19.09 sullywally: hmm.. should I do an IRC mod instead :thonkang:
19.09 sullywally: I mean, it'll be easier for me explain, hmm...
19.09 Pencil-kun: mm sure i guess
19.10 sullywally: well, we'll be here for awhile, then..
19.11 sullywally: well, whenever you're ready for the IRC mod, hit me back..
19.11 sullywally: I'll be here for a while..
19.13 Pencil-kun: aight
19.14 Pencil-kun: aight im ready
19.14 sullywally: ok
19.14 sullywally: let's start with the keyword of this mod...
19.14 sullywally: Structure
19.14 sullywally: I think it's one of the lacking thing on this map..
19.15 Pencil-kun: wat
19.15 sullywally: some simple structure like 00:13:069 (4,5) - and 00:17:640 (4,5,1) -
19.15 sullywally: you could make them like linear so they'll look much better visually..
19.16 sullywally: as right now they look messy, since they didn't connect..
19.17 sullywally: 00:19:641 (3,4,5,6,1) - stacking why...
19.17 sullywally: you could do something like 00:10:497 (3,4,5,6,1) - to fix this..
19.18 sullywally: hm.. you're still here?
19.18 Pencil-kun: ye
19.18 sullywally: oh lol
19.19 Pencil-kun: dk whether im supposed to respond during irc mods e_e
19.19 sullywally: well, idk if I get timed out if I keep messaging you without respond lul
19.19 sullywally: I mean, if you want to reject it just say it...
19.19 sullywally: 00:24:783 (1) - random NC
19.20 Pencil-kun: hm
19.20 Pencil-kun: un-nc'd
19.20 sullywally: ok, now onto some juicy part..
19.21 sullywally: 00:30:283 (3,5,6) - move (6), so (3,5,6) is linear. that way you have some solid structure...
19.22 sullywally: 00:30:926 (7,8,9) - you might also need to move this triangle since 00:30:926 (7) - is connected to 00:30:640 (6) -
19.22 Pencil-kun: ohh
19.22 sullywally: you could just stack 00:30:926 (7) - on (5) or like give a bit spacing difference it's up to you...
19.23 Pencil-kun: hm ok
19.23 Pencil-kun: i placed it slightly above 9
19.24 sullywally: as long 00:30:926 (7) - is still connected to 00:30:640 (6) - by linear it's fine..
19.24 sullywally: you want to have a solid structural pattern, movement isn't enough...
19.24 sullywally: next
19.25 sullywally: 00:31:355 (10,11,12) - this curved triplet rather than it's just there, you can make it so it "blanket" 00:30:926 (7) -
19.26 Pencil-kun: oop i think i already did that fix just now
19.26 sullywally: https://puu.sh/xIsyL/4c19ac9351.png
19.26 Pencil-kun: i changed the triangle pattern abit so i had to fix the position of 7 anyway
19.26 sullywally: it'll probably looked like that
19.27 Pencil-kun: yep somewhat
19.27 sullywally: the triangle pattern isn't a problem, imo
19.27 Pencil-kun: nah changing it for slight improvement on aesthetics n flow
19.27 sullywally: hmm... okay.
19.28 sullywally: 00:31:355 (10) - I want to say NC this, but you know how bad I am with NC, so I guess I won't bother with NCing (unless its really obvious)
19.28 Pencil-kun: left an nc on 00:30:926 (1) -
19.29 sullywally: now check this
19.29 sullywally: 00:35:212 (4,5,6,7,8) -
19.29 sullywally: the touch on 00:35:212 (4,8) - is nice, but when you look at 00:35:498 (5,6,7,8) - it looks awful...
19.29 Pencil-kun: yep
19.30 Pencil-kun: hm
19.30 Pencil-kun: i think i'll make a very slight angle there without 5 and 7 touching
19.31 sullywally: [https://puu.sh/xIsJh/c8debfe3a3.png my suggestion of fixing it would be like this]
19.32 sullywally: it's a little bit cramped, I suppose, but we can work with it...
