Cameron Mizell - @CMizell928

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Topic Starter
Nyxi
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Celektus
Hi! I saw your post on reddit about being stuck with mapping a bit so I thought I might give some Overall and specific Feedback. Since you mentioned that you've seen a lot a Pishifat videos I will make references to them.

[ Extra]
  1. I overall think that a lot of your rhythms are good, You use a lot of circles though in parts where sliders could be used more effectively to prioritize certain sounds over each other, what often happens is that you get a lot of 1/2 jump spam like at 00:06:873 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - even though only these circles have Vocals 00:06:706 (5,1,2,4,6,7) -

    That can be ok yet your spacing also treats them all with the same intensity which doesn't prioritize the Vocals or Snare for example.

  2. like kinda touched on above when you use a lot of 1/2 you kinda need to compensate the lack of emphasis on strong sounds with spacing. Like here 00:07:040 (3,4) - the jump into 4 is the same spacing as all the other even though jumps like this have Vocals on them 00:06:706 (1,2) - and Jumps like these have a even stronger sound into them since there is also a Snare 00:07:206 (4,5) - .

    If you only use spacing to prioritize you would need to use 3 different spacing: not strong, strong (either Vocal or Snare) and very strong (Vocal and Snare). That can be very complicated though which is why prioritizing with slider would be better in most cases.

  3. I would also recommend rewatching Pishis video on Filler Rhythm. As that one also mentioned in the end that being consistent with how you use filler per section can also be a thing to improve your rhythms consistency. For example most of you slider emphasize the head only like these 00:05:873 (2,4) - yet this one has strong sounds on both ends 00:08:706 (2) -

  4. There are also some moments where I think you could've extended certain slider by 1/4 to express a held sound like 00:10:706 (7) - Something like this

  5. When it comes to streams like 00:15:040 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - I would suggest reading Kroytzes User page as he has a few tips on streams design... I'll just quote it here.

    Kroytz wrote:

    Rhythm:
    Assuming the song is 4/4, always remember that a single measure contains 16 beats where the 17th beat starts a new measure. The 2nd half of the same measure will be a white tick that holds the 9th beat. If the songs asks for a shift or changes tone, these are the spots in which you'd start your NC and change your stream direction or apply a varying DS. Most songs split their measures in half when introducing streamy sections. If this is the case, your magic numbers are 9 and 17 (NC).
    Sometimes an artist will split a measure into four parts (essentially halving their half measures). When this happens, every white tick in the measure gets emphasized somehow. Thus, your magic numbers will be 5,9,13,17.

    Consistency:
    Consistency is crucial when mapping streams! When there are 4 measures (of streams), this is called a phrase. For phrases, every two measures should be equal! Our patterns for completing a phrase are:
    XXYY or XYXY
    Now, within each pair of measures there must be consistency too! Some examples of pairing measures can be:
    16 circles = A
    9 circles, 4 kicks = B
    4 circles, 2 kicks (repeat 2 times) = C
    2 circles, 1 kick (repeat 4 times) = D
    With single-measured streams, we can split the measure in half and be consistent to the music right? Phrases work the same! You can split a phrase in half (A + B) but remember that the pattern must be repeated in the second half of the phrase. You do not want to end up with a pattern that looks like ABCA or any variant that isn't equal (ABCD is the only exception on rare occasions).
    Direction change

    Stream corner

    also this portion 00:15:040 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5) - could be more round by using only one slider shape together with Ctrl + Shift + F
  6. and that NC should start here 00:15:706 (2) - and not here 00:15:623 (1) - as the white ticks are what you should orient your NCs around most of the time unless you have a certain idea behind them. In this case on the White tick is also the first Tom drum.

    []

