy mappers and maps i respect
20:57 JeZag: if you look at get on, literally all kicsliders and straightsliders are up/down
20:57 JeZag: left/right
20:57 JeZag: admittedly, they have a bit of tilt so its not perfect straight
20:58 JeZag: but i swear ive never seen like a 45 degree angle
20:58 JeZag: northwest, northeast... yada yada yada
20:58 Einja: 02:19:343 (2,1,1,1,1,1) -
20:58 Einja: explain
20:58 Einja: :^)
20:58 Einja: especially during the 204 bpm part
20:58 JeZag: the sliders themselves are L/R
20:59 Einja: more horizonal kicksliders come out during 204 bpm part
20:59 JeZag: what i mean is that you'll never see a straight slider that is going NE to SW
20:59 JeZag: or NW to SE
20:59 Einja: but i'm assuming that's because there is a different part of the song
20:59 JeZag: like SUPER slanted
20:59 Einja: oh
20:59 Einja: that plays badly as well'
20:59 JeZag: ok let me rephrase, those ones are just a LOT more rare than the ones that go N/S or E/W
21:00 Einja: oh
21:00 JeZag: which led me to develop a "rule of aesthetics" that you should try to keep things horizontal or vertical
21:00 JeZag: but not diagonal
21:02 Einja: dang
21:02 JeZag: now i might be pulling stuff straight outta my ass
21:02 JeZag: but that is another reason why i dont like the oval that is 00:04:953 (1,2) - 
21:03 JeZag: not only are the sliders diagonal
21:03 JeZag: but if you rotate it by 40 degrees clockwise 
21:03 Einja: keep going
21:03 JeZag: so that both are L/R
21:03 JeZag: then the movement itself is diagonal
21:03 Einja: disgusting
21:03 JeZag: either that
21:03 JeZag: or i just really really
21:03 JeZag: dont like ovals here
21:03 Einja: you hate ovals
21:03 JeZag: let me just draw something
21:03 JeZag: yeah pretty much
21:03 Einja: just like how i hate parallel sliders
21:05 JeZag: https://snag.gy/nKeaL8.jpg
21:05 JeZag: https://snag.gy/DJwZyu.jpg
21:05 JeZag: i really like both of those patterns for 180 degree rotations
21:05 JeZag: but i dont like ovals
21:05 Einja: fuck the first one
21:05 Einja: maybe the second one
21:06 JeZag: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
21:06 JeZag: similarly, regarding 00:07:181 (2,3) - 
21:06 JeZag: ehhhh i no like
21:06 Einja: is there anything else we can talk about
21:06 Einja: about mep
21:06 JeZag: id rather see
21:07 Einja: 00:07:181 (2) - if i flipped this
21:07 JeZag: imagin if 00:07:626 (3) - was flipped vertically
21:07 Einja: it would look worse tbh
21:07 Einja: oh man
21:07 Einja: never mind
21:07 JeZag: put it in the same location
21:07 JeZag: but flip vertically
21:07 JeZag: i think it looks better
21:07 Einja: oh man
21:08 JeZag: so this is just my oval prosicution complex
21:08 JeZag: ok lets see if theres anything else i can pick on thats not ovals
21:08 Einja: i flipped 2 and rotate 3 by 90 degree
21:08 Einja: that's PERFECT
21:08 JeZag: cause you know the gist
21:08 JeZag: LOL
21:08 JeZag: yo can you make 00:11:191 (3) -  part of the pattern
21:08 JeZag: it looks like a poor fit curved rn
21:09 JeZag: if it were blanketing the tail of 00:10:299 (1) -  i would accept that
21:09 JeZag: but right now i think it would do much better straight and slanted 
21:09 Einja: i did a far blanket with 00:10:299 (1) -
21:09 Einja: actually that's already there
21:09 JeZag: oh, the blanket is off
21:09 Einja: but if i put it too close to 00:10:745 (2) -
21:09 Einja: it wouldn't give much emphasis for the violin
21:09 JeZag: ok let me illustrate
21:10 Einja: look at all the patterns similar to that
21:10 JeZag: you dont need it to be close but right now the blanket is still "off"
21:10 Einja: fixed that
21:10 JeZag: https://snag.gy/RGk3vj.jpg
21:10 JeZag: this is exaggurated to illustrate
21:10 JeZag: but you get it
21:10 JeZag: also make it less curved too
21:11 JeZag: also 00:14:458 (1,2) - is pretty not ok
21:11 Einja: i get it
21:11 JeZag: it would be ok if they were straight lines and crooked
21:11 Einja: o
21:11 Einja: forgot to fix that
21:11 JeZag: but i literally cannot even this
21:11 Einja: yeah
21:11 Einja: i fixed that too make it look like that oval pattern you hate so much
21:11 JeZag: 00:15:497 (2) - i think this would play better as 1/2 instead of 3/4
21:12 Einja: i'd rather not
21:12 JeZag: cause i know you want sustain, but it makes clicking 00:15:794 (3) -  a bit awk imo
21:12 JeZag: its ok if it stays like that tbh
21:12 Einja: i don't wanna change it
21:12 Einja: i like sustain
21:12 JeZag: yeh its fine
21:12 Einja: it's better like that
21:12 JeZag:  ok next
21:12 Einja: wew
21:12 JeZag: 00:16:686 (2,4) - 
21:12 JeZag: right now this is aesthetically meh
21:13 JeZag: because both are composed of straight lines
21:13 JeZag: but 4 is obviously crooked from the first half of 2
21:13 Einja: agre
21:13 JeZag: i would recommend making 4 curvy and not straight cause this is a bit tilting
21:13 Einja: curved slider 4
21:13 JeZag: yeeeeh u get what im going for
21:14 Einja: but the main question is
21:14 Einja: is the map rankable?
