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Hitsound samples have been replaced + minor fix, so good to go again it seems.
Hitsound samples have been replaced + minor fix, so good to go again it seems.
From the day we talked in-game, I was thinking about your concern is a necessary thing to fix, or at least gives some changes in gameplay.Evening wrote:
Emotional Drift
02:28:845 (148845|1,149085|2) - 00:54:765 (54765|1,55005|1) - what's with these svs being 0.8x normalized
00:33:885 (33885|0,34125|0) - and why is this 0.7x
E: Sorry forgot to comment on why they should be fixed:
They look odd and stands out like an error instead of it being mapped to a special sound since literally every other SV is 1.0 normalized, and the sound here doesn't really feel like it justifies the usage
I would comment on the other SVs being not fitting to the instrumentals used but I'll be doing that in 5 days time (weekends) so I'll preferably not obstruct your ranking process if you're keen to rank it
Thanks again for leaving concerns about this map!Protastic101 wrote:
Hello! Apologies about the last day disqualification as we have taken a day or two to mull this over before coming to our decision.
On behalf of the mania QAT, we are taking this map down because it forces patterns and concepts inappropriate for the song's relative difficulty which makes it unrealistically reflect the contents and nature of the song. I do not wish to throw the word "dump" around freely as I believe it tends to be taken as an insult to the mapper(s), but this is what this chart is, and I do not mean it in a rude way.
Previously, we have allowed semi-dumps to be ranked before and they have been widely regarded as some of the best maps mania has currently ranked. This though, goes beyond that, and goes from being challenging gimmicks and unique interpretations of a song through a chart to forced difficulty for the sake of making a hard map out of a relatively tranquil song. We believe it no longer reflects the song properly, and instead is inserting difficulty in awkward places which feels forced and unnatural.
Some examples of this from the top difficulty are as follows:
00:09:165 - to 00:11:085 - While not nearly as hard as other areas of the chart, we believe the majority of these to be ghost notes as they are played over indistinct sounds continuing from 00:08:565 - which are currently unacceptable unless for the sake of preserving flow, which in this case it is not believed to have this effect.
00:21:765 (21765|0,22245|3) - Similarly.
02:04:365 - ^
00:30:285 - As the song is 125 BPM, 1/8 streams and even jumpstreams can be considered fine for short periods of time due to the slow bpm, but we need to keep in mind that this is essentially a 250 BPM 1/4 dense handstream which leaves only 60 ms for players to read and properly hit notes. This alone boosts SR by 0.20* and is an unnecessary spike. A cleaner handstream with 1/4 jumps would be more closely centered to the general difficulty of the chart. A suggestion could be like so https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/11048440
00:34:125 - Accents at consistent intervals for sounds that do not change in volume or emphasis. The first half of each phrase (from 00:36:045 - to 00:37:005 - ) have a much lower note density, whereas the second half of the measure (from 00:37:005 - to 00:37:965 - ) have a large jump in density despite the fact that the song has clearer instruments that are more isolated and lighter in sound. A possible solution to this would be to reduce the chord sizes in the second half of each measure in order to reduce the jump in note density as we do understand that keeping a similar density would make the map truly awkward with the long notes to play.
00:39:885 - 00:49:485 - 00:51:405 - 00:53:325 - and so on. Yes, there have been other maps where we have allowed 1/8 bursts for bass growls, but they were not as smooth or clean as the sounds here. There is such a negligible amount of vibration or change within each of these synths to warrant these bursts that they are notes for non-existent alterations in the music. Especially combined with long notes which already do an excellent job of representing the long sounds and the SVs which accentuate the more hectic nature of this ending section, these notes almost become redundant. A proposed solution would be to use long notes for the 1/8 bursts instead, and use stronger SV stutters to represent the very slight variations in sound.
These are the main reasons why we are taking the map down. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask either me, Feerum, or Asherz007 for help. Most likely, I will be making a larger post later with more specifics of the issues we have so rest assured, these are not the only solutions available to you.
00:30:285 - As the song is 125 BPM, 1/8 streams and even jumpstreams can be considered fine for short periods of time due to the slow bpm, but we need to keep in mind that this is essentially a 250 BPM 1/4 dense handstream which leaves only 60 ms for players to read and properly hit notes. This alone boosts SR by 0.20* and is an unnecessary spike. A cleaner handstream with 1/4 jumps would be more closely centered to the general difficulty of the chart. A suggestion could be like so https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/11048440This is akin to blindly referencing, what's with 125 BPM and 1/8, what's wrong with the numbers and when is it considered fine, where are your references to the other points in the map?
00:34:125 - Accents at consistent intervals for sounds that do not change in volume or emphasis. The first half of each phrase (from 00:36:045 - to 00:37:005 - ) have a much lower note density, whereas the second half of the measure (from 00:37:005 - to 00:37:965 - ) have a large jump in density despite the fact that the song has clearer instruments that are more isolated and lighter in sound. A possible solution to this would be to reduce the chord sizes in the second half of each measure in order to reduce the jump in note density as we do understand that keeping a similar density would make the map truly awkward with the long notes to play.I don't get how is interpreting a song like that inappropriate, it's obvious that the mapper wanted to emphasize on the jacks and not the LNs.
