I just don't think its fair to dismiss my explanations as "its my style" when that wasn't the intention.
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YUI - again
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Topic Starter
a lot of Delis' mod makes some good points
In particular:
Regarding the pattern at 00:28:953 (3,1,2) - . It is awkward. The directional flow is not good as well as the overlap which makes it hard to sight read, and when you compare it with the previous pattern you used for THE EXACT same part of the music ( 00:22:096 (3,1,2) - ) this one actually flows in a more comfortable direction. Your reasoning of "to create a slightly awkward flow" is pretty invalid since you aren't consistent with your "slightly awkward flow" for the earlier pattern with the same music/vocals. Why not just give it the same flow as the first pattern? It flows so much better and there's no confusion or awkwardness. Not to mention it doesn't really give negative effects for flowing into the next objects. The pattern you used contradicts with a lot of the directional flow you use in the map, not just the one example I gave
First Pattern vs. Second Pattern
I think there are some more points that Delis made that can be compromised, I want to see this map ranked and I feel like it can be improved and be more consistent for the player
In particular:
Regarding the pattern at 00:28:953 (3,1,2) - . It is awkward. The directional flow is not good as well as the overlap which makes it hard to sight read, and when you compare it with the previous pattern you used for THE EXACT same part of the music ( 00:22:096 (3,1,2) - ) this one actually flows in a more comfortable direction. Your reasoning of "to create a slightly awkward flow" is pretty invalid since you aren't consistent with your "slightly awkward flow" for the earlier pattern with the same music/vocals. Why not just give it the same flow as the first pattern? It flows so much better and there's no confusion or awkwardness. Not to mention it doesn't really give negative effects for flowing into the next objects. The pattern you used contradicts with a lot of the directional flow you use in the map, not just the one example I gave
First Pattern vs. Second Pattern
I think there are some more points that Delis made that can be compromised, I want to see this map ranked and I feel like it can be improved and be more consistent for the player
how a mod can be objective xD there will never be an object mod unless the map itself is quite against the ranking criteria right? I actually wonder if a mod which is somewhat objective exists..
ok my words were bad for you i think, mb again for that. let me just clarify one thing then.
ok my words were bad for you i think, mb again for that. let me just clarify one thing then.
is one of the reply that made me ??? because some of the vocals given no emphasis like 00:54:024 (2) - and so the places where the vocals have been getting no emphasis, ignored in rhythm or not being clickable are really questionable? I was not intended to say this kind of pointless stuff but your reasoning totally made me do it. if the emphasis is focused on the vocals these things are a must right?_83 wrote:
00:54:239 (3,4,5) - uh I have no clue why the (4) is slightly overlapped to the sliderend when the both circles have the same hitsounds, my concern here is the pattern here is something not common, thus I do think this kind of pattern should've done only when the sounds in background are really different, or the hitsounds are. I would like you to place the (4) apart from the sliderend, I would subjectively think it's way more fun to tap it lol. the reason (5) is spacing further away forcing certain movement from (4) is because there is a vocal on (5), similar with (7)
I actually wonder if a mod which is somewhat objective exists..i just worded it poorly
I think when I wrote that if you combine the inconsistent overlaps and inconsistent spacing, it OBJECTIVELY makes the map unintuitive to play.
That's not something I think personally, that's just a fact when you play the song.
That's not something I think personally, that's just a fact when you play the song.
Topic Starter
the thing your picture fails to incorporate is the amount of time spent in each spot. Because of the slider lasting 1/1 beats the player can just hold over the next object and its like a reset to "flow". Both circles lying underneath the repeat arrow of the slider is consistent and the movement from the circle to the next slider is the same in both cases because of the reset.Ora wrote:
a lot of Delis' mod makes some good points
In particular:
Regarding the pattern at 00:28:953 (3,1,2) - . It is awkward. The directional flow is not good as well as the overlap which makes it hard to sight read, and when you compare it with the previous pattern you used for THE EXACT same part of the music ( 00:22:096 (3,1,2) - ) this one actually flows in a more comfortable direction. Your reasoning of "to create a slightly awkward flow" is pretty invalid since you aren't consistent with your "slightly awkward flow" for the earlier pattern with the same music/vocals. Why not just give it the same flow as the first pattern? It flows so much better and there's no confusion or awkwardness. Not to mention it doesn't really give negative effects for flowing into the next objects. The pattern you used contradicts with a lot of the directional flow you use in the map, not just the one example I gave
First Pattern vs. Second Pattern
I think there are some more points that Delis made that can be compromised, I want to see this map ranked and I feel like it can be improved and be more consistent for the player
Topic Starter
I don't see how 00:54:024 (2) - gets no emphasis. For me I see the player having to move from the head of (1) to the head of (2) thus the head of (2) has certain movement to it giving it emphasis. Maybe you can explain more.Delis wrote:
how a mod can be objective xD there will never be an object mod unless the map itself is quite against the ranking criteria right? I actually wonder if a mod which is somewhat objective exists..
