Okorin, why are you so concerned with new players but not new mappers?? I don't understand how you can go on and on about the importance of welcoming newcomers and making it easy for them to get into the game and ignore what the new proposed 8-set does to new mappers:Okorin wrote:
in the long run lowering spread requirements for sets further and further will only prove to be detrimental to especially new players getting into the game, there's a constant supply of new music to be mapped as well as old music to take from so denying someone that is just getting into osu to play their favourite song because you think insanes / extras / hards are more important than complete entry level content is just going to disappoint the new people getting into the game.
This content does become redundant for people as their skill increases but it remains a necessity for getting people to that level - just claiming that entry level content to the game is redundant will just make it harder to get into the game to begin with in the long run. Even if people just browse the recently ranked mapset list without understanding what it actually displays they will just search for songs they like from their favourite new anime opening or pick at random from a list they find somewhere.
By limiting the mapset to 8, you're making it much harder for people like me to get GD slots on ranked sets. For example, let's say a new song comes out and a more experienced mapper picks it up and starts creating a set. Sometimes, these mappers are ok with taking a GD from a newer mapper and helping them to make something rankable out of it. This is super important because not only does it allow newer mappers rejected from the academy (like me!) more opportunities to learn about the ranking process and gain mapping exposure, we also learn a lot about mapping, what's rankable and whats not, and usually being modded for rank is more strict and will likely lead to better feedback.I also don't like that you responded to everyone else and ignored me. I understand that I'm a bad, new mapper but I do think my perspective is one you didn't consider and I think it's just as valid as anyone else's.
However, under this new system, it's even more unlikely that stuff like this will happen. This is already a big headache for the more experienced mapper, as they will have to put lots of time into helping them create something rankable and have to ensure it's up to quality standards. However, with 8 difficulties, mappers are even less likely to do so because sets will fill up, and who wants a new mapper who's gonna be a headache anyway taking up precious slots when all your friends want to make GDs for that hot new song?
Now, I'm not saying that I'm good enough to create a rankable GD (I'm not), and I don't think I expressed myself very eloquently, but this cap will make mapping even more clique-y than it already is.
To respond to MrSergio's statement
So far everything's good imo and all these diffs can stay since they provide needed content (whether for variety or for catering to more players)
The issue I personally have after this point is: what meaning do more diffs have if I consider the previous spread as already "complete"?
I don't have any holes in the spread, plus the additional Extra provides that variety someone may seek, so everything is fine.
From this point onwards I can quite surely say that 2, or even 3, Extra diffs most likely cover already a lot of possibilities you can get from the song, so rarely (and I mean rarely) any other diffs add that much to the game.
Whatever gets added past this point is just not strictly needed for any particular purpose. In fact, it now looks like a way to break the RC and get a standing alone diff into ranked.
By definition you need a whole spread if the song is below 5 minutes and that's because we want to make sure every player can play the map. If I add my GD to an already completed mapset it just becomes a way to go past that rule because I may not have the time to do a whole set or whatever.
The situation may look like this after a few people get interested into the mapset:
ENHIIXXXXX
where green diffs are part of the original set + the GDs filling the holes in my spread and adding variety in the upper diff.
Everything else is a mean to map a song with just a diff without the need to actually make a spread.
what meaning do more diffs have if I consider the previous spread as already "complete"?Let me answer you question with a question, why map an extra at all? Why map any content beyond the first two difficulties? It's not necessary for rank.
Why would you turn down having more ranked quality content for players to enjoy?
Your angle on this is really upsetting. As a mapping community, we don't do things because we have to. We do it because we enjoy creating content. We want to make content for people to enjoy. Turning this down is not only bad for mappers, it hurts the community of players as well.
Whatever gets added past this point is just not strictly needed for any particular purpose. In fact, it now looks like a way to break the RC and get a standing alone diff into ranked.
By definition you need a whole spread if the song is below 5 minutes and that's because we want to make sure every player can play the map. If I add my GD to an already completed mapset it just becomes a way to go past that rule because I may not have the time to do a whole set or whatever.
You guys should prioritize diversity of songs instead of wasting your time on making memes...Would you rather that everyone who wants to map a song make their own set? Most BNs refuse any duplicates currently. If everyone stopped being "lazy", we'd have so many duplicates it would be ridiculous. Or, if it was limited, everyone would rush to speedrank their favorite new songs before everyone else! This would be a massive catastrophe. The purpose of GD's isn't "to get standalone diffs into ranked for lazy mappers", it's to prevent 10 dupes of every new anime song being speedranked against each other.
You can't have it both ways. If you want diversity of songs, then telling people that they have to make a full set every time they want to map a song is contradictory. Mappers want to map their favorite songs. That won't change. Imagine, for example, VINXIS's No Title. There are 6 GD Extras on that map, because all of these are "unnecessary", let's say they stop being "lazy" and all make their own diffs. Now we have 6 dupes all being speedranked against each other!
This is the most short-sighted opinion I have seen on this board yet. I urge you to reconsider.
EDIT: Holy crap this is long