I don't see issue here because if mapper had posted his map on the forums it already belongs to the community in some way. If community loves map and wants to see a leaderboard on specific mapset, mapper is not obliged to actively participate in this process.Ephemeral wrote:
What if the mapper is inactive or has left the game?
This poses a conundrum. What if a mapper does not consent to having their map deemed "complete" enough to have a scoreboard? What if they do not or never intended the map to have one in the first place?
At what point do we assume the mapper's intentions for the map in this process? Is this something we should consider at all?
I have no answers for these questions. It is a complicated topic, and we have deliberately erred away from adding very dated maps from the most part after this issue was raised VERY early on in the community voting for the first round of Loved.
There are maps that I would love to see in the category, but with their creative directors long vanished from the game (Larto is a good example of this), often times with unclear intent for their creations that are left behind, it will likely remain a very difficult issue to resolve fully.
forum
Let's talk about Loved.
posted
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169
When Rezoons Jump training maps then?Ephemeral wrote:
Time to tidy this up, I think.
The general consensus seems to be that the expectation for the category is to unequivocally support maps that are highly appreciated by the community. By large, it appears that most people do not endorse the ability for mappers to contribute a majority share of the SP requirement via their own kudosu (though people from the modding community do support this as it obviously empowers them).
It also appears that there is large support for a return to the community-based voting to determine at least a nominal number of Loved maps to enter the pool.
I think we can address this by implementing the mode-specific scaling SP/favourites requirement as listed in this post while also imposing a hard limit on the amount of SP that can be contributed by any one user - perhaps something to the order of no greater than a third of total contribution towards the base SP cap. We'll also start holding votes for older maps with inactive or uninvolved mappers that have widespread community support, though the number of maps this will introduce per month will be very limited (2-3) to start with.
Alright, I read the whole thread and I'm ready to put my two cents in.
First, we need to clearly define "What is Loved supposed to accomplish" because surely we don't have this whole category to be cute, right?
Some commentary on what others have said in this thread:
First, we need to clearly define "What is Loved supposed to accomplish" because surely we don't have this whole category to be cute, right?
So we define "Loved" as attempting to highlight and immortalize maps that deserve attention or are cult classics, but explicitly do not and will not fit the criteria to be ranked. So, what's the best way to accomplish this task while avoiding pitfalls, explits, and controversy such as:Ephemeral wrote:
Over the years, a common complaint with the ranking cycle has been that it is fairly restricted for most people [...] especially if it tailors to a distinctive audience, or seeks to attempt gameplay paradigms that are not allowed by the current Ranking Criteria.
- The creator of the map can easily manipulate the system to glorify themselves at the expense of the goal of the system.
- Modders have a very controversial extra ability to impact the process.
- Too many maps enter the Loved category too quickly.
- osu!standard gets almost all of the slots because it's got the lions share of players.
- The qualifier has multiple requirements that may not all be met, and are balanced together in a manner that attracts controversy in terms of unfair weighting between requirements.
Some commentary on what others have said in this thread:
Couldn't agree more. That seems to be the case as to why kudosu is involved - because the staff have failed to incentivize modding properly, so the reward for modding is being shoehorned into this system, to the system's explicit detriment and abuse.burntcedar13 wrote:
we're involving sp because it's actually worthless otherwise [...] the loved section is supposed to be about the community (which is mostly players), not mappers.
Do they know more about fun than the community, or do they know more about rules?melloe wrote:
[the modders] make the maps for you to play and they know more about mapping than the community
Why are the people who focus on making something rankable whether it is fun or not getting an undue say on literally the exact opposite type of mapping category?A severe dunking wrote:
Ephemeral wrote:
I'm not sure I can get behind the idea of removing SP qualification from the system entirely - the modding community should have some sort of investment in the system themselves given the work they both undertake to make it a thing in the first place.chainpullz wrote:
The modding community works to make the ranked section a thing. If a map is getting heavily modded it should be getting ranked not loved.
with 100 SP being thrown by the mapper into their own map, its not relevant for now
- We will regularly be adding maps based on community votes.