19.32 Pencil-kun: hm
19.32 sullywally: I copied 00:35:212 (4) - from 00:34:783 (2) - so they will make a parallel slider
19.32 Pencil-kun: there are a ton of overlaps in the later part of the map so i think it'll be better to with overlap
19.33 sullywally: I guess, It'll be like a learning curve lmao
19.33 Pencil-kun: hm
19.34 sullywally: 00:37:069 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - something back-and-forth like [https://puu.sh/xIsP4/f16835229a.png this] would be great, imo
19.35 Pencil-kun: dang that looks good o_o
19.35 Pencil-kun: will have to fix my general structure tho
19.35 Pencil-kun: i think i get the idea as well;
19.35 sullywally: yea, there's a lot of part where the structure can be fixed...
19.36 sullywally: your eye can comprehend a pattern easier when there's a structure to that pattern
19.37 Pencil-kun: hm
19.37 sullywally: so it's not just for aesthetic, it can also affect playability
19.37 Pencil-kun: just to check is there a strict definition of structure
19.37 sullywally: not really...
19.37 sullywally: but..
19.38 sullywally: when most ppl say structure, the first thing that come to mind is geometric shape
19.38 sullywally: like triangle, star, etc.
19.38 Pencil-kun: ah
19.38 sullywally: linear movement, or blanketing, is also part of structuring pattern
19.38 sullywally: it's a really broad term
19.39 Pencil-kun: i think i'll probaably try looking into it later on
19.39 sullywally: yea...
19.39 sullywally: 00:49:640 (2,3,4) - hmm...
19.40 Pencil-kun: its repeated later on in the same melody so i think it should be ok
19.40 sullywally: nah I meant as in structurally..
19.41 sullywally: I mean you did it linear for 00:51:926 (2,3,4) -
19.41 Pencil-kun: ahh
19.41 Pencil-kun: ah wait i didnt straighten it out e_e
19.41 Pencil-kun: didnt spot that ty
19.42 sullywally: 00:55:069 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - oh god, this jumps
19.42 Pencil-kun: im not really sure how to add structure to jumps e_e
19.42 sullywally: what I see from this jump is 2 different jump pattern 00:55:069 (1,2,3,4) - 00:55:640 (5,6,7,8) -
19.43 sullywally: it's less of structure and more of movement
19.43 Pencil-kun: hm
19.43 sullywally: the (1,2,3,4) is linear, while (5,6,7,8) is criss-crossing
19.43 Pencil-kun: well, basically
19.44 sullywally: hm?
19.44 Pencil-kun: wait, by movement which should i change exactyly?
19.45 sullywally: well, you could make it so 00:55:069 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - all of this is linear jump, or all of this is criss-crossing jump..
19.45 sullywally: mixing both together looks weird...
19.46 sullywally: 00:58:498 - hmm.. this section looks really clean...
19.47 Pencil-kun: hm
19.47 sullywally: 01:10:212 (2,3,1) - 01:10:783 (2,3,4) - when I first see it, I feel betrayed lmao
19.47 Pencil-kun: i think i'll keep the small jump section but nc the 5-6-7-8 for clarity
19.48 Pencil-kun: wot
19.48 sullywally: 01:10:212 (2,3,1) - when I first see this... 01:10:783 (2,3,4) - when the next pattern hits again, I expect it to move the same lmao
19.49 Pencil-kun: hm
19.49 Pencil-kun: i think i kinda get waht you mean
19.50 sullywally: 01:11:640 (1,2,3,4) - this rhythm, hmm....
19.51 sullywally: how about trying something like [https://puu.sh/xItkO/0b3f2414cd.png this rhythm]
19.51 sullywally: it fits better with the wub sound..