21:14 Einja: :^
21:14 JeZag: it probably is 
21:14 JeZag: just need to iron out a lotta stuff
21:14 JeZag: 00:20:993 (5) - 
21:14 JeZag: y no kickslider
21:15 Einja: why not
21:15 Einja: it'll play bad
21:15 Einja: it's also a sign that something different is approaching
21:15 JeZag: i see i see
21:16 JeZag: i just dont think its reason enough to change it cause imo 00:21:141 (1,2,3,4,1) -  is easy to read
21:16 JeZag: cause its a decrease in difficulty due to low distance
21:16 JeZag: i know if you add a kickslider the flow would be terrible
21:16 JeZag: but when you were mapping it, i think this wouldve been more consistent as a kick
21:16 Einja: yeah
21:16 Einja: consistent, but flow breaking
21:17 JeZag: with remap, it can flow well and be consistent but remapping is hardddd
21:17 Einja: i am not remapping lantinid
21:17 Einja: this took me a while to make
21:18 JeZag: LOL
21:18 JeZag: no i meant only this one section
21:18 JeZag: specifically only 00:19:804 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - 
21:18 JeZag: so that you could add a kickslider at the end and make it flow
21:18 Einja: i'd rather not
21:18 JeZag: but yeah if you judge its not worth then dont bother
21:18 JeZag: its fine as is
21:19 Einja: the streams already correlate to one another
21:19 Einja: they are all flipped 120 degrees and each one is more spaced over time
21:20 JeZag: oh hey
21:20 JeZag: check this out
21:20 JeZag: 00:19:804 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - 
21:20 JeZag: if you select this all
21:20 Einja: wot
21:20 Einja: EW
21:20 JeZag: flip it horizontally
21:20 Einja: IT LOOKS LIKE A FIDGET SPINNER
21:20 JeZag: and then rotate it 50 degrees clockwise
21:21 Einja: what about it
21:21 JeZag: then drag it upright accordingly
21:21 JeZag: you can stick a kickslider at the end
21:21 JeZag: and still have it flow well
21:21 JeZag: rotate the entire pattern and move it accordingly to how you see fit
21:22 JeZag: but this will preserve your pattern while allowing you to put in that finaly kick, if you want to
21:22 Einja: dang
21:22 Einja: thanks
21:23 JeZag: one thing i want you to learn is how to "remap easily"
21:23 Einja: what does that mean
21:23 JeZag: for example if someone told me to make 00:20:993 (5) - into a kickslider 
21:23 JeZag: i would pretty much do what i told you to do
21:24 JeZag: 00:19:804 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - 
21:24 JeZag: highlight all that, rotate and flip and do things like that
21:24 JeZag: its very lazy, but it works and thats that
21:24 JeZag: being able to recognize how to preserve your work while "appealing to others" is pretty much win win
21:24 Einja: so taht's basically a remap
21:24 JeZag: but its hard to do, so you have to learn ways to do it
21:24 Einja: wow
21:24 Einja: impressive
21:24 JeZag: yeah but there are easier ways to do it than start from scratch
21:25 JeZag: the first thing you have to realize is how much if it you have to redo
21:25 JeZag: and how much you can save
21:25 JeZag: when i saw your pattern, i knew immediately that anything before 00:19:656 (2) - doesnt have to change
21:25 JeZag: this is because this hitcircle pretty much stops flow
21:25 Einja: yup
21:25 JeZag: so ANYTHING following it is pretty much yolo and free
21:26 JeZag: from there, you can do the remap, but reusing is easier
21:26 JeZag: so thats that
21:26 Einja: i'd rather reuse
21:26 JeZag: ok, now regarding the rest, the dnb part
21:26 Einja: dnb?