  7. I would remove this NC here 00:06:873 (1) - and put it here 00:06:706 (5) - so that the start on a new downbeat is signalized and not
  8. a triple in this calm section seems too dense 00:17:206 (4,5,6) - you can also barely hear the sound on 5, you can but not clearly enough to be mapped in a calm section in my opinion.
  9. this spacing is way to big for a calm section it is pretty much wider than your spacing in the first section 00:17:873 (1,1,1) - the Vocals being mapped are very special but the don't express intensity, but rather tension building in my opinion so very low spacing combined with different movement might be good
  10. the stream starts here already 00:18:290 -
  11. these 3 notes are more intense than the other stream notes from before 00:19:040 (1,2,3) - I think since this is an Extra that spacing them out might work well.
  12. these notes are mapped to nothing 00:19:623 (3,5) -
  13. there is a open hi hat sound here 00:20:373 - and it's also a big white tick so skipping it seems intuitive, I would suggest mapping it passively (with a slider end)
  14. not sure why you used a buzz slider here 01:20:038 (10) - as I can only here the 3 sounds in the beginning and the hat on the white tick at the end.
  15. why did you put a break here? 01:23:038 - to me that seems like a very cool section to map and it has enough intensity too. I would even argue that the song climax is in that part of the song at around 01:29:038 -
  16. so the full screen jump here I think isn't fitting 02:04:871 (7,8) - I mentioned already that the "climax" of the song in my opinion was in that break and overall spacing as big as this is something nobody should recommend you to use with the knowledge you have so far. When you start mapping trying to use always the least amount of spacing with the most possible contrast, this is mostly the best way to learn how to handle spacing.

    For example depending on your overall SV this can be a jump too I saw that you didn't use SV changes yet, though I would recommend to do so. Use SV changes as a tool to plan out the songs intensity like section A is 0,5x since it's very calm, section B is 1x since it's pretty mediocre intensity compared to section A and section C is 1,3 since it's the Climax and more intense compared to both A and B.

    When making jump try and always ask yourself "How intense is this in comparison with something else?" this can be applied to sections, Instruments and even similar sounds for example pitch goes up = spacing increases... though I would recommend starting out by prioritizing certain sounds over each other before going into more linear spacing.

    []


If you need any help and more feedback I'll be more than glad to help you. A lot of things in mapping are idea you need to learn by doing something and then receiving Feedback. There are still a lot of things in you map that aren't up to standard, but you finished this which in my opinion is already a great step forward and a lot of ideas are very consistent which I appreciate personally. Get some more mods on thins through m4m and such and don't stop making maps while trying to push this one, as your first few maps most likely won't be your first ranked ones. gl~
Topic Starter
Nyxi
I overall think that a lot of your rhythms are good, You use a lot of circles though in parts where sliders could be used more effectively to prioritize certain sounds over each other, what often happens is that you get a lot of 1/2 jump spam like at 00:06:873 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - even though only these circles have Vocals 00:06:706 (5,1,2,4,6,7) -
laymen's terms please.

Like here 00:07:040 (3,4) - the jump into 4 is the same spacing as all the other even though jumps like this have Vocals on them 00:06:706 (1,2) - and Jumps like these have a even stronger sound into them since there is also a Snare 00:07:206 (4,5) - .
i don't know how to differentiate them, with the pattern i increased spacing by 0.1 each time
1-2 is 2.5x
2-3 is 2.6x
3-4 is 2.7x

so on

I would also recommend rewatching Pishis video on Filler Rhythm. As that one also mentioned in the end that being consistent with how you use filler per section can also be a thing to improve your rhythms consistency. For example most of you slider emphasize the head only like these 00:05:873 (2,4) - yet this one has strong sounds on both ends 00:08:706 (2) -
i have, and yeah i dont like that slider i've already changed it. although i dont know what you mean by rhythm consistencies (other than that)

There are also some moments where I think you could've extended certain slider by 1/4 to express a held sound like 00:10:706 (7) - Something like this
i dont get it (laymen's terms?)

When it comes to streams like 00:15:040 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - I would suggest reading Kroytzes User page as he has a few tips on streams design... I'll just quote it here.
also dont get

also this portion 00:15:040 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5) - could be more round by using only one slider shape together with Ctrl + Shift + F
and that NC should start here 00:15:706 (2) - and not here 00:15:623 (1) - as the white ticks are what you should orient your NCs around most of the time unless you have a certain idea behind them. In this case on the White tick is also the first Tom drum.
done and i understand that now

I would remove this NC here 00:06:873 (1) - and put it here 00:06:706 (5) - so that the start on a new downbeat is signalized and not
done

a triple in this calm section seems too dense 00:17:206 (4,5,6) - you can also barely hear the sound on 5, you can but not clearly enough to be mapped in a calm section in my opinion.
This is the only thing i'm adamant about cause i really like it, and i believe it's good filler to prep the player up for the triples and doubles that come

this spacing is way to big for a calm section it is pretty much wider than your spacing in the first section 00:17:873 (1,1,1) - the Vocals being mapped are very special but the don't express intensity, but rather tension building in my opinion so very low spacing combined with different movement might be good
the stream starts here already 00:18:290 -
these 3 notes are more intense than the other stream notes from before 00:19:040 (1,2,3) - I think since this is an Extra that spacing them out might work well.
fixed fixed fixed, also kept the combo start here 00:19:040 (1,2,3) -


