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R E A L T A L K (the state of this section)

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Stefan
t/611278 I hope this helps at least for a bit, so the endless list of stickied threads stops from now.
Lyawi

Stefan wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/611278 I hope this helps at least for a bit, so the endless list of stickied threads stops from now.
Great
RockRoller

Stefan wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/611278 I hope this helps at least for a bit, so the endless list of stickied threads stops from now.
Looks good and should help.

In the Rules should stand that skins made with osu!skinner are mixed skins. Many people dont know that and post their on this site created skins in this forum.
Stefan
Generally the thread should include guidelines AND rules. Because somethings are minor while others (not posting mixed skins) are rules that exist since years. And because nobody in the world goes around and read two seperated threads.
h3oCharles
Finally deadbeat woke up :D

and yea, this forum is a mess indeed, all of the mixed skins threads should have either a different section or be trashed/locked

and deadbeat should watch this as well, despite if he watched it already or not

EDIT1: I think we should also trash all of the question threads since they are already solved and they only make a mess
and deadbeat should REAAALLY look at completed skins queue, there is too much for my taste
deadbeat

h3oCharles wrote:

and deadbeat should REAAALLY look at completed skins queue, there is too much for my taste

Why can't you?
Why can't anyone else?
Why just me?
It is because I'm the who made the thread and you think you can't help?
Or is no one else willing to actually put real effort into helping?
Threads like this help in the sense that it can wake up moderators, but why should we be the ones to do everything. Someone else could of easily made a new compendium of skins and I would of gladly pinned it. Someone else could of easily taken over the completed skins queue and I would of gladly help with mod actions.
Just because I/we are moderators, doesn't mean we have to do everything. Just remember that.
RockRoller

deadbeat wrote:

h3oCharles wrote:

and deadbeat should REAAALLY look at completed skins queue, there is too much for my taste
Why can't you?
Why can't anyone else?
Why just me?
It is because I'm the who made the thread and you think you can't help?
Or is no one else willing to actually put real effort into helping?
Threads like this help in the sense that it can wake up moderators, but why should we be the ones to do everything. Someone else could of easily made a new compendium of skins and I would of gladly pinned it. Someone else could of easily taken over the completed skins queue and I would of gladly help with mod actions.
Just because I/we are moderators, doesn't mean we have to do everything. Just remember that.
Please look at my PM. I wrote something about it. Depending on your answer, I would take care of/ help with the compendium.


Put sure, that you are a mod shouldnt mean that you need to do that.
h3oCharles
lol sorry, forgot to mention that I'm salty about this situation lately

I did list out some, however moving them about is another thing
deadbeat

Stefan wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/611278 I hope this helps at least for a bit, so the endless list of stickied threads stops from now.

Going back to this for a second. This does kind of help a little, but unless we remove other stickied threads or announcements, it's just another stickied thread/announcement. We need to actually start unpinning some of them so there's less clutter
Geroyuni

deadbeat wrote:

Stefan wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/611278 I hope this helps at least for a bit, so the endless list of stickied threads stops from now.

Going back to this for a second. This does kind of help a little, but unless we remove other stickied threads or announcements, it's just another stickied thread/announcement. We need to actually start unpinning some of them so there's less clutter


Atleast in the old site, a lot has been unpinned. Something's wrong with the new website and it isn't updating pins (nevermind I'm dumb)
I'm also unable to see a lot of images (http://i.imgur.com/fYJNDdB.png) and it's taking quite a while to load anything.
Stefan

deadbeat wrote:

Stefan wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/611278 I hope this helps at least for a bit, so the endless list of stickied threads stops from now.
Going back to this for a second. This does kind of help a little, but unless we remove other stickied threads or announcements, it's just another stickied thread/announcement. We need to actually start unpinning some of them so there's less clutter
I haven't unpinned anything yet since I wasn't sure what you guys consider as important to keep pinned and what not. Obviously I was expecting to unpin threads after this one has been put in announce.
Incomp
Hey, now that's some progress.
atturbo555
Now just I can mark nuke icon for mixed skin forum only. And I know every moderators can't viewing all forum. But I don't know who is skinning moderator.
deadbeat
Assume for the time being, that myself and Stefan will be doing it. There will be some others helping out every now and then though when needed.
autoteleology
Damn, I was actually just about to post about this. I've been thinking for a while about why the skinning forum is a mess (and how to improve it).