ok my words were bad for you i think, mb again for that. let me just clarify one thing then.is one of the reply that made me ??? because some of the vocals given no emphasis like 00:54:024 (2) - and so the places where the vocals have been getting no emphasis, ignored in rhythm or not being clickable are really questionable? I was not intended to say this kind of pointless stuff but your reasoning totally made me do it. if the emphasis is focused on the vocals these things are a must right?_83 wrote:
00:54:239 (3,4,5) - uh I have no clue why the (4) is slightly overlapped to the sliderend when the both circles have the same hitsounds, my concern here is the pattern here is something not common, thus I do think this kind of pattern should've done only when the sounds in background are really different, or the hitsounds are. I would like you to place the (4) apart from the sliderend, I would subjectively think it's way more fun to tap it lol. the reason (5) is spacing further away forcing certain movement from (4) is because there is a vocal on (5), similar with (7)
Topic Starter
I think your statement is incorrect. If you have something to say about the map we can discuss it with examples and reasons. I gave my reasons as to why I think your reasons were invalid. I would like to discuss things in terms these examples because it would prove something to be true (to some degree). All this statement communicates to me is that you think its unintuitive for you to play. Which this can be useful information if I'm sending you maps to play, but that isn't the case here.WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
I think when I wrote that if you combine the inconsistent overlaps and inconsistent spacing, it OBJECTIVELY makes the map unintuitive to play.
That's not something I think personally, that's just a fact when you play the song.
But it's not lol, and I'm not going to argue anymore. The awkward movement is the reverse slider, circle, and slider played all together_83 wrote:
Both circles lying underneath the repeat arrow of the slider is consistent and the movement from the circle to the next slider is the same in both cases because of the reset.
that doesn't explain why 00:54:560 (4,5) - has much larger spacing at all? if 00:53:596 (1,2) - does have a certain movement TO EMPHASIZE the vocal then 00:54:560 (4,5) - the vocal here got obviously over emphasized. https://delisha.s-ul.eu/ujrmvlRQ this kind of pattern will have emphasis which is as certain as 00:53:596 (1,2) - then your explanation would make actual sense, but as for now you are just pushing a random reason to do something special yet uncomfortable for most of players lol.
in before you start talking about how strong the vocals are, I would say there absolutely is not much difference. 00:54:667 - is indeed stronger than the point where much less emphasis given 00:54:024 - but there's too much gap between 00:53:596 (1,2) - and 00:54:239 (3,4,5) - how they are emphasized.
I wish you won't explain this with the words "because my players told its fine" and so lol
in before you start talking about how strong the vocals are, I would say there absolutely is not much difference. 00:54:667 - is indeed stronger than the point where much less emphasis given 00:54:024 - but there's too much gap between 00:53:596 (1,2) - and 00:54:239 (3,4,5) - how they are emphasized.
I wish you won't explain this with the words "because my players told its fine" and so lol
Topic Starter
In your example you linked the movement from (3) to (5) was certain, which you are correct. So maybe I was unclear in what I meant. I want the movement from (4) to (5) to be distinguishable because there is a shared vocal drum hit there. The exact spacing past "not overlapping" is roughly what the previous 1/4 spacing has been for the the kiai spam section.Delis wrote:
that doesn't explain why 00:54:560 (4,5) - has much larger spacing at all? if 00:53:596 (1,2) - does have a certain movement TO EMPHASIZE the vocal then 00:54:560 (4,5) - the vocal here got obviously over emphasized. https://delisha.s-ul.eu/ujrmvlRQ this kind of pattern will have emphasis which is as certain as 00:53:596 (1,2) - then your explanation would make actual sense, but as for now you are just pushing a random reason to do something special yet uncomfortable for most of players lol.
in before you start talking about how strong the vocals are, I would say there absolutely is not much difference. 00:54:667 - is indeed stronger than the point where much less emphasis given 00:54:024 - but there's too much gap between 00:53:596 (1,2) - and 00:54:239 (3,4,5) - how they are emphasized.
I wish you won't explain this with the words "because my players told its fine" and so lol
00:57:881 (1,2,3,4) - not getting why this is stacked i dont think it has such a huge difference to the rest of the vocals to warrant a completely different pattern
Topic Starter
because I think the vocals are weaker and have a more staccato sound to them than other vocalsOkorin wrote:
00:57:881 (1,2,3,4) - not getting why this is stacked i dont think it has such a huge difference to the rest of the vocals to warrant a completely different pattern
Okay I still don't understand why those have different spacing.
00:49:631 (4,5) - and 00:52:953 (2,4) - and 00:56:274 (2,3) - + 00:56:489 (3,4) - I can't understand why you sometimes highlight the vocal pitch and sometimes ignore it but space the lower pitch more .. ?
00:57:881 (1,2,3,4) - I understand because I reckon you want to higlight the "ha-chi-da-chi" because it's feels more staccato like you mentioned.
00:53:167 (3,4) - This though, is not staccato yet stacked this way
00:49:953 (6) - Don't understand why this is not a slider like the rest? If you go by vocals, you should make a slider since the sound clearly goes through the blue tick and you didn't put a note im similiar spots.
01:16:739 (1,2) - 01:03:024 (1,2) - Any reason to why those are so differently spaced?