these notes are mapped to nothing 00:19:623 (3,5) -
they are, i removed the short 1/4 slider and replaced it with a single note, should be more clear now, i almost think it should be a longer slider from 00:19:540 (2) - to 00:19:790 (3) -

there is a open hi hat sound here 00:20:373 - and it's also a big white tick so skipping it seems intuitive, I would suggest mapping it passively (with a slider end)
done

not sure why you used a buzz slider here 01:20:038 (10) - as I can only here the 3 sounds in the beginning and the hat on the white tick at the end.
there's a guitar distortion that makes the guitar sound like it's 'glitchy' i can remove it though, i can see it being confusing and easily muffled over

why did you put a break here? 01:23:038 - to me that seems like a very cool section to map and it has enough intensity too. I would even argue that the song climax is in that part of the song at around 01:29:038 -
it seemed really "samey" for me, though i'm not opposed to mapping it

so the full screen jump here I think isn't fitting 02:04:871 (7,8) - I mentioned already that the "climax" of the song in my opinion was in that break and overall spacing as big as this is something nobody should recommend you to use with the knowledge you have so far. When you start mapping trying to use always the least amount of spacing with the most possible contrast, this is mostly the best way to learn how to handle spacing.
i lowered the spacing and made each it's own NC (im not opposed to changing that though)

For example depending on your overall SV this can be a jump too I saw that you didn't use SV changes yet, though I would recommend to do so. Use SV changes as a tool to plan out the songs intensity like section A is 0,5x since it's very calm, section B is 1x since it's pretty mediocre intensity compared to section A and section C is 1,3 since it's the Climax and more intense compared to both A and B.

When making jump try and always ask yourself "How intense is this in comparison with something else?" this can be applied to sections, Instruments and even similar sounds for example pitch goes up = spacing increases... though I would recommend starting out by prioritizing certain sounds over each other before going into more linear spacing.
i understand but i dont really "get it" or how to do it


If you need any help and more feedback I'll be more than glad to help you.
best to contact in game really instead of here, it's more convenient for me at least.
LwL
Hayo, also from reddit, since you said you prefer irc mod just pm me whenever I'm online~
Celektus
Also more of a quick thing. When someone mods your map you should give them kudos by clicking this below my name where I did my mod. You can only give a person kudos once per map thread to avoid farming and you also shouldn't give kudos to Guest diffs or anything that isn't feedback.