21:26 Einja: where
21:26 JeZag: 00:22:181 (1) - 
21:26 JeZag: here on out
21:26 Einja: oh
21:26 Einja: :thonk
21:27 JeZag: when you get to all those typical 5 stream patterns n shit
21:27 JeZag: so regarding the oval patterns here
21:27 JeZag: i honeslty think they're great and fine
21:27 JeZag: just as long as they're not sliders
21:27 JeZag: but rather triplets and 5-plets
21:27 JeZag: idk i just really cant stand oval sliders idk idk
21:27 Einja: show example
21:28 JeZag: 00:28:567 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - 
21:28 JeZag: if this were sliders
21:28 JeZag: i would say no no
21:28 JeZag: but it plays well as triplets n stuff
21:28 Einja: yeah
21:28 JeZag: 00:25:299 (6,7,8) - 
21:28 JeZag: i would make this "one curve" instead of making the hitcircles straight into the curved slider
21:28 JeZag: if you know what i mean
21:29 Einja: i wasconcerned about that
21:29 JeZag: to fix this, simply rotate these 3 CCW maybe 30 degrees
21:29 JeZag: and then move 7 so that its curved right
21:29 JeZag: move 7 down a bit
21:29 JeZag: and 6 up a bit
21:30 JeZag: what do you think?
21:31 Einja: works for me
21:31 JeZag: keep in mind, altho 00:25:299 (6,7,8) - seems "a bit off but ok" for you
21:31 JeZag: it probably is that way for others too
21:31 JeZag: but for me (i hope im not alone) this is pretty not good
21:32 JeZag: i think i made this same bad thing in GHOST but i tried my best to fix it because i dont think it has good flow
21:32 Einja: nice
21:32 Einja: i'd rather have flow over aesthetics
21:32 JeZag: have you checked out that other dude who makes mapping videos thats not pishifat
21:32 JeZag: - mo -
21:32 Einja: no
21:33 Einja: oh 'mo'
21:33 JeZag: ok so his theory on flow (same as pishi) is that you have both linear momentum
21:33 JeZag: and angular momentum
21:33 JeZag: to put it simply, you have straight, and you have curves
21:33 Einja: i saw pishi'd vid
21:33 JeZag: 00:25:299 (6,7,8) - 
21:33 JeZag: i think this is bad because you are going from straight to abrupt curve flow
21:33 JeZag: ok with that out of the way
21:33 JeZag: 00:26:933 (1) - 
21:34 JeZag: this is absolute taboo for me personally aesthetically
21:34 Einja: O
21:34 JeZag: i absolteuly cant stand red anchors that are bent like this that are too close to heads or tails
21:34 Einja: i didn't mean that
21:34 JeZag: pretty much i hate it if the inner portion of the slider body is "invisible"
21:34 JeZag: i
21:34 Einja: same here
21:34 JeZag: ill illustrate what i mean
21:35 Einja: no i understand
21:35 Einja: i hate stuff like that as well
21:35 JeZag: https://snag.gy/mlK90t.jpg
21:36 JeZag: just want to see if you get what i mean and agree
21:36 JeZag: the only exception is when its bent back inside
21:36 JeZag: like those super fancy sliders n shit
21:36 Einja: ye
21:36 JeZag: but when the curve is little
21:36 JeZag: like not sharp
21:36 JeZag: but almost like straight angle or whatever u call that shit
21:36 JeZag: like 160 degrees idk 
21:36 Einja: k
21:36 JeZag: that looks horrible if the red anchor is close to the head/tail
21:37 JeZag: 00:31:537 (4) - 
21:37 JeZag: pls make this same as 00:31:389 (3) - 
21:37 JeZag: i dont care if you copy paste
21:37 JeZag: in fact, please do copy paste
21:38 Einja: i do
21:38 JeZag: ayee