19.52 Pencil-kun: hm
19.52 Pencil-kun: sounds good
19.53 sullywally: well, I can't be bothered to check for the structure on this section, because the repeating music is killing me lmao
19.54 sullywally: I think the rhythm and flow looks kinda nice, altho some part might need some polishing
19.54 Pencil-kun: hmm
19.55 Pencil-kun: i think i'll have to focus on polishing aesthetics for the map
19.55 sullywally: ye
19.55 sullywally: 01:53:355 (1,2,3,4,5) - I dont think this decreasing distance jump is necessary imo
19.57 sullywally: there doesn't to be any decrease on intensity, so a decrease on DS is unnecessary
19.57 Pencil-kun: hm
19.58 Pencil-kun: i think i'll overlap 4 and 2 since, well theres a crapton of overlaps in this map anyways
19.58 sullywally: that can work, or criss-cross jump can also work too
19.59 sullywally: 01:54:355 (10,8) - stack
19.59 Pencil-kun: hm
19.59 Pencil-kun: sure
19.59 sullywally: 01:57:926 (1,3,5,6) - it's a shame that this isn't emphasized :\
20.00 Pencil-kun: was gonna add a double note stream actually but that would feel out of place
20.00 Pencil-kun: i think i'll replace the short 5 note stream with kick sliders for click emphasis
20.01 sullywally: yea, I was thinking of kickslider, for click emphasis
20.02 sullywally: 02:11:069 (7,8,9) - :thinking:
20.02 Pencil-kun: too compressed w/o structure?
20.03 sullywally: it's really... compressed
20.03 sullywally: I get the idea of the decreasing distance
20.03 sullywally: but, oh lord, I can't see what happen there..
20.03 Pencil-kun: tru :P
20.03 sullywally: maybe increase the distance before it, so they can still visible..
20.04 Pencil-kun: hm
20.04 Pencil-kun: increased the distance to visible while still trying to remain decreasing distance
20.04 sullywally: yep, that would be a logical solution...
20.05 sullywally: 02:38:783 - I like how the clap suddenly dissappear
20.06 sullywally: and replaced with soft-whistle
20.06 sullywally: please bring back the clap ;w;
20.06 Pencil-kun: idk, the bass seemed to overtake the clap o_o
20.06 Pencil-kun: aighto
20.06 sullywally: 02:41:069 (5) - btw for this 1/8 clapping madness...
20.07 sullywally: just hitsound only the sliderhead...
20.07 Pencil-kun: eeh i wanted it to be emphansised by its isolation
20.07 Pencil-kun: ok den
20.08 sullywally: dont hitsound both of it x.x its really loud
20.08 sullywally: 02:47:069 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - I mean for god sake, you even used clap for this stream lol
20.09 sullywally: so I think using the clap for the section before the stream is fine
20.09 sullywally: it's kinda fitting
20.09 Pencil-kun: hm
20.09 Pencil-kun: sure
20.09 sullywally: now, 1st kiai lol
20.10 Pencil-kun: here we go
20.10 sullywally: ugh.. I wanna test the movement with Relax >.>
20.11 Pencil-kun: :P
20.11 sullywally: I think the movement isn't really a big of problem, now that I see it..
20.12 sullywally: 02:56:355 (6,7,8) - over-hitsounding again..
20.12 sullywally: just clap the sliderhead not both...
20.13 Pencil-kun: hm
20.13 Pencil-kun: sounds good
20.14 sullywally: 03:09:069 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1) - now this part...
20.14 sullywally: the chance of someone sliderbreaking on this part is A LOT
20.15 Pencil-kun: wat
20.15 Pencil-kun: really?
20.15 sullywally: the movement is so... uncomfortable
20.15 sullywally: let's break down this part...
20.15 Pencil-kun: eeh i think i see how someone would sliderbreak
20.16 sullywally: 03:09:069 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - first of all, I can definitely see that this is copy-pasted
20.16 Pencil-kun: ye
20.17 sullywally: 03:09:212 (2,1) - I think this would be the part where most ppl sliderbreak
20.17 Pencil-kun: weird angle?
20.17 sullywally: first of all weird angle, but more importantly...
20.17 sullywally: 03:09:069 (1,2,2) - the visual spacing of this
20.18 Pencil-kun: ah
20.18 sullywally: when I first read this, my reflex is to aim for 03:09:498 (2) - instead of 03:09:355 (1) -
20.19 sullywally: 03:09:355 (1,2,1,2) - I guess this part is fine, since it's just linear movement, could probably make the distance of each sliderhead the same, but eh..
20.19 sullywally: 03:09:926 (1,2,3,4,1) - now this...
20.20 sullywally: well, the solution for this is easy, you'll just copy-paste 03:09:926 (1,3) - and boom. done...