Is it in effect yet?
Well actually.
I think have a standard on SP is quite a bad idea.Since shooting & earning stars are quite easy.
Nowdays,mappers who have 100+ kds aviliable is very common.So for some reason,it's teribbly easy to push a low-quality map to Loved state.(If they want)
The old voting system is a littke better but still bad.Because it's BN choose the maps which can be voted.There're some BNs' personal tastes.
And now fav effects SP? wtf.
I agree with Monstrata for his Loved-Score system.And I had a new idea called "Loved Switch" to solve the inactive-mappers problem.
Btw,I think the new system Ephemeral will be worse.First,it will make Rank more easily because fav effects SP.And because of the 50SP,send a map to loved state will be easier.
For high-level mappers,they have more than 100 fans.
I think have a standard on SP is quite a bad idea.Since shooting & earning stars are quite easy.
Nowdays,mappers who have 100+ kds aviliable is very common.So for some reason,it's teribbly easy to push a low-quality map to Loved state.(If they want)
The old voting system is a littke better but still bad.Because it's BN choose the maps which can be voted.There're some BNs' personal tastes.
And now fav effects SP? wtf.
I agree with Monstrata for his Loved-Score system.And I had a new idea called "Loved Switch" to solve the inactive-mappers problem.
1.Loved Switch is a switch to control whether this map can be loved or not.It is controlled by mappers.It's default closed when the map is in WIP/Pending while it's default open when the map is Graveyard.Of course,Mappers should be able to open/close the switch if they want.
2.20 Loved points per fav and 5 Loved points per SP.
3.fav can't effect SP.
4.The basic points is 700 and it should be added based upon the diffs mapsets have.
***100 points added per Std diff
***50 points added per Taiko/Mania diff
***20 points added per CtB diff.
For example,if a mapset has 7 Std diffs and 3 CtB diffs,it can't be loved unless it reached (700+7*100+20*3)=1460 Loved points.
5.Loved is updated by machine,not nomiators.(Every 10/15 days)
There must be lots of mistakes in my opinion.Hope it's helpful /w\
2.20 Loved points per fav and 5 Loved points per SP.
3.fav can't effect SP.
4.The basic points is 700 and it should be added based upon the diffs mapsets have.
***100 points added per Std diff
***50 points added per Taiko/Mania diff
***20 points added per CtB diff.
For example,if a mapset has 7 Std diffs and 3 CtB diffs,it can't be loved unless it reached (700+7*100+20*3)=1460 Loved points.
5.Loved is updated by machine,not nomiators.(Every 10/15 days)
There must be lots of mistakes in my opinion.Hope it's helpful /w\
Btw,I think the new system Ephemeral will be worse.First,it will make Rank more easily because fav effects SP.And because of the 50SP,send a map to loved state will be easier.
For high-level mappers,they have more than 100 fans.
What about maps, where mapper is unable to do anything in this matter, for example because he's banned?
There are known and loved by people maps like this one:
JerryC - Canon Rock
Many people really hoped for this mapset to become loved, but then criteria changed and as the maps were being made Loved by staff at the beginning, then now mappers must fill in a form... which simply kills of maps like this one
I still hope that something can happen in this matter and maps like this one can become Loved.
There are known and loved by people maps like this one:
JerryC - Canon Rock
Many people really hoped for this mapset to become loved, but then criteria changed and as the maps were being made Loved by staff at the beginning, then now mappers must fill in a form... which simply kills of maps like this one
I still hope that something can happen in this matter and maps like this one can become Loved.
This sounds like a good idea except mappers can still shoot 100 stars by themselves to get their maps into the Loved (or Approved) category.Ephemeral wrote:
Actually, scratch that. New idea.
Loved as it is currently known, is renamed to Approved. Approved maps follow the SP/favourites criteria outlined earlier - you meet them, you get in. No questions asked.