1. There needs to be a separate subforum (not just a thread) for questions and FAQs. Nobody wants to read a 260 page thread full of random crap that might be several years old, and it has a tendency to really clog up the main forum.

2. "Completed skins" and the "queue" is only a mediocre solution to the problem I believe it is trying to address, curation of the best stuff on the forum. Something being "complete" doesn't mean it is good. I think it would be cool to have some method of community involvement in curation like voting or something.

3. There are too many stickies (and most of the stickies are old as dirt)

4. We might want to consider having subforums for taiko, CTB, and osu!mania

5. We need some kind of way to make it as obvious as possible for newbies to the forum that mixed skins are not welcome. My experience at Head-Fi causes me to recall their way of impressing upon users the golden rules of the classifieds.
deadbeat
1: I'll have to get back to you on that
2: The completed skins forum was a way for people to be able to find skins that were actually complete as apposed to a lot of the other skins in here. There was never really meant to be a certain level of quality expected. We can change this though rather easily
3: This is planned to be changed.
4: I don't know if splitting everything up so much fixes things. It might, but I'm not sure. I'd need to stick around longer to get a better idea.
5: People should always read the rules. I've already changed the guidelines thread to Skinning Rules. Once the stickied and announcement threads get thinned out, it'll be a lot more visible. I see no reason to throw information in peoples face because they're too lazy to read.
autoteleology

deadbeat wrote:

5: People should always read the rules. I've already changed the guidelines thread to Skinning Rules. Once the stickied and announcement threads get thinned out, it'll be a lot more visible. I see no reason to throw information in peoples face because they're too lazy to read.
But, you see, that's the whole conundrum. The kind of person who posts mixed skins is someone who will never go look for the rules because they don't care. They have no investment in the community whatsoever, which is why they don't know the rules in the first place, and also makes it futile to punish them afterwards because they have nothing to lose. They stumble onto the forum, vomit up their low effort garbage, and leave forever when everyone yells at them. The forum is ultimately what suffers, and not the poster, and we can only do something about it after the damage is already done. Expecting responsibility from the irresponsible inevitably leads to an unwinnable game of whack-a-mole.

There are really only two ways to solve the problem as far as I can see.

1. Find some way to force them to read, or at least see the rules before they can post. This won't necessarily stop them from posting their crap anyway, but could help stem the tide. My initial suggestion is essentially a low-resource version of this, because there may not be any available feasible mechanisms to actually make someone prove they read the rules, but we can certainly put them somewhere impossible to miss.

2. Active moderation. Essentially force everyone to post their stuff into a queue for acceptance or denial before it is moved into the forum for everyone else to see.

I also retract my suggestion to separate game modes into subforums because on second thought, it would be really overcomplicated for no benefit, not to mention that game types are often bundled together in a single skin.
deadbeat

Philosofikal wrote:

deadbeat wrote:

5: People should always read the rules. I've already changed the guidelines thread to Skinning Rules. Once the stickied and announcement threads get thinned out, it'll be a lot more visible. I see no reason to throw information in peoples face because they're too lazy to read.

But, you see, that's the whole conundrum. The kind of person who posts mixed skins is someone who will never go look for the rules because they don't care. They have no investment in the community whatsoever, which is why they don't know the rules in the first place, and also makes it futile to punish them afterwards because they have nothing to lose. They stumble onto the forum, vomit up their low effort garbage, and leave forever when everyone yells at them.

But if they don't care about that, would they really care if signs were made more obvious? If people don't care about rules, they'd just ignore them even if they know about them. I feel like you'd be putting in a lot of effort for minimal return.
autoteleology
I think it would help with certain cases. Sometimes people will just assume there are no rules because they aren't impossible to miss.

The only alternative is to have someone manually approve skins added to the forum. I personally think that's the best solution anyways, as long as it's kept up with.
lit120
uhh, just dropping by as a former skinner here

for few years, i've seen a lot of shits going on and clearly, i was pissed and disappointed to see that shit going on here for few years that i've been involving here. mixed skins, nsfw, a lot of shit stuff going on here. for some reason imo, mostly from these cases are likely from a newbie skinners who doesn't even know about the rules here A LOT. i didn't know what to do anymore since i mostly don't even care about it anymore for me in nowadays

well, at least all this cases for me are really shit for some reason by them in nowadays. just passing by anyway
Topic Starter
Garin
damn so many replies D:

the changes made so far are great and im glad things are being done, rules are still a problem but i can see why its hard to enforce.. maybe something like a banner message on the new post page could help? directing to the rules or just stating "no mixed skins allowed your post will be deleted" or something along those lines.

also good idea with the nuke icon, shall be doing that myself from now on
deadbeat
I've had a bit of thought into the rules for this place, and have considered rewriting them to be a bit more detailed. I might also rewrite the OP for the completed skins queue to make things more clear what exactly I feel each skin needs to be moved. Hopefully this will allow others to help out when they feel like it.
O2MasterFX
This is a great fun to read the whole through.

I would like to point out that most newcomers might not see pinned topics beforehand, so make the title in ALL CAPS is helpful. It is stated that those topics had to be read before posting and may also reduce newly posted mixed skins. Just saying.
h3oCharles
---===:::{--[::( !!! SKINNING RULES !!! READ THEM BEFORE POSTING ANY SKINS!!! )::]--}:::===---
^ do sth like this, cancerously visible on purpose

also, what about throwing old-meta skins into a separate section? Like kawaiipandah's Kagamine Len Rin and Nightcore HD
Lyawi

h3oCharles wrote:

---===:::{--[::( !!! SKINNING RULES !!! READ THEM BEFORE POSTING ANY SKINS!!! )::]--}:::===---
^ do sth like this, cancerously visible on purpose
please no
Maybe the development could do something there, for each forum of course. Just an idea
when creating a thread a little pop-up "hey hey wait, did you already read the subforum rules?"
I don't know if they take ideas...and if so, then I don't know where. I doubt it belongs to FR in that case
deadbeat

h3oCharles wrote:

also, what about throwing old-meta skins into a separate section? Like kawaiipandah's Kagamine Len Rin and Nightcore HD

Are you kidding me? For the record, I view the Nightcore HD skin as an incredibly good skin that people should look to for quality reasons.
While a lot of the skins in there are missing a few new things because of updates that have occurred over the years, I don't think I'd want to throw them out.
h3oCharles

deadbeat wrote:

h3oCharles wrote:

also, what about throwing old-meta skins into a separate section? Like kawaiipandah's Kagamine Len Rin and Nightcore HD
Are you kidding me? For the record, I view the Nightcore HD skin as an incredibly good skin that people should look to for quality reasons.
While a lot of the skins in there are missing a few new things because of updates that have occurred over the years, I don't think I'd want to throw them out.
geez, I'm only asking
and yea, these firework hitbursts are really something unique. sry for going offtopic
RockRoller
Some people also enjoy old skins. I would simply put every skin in there, no matter if it is a old or new one.
Geroyuni
Where should questions go? Been seeing a lot pop up as new threads while the skinning section's rules kinda imply that it should be going to mlgnom's thread
RockRoller

Geroyuni wrote:

Where should questions go? Been seeing a lot pop up as new threads while the skinning section's rules kinda imply that it should be going to mlgnom's thread