01:16:524 (3,4,1) - This angle feels very excessive aswell, you didn't do it before and this feels really too much for this part, there is only a drum that is distinguishing itself but it feels like it's not enough and it has not been enough in your mapping to make such an angle.
Why not like this https://puu.sh/xkPYa/271ac6c395.png to resemble what you did before, angle is more comfortable and you get direction change on the drum? This fits much better.
01:18:667 (2,3) - Why this spacing, I think if you want to highlight the sudden vocals it's a bit too drastic.
01:24:453 (1,2) - This has lower spacing but is kinda more intense in the pitch, and you spaced the singletaps the same way so I assume you want to have same spacing, but this is closer to the slider than the vocally less intense part I mentioned above.
At the end -> 00:51:131 (2,3,4,5) - I will not understand this one :/ I would love to see some change because this pattern feels really awkward to play the direction change at 00:51:453 (4) - doesn't matter because of the slider leniency so you get the spacing change and direction change here 00:51:131 (2,3) - because you have to go back up and it feels like it's 1 note too early.
Something I came up with fast fitting your style could be
-> https://puu.sh/xkQdQ/15bad31f14.jpg or https://puu.sh/xkQh4/76ffe60add.png or https://puu.sh/xkQlc/0f89dc1f1d.png
you can adjust some but the spacing on those examples fits it much better and aesthetics fit your map.
But considering the variation in spacing I think you should adjust them a little bit to be of similar spacing in like-sounding parts of the song like those I mentioned at the beginning.
I am willing to accept the inconsistencies I see as "your style" which is clearly present in the entire map and the map itself is fun to play.
I hope you change your mind and actually adress some of the mods that people write including me because it feels like you just swoosh them away without thinking about them that much! I hope I am wrong and I wish you good luck.
00:49:631 (4,5) - and 00:52:953 (2,4) - and 00:56:274 (2,3) - + 00:56:489 (3,4) - I can't understand why you sometimes highlight the vocal pitch and sometimes ignore it but space the lower pitch more .. ?
00:57:881 (1,2,3,4) - I understand because I reckon you want to higlight the "ha-chi-da-chi" because it's feels more staccato like you mentioned.
00:53:167 (3,4) - This though, is not staccato yet stacked this way
00:49:953 (6) - Don't understand why this is not a slider like the rest? If you go by vocals, you should make a slider since the sound clearly goes through the blue tick and you didn't put a note im similiar spots.
01:16:739 (1,2) - 01:03:024 (1,2) - Any reason to why those are so differently spaced?
01:16:524 (3,4,1) - This angle feels very excessive aswell, you didn't do it before and this feels really too much for this part, there is only a drum that is distinguishing itself but it feels like it's not enough and it has not been enough in your mapping to make such an angle.
Why not like this https://puu.sh/xkPYa/271ac6c395.png to resemble what you did before, angle is more comfortable and you get direction change on the drum? This fits much better.
01:18:667 (2,3) - Why this spacing, I think if you want to highlight the sudden vocals it's a bit too drastic.
01:24:453 (1,2) - This has lower spacing but is kinda more intense in the pitch, and you spaced the singletaps the same way so I assume you want to have same spacing, but this is closer to the slider than the vocally less intense part I mentioned above.
At the end -> 00:51:131 (2,3,4,5) - I will not understand this one :/ I would love to see some change because this pattern feels really awkward to play the direction change at 00:51:453 (4) - doesn't matter because of the slider leniency so you get the spacing change and direction change here 00:51:131 (2,3) - because you have to go back up and it feels like it's 1 note too early.
Something I came up with fast fitting your style could be
-> https://puu.sh/xkQdQ/15bad31f14.jpg or https://puu.sh/xkQh4/76ffe60add.png or https://puu.sh/xkQlc/0f89dc1f1d.png
you can adjust some but the spacing on those examples fits it much better and aesthetics fit your map.
But considering the variation in spacing I think you should adjust them a little bit to be of similar spacing in like-sounding parts of the song like those I mentioned at the beginning.
I am willing to accept the inconsistencies I see as "your style" which is clearly present in the entire map and the map itself is fun to play.
I hope you change your mind and actually adress some of the mods that people write including me because it feels like you just swoosh them away without thinking about them that much! I hope I am wrong and I wish you good luck.
Topic Starter
thanks a bunch for the thorough check; I did find some things to fixWORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
Okay I still don't understand why those have different spacing.
00:49:631 (4,5) - and 00:52:953 (2,4) - and 00:56:274 (2,3) - + 00:56:489 (3,4) - I can't understand why you sometimes highlight the vocal pitch and sometimes ignore it but space the lower pitch more .. ? spacings vary here sure, but not by a noticable degree to the player, the first link has spacing change by .1 which was because the slider body is slightly closer and visuals. the 2nd and 3rd links are spacing after slider which is different because of slider leniency, the spacing is just enough to help with angles/setting up for following notes to help them become more rewarding to play
00:57:881 (1,2,3,4) - I understand because I reckon you want to higlight the "ha-chi-da-chi" because it's feels more staccato like you mentioned.
00:53:167 (3,4) - This though, is not staccato yet stacked this way first I noticed the mini section that breaks away from the vocal spam stuff, then what I did was notice (3,4) and (5,6) were different articulations. I thought (5,6) would be nice to highlight since they are stronger but I wanted to overall reduce the difficulty of this combo to help get to the next combo so I made the weaker one a stack.