Every month, a poll is held based on a selection of highly favourited old maps. At the end of the month, those maps are collated and the winning maps (number yet to be decided, perhaps 6-12) are made into a Spotlight complete with ranking chart and are automatically given the Approved status if they do not already have it.
Mappers/modders get their open scoreboard category, community gets their vote-based, curated content section with scoreboards full of maps proven to be liked by at least a reasonable majority of active and engaged people.
Everybody wins.
There should be a limit to how many kudosus a mapper can actually give to an individual map.
Edit: Reason being, Loved maps are a community effort. A mapper can just ask random people to favorite his map and he can shoot 100 stars to the map and go for submission currently, which is not what Loved maps are.
^ Just don't count mapper's own SP into the calculation tbh
Raveille wrote:
This sounds like a good idea except mappers can still shoot 100 stars by themselves to get their maps into the Loved (or Approved) category.
There should be a limit to how many kudosus a mapper can actually give to an individual map.
Edit: Reason being, Loved maps are a community effort. A mapper can just ask random people to favorite his map and he can shoot 100 stars to the map and go for submission currently, which is not what Loved maps are.
It's still easy to evade, if you have two mappers with many stars and similar objectives. They simply can exchange stars, i.e. boost each other's mapset with own stars, giving exactly the same result as if they were to use them for their own maps.Arzenvald wrote:
^ Just don't count mapper's own SP into the calculation tbh
Which means that it won't really affect these mappers, but the people without connections, who can have problem to get the stars in the first place, so they kind of more depend on community and more players (which is good?). With this, they will have it even harder, as they won't be able to use their own stars.
So, I think that doing this wouldn't change much, aside of:
- making even bigger discrepancy between average mapper and the ones, who can throw high number of stars on their maps,
- giving a birth to the Black Stars Market
And my idea is unfair for general.rakuenslove wrote:
most loved maps only have 1 diff tho
what about cosidering drain time?
Loved points = (700+100*Std-diffs+50*Taiko-diffs+50*Mania-diffs+20*CtB-diffs)*(The longest drain time in mapset/180)
:thinking:
The current Loved system hav two key issues.
1. Kudosu does not reflect the whole opinion.
It does not make sense to decide to vote with kudosu in the first place.
becuz kudosu can only be gained by person who did modding, so people who just enjoy playing only
cannot exercise much influence.
cuz the 100 kudosu condition is main requirement, this system is their own league; who do mapping or modding.
2. With Kudosu, multiple voting is possible.
Do you think it makes sense that when one chooses a member of the parliament, one person exercises several votes?
This is a serious problem that contradicts the purpose of 'Loved'.
First of all, we need to make sure the concept of 'Loved' clear.
I agree with CXu's opinion to some extent. 'Loved' is a completely different category from 'Rank',It is a map that has been steadily loved by people.
This is a way of gathering a large number of purely subjective opinions rather than objective ones, it has nothing to do with quality and playability,
cuz this is not rank category. that was the first way of Loved.
But before the voting system changed, actually the Loved maps are good in quality and popularity.
The favorite number and quality of the old loved maps and the current red votes disprove it.
By the way, The reason people say when they make a map like 'aim for Rank' or 'aim for Loved',
Becuz Rank and Loved map has promotional effect.
How would ordinary players find maps on OSU homepage?
They will search their favorite songs or look at the front page of the main category. It is typically Loved and Rank.
Most mappers will want to show off their map to others. it is natural,
But as a player,personally I don want to see the maps just made with short term in loved besides, I hate it if it's a map that people do not love.
Anyway to sum up, the way the map is chosen, not the problem of the map itself, is completely wrong.
If you want to continue the current way, Osu hav to make one more category like'Under Rank.'
similiar with Major and Minor league in sports.
Certainly, this does not fit the name 'Loved'.
so, Remedy of present Loved in my opinion,
first, Kudosu must be removed from the map selection criteria to fairly reflect the views of everyone.
and I think it is better to raise the Favorite upper limit to at least 100.
And with this, first questionnaire type is ideal.
Above all, current Loved does not have a manager to supervise the selection of the map unlike the Rank like BN and QAT.
So more than one manager is essential i think.
I hope the current Loved status will be better, and a hidden masterpiece that many people love wil come as legend.
Nonetheless, the current system is so far from being clear about the concept.
1. Kudosu does not reflect the whole opinion.
It does not make sense to decide to vote with kudosu in the first place.
becuz kudosu can only be gained by person who did modding, so people who just enjoy playing only
cannot exercise much influence.
cuz the 100 kudosu condition is main requirement, this system is their own league; who do mapping or modding.
2. With Kudosu, multiple voting is possible.
Do you think it makes sense that when one chooses a member of the parliament, one person exercises several votes?
This is a serious problem that contradicts the purpose of 'Loved'.
First of all, we need to make sure the concept of 'Loved' clear.
I agree with CXu's opinion to some extent. 'Loved' is a completely different category from 'Rank',It is a map that has been steadily loved by people.
This is a way of gathering a large number of purely subjective opinions rather than objective ones, it has nothing to do with quality and playability,
cuz this is not rank category. that was the first way of Loved.
But before the voting system changed, actually the Loved maps are good in quality and popularity.
The favorite number and quality of the old loved maps and the current red votes disprove it.
Becuz Rank and Loved map has promotional effect.
How would ordinary players find maps on OSU homepage?
They will search their favorite songs or look at the front page of the main category. It is typically Loved and Rank.
Most mappers will want to show off their map to others. it is natural,
But as a player,
Anyway to sum up, the way the map is chosen, not the problem of the map itself, is completely wrong.
If you want to continue the current way, Osu hav to make one more category like'Under Rank.'
similiar with Major and Minor league in sports.
Certainly, this does not fit the name 'Loved'.
so, Remedy of present Loved in my opinion,
first, Kudosu must be removed from the map selection criteria to fairly reflect the views of everyone.
and I think it is better to raise the Favorite upper limit to at least 100.
And with this, first questionnaire type is ideal.
Above all, current Loved does not have a manager to supervise the selection of the map unlike the Rank like BN and QAT.
So more than one manager is essential i think.
I hope the current Loved status will be better, and a hidden masterpiece that many people love wil come as legend.
Nonetheless, the current system is so far from being clear about the concept.
w..what...
Ryzen_old_1
just my thoughts...
-voting by favorites might be good idea (since if using kudosu that just only who have been modding can do that)
-about SP, 50 is fairly enough
-maybe 100+ fav will take the criteria
-and SV map? playable only plz...
please don't blame me if i got wrong XD
-voting by favorites might be good idea (since if using kudosu that just only who have been modding can do that)
-about SP, 50 is fairly enough
-maybe 100+ fav will take the criteria
-and SV map? playable only plz...
please don't blame me if i got wrong XD
WTF?
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/344371
THIS MAP LITERALLY DOES NOT HAVE ANY SP, AND IS LOVED !!!
NEVER EXCEEDS THE 100 FAVS
WHAT THE HELL YOU SET RULES IF YOU BREAK THEIRS?
THIS SIMPLY WILL GENERATE MORE CONFUSION THAT THERE IS ALREADY COMPLICATED THAT IS FOR YOUR MAP TO ENTER ANY CATEGORY OF RANKING
I JUST DON´T UNDERSTAND IT
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/344371
THIS MAP LITERALLY DOES NOT HAVE ANY SP, AND IS LOVED !!!
NEVER EXCEEDS THE 100 FAVS
WHAT THE HELL YOU SET RULES IF YOU BREAK THEIRS?
THIS SIMPLY WILL GENERATE MORE CONFUSION THAT THERE IS ALREADY COMPLICATED THAT IS FOR YOUR MAP TO ENTER ANY CATEGORY OF RANKING
I JUST DON´T UNDERSTAND IT
Don't caps. Moreover, look at the time it got Loved, during the old system, that's why it got ranked. Now stop yelling please.Miutrex wrote:
WTF?
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/344371
THIS MAP LITERALLY DOES NOT HAVE ANY SP, AND IS LOVED !!!
NEVER EXCEEDS THE 100 FAVS
WHAT THE HELL YOU SET RULES IF YOU BREAK THEIRS?
THIS SIMPLY WILL GENERATE MORE CONFUSION THAT THERE IS ALREADY COMPLICATED THAT IS FOR YOUR MAP TO ENTER ANY CATEGORY OF RANKING
I JUST DON´T UNDERSTAND IT
You're right, you don't.Miutrex wrote:
I JUST DON´T UNDERSTAND IT
How about introducing user rating system on pending or graveyard maps?
Loved points : The number of raters * (Average of User Rating - 8) * ( 1 + StarPriority*0.05)
Required points for Loved : 350 + 10 * The number of difficulties
WIP maps should be excepted. User rating should be reset when a pending or graveyard map changes to WIP map.
Result
Both many raters and high ratings will be required.
A map under 8 User Rating won't be loved map.
Graveyard maps can also be loved maps.
the advantage of star priority is kept.
Loved points : The number of raters * (Average of User Rating - 8) * ( 1 + StarPriority*0.05)
Required points for Loved : 350 + 10 * The number of difficulties
WIP maps should be excepted. User rating should be reset when a pending or graveyard map changes to WIP map.
Result
Both many raters and high ratings will be required.
A map under 8 User Rating won't be loved map.
Graveyard maps can also be loved maps.
the advantage of star priority is kept.
I could agree with this, since user rating system hasn't been in its upmost uses after all, but there's only one thing.CircusGalop wrote:
How about introducing user rating system on pending or graveyard maps?
Loved points : The number of raters * (Average of User Rating - 8) * ( 1 + StarPriority*0.05)
Required points for Loved : 350 + 10 * The number of difficulties
WIP maps should be excepted. User rating should be reset when a pending or graveyard map changes to WIP map.
Result
Both many raters and high ratings will be required.
A map under 8 User Rating won't be loved map.
Graveyard maps can also be loved maps.
the advantage of star priority is kept.
Since what I see is that the user rating system is highly subjective, the beatmapper and the players can easily give 10/10 on each of the said category map. Which is pretty unfortunate, that rating system won't give out their honest rating as you might think it is - since it is easily dominated by the propaganda of the given map..... and that could be very risky.
Also agreed to the previous suggestions which are to limit giving SP, because it's already done by someone to purposely making the map "Loved" without any given lookout and further ignored mods. Shooting your hard-earned 100 stars right off the bat is just straight up dumb, I hate to say that. Keeping high favourites are great as well.
I realized that the additional conditions are needed like this.
Required raters : at least 100
How long keep those conditions : at least 2 weeks after last update
I thought as follows.
If many raters vote, manipulation of average User Rating will be difficult.
The number of favorites is dominated by popularity, but it does not reflect how many people are dissatisfied with this map.
If the average rating is not enough to make something a loved map, the mapper can try to improve rating by changing to WIP and improving the map.
Of course, user ratings might not reflect the map quality. But, this allows us to filter out the maps which a lot of people don't like and to give feedback to the mapper in a different way. I would like to hear more opinions about this.
Required raters : at least 100
How long keep those conditions : at least 2 weeks after last update
I thought as follows.
If many raters vote, manipulation of average User Rating will be difficult.
The number of favorites is dominated by popularity, but it does not reflect how many people are dissatisfied with this map.
If the average rating is not enough to make something a loved map, the mapper can try to improve rating by changing to WIP and improving the map.
Of course, user ratings might not reflect the map quality. But, this allows us to filter out the maps which a lot of people don't like and to give feedback to the mapper in a different way. I would like to hear more opinions about this.
Akali's (submitted by Sugoi-_-Desu) Knife Party - Centipede is the perfect example against this
DDMythical
Every map that meets their respective gamemodes' kudosu/favourite mark should be put into a pool. Then the community votes on X (10%) of these maps to be loved every month or so. The maps that don't make it have to get 30% higher kudosu/favourites to be able to enter the pool next month.
For hybrid sets; just account the most popular gamemode. For example if a set has 4 mania diffs and 1 standard diff. it will require the standard's limit of kudosu/favourites.
This stops people from putting 100 kds and getting randoms to favourite their map and then getting it loved no questions asked. The community then has to agree that the map is good. the 30% increase each time (100, 130, 169) will stop mappers from repeatedly putting a mapset into the pool when nobody wants leaderboards on it.
however long this mapset has been around for is irrelevant.
For hybrid sets; just account the most popular gamemode. For example if a set has 4 mania diffs and 1 standard diff. it will require the standard's limit of kudosu/favourites.
This stops people from putting 100 kds and getting randoms to favourite their map and then getting it loved no questions asked. The community then has to agree that the map is good. the 30% increase each time (100, 130, 169) will stop mappers from repeatedly putting a mapset into the pool when nobody wants leaderboards on it.
however long this mapset has been around for is irrelevant.
I think "loved" is not the place where you should add maps regularly. Maps that community truly love is not something that you can add every month by votes I think.. It's just a popularity contest, who made more interesting map with unranked patterns, weird spacing etc. Loved should be something more "holy" (?)
Maps that had great impact on community over YEARS, not week/month. Maps like that old nightcore jump practice that everyone played, https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48738 (oh man this is genius). You can actually see though download count (not in every case but still) in current loved section what is truly loved, everything below 100k should be just removed. I think there should be at least 1-2 year in graveyard/pending to qualify for loved.. It doesn't matter if map gets attention for month or two, if it's forgotten over year it just means it doesn't really have to be in loved. And why loved should be something that is not flexible. What about some voting what should not be in loved? It's not like players lose pp from removing maps. Who needs many maps in loved anyway, true "loved" map is not something that appears every day/week. To sum up, there should be at least two ways to get loved. Using community votes for really old maps and download count for new ones.
Maps that had great impact on community over YEARS, not week/month. Maps like that old nightcore jump practice that everyone played, https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48738 (oh man this is genius). You can actually see though download count (not in every case but still) in current loved section what is truly loved, everything below 100k should be just removed. I think there should be at least 1-2 year in graveyard/pending to qualify for loved.. It doesn't matter if map gets attention for month or two, if it's forgotten over year it just means it doesn't really have to be in loved. And why loved should be something that is not flexible. What about some voting what should not be in loved? It's not like players lose pp from removing maps. Who needs many maps in loved anyway, true "loved" map is not something that appears every day/week. To sum up, there should be at least two ways to get loved. Using community votes for really old maps and download count for new ones.
a lot of people don't play loved map cause it doesn't give pp and that's why there is not much maps that got 100k plays .Reazen wrote:
everything below 100k should be just removed.
also because a lot of maps have high SR so not everyone can play it
end loved plz i need more pp
Then how these high SR maps still have more dl count ?? That's what loved is about ppl plays these maps even if it does not give them pp.Pachiru wrote:
a lot of people don't play loved map cause it doesn't give pp and that's why there is not much maps that got 100k plays .Reazen wrote:
everything below 100k should be just removed.
also because a lot of maps have high SR so not everyone can play it
Yo !
I didn't really read each post of this thread, and i think i'm not the only person who asked for this.
Is/will it be possible to have a mapset which is going for Ranked section, but in this mapset there's only a diff which goes for Loved section, because the diff itself is technically unrankable ? (all tag4 maps that were ranked before are now in Loved section, but the other diffs are in Ranked section)
I can give you an example if you don't see what i mean.