00:39:885 - 00:49:485 - 00:51:405 - 00:53:325 - and so on. Yes, there have been other maps where we have allowed 1/8 bursts for bass growls, but they were not as smooth or clean as the sounds here. There is such a negligible amount of vibration or change within each of these synths to warrant these bursts that they are notes for non-existent alterations in the music. Especially combined with long notes which already do an excellent job of representing the long sounds and the SVs which accentuate the more hectic nature of this ending section, these notes almost become redundant. A proposed solution would be to use long notes for the 1/8 bursts instead, and use stronger SV stutters to represent the very slight variations in sound.This is where it becomes clearly dumping and I'm not going to comment too much on it.
Tofu1222 wrote:
Really hope to see this map back to ranked. I think it's quite fit for ranked section.
Unpredictable wrote:
Tofu1222 wrote:
Really hope to see this map back to ranked. I think it's quite fit for ranked section.
Tofu1222 wrote:
Really hope to see this map back to ranked. I think it's quite fit for ranked section.
riunosk wrote:
emotional drift
00:40:365 - tbh i'd prefer if the stream pattern was continued here (same goes for the others, if any)
Nope. For different emphasis between kiai 1 and 2, as you already know.
01:36:165 - why not add note at col 3 for the sound
I followed pitch with strong sounds that are noticable with 100% speed.
01:36:525 (96525|2) - i think it's better to follow the sound only rather than vocal
It's not for vocal, definitely.
01:44:205 (104205|3,104445|1,104685|1) - i'm not really sure what these are following
Same with above, pitch, but with a bit of hand balance.
02:14:505 - hey you did continue the stream here
yes
yeah this is definitely rank material
some might not think that way, i'm just trying to respect their opinions
thanks for stoping by
Thanks for stopping by.eyes wrote:
Fontes
02:32:205 - 02:24:525 - shouldn't here be some Kick hitsound for snare emphasize? example: 02:28:365 - same for last diff, didn't check others
This was intentional in order to emphasize 02:24:765 - . Also that sound is snare focused, not kick.
I have problem with your priorities. Some 1/8 sounds (let's call them "woobs") are mapped as triple LN and some are mapped as 1/8 rolls, main difference is intense and pitch of woobs. Don't you think it's way too different ways to represent such similar sounds?
I'm pretty sure you can make it more clear and systematic so it doesn't look random.
For example 02:38:925 - and 02:46:605 - are literally the same sounds but mapped differently.
So basically it's like woobs wubs weebs or whatever and the structure is 1/8 streem with stutter -> slowjam LN.
However, that first triple LN is, for emphasis of a new section starting, which is expressed with different SVs.
My suggestion:
When kiai passes, make all long woobs as 1/8 rolls. For example:
02:23:565 - this should be a roll, but 02:25:485 - these are fine as triple LNs because of often pitch changing
02:29:325 - this is also good for roll
etc. I hope you got my point
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SV
I believe 02:13:965 (133965|2,133965|3,134025|0,134085|1,134145|2) - and 02:14:205 (134205|1,134205|0) - are pretty similar (they are kinda two halfs of one sound). But the SV power difference is so big that it makes it look like these are pretty different sound when they are not.
My suggestion:
02:13:965 - nerf this SV to maybe 1.5x>0.5x or something like that so it doesn't stand out so much
Well, they are still different sounds and somehow played okay, so I believe it'll be okay. Also slowjam isn't that weak comparing with stutters.
I checked only second half of the map so you might want to apply it for the first half as well
DDMythical wrote:
change the denser js bursts into one hand trills LOL
Hi dramashionelove wrote:
i was going to put modding about ghost notes here,but it was already discovered by QAT and NOT FIXED.
i don't want to talk about mapping quality because i can't handle this kind of 4k properly but...I have to say ghost notes should be NEVER allowed.
drama incoming?
First, I apologize to you and ddmythical for my misunderstandings of your post, not providing a proper explanation, and being an indirect cause of emotional responses. I thought your post was about other parts. However, I hope you two don't blame me too much since there were no timing points in the first post which could be a hint for me.shionelove wrote:
it's around 00:08,called build up in music theory.snare rhythm is not simple 1/4,so some 2nd note in two-notes-jack are ghost,and others are not. anyway,it depends on community,if QAT says 2+2=5,it's 5.
This is not a good attitude as a person who wants to point out problems of other mapper's map. I cannot be friendly to a person who potentially can cause a drama, or who is willing to cause a drama for the map's disqualification.shionelove wrote:
drama incoming?
Dreamwalker wrote:
If QAT says 2+2=5, it's still 4. QATs have their power, yet they are the same mappers. They can make mistakes, they may have different view and understandings about mapping, and their own rules for ranked section may change. We mappers, individually have rights to deny QATs' suggestion if we think there are proper reasons for keeping our own patterns, although we may be wrong, and that's why we can have diversity in ranked section.