21:38 Einja: most of the sliders and streams are copy pasta'd
21:38 JeZag: 00:41:191 (1) - 
21:38 JeZag: i know you want this emphasized
21:38 Einja: leave it alone
21:38 JeZag: but try emphasising by using TINY DS instead of HUGE DS
21:38 Einja: it did nothing wrong
21:38 Einja: no
21:38 JeZag: LUL
21:38 Einja: tiny ds would lower it
21:38 Einja: and i want it hard
21:38 Einja: difficult
21:38 JeZag: i meant like almost stacking this on 6
21:38 JeZag: ok u rite
21:39 Einja: the map is already spaced stream heavy
21:39 JeZag: tru
21:40 JeZag: soemthing else im looking at currentlyt
21:41 JeZag: 00:41:488 (1,2,3) -  so i definitely misread this the first time i played so prob my fault
21:41 JeZag:  but i think this could be better rhythm too
21:41 Einja: learn 2 read
21:41 JeZag: feelsbadman
21:41 Einja: i ran out of ideas when doing that part
21:41 Einja: lmao
21:42 JeZag: https://snag.gy/pnO2Yx.jpg
21:42 Einja: too calm for circles
21:42 Einja: that many circles*
21:43 JeZag: i think this rhythm is more engaging to play, and more easy to aesthetics
21:43 JeZag: it should be fine honestly
21:43 Einja: i'll think about it
21:43 JeZag: you might be worried about 200 bpm singletap but make them close together
21:43 JeZag: also ofc 00:41:191 (1,2) - are the first two you see in that screenshot
21:44 JeZag: if you're worried about density, you can turn  3 4 into sliders
21:44 JeZag: but the way i suggested has better emphasis on the whatever-it-is-in-the-background
21:45 Einja: if i change that
21:45 Einja: it won't be as consistent
21:45 JeZag: pretty much all the active clicks are important imo
21:45 JeZag: and same for the rest of this quiet section, although then it would actually involve tons of remapping
21:45 JeZag: cause you know, it is a different rhythm
21:45 JeZag: up to you
21:45 Einja: ye
21:45 Einja: i like it the way it is
21:46 JeZag: 01:01:240 (1,1) - 
21:46 Einja: also i'm going to sleep soon
21:46 Einja: so i think we should hurry
21:46 JeZag: for me, these were "too fast"
21:46 JeZag: i know they're weird sounds
21:46 JeZag: but you only have to make the sliders look weird
21:46 JeZag: you dont need to make them unexpectedly fast tooooooo
21:46 Einja: the sounds there
21:46 Einja: are kind of "swift"
21:47 Einja: 01:01:240 (1) - this basically sounds like a katana being pulled out
21:47 Einja: but speed up by alot
21:47 JeZag: true
21:47 Einja: so it's fast
21:47 JeZag: but .5 SV to 1/5 SV
21:47 JeZag: 1.5
21:47 Einja: i like it like that
21:47 JeZag: is 3x
21:47 JeZag: that YUUUUUGE
21:48 Einja: yes
21:48 Einja: thats a big change
21:48 JeZag: :(
21:48 JeZag: you can make contrast thats big but also readable
21:48 JeZag: actually
21:48 JeZag: its fine
21:48 JeZag: but make 01:00:795 (1) - 
21:48 JeZag: more straight
21:48 JeZag: so the SV change is more obvious
21:48 Einja: 01:00:200 (1,2,1,1,2,1,1,2,3,4,1) - i could just put a spinner for all of this
21:49 Einja: but it'll be way to boring
21:49 Einja: too*
21:49 Einja: maybe for the lower diffs i'll do it
21:49 JeZag: LOL
21:49 JeZag: 01:00:795 (1) - 
21:49 JeZag: nah i think players can grasp the message if this is more obvious about SV change
21:49 Einja: yes
21:49 JeZag: but since this is too curled up in itself
21:49 JeZag: its hard to judge anything
21:49 Einja: curled up?