"I'm planning to make a full mapset on a song in standard mode, and i want to add a TAG4 diff but not as external diff. It is part of the mapset but the scores on it don't give pp, so it is for loved section"
I didn't really read each post of this thread, and i think i'm not the only person who asked for this.
Is/will it be possible to have a mapset which is going for Ranked section, but in this mapset there's only a diff which goes for Loved section, because the diff itself is technically unrankable ? (all tag4 maps that were ranked before are now in Loved section, but the other diffs are in Ranked section)
I can give you an example if you don't see what i mean.
"I'm planning to make a full mapset on a song in standard mode, and i want to add a TAG4 diff but not as external diff. It is part of the mapset but the scores on it don't give pp, so it is for loved section"
Is loved status supposed to be way harder than ranked?
Getting 100 favorites on a 7K map seems very hard when about 90% of players only play 4K.
Why have the same requirement for all modes when the size of player base is drastically different.
The requirement for favorite should be x% of total player base for that key mode.
Example: There are 100,000 players for 4K, set requirement to 0.1% you need 100 favorites.
There are 10,000 players for 7K, you need 10 favorites.
There are 10 million players for STD, you need 10 000 favorites.
Where as the requirement for kudosu would be based on active modders.
Example: There are 10000 mappers for 4K, set requirement to 10% = 100 kudosu.
Favorite is more of a limited resource than kudosu since you are capped at 50 per account and you get banned for multi accounts. Considering this, the requirement for favorite should be lower than kudosu requirement.
Only map that break ranking rules can be loved is a fair requirement.
I think the intention of having "Loved" is just a backdoor for pending maps to get attention, not actually meant to represent what the community loves, is that right?
There would be no need for loved if the ranking system was only based on # of mod + # of plays
Getting 100 favorites on a 7K map seems very hard when about 90% of players only play 4K.
Why have the same requirement for all modes when the size of player base is drastically different.
The requirement for favorite should be x% of total player base for that key mode.
Example: There are 100,000 players for 4K, set requirement to 0.1% you need 100 favorites.
There are 10,000 players for 7K, you need 10 favorites.
There are 10 million players for STD, you need 10 000 favorites.
Where as the requirement for kudosu would be based on active modders.
Example: There are 10000 mappers for 4K, set requirement to 10% = 100 kudosu.
Favorite is more of a limited resource than kudosu since you are capped at 50 per account and you get banned for multi accounts. Considering this, the requirement for favorite should be lower than kudosu requirement.
Only map that break ranking rules can be loved is a fair requirement.
I think the intention of having "Loved" is just a backdoor for pending maps to get attention, not actually meant to represent what the community loves, is that right?
There would be no need for loved if the ranking system was only based on # of mod + # of plays
Loved section should stay with the same requirements (100 kudos, 15 favs (or maybe more favs idk)) but let the community vote. As DDMythical said, there should be a pool of selected maps with 2 or 3 maps in the end.
Play count/Download should not be involved. Unknown mappers (mappers that never ranked anything like me/non famous mappers) will get less downloads and plays because the players won't be following the mapper's new maps, so it's a bad idea to involve these stats in loved.
Play count/Download should not be involved. Unknown mappers (mappers that never ranked anything like me/non famous mappers) will get less downloads and plays because the players won't be following the mapper's new maps, so it's a bad idea to involve these stats in loved.
I agree with that idea.FruityEnLoops wrote:
Loved section should stay with the same requirements (100 kudos, 15 favs (or maybe more favs idk)) but let the community vote. As DDMythical said, there should be a pool of selected maps with 2 or 3 maps in the end.