I think they should be posted in the forum. The Post is really chaotic and you need to wait a long time to get an answer, if you ever get one.
deadbeat
Stefan and I cleaned up the pinned threads a bit. Let us know if it's better now, or if you think something else should go.
Stefan

RockRoller wrote:

Geroyuni wrote:

Where should questions go? Been seeing a lot pop up as new threads while the skinning section's rules kinda imply that it should be going to mlgnom's thread
I think they should be posted in the forum. The Post is really chaotic and you need to wait a long time to get an answer, if you ever get one.
Would suggest to have a thread, clearly stated by the title to put your questions there but from experience I know that 50% will keep asking outside of said area so it may not work completely fine.
O2MasterFX

deadbeat wrote:

Stefan and I cleaned up the pinned threads a bit. Let us know if it's better now, or if you think something else should go.
Make the important pinned thread entitled in all caps to let other people read before posting.
Stefan
I don't know if capitalization is "stronger" than a big button saying "New Topic". People tend to click them instead because it's easier for them than reading stuff. One reason because laziness, another because they really have problems to understand it, although the english used in osu! isn't really complicated.
autoteleology
I personally think that there are still three more stickies that can go

How to make spinners symmetrical is a thread that does not need stickied. Is this somehow still an issue in 2017? How hard is it to make a circle and center align it?

Skinnable files list is obsolete. That info is all in the wiki.

How to adjust my skin.ini is also obsolete for the same reason.

It would also be great to have some kind of separation for questions and FAQs, and skins. I think it would be smarter to make the main forum for questions and a subforum for skins, because the people who are asking questions are the ones who are more likely to put their thread the first place they see. I also think that the rules should be made the sole announcement and everything else made a sticky so that that thread is the first thing you see when you come into the forum as it is on top and separated from everything else
O2MasterFX
Well, the wiki has been replaced with the new site so the thread has to be around for some times until the wiki is completed.

And make spinner symmetrical thread should go to FAQ section, like you suggested.
Geroyuni
Here's something. Honestly just throwing ideas at you guys, found this interesting. Text inside that box is just an example.
deadbeat

Philosofikal wrote:

I personally think that there are still three more stickies that can go
How to make spinners symmetrical is a thread that does not need stickied. Is this somehow still an issue in 2017? How hard is it to make a circle and center align it?

You'd think that, but the thread existed, so clearly some people did have trouble with that in the first place.

Philosofikal wrote:

Skinnable files list is obsolete. That info is all in the wiki.
How to adjust my skin.ini is also obsolete for the same reason.
It would also be great to have some kind of separation for questions and FAQs, and skins. I think it would be smarter to make the main forum for questions and a subforum for skins, because the people who are asking questions are the ones who are more likely to put their thread the first place they see. I also think that the rules should be made the sole announcement and everything else made a sticky so that that thread is the first thing you see when you come into the forum as it is on top and separated from everything else

Yeah, I guess adding a link to the both wiki pages for skinning information for the time being would be better suited as that can be more freely updated by anyone. Also I might keep the default skin thread announced as well. In the future it won't matter so much though since on the new forums, stuff is either pinned, or not pinned.
h3oCharles

Philosofikal wrote:

How to make spinners symmetrical is a thread that does not need stickied. Is this somehow still an issue in 2017? How hard is it to make a circle and center align it?
Yes, it still is, especially for newbie skinners.

Speaking of newbies, what about ppl reposting OPs?
RockRoller

Philosofikal wrote:

Skinnable files list is obsolete. That info is all in the wiki.
The list on the wiki isnt as good as the list. The list also features way more informations.

Stefan the english is really easy, but many people can't even understand that little bit english. Maybe translating at least the rules to another languages could be an idea.

And h3oCharles, what are OPs?

Edit: I also really like the idea to seperate completed skins, Skins that are WIP/pending for completet status and question/general talk about skinning.
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