21:49 JeZag: yeah
21:49 JeZag: its basically head touching tail
21:50 JeZag: i would like it layed out more if possible
21:50 JeZag: and the last two things i'd like to bring to attention
21:50 JeZag: is that firstly 01:42:973 (1) - probably should be further than the rest of the stream for oomph
21:50 Einja: oh man
21:50 Einja: i should just move it away so it's not related to the stream at all
21:50 JeZag: its almost blasphemous for 00:41:191 (1) - to be sooo far away
21:51 JeZag: and yet the ultimate stream in the 2nd kiai
21:51 JeZag: is not even
21:51 Einja: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8593353
21:51 Einja: does this live up to your expectations
21:51 Einja: :^)
21:51 JeZag: thats perfect
21:52 JeZag: 01:32:280 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - 
21:52 JeZag: for this stream
21:52 JeZag: you can have groups of 4
21:52 Einja: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8593359 no but seriously
21:52 JeZag: but the streamjump should only be everty group of 8 really
21:52 JeZag: that is bad flow
21:52 JeZag: i would just put it as far left as it can go
21:52 JeZag: and call it good
21:52 Einja: i wouldn't say it's bad
21:52 Einja: flw
21:52 Einja: flow
21:53 JeZag: i dont think its good cause coming from the stream youve got flow going like Clockwise down
21:53 Einja: i have such big stream curves because i want to emphasize the white ticks
21:53 JeZag: and then suddently you jump to the centre of this circular flow
21:53 JeZag: like going around the clock wise then when you reach 6 o clock then rush towards the centre
21:53 JeZag: that kinda flow
21:54 Einja: 01:32:280 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - this part is that way because it's the most intense part of ze song
21:54 JeZag: yeah i think a good place to put it would be like x:0   y:270
21:54 JeZag: regarding 01:32:280 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - 
21:54 JeZag: i know its intense but the synths only swell around 01:32:577 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - 
21:54 Einja: i can't move it to x o
21:54 JeZag: with 01:32:874 (1) -  being the pinnacle of the synth melody
21:54 Einja: x 0
21:55 JeZag:  wait just drag it all the way left
21:55 JeZag: and you have x:0
21:56 JeZag: the actual final thing i wanna touch is 01:50:101 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - 
21:57 JeZag: i get it stylistically, you have the same thing going on one higher sounding then one an octive lower
21:57 JeZag: but just the fact that the two sets of 4 are copy is enough
21:57 Einja: ye]
21:57 JeZag: i would rather have the last 4 be closer
21:58 JeZag: cause right now theres too much movement for the slow calm section
21:58 JeZag: i recommend something like this
21:58 Einja: close?
21:58 Einja: closer*
21:58 JeZag: https://snag.gy/a1uRzA.jpg
21:58 JeZag: yeah
21:59 JeZag: so to wrap up this irc, two big things i think stand in front of you and rank quality
21:59 JeZag: that first calm section, i think the rhythm can be better
21:59 JeZag: and that stream in the middle of the two kiais can be better expressed
21:59 JeZag: other than that, this map is gucccci
21:59 Einja: yup
21:59 Einja: thanks
21:59 JeZag: np

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230,118,91611,1,0,0:0:0:0:
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391,164,92428,1,0,0:0:0:0:
394,194,92502,1,0,0:0:0:0:
398,224,92577,2,0,L|403:276,3,37.5
405,291,92874,5,0,0:0:0:0:
376,300,92948,1,0,0:0:0:0:
347,306,93022,1,0,0:0:0:0:
317,306,93096,1,0,0:0:0:0:
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336,151,95547,1,0,0:0:0:0:
306,133,95621,1,0,0:0:0:0:
275,120,95695,1,0,0:0:0:0:
241,113,95769,1,0,0:0:0:0:
200,99,95844,6,0,B|144:97|67:118|67:118|65:145|73:180,1,194.999991073609
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156,151,98145,1,0,0:0:0:0:
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286,298,98666,2,0,P|322:252|223:217,1,194.999991073609
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286,298,99186,1,0,0:0:0:0:
286,298,99260,6,0,P|347:288|377:162,1,194.999991073609
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80,103,100225,1,0,0:0:0:0:
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84,180,100373,1,0,0:0:0:0:
87,219,100447,1,0,0:0:0:0:
89,258,100522,1,0,0:0:0:0:
92,297,100596,6,0,L|199:306,1,97.4999955368044
287,310,100894,1,0,0:0:0:0:
201,222,101042,2,0,P|193:170|206:113,1,97.4999955368044
274,63,101339,1,0,0:0:0:0:
360,150,101488,2,0,P|368:202|355:259,1,97.4999955368044
287,310,101785,5,0,0:0:0:0:
201,222,101933,1,0,0:0:0:0:
360,245,102082,1,0,0:0:0:0:
193,305,102230,1,0,0:0:0:0:
295,187,102379,1,0,0:0:0:0:
326,164,102453,1,0,0:0:0:0:
364,157,102527,1,0,0:0:0:0:
401,168,102601,1,0,0:0:0:0:
430,194,102676,2,0,P|446:234|445:266,3,48.7499977684022
447,270,102973,5,0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,103047,12,0,105349,0:0:0:0: