What is talent, and does it exist/matter?

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Rayne

Yuudachi-kun wrote:

And I think a thread about talent is unnecessary because I don't think anyone should focus on the concept of it. If it exists, there's nothing you can do about it but work harder. If it doesn't exist, then just work harder.
Pretty much this.
Noone knows if talent exists or not. There are hundreds of studies about genes vs environmental influences / practice and we will probably never be able to tell exactly if talent exists or not.

Even so, why would you talent to exist that badly? The concept of it promotes lazy attitudes and excuses as I mentioned before.
I guess people find solace in the thought that they did the best they could, which most of the time isn't true, and then will just blame it on talent and be done with it.


Whoever brought up Mozart or other musical artists. Mozart already took lessons in several aspects of music when he was like 5 years old from a professional musician ( his dad ) and probably watched him play for way longer. There's a very strong possibility that this might be the reason for his success and not just some born natural talent.



There's no reason to think about concepts like talent unless you're looking for excuses or solace, a solution why you aren't where you want to be.
And yes, there is something like "efficiently" spending your time learning something, yet you can do something for years in your life and never get really better at it.

Drawing is a prime example. Many people are drawing for several years but are still floating at a level of someone who invested around a year really learning drawing simply because they never bothered to push their knowledge and learn about all the other things that make you better at it.

When you just casually play games, or osu, and you just play casually, have no ->real<- intentions of getting better then you will probably only improve on a small scale. Which is fine. Noone says you have to be good at something to be happy with where you're at, but saying you aren't top100 / pro artist because you lack talent imo is just a wrong thing to do.


I don't doubt people would really like to be good at something, but I do believe that most people really don't like to invest the time.



You'd be better off just forgetting about things like talent because whether it exists or not you can't influence it anyway, yet people are so passionate about its existence. I wonder why that is?
NixXSkate

Rayne wrote:

You'd be better off just forgetting about things like talent because whether it exists or not you can't influence it anyway, yet people are so passionate about its existence. I wonder why that is?
Because of people like you who think players are bad simply because they're lazier than the other person. Because of people like me who practiced streaming for years to go from abysmal level to mediocre, for you to then walk in and suggest that talent doesn't exist is kinda infuriating. You discredit the work of the untalented that don't give up by doing that. You act like I want talent to exist, why the fuck would I want that? I just acknowledge it exists and continue to play anyway.
Roricon

NixXSkate wrote:

Rayne wrote:

You'd be better off just forgetting about things like talent because whether it exists or not you can't influence it anyway, yet people are so passionate about its existence. I wonder why that is?
Because of people like you who think players are bad simply because they're lazier than the other person. Because of people like me who practiced streaming for years to go from abysmal level to mediocre, for you to then walk in and suggest that talent doesn't exist is kinda infuriating. You discredit the work of the untalented that don't give up by doing that. You act like I want talent to exist, why the fuck would I want that? I just acknowledge it exists and continue to play anyway.
^ This, it's just a fact that everyone is different. Improving at a slower rate doesn't mean that person is lazy and/or is practising in a wrong way. Do you really think that everyone who gets music education since 5 years old can become the new mozart or everyone who practices sprinting their entire life can compete with Usain Bolt? Of course you shouldn't let the concept of talent stop you from practising and improving but it's bs to claim it doesn't exist when there are people practising for years or even their entire life that will never reach the very top.
SirOxorsid

ManuelOsuPlayer wrote:

Talent it's there. https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime
The average it's around 215ms. My average after 10 trys it's 470. I have S scores fc at AR10'4 3*.
Got 200 ms avg 1st try, 180ms avg 2nd try. So does this mean i'm guaranteed top 100 within the next year?????







But seriously did you look at the chart that's on the link you posted? The average is 281ms, not 215. Anyways color contrast tests in general are not a good measurement of reaction times for quite a few reasons. In any case it's a pretty poor excuse in regards to osu.
Topic Starter
autoteleology

Yuudachi-kun wrote:

there's nothing anyone can do to affect talent itself.
What if there was? Then, all you would need to do is quantify what the source is to be able to improve "talent".

But, then again, the whole reason this is so debatable is because talent is supposedly unquantifiable in the first place...
Nattsun

SirOxorsid wrote:

ManuelOsuPlayer wrote:

Talent it's there. https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime
The average it's around 215ms. My average after 10 trys it's 470. I have S scores fc at AR10'4 3*.
Got 200 ms avg 1st try, 180ms avg 2nd try. So does this mean i'm guaranteed top 100 within the next year?????







But seriously did you look at the chart that's on the link you posted? The average is 281ms, not 215. Anyways color contrast tests in general are not a good measurement of reaction times for quite a few reasons. In any case it's a pretty poor excuse in regards to osu.
Wtf is with your reaction times lmao... Mine is 250-300. :)
Yuudachi-kun
I got like 300 ms on those things when I played and I could at least play ar 6-10.5 so

No excuses. Also I still hold ar > 10.33 is irrelevant
Talmo
In my opinion, you can have talent in osu! whether you are a 3 digits or a 6 digits.
I think talent depends on your mindset and approach to the game, and the ambition that you have. You also have to like the game in order to make use of the talent you have got. Everyone has talent in at least one thing in life, and it can probably be osu!. Just find out where you're good at and what fits to you, for example if you are good at aim, streams, reading etc. Talent in any special category is something which you discover when you get to know that specific category for the first time. When I started the game and practised streams for the first time, I immediately understood how you had to do it and sympathized with this special category. Just try to find the category that fits you the best and that you learn the easiest, which for me is streaming :)

Yuudachi-kun wrote:

And I think a thread about talent is unnecessary because I don't think anyone should focus on the concept of it. If it exists, there's nothing you can do about it but work harder. If it doesn't exist, then just work harder.
I don't really agree with your statement, for me talent is something you have to figure out for yourself and also take the time for it, so you should focus on it in order to improve faster ! :) Knowing that you have talent in a special side of the game is also a great feeling ! :D
I Give Up

Philosofikal wrote:

I Give Up wrote:

Talent exists regardless of whether or not you believe it. Since we are all not identical clones, our traits and affinities are all different. So naturally you're going to be worse at some things but also better at certain things than most people, that's what we call a talent! And on other news the sky is blue and water is wet.
I suppose a better way to phrase what I'm asking is "Does our natural affinity or disaffinity for something raise or lower the skill ceiling, and not just the rate of skill growth?" Does a person with "talent" simply hit their ceiling quicker? Can hard work fully substitute for natural affinity?
Everyone hits their ceiling at some point, typically at 1-2 year in the game. From then on its about niche training to push that ceiling further. Talented people who put in work will reach their ceiling faster, but will also be able to push their limits further and at a much quicker pace as well. Hard work alone cannot win.
Topic Starter
autoteleology

I Give Up wrote:

Everyone hits their ceiling at some point, typically at 1-2 year in the game. From then on its about niche training to push that ceiling further. Talented people who put in work will reach their ceiling faster, but will also be able to push their limits further and at a much quicker pace as well. Hard work alone cannot win.
I don't think we have the same definition of ceiling.
SirOxorsid
The whole ceiling concept is kind of ridiculous.
Topic Starter
autoteleology

SirOxorsid wrote:

The whole ceiling concept is kind of ridiculous.
So you believe anyone can be the best, then?
SirOxorsid
.
Yuudachi-kun
Reminder OP was active 2 ears ago here and had not played a substantial amount since then


Remember your cod videos
Topic Starter
autoteleology

Yuudachi-kun wrote:

Reminder OP was active 2 ears ago here and had not played a substantial amount since then


Remember your cod videos
What are you even trying to say, other than that you're not too immature to stir up two year old drama? I don't get the purpose of this post.
Yuudachi-kun
You're someone who hasn't bothered putting in the effort over a long period of time yet waste time making threads about this and conjecturing over talent

Look at your fucking sig quote
Topic Starter
autoteleology

Yuudachi-kun wrote:

You're someone who hasn't bothered putting in the effort over a long period of time yet waste time making threads about this and conjecturing over talent

Look at your fucking sig quote
Show me anywhere in this thread where I implied that this question has anything to do with me in particular.

If anything, my responses in this thread should reveal that I DON'T believe in talent, even though I've been trying to maintain the appearance of neutrality for the sake of discussion.
Yuudachi-kun
Show me where ai implied the question implies having anything to do with you specifically
Topic Starter
autoteleology

Yuudachi-kun wrote:

Show me where ai implied the question implies having anything to do with you specifically

Yuudachi-kun wrote:

You're someone who hasn't bothered putting in the effort over a long period of time yet waste time making threads about this and conjecturing over talent

Yuudachi-kun wrote:

Reminder OP was active 2 ears ago here and had not played a substantial amount since then
I didn't have to look very hard. What other motivation would cause these random personal attacks? I mean really now, you're not exactly playing 4D chess here. Feel free to backpedal and cease derailing my thead now that I didn't take your shitty low effort bait.

And for the record, why in the hell would I be posting this thread trying to justify not getting better when I am right in the middle of a period of growth? I'm not anywhere near my ceiling, and I'd be getting better even faster if I wasn't also simultaneously devoting a huge amount of time that I could spend playing into making a super polished skin instead.
I Give Up

Philosofikal wrote:

I Give Up wrote:

I don't think we have the same definition of ceiling.
No one has ever even come close to their final form coz no-one has ever put olympic amount of effort into this game. The "ceiling" that most people are thinking of is the same one I am refering to in my response :)
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