00:49:953 (6) - Don't understand why this is not a slider like the rest? If you go by vocals, you should make a slider since the sound clearly goes through the blue tick and you didn't put a note im similiar spots. fix
01:16:739 (1,2) - 01:03:024 (1,2) - Any reason to why those are so differently spaced? fix
01:16:524 (3,4,1) - This angle feels very excessive aswell, you didn't do it before and this feels really too much for this part, there is only a drum that is distinguishing itself but it feels like it's not enough and it has not been enough in your mapping to make such an angle.
Why not like this https://puu.sh/xkPYa/271ac6c395.png to resemble what you did before, angle is more comfortable and you get direction change on the drum? This fits much better. I did something to try and fix this without changing the position of the slider like in your example, but I reduced the circle to circle angles
01:18:667 (2,3) - Why this spacing, I think if you want to highlight the sudden vocals it's a bit too drastic. I think spacing is hard to argue when its after a slider because of the slider leniency, but I think 3,4,5 are strong because the are more isolated vocals
01:24:453 (1,2) - This has lower spacing but is kinda more intense in the pitch, and you spaced the singletaps the same way so I assume you want to have same spacing, but this is closer to the slider than the vocally less intense part I mentioned above. again, spacing after a slider is pretty arbitrary because of slider leniency so the amount of emphasis they get is about the same regardless of where its placed unless its stacked under the slider end or the angle is different.
At the end -> 00:51:131 (2,3,4,5) - I will not understand this one :/ I would love to see some change because this pattern feels really awkward to play the direction change at 00:51:453 (4) - doesn't matter because of the slider leniency so you get the spacing change and direction change here 00:51:131 (2,3) - because you have to go back up and it feels like it's 1 note too early.
Something I came up with fast fitting your style could be
-> https://puu.sh/xkQdQ/15bad31f14.jpg or https://puu.sh/xkQh4/76ffe60add.png or https://puu.sh/xkQlc/0f89dc1f1d.png
you can adjust some but the spacing on those examples fits it much better and aesthetics fit your map. after looking at these examples I really don't understand what problem you have with this part lol. all I can tell is you think its uncomfortable to play but I can't say I know why or how to solve it :/
But considering the variation in spacing I think you should adjust them a little bit to be of similar spacing in like-sounding parts of the song like those I mentioned at the beginning.
I am willing to accept the inconsistencies I see as "your style" which is clearly present in the entire map and the map itself is fun to play.
I hope you change your mind and actually adress some of the mods that people write including me because it feels like you just swoosh them away without thinking about them that much! I hope I am wrong and I wish you good luck.
then why you didn't stacked 00:49:310 (1,2,3,4) - ? im pretty sure they're the same musically :S_83 wrote:
because I think the vocals are weaker and have a more staccato sound to them than other vocalsOkorin wrote:
00:57:881 (1,2,3,4) - not getting why this is stacked i dont think it has such a huge difference to the rest of the vocals to warrant a completely different pattern
Topic Starter
those are different vocals entirely wotKalibe wrote:
then why you didn't stacked 00:49:310 (1,2,3,4) - ? im pretty sure they're the same musically :S
according to bor all issues with hitsounding were addressed
as were the discussions with delis and polack
clarified some patterns
rebub
as were the discussions with delis and polack
chat
01:03 _83: a
01:03 Naotoshi: b
01:04 _83: https://bor.s-ul.eu/pGjnYMVL.png
01:05 Naotoshi: o right
01:05 *Naotoshi is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1397316 DJ THT meets Scarlet - Live 2 Dance (Nightcore Mix)]
01:05 _83: 00:00:259 (1) -
01:06 Naotoshi: good snapping
01:06 _83: smh
01:15 _83: so I tried
01:15 _83: for like
01:15 _83: 10 minutes
01:15 _83: nothing I make is good
01:24 Naotoshi: ri
01:24 Naotoshi: p
01:24 Naotoshi: np
01:42 Naotoshi: o
01:42 Naotoshi: pishi sniped doyak
11:37 _83: ?
11:37 _83: pishi sniped doyak?
11:37 Naotoshi: wot
11:37 _83: what you sent a almost 2 am
11:37 Naotoshi: o
11:37 _83: "pishi sniped doyak"
11:37 Naotoshi: cuz
11:37 Naotoshi: doyak was like ya ill look
11:37 Naotoshi: and then pishi came in like
11:37 Naotoshi: no im doing it
11:38 _83: lol
11:39 _83: Please let me keep it.
11:39 _83: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/6217791
11:39 Naotoshi: japanese people.
11:39 _83: tbh
11:39 _83: with the other changes I suggested actually fixed
11:40 _83: the things where "please let me keep it." aren't that bad
11:42 _83: wait a sex
11:42 _83: who is making a set for that OwO
11:42 Naotoshi: regraz
11:42 Naotoshi: uh
11:43 Naotoshi: .