20.20 sullywally: it make it easier for player to understand that this is just a criss-cross jump
20.20 Pencil-kun: hm
20.20 Pencil-kun: ok then
20.20 sullywally: when player see this pattern they are not seeing just 03:09:926 (1,2) - they are seeing 03:09:926 (1,2,3,4,1) -
20.21 sullywally: so when they are weirdly placed, player will get confused when they see this pattern
20.21 Pencil-kun: hm
20.21 Pencil-kun: w/o symmetry or something?
20.22 sullywally: it'll be easier to comprehend when it's symmetry
20.22 Pencil-kun: ye
20.22 sullywally: so 03:09:926 (1,3) - copy pasted this, and it'll look better..
20.23 Pencil-kun: hm
20.23 Pencil-kun: looks good
20.24 sullywally: 03:23:640 (1,2,3,4) - hmm.. this jump breaks from the circular movement of the previous jump..
20.25 sullywally: might wanna change that
20.25 Pencil-kun: hm
20.25 Pencil-kun: ok
20.27 sullywally: 03:37:355 - why is there so many variety rhythm on this part x.x
20.28 Pencil-kun: shet i just realized
20.28 Pencil-kun: e_e
20.28 sullywally: i dont want to say remap, but uh...
20.28 Pencil-kun: nah i was thinking the same thing e_e
20.28 sullywally: it's best if you only use like 1 or 2 rhythm variety...
20.29 sullywally: I guess 1 rhythm variety would be really boring, so 2 should be fine
20.29 Pencil-kun: hm
20.29 Pencil-kun: ok
20.32 sullywally: 03:37:355 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - I would recommend [https://puu.sh/xIuzg/c32df8acbf.png this kind of rhythm] since it fits the click emphasis of the song
20.32 Pencil-kun: hm
20.32 Pencil-kun: true
20.32 sullywally: use it as a base, and you could vary it a bit, just according to the song...
20.33 Pencil-kun: im probably gonna remap the entire 2nd kiai
20.33 Pencil-kun: or at the very least some sections
20.33 sullywally: ye
20.33 sullywally: 04:12:783 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - where's the 1/8 ;w;
20.34 Pencil-kun: felt like a playable stream would've fit better tho o_o
20.34 sullywally: it kinda fit, I guess...
20.35 sullywally: it's just that you've been using 1/8 for that sound...
20.35 Pencil-kun: hm
20.35 sullywally: 04:20:783 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - I like what you did for this pattern...
20.35 Pencil-kun: i could use a 1/8 kickslider stream to 1/4
20.36 sullywally: I mean I guess there's a lot of way to map that stream...
20.36 sullywally: 04:12:783 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - you could even scrap this whole stream, and map it with 2 1/2 slider, and it still fit
20.37 Pencil-kun: hm
20.37 sullywally: 04:13:355 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - altho, the dense stream really fit, so I guess you can leave it there...
20.39 sullywally: I think the part after the 2nd kiai is pretty straightforward in term of flow and rhythm..
20.40 Pencil-kun: hm
20.40 sullywally: structure-wise it can still be polished, but that's about it...
20.40 Pencil-kun: das all? o-o
20.41 sullywally: actually, hold on...
20.41 sullywally: 04:57:355 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - from what I see here, let's break to 3 part
20.42 sullywally: 04:57:355 (1,2,3,4) - counter-clockwise jump, 04:57:926 (1,2,3,4) - clockwise jump, 04:58:498 (1,2,3,4) - linear jump
20.42 sullywally: I like the variety that is going on... but.
20.43 sullywally: 04:59:640 (1,2,3,4) - clockwise, 05:00:212 (1,2,3,4) - linear jump, 05:00:783 (1,2,3,4) - linear jump
20.44 sullywally: all I want to say is it'll be great if you can keep it consistent, while still giving variety on the play
20.44 Pencil-kun: hmm
20.44 Pencil-kun: ima try that counter clock - clockwise - linear pattern
20.44 sullywally: the first set of 3x4 jump is really nice, and is enough variety, all you need is to do it consistently throughout the section
20.45 sullywally: and das all I can say for this mod...
20.45 Pencil-kun: holy shit thats a long mod
20.45 sullywally: I'll be collecting my kds now
20.45 Pencil-kun: yes