LwL
2017-07-21 02:06 LwL: want me to give you a quick mod now?
2017-07-21 02:06 - Ashe -: are you here to slave away at helping me with my shitmap
2017-07-21 02:06 - Ashe -: r e s p o n s e t i m e
2017-07-21 02:06 LwL: that is not the purpose of my existence but it is something I'll do :^)
2017-07-21 02:06 LwL: hehe
2017-07-21 02:07 - Ashe -: this whole slow part is somethign i've been experimenting with fillers
2017-07-21 02:07 - Ashe -: so i guess i could use an opinion on it xD
2017-07-21 02:08 LwL: same map right?
2017-07-21 02:08 - Ashe -: mhm
2017-07-21 02:09 - Ashe -: i guess ill just give you context
2017-07-21 02:09 - Ashe -: 00:17:206 (4,5,6) -
2017-07-21 02:10 - Ashe -: not even mapped to anything but idk, for me it feels natural
2017-07-21 02:10 LwL: it is mapped to something
2017-07-21 02:10 LwL: rhythmically I think it's fine
2017-07-21 02:10 LwL: if there actually was nothing then tbh it'd feel bad because it's such a slow part
2017-07-21 02:11 - Ashe -: 00:29:873 (2,3,4,5,6,7) -
2017-07-21 02:11 LwL: though that section doesn't look that great aesthetically
2017-07-21 02:11 - Ashe -: 567 i think is fine
2017-07-21 02:11 - Ashe -: are you calling me ugly
2017-07-21 02:11 LwL: xd
2017-07-21 02:11 LwL: yeah 234 has pretty unusual rhythm
2017-07-21 02:12 LwL: with the strong sound being on the blue tick
2017-07-21 02:12 LwL: mapping it like this is the simple way and can work to make things less confusing for players
2017-07-21 02:12 LwL: you could also make it a slider from 00:29:706 (1) - and 00:29:956 (3) - into a 1/4 slider
2017-07-21 02:12 LwL: so you only click on the actually important sound
2017-07-21 02:13 - Ashe -: that whole slow part is weird for me
2017-07-21 02:13 LwL: http://i.imgur.com/sdrhG2C.png something like this would also work nice for that triple, basically anything that emphasizes that blue tick without making it unplayable
2017-07-21 02:13 - Ashe -: now when you say "you could also" do you mean i should, or that it's literally just another way of doing it lol
2017-07-21 02:13 LwL: just another way
2017-07-21 02:13 LwL: with better emphasis in this case
2017-07-21 02:14 LwL: but simplifying rhythm sometimes is better to make it more playable
2017-07-21 02:14 - Ashe -: ill make it a triangle
2017-07-21 02:14 LwL: but then you don't put emphasis specifically on the blue tick
2017-07-21 02:14 LwL: but also on the one after
2017-07-21 02:14 - Ashe -: https://my.mixtape.moe/obuefh.png
2017-07-21 02:15 LwL: ya this feels more like it calls attention to the triple as a whole
2017-07-21 02:15 - Ashe -: dammit
2017-07-21 02:15 LwL: tbh the slider variant or keeping it as it is would probably work best, shifted triples like I linked are kinda rare
2017-07-21 02:16 LwL: you don't always have to emphasize everything perfectly, just think about what you are emphasizing and whether that fits or not
2017-07-21 02:16 LwL: playablity is important
2017-07-21 02:16 LwL: and over everything else consistency
2017-07-21 02:16 LwL: if you're consistent you can justify most things
2017-07-21 02:16 - Ashe -: well i guess thas the problem, i thought that was really playable
2017-07-21 02:17 LwL: 00:39:539 (5,6,7) - this blue tick doesn't actually have anything
2017-07-21 02:17 LwL: it is
2017-07-21 02:17 LwL: really playable
2017-07-21 02:17 - Ashe -: so i guess you could say idk whats really playable
2017-07-21 02:17 LwL: it's just a triple anyone can play that
2017-07-21 02:17 - Ashe -: youre saying thats a good use of the triple
2017-07-21 02:17 LwL: yes
2017-07-21 02:18 LwL: simplifying the rhythm, and it's not overmapped since there's sounds on all the notes
2017-07-21 02:18 LwL: it's just that in my personal opinion it could be better but I can totally see something like this in a ranked map
2017-07-21 02:18 LwL: and what I mean about consistency
2017-07-21 02:18 LwL: 00:40:622 (2,3) - 00:41:289 (7) -
2017-07-21 02:18 LwL: same sounds basically
2017-07-21 02:19 LwL: mapped with different clicking rhythms without the song changing in intensity or anything
2017-07-21 02:19 LwL: (also doubles starting on blue ticks are really hard to play but it fits)
2017-07-21 02:20 - Ashe -: yeah, i thought spacing the doubles out a bit would help differentiate them
2017-07-21 02:20 LwL: that's fine
2017-07-21 02:20 LwL: it's just rhythmically hard
2017-07-21 02:20 LwL: definitely better to space them out a bit imo
2017-07-21 02:21 LwL: I agree with what the other guy said that the rhythm is good, the map just lacks good spacing emphasis pretty much everywhere
2017-07-21 02:21 LwL: there's a basic difference between calm and intense parts but not much sensible difference between the individual notes in those parts
2017-07-21 02:22 - Ashe -: so i guess i could kill a lot of the spacing in the calm part
2017-07-21 02:22 LwL: yeah it could be a little lower
2017-07-21 02:22 LwL: but
2017-07-21 02:22 LwL: primarily