11:43 Naotoshi: i dont think
11:43 Naotoshi: hell accept
11:43 Naotoshi: your map
11:43 Naotoshi: somehow
11:43 _83: lol
11:44 _83: 00:11:440 (1) -
11:44 _83: crowie
11:44 Naotoshi: good slider
11:45 Naotoshi: 00:15:578 (2,3,4,5) - these things r like wtf tho
11:45 _83: lol
11:45 _83: I didn't think much of it
11:46 _83: people do the equivalent of that all the time
11:47 Naotoshi: i prefer hitburst rhythjm
11:47 _83: o
11:47 _83: i meant movement wise
11:49 Naotoshi: o
12:01 _83: when can i steal u
12:01 Naotoshi: huh
12:01 Naotoshi: o rght
12:02 _83: 4 agin
12:02 Naotoshi: ya
12:02 Naotoshi: 2moro or after i get back from lunch
12:02 Naotoshi: but my parents r being nnoying
12:02 Naotoshi: lo
12:02 _83: lol
13:35 _83: anime
13:35 Naotoshi: anime
13:38 _83: i mean my anime tho
13:38 Naotoshi: ya w8
13:38 _83: kk
13:42 Naotoshi: ok
13:45 Naotoshi: 00:58:096 (3,4) -
13:45 *Naotoshi is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1317261 YUI - again [Expert]]
13:45 Naotoshi: shoudlnt this b a slider
13:46 _83: those are syllable
13:46 _83: also oko had me change a couple of things
13:47 _83: 01:10:739 (1,2,3) -
13:47 Naotoshi: yea i saw that
13:47 Naotoshi: 01:24:774 (2,3,4,5,6,1) -
13:47 Naotoshi: and this
13:48 _83: ?
13:48 Naotoshi: uh
13:48 Naotoshi: no wrong link
13:48 Naotoshi: i still dont rly get why 00:57:989 (2) -
13:48 Naotoshi: is stcked
13:48 _83: cuz it sounds special to me
13:49 _83: like tippy toe special
13:49 Naotoshi: wht
13:49 Naotoshi: it sounds the same as every other vocal
13:49 _83: I hear it staccato
13:49 _83: compared to any other vocal
13:50 Naotoshi: can't say i hear anything that calls for that big of a difference
13:50 _83: the articulation of the syllables !!
13:51 Naotoshi: ?__?
13:51 Naotoshi: even if it was different the contrast is spaced streams to a stack
13:52 Naotoshi: which is easier to play
13:52 Naotoshi: if its more staccato shouldnt it be more intense in ssome way
13:52 _83: i know
13:52 _83: not necessarily
13:52 _83: cuz its just different at that point
13:53 Naotoshi: mm
13:53 _83: which is like "how do i change up something to make it different and still emphasize the next sliders properly"
13:53 Naotoshi: why not at least put a circle movement in
13:53 Naotoshi: sso its not just a complete dead stop
13:54 _83: cuz fluid motion isn't cool
13:54 _83: and blurs the other motion I was going for
13:54 Naotoshi: make one of those deppyforce star things
13:55 _83: naw
13:55 _83: that's :(
13:55 _83: the vocals are a little weaker there anyways
13:55 _83: no point in making something cancer like that
13:55 _83: plus it would be hard to fit in with my AESTHETICS
13:55 Naotoshi: mm
13:58 Naotoshi: ok
13:58 Naotoshi: 00:51:131 (2,3) -
13:58 Naotoshi: i actually agree with polack here
13:58 Naotoshi: the direction change going onto 3 seems out of place
13:58 Naotoshi: like the direction change in the opposite way of a slider
13:59 Naotoshi: cuz 4 and 5 are the things that should be highlighted
13:59 _83: 00:50:917 (6) - then this would have same thing
14:00 Naotoshi: hm
14:00 Naotoshi: i guess grouping by vocal phrases it makese sense
14:00 Naotoshi: ok did you fix all the hitsounding issues
14:01 _83: that kalibe and pkhg pointed out?
14:01 Naotoshi: mhm
14:02 _83: yeh
14:02 Naotoshi: ok
clarified some patterns
rebub
again
00:10:203 (1) - isnt this supposed to snapped on 00:10:167 (1) - if you were trying to snap exactly on vocal's voice? current one sounds bit weird
fucking leave it
Topic Starter
that might be more accurate, but this song is based in 1/4 and you saying that is a more accurate snap just says the vocalist made some mistake or something such that the sound is unsnapped.Cellina wrote:
00:10:203 (1) - isnt this supposed to snapped on 00:10:167 (1) - if you were trying to snap exactly on vocal's voice? current one sounds bit weird
why is this still in the map damn it bor
00:10:203 (1,2,3) - This is completely off...
00:22:096 (3,1,2) - ^
00:35:810 (5,6) - Shouldn't this be a 1/4 slider? Sounds really forced as a 1/4 circle, not to mention it's really difficult to read cuz of the overlaps.
01:01:417 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - This plays so poorly cuz of the angles. But even before that, you begin the pattern on the blue tick instead of the red tick. Don't shift to a rhythm that ignores the vocal layer when your map is following the vocals. Begin on the red tick so it's still clear you're following the drums but respecting the fact that vocals begin there. It's how you map to multiple layers. The way you're doing it right now you're ignoring the significance of the vocals.