Play count/Download should not be involved. Unknown mappers (mappers that never ranked anything like me/non famous mappers) will get less downloads and plays because the players won't be following the mapper's new maps, so it's a bad idea to involve these stats in loved.
i think its absurd how were talking about a category centered around literally unranked popularity ( lets be honest thats what loved means. high critical acclaim.....but mostly popularity thats unranked ) and no one before this guy mentioned user rating where you LITERALLY RATE THE MAP as having any relevance towards anything. this thread is just people projecting their opinions of either i want the kudoso power or how no one should have the kudoso power. i think a combination of favorites and user rating with a small amount of influence. ( key word SMALL ) being given towards the kudoso thing is probably a alright system. i mean factoring in user rating to some degree doesnt seem like a bad idea, though we'd never see something like ikenai borderline get loved again it might also stifle out the completely generic shit or all the jump spam that half the community actually active in this game hates.CircusGalop wrote:
How about introducing user rating system on pending or graveyard maps?
Loved points : The number of raters * (Average of User Rating - 8) * ( 1 + StarPriority*0.05)
Required points for Loved : 350 + 10 * The number of difficulties
WIP maps should be excepted. User rating should be reset when a pending or graveyard map changes to WIP map.
Result
Both many raters and high ratings will be required.
A map under 8 User Rating won't be loved map.
Graveyard maps can also be loved maps.
the advantage of star priority is kept.
the way i see it theres no way in hell were gonna get a "loved" system that pleases everyone. but is it even supposed to? i thought it was for unranked maps that have enough reception and popularity around them to warrant a leader board. its not the systems fault in that case if most of the community just has shitty taste
also +1 to loved maps being maps that are at least 6months-1 year old.
How about switch it up? 100 favs and 30 sp? Instead of 100 sp and 30 favs.
I actually suggested both options since 100favs+30sp is primaly for the actual famous maps that are truly loved, while 100sp+30favs are for the mapper who urgently want their map to have a leaderboard. *shrugs*PotatoJet wrote:
How about switch it up? 100 favs and 30 sp? Instead of 100 sp and 30 favs.
Of course my opinion on this is highly biased, but I think the requirements were fine how they were. Quite a few people including me have already accumulated 100SP on their maps and met the criteria. To reduce the kudosu requirement is to make all that effort a waste. Loved should be an alternative to the ranking criteria, or it should be split into another category. One for maps truly loved by the community, and another category for those who put the time and effort into getting the kudosu and favorites.
hmm... still looking for a way out of this all
i'm here to summarize what I've read (some posts I forget omg: o)
forgive me for my rough language in English
i'm here to summarize what I've read (some posts I forget omg: o)
forgive me for my rough language in English
- Loved Beatmap is a beatmap beloved by people, chosen for its own reasons (forgot) by everyone.
- Loved Beatmap is treated as a side-ranking category, when for various reasons perfectly rankable maps go for loved instead.
- Loved Beatmap shouldn't just be an alternative Ranked status. Loved isn't supposed to be a mapping goal, it should just be a place for (unrankable) maps loved by the community to get a scoreboard. That is more like the mapper being narcissistic towards their own map.
- Loved Beatmap (still edit and find some argument to solve)
while i do not agree that "making all the effort a waste" is a valid argument to keep this current loved system, I think to tackle your problem a solution is that only mapsets which are uploaded after the new loved system took place will need to adhere to the loved requirements. this is similar to how updating the ranking criteria works if im correcttatatat wrote:
Of course my opinion on this is highly biased, but I think the requirements were fine how they were. Quite a few people including me have already accumulated 100SP on their maps and met the criteria. To reduce the kudosu requirement is to make all that effort a waste. Loved should be an alternative to the ranking criteria, or it should be split into another category. One for maps truly loved by the community, and another category for those who put the time and effort into getting the kudosu and favorites.
___________________________
my opinion:
+ i think 100fav 30SP would be better cuz at last the osu player community is the dominant one, meaning having SR > fav doesn really reflect the fact that a map is widely loved (+ the fact that 90% players are not mappers nor modders, and therefore probably dont have kudosu to shoot at any maps)
and i think there should be a limit for the amount of stars one can shoot (sorry if its already mentioned i only skimmed over the 10 pages very briefly, like 5 stars per person, this is simply to prevent abuse of this 100fav 30sp requirement