2017-07-21 02:22 LwL: 00:06:706 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - something like this feels mostly random
2017-07-21 02:23 LwL: it's expanding in spacing
2017-07-21 02:23 LwL: but why is it?
2017-07-21 02:23 LwL: some notes are clearly stronger than others imo
2017-07-21 02:23 - Ashe -: iunno, i just had that same theme throughout the entire song lol
2017-07-21 02:23 - Ashe -: i guess you could say for a reason as to why, there is none
2017-07-21 02:23 LwL: ya exactly
2017-07-21 02:24 LwL: that's the core problem
2017-07-21 02:24 LwL: ideally the position of every note has a reason
2017-07-21 02:24 LwL: general area because of emphasis, precise placement for aesthetics
2017-07-21 02:25 - Ashe -: so youre saying if i could use primarily the same spacing, and every snare hit be a new combo and improved spacing would be an actual idea
2017-07-21 02:26 LwL: for example yes
2017-07-21 02:26 - Ashe -: or literally just not change at all
2017-07-21 02:26 LwL: maybe not the nc spam, depends but yo ucan do it
2017-07-21 02:26 LwL: not changing at all is eh
2017-07-21 02:26 - Ashe -: well, back to consistent spacing i mean
2017-07-21 02:26 LwL: if the notes have different intensity that should be reflected imo
2017-07-21 02:26 LwL: but you can do it with flow and ncs
2017-07-21 02:26 LwL: to some extent
2017-07-21 02:26 - Ashe -: 2.5 spacing, not changing from 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 is what i meant
2017-07-21 02:27 LwL: yeah
2017-07-21 02:27 LwL: but if every note has the same spacing it also lacks particular emphasis
2017-07-21 02:27 LwL: it's best used when every not really is about the same intensity
2017-07-21 02:27 LwL: though you can use the same spacing and change flow direction or something to add emphasis
2017-07-21 02:28 - Ashe -: i was primarily mapping to the vocals i guess thats why i started off with them as the same spacing
2017-07-21 02:28 - Ashe -: i never increased the spacing til i was done
2017-07-21 02:28 LwL: I actually also map to the vocals primarily
2017-07-21 02:28 LwL: but you don't really emphasize them with that pattern
2017-07-21 02:29 LwL: 00:07:373 (5,9) - don't really have vocals for example
2017-07-21 02:29 - Ashe -: i can see what you mean
2017-07-21 02:29 LwL: so you could make it equally spaced but have 00:07:206 (4,8) - be sliders for example
2017-07-21 02:29 LwL: just using the drums as filler rhythm
2017-07-21 02:30 - Ashe -: yeah like 9 being a strong sound
2017-07-21 02:30 LwL: it's strong but there's no vocals
2017-07-21 02:30 LwL: so if you focus on the vocals
2017-07-21 02:30 LwL: you can just map it as a sliderend
2017-07-21 02:30 LwL: you just have to focus your rhythm on one thing primarily
2017-07-21 02:30 - Ashe -: ill probably just like, keep what i have now, and then fix it up asthetically
2017-07-21 02:30 - Ashe -: i should probably but fix in big airquotes
2017-07-21 02:31 - Ashe -: put* not but llo
2017-07-21 02:31 LwL: you could do that
2017-07-21 02:31 LwL: it's hard to really salvage something like this without remapping
2017-07-21 02:31 LwL: I speak from experience
2017-07-21 02:32 - Ashe -: 1 section at a time
2017-07-21 02:32 LwL: ya
2017-07-21 02:32 - Ashe -: a totally new map feels open and barren like i have to do everything from scratch
2017-07-21 02:32 - Ashe -: here at least i have something lol
2017-07-21 02:32 LwL: I get that
2017-07-21 02:32 LwL: oh and I wanted to say something about what the other guy quoted from kroytz' userpage about stream shapes
2017-07-21 02:33 - Ashe -: 00:13:373 (6,7) -
2017-07-21 02:33 it's good advice general but certain types of music *cough* metal *cough* like to deviate from it sometimes
2017-07-21 02:33 - Ashe -: should the slider here be on 6 instead of 7
2017-07-21 02:33 LwL: so trust your ears over that
2017-07-21 02:33 LwL: yeah
2017-07-21 02:33 LwL: definitely
2017-07-21 02:33 - Ashe -: i felt like the previous 2 sliders before that were out of place then i listened to them
2017-07-21 02:33 LwL: you could even make it a 1/1 slider to emphasize the vocals even more if yo uwanted to
2017-07-21 02:33 - Ashe -: all on the vocal starts
2017-07-21 02:34 - Ashe -: 00:11:373 (2,6) -
2017-07-21 02:34 - Ashe -: those 2 are basically the same
2017-07-21 02:34 LwL: 00:08:706 (2) - this also probably shouldn't be a slider since there's a pretty strong vocal on the sliderend
2017-07-21 02:34 LwL: yeah those are good
2017-07-21 02:38 - Ashe -: ii forgot to say this but emphasizing on those notes you were talking about instead of increased spacing
2017-07-21 02:38 - Ashe -: i was thinking of sliders? but that would break the theme i wanted to have around the map
2017-07-21 02:39 LwL: sliders work for emphasizing the sliderhead and any held sounds starting on it
2017-07-21 02:39 LwL: and specifically disemphasizing the sliderend
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