01:17:381 (3,4,1) - These are really poor angle choices going into the slider.
01:22:096 (2,3,4,5,6,1) - Really poor flow too. You have a lot of rotational movement going here, but then you force players to do a really short up/down movements between 3>4>5 before switching to a another zigzag left/right movement for 5>6>1. It's really uncomfortable to play because you have a poor set up for it.
Aside from that, what is with the overlapping? You know it's hard to read so using them anyways means you probably want to create tight flows or "something" to sacrifice readability, but I can't see any reasoning right now.
[]
In any case if you're mapping to vocals you really need to retime some parts because they are very off.
00:22:096 (3,1,2) - ^
00:35:810 (5,6) - Shouldn't this be a 1/4 slider? Sounds really forced as a 1/4 circle, not to mention it's really difficult to read cuz of the overlaps.
01:01:417 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - This plays so poorly cuz of the angles. But even before that, you begin the pattern on the blue tick instead of the red tick. Don't shift to a rhythm that ignores the vocal layer when your map is following the vocals. Begin on the red tick so it's still clear you're following the drums but respecting the fact that vocals begin there. It's how you map to multiple layers. The way you're doing it right now you're ignoring the significance of the vocals.
01:17:381 (3,4,1) - These are really poor angle choices going into the slider.
01:22:096 (2,3,4,5,6,1) - Really poor flow too. You have a lot of rotational movement going here, but then you force players to do a really short up/down movements between 3>4>5 before switching to a another zigzag left/right movement for 5>6>1. It's really uncomfortable to play because you have a poor set up for it.
Aside from that, what is with the overlapping? You know it's hard to read so using them anyways means you probably want to create tight flows or "something" to sacrifice readability, but I can't see any reasoning right now.
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In any case if you're mapping to vocals you really need to retime some parts because they are very off.
Topic Starter
Monstrata wrote:
00:10:203 (1,2,3) - This is completely off...
00:22:096 (3,1,2) - ^
00:35:810 (5,6) - Shouldn't this be a 1/4 slider? Sounds really forced as a 1/4 circle, not to mention it's really difficult to read cuz of the overlaps. I think keeping up the note density in general is worthwhile, plus the clicking rhythm is the syllables I'm pretty sure. Also I don't think its hard to read since players tend to notice things based on approach circles and since there is an approach circle for both circles the player can see there are more objects to click under the overlap
01:01:417 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - This plays so poorly cuz of the angles. But even before that, you begin the pattern on the blue tick instead of the red tick. Don't shift to a rhythm that ignores the vocal layer when your map is following the vocals. Begin on the red tick so it's still clear you're following the drums but respecting the fact that vocals begin there. It's how you map to multiple layers. The way you're doing it right now you're ignoring the significance of the vocals. I think the angles are ok, I mean the whole kiai spam section emphasizes big hits with sharp angled movement by pointing circle movement 00:48:667 (2,3) - against the prior (1,2) movement, so this stream is just a step above that to emphasize all the big drum hits. Also as for mapping the vocals, all the vocals are still clickable, its just much easier to notice the more dense and high volume notes.
01:17:381 (3,4,1) - These are really poor angle choices going into the slider. this also happens in other locations like 01:15:453 (3,4,5,6,1) - 01:16:524 (3,4,1) - 01:18:239 (3,4,1) - 01:22:096 (2,3,4,5,6,1) - and 01:24:774 (2,3,4,5,6,1) - which are all after the second kiai has begun, as an attempt to introduce 01:24:774 (2,3,4,5,6,1) - to help recognize the patterns emphasis, and increase progressive difficulty(just increase difficulty based on some time to avoid repitition)
01:22:096 (2,3,4,5,6,1) - Really poor flow too. You have a lot of rotational movement going here, but then you force players to do a really short up/down movements between 3>4>5 before switching to a another zigzag left/right movement for 5>6>1. It's really uncomfortable to play because you have a poor set up for it. I feel like this was explained in the prior point.
Aside from that, what is with the overlapping? You know it's hard to read so using them anyways means you probably want to create tight flows or "something" to sacrifice readability, but I can't see any reasoning right now. This is an interesting point, but I don't actually believe that the overlaps increase the reading difficulty in general, I think its more applicable to a group of players I cannot identify with. I like to believe I place notes with an idea in mind for playability, and I think the overlapping just comes with the fact. I would like to mention in a lot of regards I do try to keep the overlaps looking pretty too by making them look similar which is most easily seen in places like 01:05:596 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - . If you would like more reasoning behind different overlaps I will be sure to provide those as reasons as clearly as I can.
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In any case if you're mapping to vocals you really need to retime some parts because they are very off. I agree with the ideas on the timing being off, I didn't quite realize these until you pointed it out, but I know I'm not skilled enough to fix the timing on my own regard
I would like to mention that the song itself is correctly timed, monstrata is just wanting me to accomodate the unsnapped vocals when the other instruments played are timed correctly
i told you_83 wrote:
Monstrata wrote:
In any case if you're mapping to vocals you really need to retime some parts because they are very off. I agree with the ideas on the timing being off, I didn't quite realize these until you pointed it out, but I know I'm not skilled enough to fix the timing on my own regard
I would like to mention that the song itself is correctly timed, monstrata is just wanting me to accomodate the unsnapped vocals when the other instruments played are timed correctly
following vocals is bad, songs can be correctly timed, but vocals can not
this is a rhythm game, rhythm, rhythm, rhythm game
Fushimi Rio
Topic Starter
I'm not entirely sure it would be fair to the player to correctly snap to the vocal sounds with new timing since they are unsnapped from the metronome. How will the player decide to click out of time from the song. I think the difference is small enough there won't be error in playing as is. Either way I could change the timing if there is timing provided and if I thought it would be more fitting to do so but as of right now I'm using the best timing I believe to exist.
Also I think it would be strange to suddenly have the expectation that just because the vocal is mapped then the timing has to be perfectly snapped to those vocals especially when the vocals are unsnapped. I'm sure there are other vocals in this that are similarly unsnapped because vocals are not synthesized. And in that case the timing of this song would become so unreliable. Then in other maps the timing could be much more disastrous just because someone wants to map a non synthesize-able instrument?
anyways please consider these thoughts and concerns
Also I think it would be strange to suddenly have the expectation that just because the vocal is mapped then the timing has to be perfectly snapped to those vocals especially when the vocals are unsnapped. I'm sure there are other vocals in this that are similarly unsnapped because vocals are not synthesized. And in that case the timing of this song would become so unreliable. Then in other maps the timing could be much more disastrous just because someone wants to map a non synthesize-able instrument?
anyways please consider these thoughts and concerns
If you're making an effort to follow the vocal layer, then having sections that are over 50 ms unsnapped to that layer isn't good. Also there are no other instruments playing in the circles I mentioned so you can't say they are snapped to "something else" either. The timing here is very noticeably off. You could actually snap them to the blue ticks and they'd be closer to the actual offset._83 wrote:
I'm not entirely sure it would be fair to the player to correctly snap to the vocal sounds with new timing since they are unsnapped from the metronome. How will the player decide to click out of time from the song. I think the difference is small enough there won't be error in playing as is. Either way I could change the timing if there is timing provided and if I thought it would be more fitting to do so but as of right now I'm using the best timing I believe to exist.
Also I think it would be strange to suddenly have the expectation that just because the vocal is mapped then the timing has to be perfectly snapped to those vocals especially when the vocals are unsnapped. I'm sure there are other vocals in this that are similarly unsnapped because vocals are not synthesized. And in that case the timing of this song would become so unreliable. Then in other maps the timing could be much more disastrous just because someone wants to map a non synthesize-able instrument?
anyways please consider these thoughts and concerns
And yes, the same happens with other maps when people try to map non synthesize-able instruments. If you want to bring in "other maps" there are plenty of maps that required a lot of additional timing or mp3 edits in order to become rankable. Shiro's Tengaku, my supercell maps, Inferno, maps like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/240761 that pishifat ended up editing the mp3 for, etc... Not a good idea to use this argument lol, cuz yea other maps all ended up abiding by this principle when timing was off.
Also taking a closer look there are a few other places that are pretty off too. I really question the accuracy of this timing because of your vocal focus. It's harder for vocals to be 100% in sync with the music, especially with older songs like this. It's why instrumental mapping is better for rhythm games in general. The vocals in the song just happen to be very off.
Definitely requires better timing because of the way you mapped it. Even if you had mapped it to instruments it would probably still need some offset shifts and bpm changes. Ask your old mentor (pishi) to help edit the mp3.
Topic Starter
There isn't much more for me to say, your expectations are to metronome an un-metronomed instrument in a mentronomed song. It just comes off as you trying really hard just to dq this map :/
have you considered what this would mean for things like nightcore? the nightcore mod would be beating out of time with the song just so you can guess to click somewhat out of time.
would this also imply if I don't map those sounds in another difficulty the timing must be different between difficulties or am I required to map one instrument per timing
I'm upsetti
have you considered what this would mean for things like nightcore? the nightcore mod would be beating out of time with the song just so you can guess to click somewhat out of time.
would this also imply if I don't map those sounds in another difficulty the timing must be different between difficulties or am I required to map one instrument per timing
I'm upsetti
Trying really hard to dq the map? Do I seem like someone who bothers to dq or even bubble-pop maps? lol...The notes are completely off... This isn't something that usually happens in songs. Maybe you should instead be arguing why a circle being over 50ms early should still be considered properly timed
Topic Starter
I did consider this, but knowing the problems I've stated with the "corrected" timing makes me quite discouraged to change the timing even if this was dq'd because it wouldn't improve the map in my opinion. I also think it would be unfair to subject unrankability to mapset(s) where difficulties within the mapset(s) in question would differ in rhythmic approach.
Yea, except that all your diff's explicitly map to the vocal aside from *maybe* the Easy but only because of rhythm simplification. You can make that argument if you had GD'ers who mapped to instruments or something, but your whole set is directed towards a vocal emphasis :\_83 wrote:
I did consider this, but knowing the problems I've stated with the "corrected" timing makes me quite discouraged to change the timing even if this was dq'd because it wouldn't improve the map in my opinion. I also think it would be unfair to subject unrankability to mapset(s) where difficulties within the mapset(s) in question would differ in rhythmic approach.
I can't even play this.
Including the 3.96* which should be easy.
Not going to go into details because I know it hurts mappers feelings, but I honestly don't understand how can this be even qualified when its full of overlaps and other unreadable stuff on it.
Including the 3.96* which should be easy.
Not going to go into details because I know it hurts mappers feelings, but I honestly don't understand how can this be even qualified when its full of overlaps and other unreadable stuff on it.
It's not because you're not able to play the map, that the map can't be qualified. And going into details/giving opinions had never hurt mapper's feeling, as long as it's not offensive/aggresive, pointing some stuffs that you don't agree with and start discussion about some points are the main objectives of the qualified section.pingal1ty wrote:
I can't even play this.
Including the 3.96* which should be easy.
Not going to go into details because I know it hurts mappers feelings, but I honestly don't understand how can this be even qualified when its full of overlaps and other unreadable stuff on it.
hello idk why we're only getting to this now but i think you should figure that timing stuff out at the very least
that said please consider the points monstrata made, i think they improve the map
that said please consider the points monstrata made, i think they improve the map
00:10:203 (1,2,3) -
00:22:096 (3,1,2) -
Excuse my laziness. I only looked at the two snaps mentioned by monstrata cause I don't really care about this song. The first one is completely off and not even meant to be snapped to 1/4 (alright, I get this). The second one is off, but is meant to be snapped to 1/4. If the rest are like the second one (which I'm NOT going to check) then it shouldn't need completely new timing points at all. The whole thing can be justified with the phrase: "The best thing to do is time to the percussion ALWAYS. Vocals are so drunk in so many songs it shouldn't even matter if a mapper maps to the snaps of them while following the vocals, cause this shit happens way too often for people to notice anyway." I've found that it's easily justifiable just because of the intention of the vocalist and not necessarily whether or not the vocalist is drunk. There are a lot of examples of maps like this already. hmu for em. I may reevaluate later, but even some of my ranks are examples.
tbh idk if this is relevant, but I felt like inputting for the topic of drunk vocals cause I've dealt with it before lul. I'm off to class bai.
p.s., deLEt whis spam pl0x aaa
00:22:096 (3,1,2) -
Excuse my laziness. I only looked at the two snaps mentioned by monstrata cause I don't really care about this song. The first one is completely off and not even meant to be snapped to 1/4 (alright, I get this). The second one is off, but is meant to be snapped to 1/4. If the rest are like the second one (which I'm NOT going to check) then it shouldn't need completely new timing points at all. The whole thing can be justified with the phrase: "The best thing to do is time to the percussion ALWAYS. Vocals are so drunk in so many songs it shouldn't even matter if a mapper maps to the snaps of them while following the vocals, cause this shit happens way too often for people to notice anyway." I've found that it's easily justifiable just because of the intention of the vocalist and not necessarily whether or not the vocalist is drunk. There are a lot of examples of maps like this already. hmu for em. I may reevaluate later, but even some of my ranks are examples.
tbh idk if this is relevant, but I felt like inputting for the topic of drunk vocals cause I've dealt with it before lul. I'm off to class bai.
p.s., deLEt whis spam pl0x aaa
How confident you are Orz
Im not even confident to push my map, though i have those awesome GDs.
I just.. kek'd
edit. drop envious instead
Im not even confident to push my map, though i have those awesome GDs.
I just.. kek'd
edit. drop envious instead
Topic Starter
I'm not planning on adding timing points to this map any time soon, maybe if what naitoshi was saying was true: I could change it in that regard. I just don't think its worthwhile to add those timing points for the reasons I state in previous points. As for the other comments I didn't really find them to look to improve the map, it just seems like there has to be more in your post or something and you would rather dq the map than help the map improve, please prove me otherwise.
@asuna stop trying to start a drama and advertise your map somewhere else like a modding queue or something.
@asuna stop trying to start a drama and advertise your map somewhere else like a modding queue or something.
I'm 💘 not 🚫 planning on 🔛 adding timing points 💰 to 💦 this 👈 map any 💦 time 🕐 soon, 🔜 maybe 👏 if 👏 what 😦 naitoshi was 👏 saying 🗣 was 👏 true: 💯 I 👁 could 🔒 change 🚼 it 💯 in 👏 that 😐 regard. I 👁 just 👏 don't 🚫 think 💭 its 🙅 worthwhile to 💦 add 😰 those 🐥 timing points 💰 for 🍆 the 👏 reasons I 👁 state 📔 in 👏 previous points. 💰 As 🍑 for 🍆 the 👏 other 👪 comments 💬 I 👁 didn't 🚫 really 😍 find 🔭 them 💦 to 💦 look 👀 to 💦 improve the 👏 map, it 💯 just 👏 seems 👀 like 💖 there 👌 has 👏 to 💦 be 🐝 more 🍗 in 👏 your 👏 post 💦 or 💁 something 😅 and 👏 you 👈 would 👪 rather 👉 dq the 👏 map than 👉 help 💁 the 👏 map improve, please 🙏 prove me 😭 otherwise. 😎