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KOAN Sound & Asa - Tetsuo's Redemption

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Firinael
Hey I'm not a modder or anything like that, just a guy that liked the map and song a lot. Just thought I'd give my 2 cents on some stuff that could make the map a bit nicer.

Anyways, I have only 2 suggestions:
  1. 04:27:551 (3,4,5,6,1,2) - Increasing the spacing in patterns like this would make it way more clear that this is a slower stream and that it is different from the kind of pattern at 04:29:265 (1,1,1,1).
  2. Also: making sliders larger and maybe using CS2,5 or something like that to emphasize the speed difference of the sliders.
That's all, overall I found the map to be very very fun and would love to see how it turns out when you're done with it. Best of luck to you (and sorry if I messed up and/or my post is useless).
Topic Starter
Jakomo73

Firinael wrote:

Hey I'm not a modder or anything like that, just a guy that liked the map and song a lot. Just thought I'd give my 2 cents on some stuff that could make the map a bit nicer.

Anyways, I have only 2 suggestions:
  1. 04:27:551 (3,4,5,6,1,2) - Increasing the spacing in patterns like this would make it way more clear that this is a slower stream and that it is different from the kind of pattern at 04:29:265 (1,1,1,1). This section is already on the verge of being too difficult for the intensity of the music. If i raised the spacing on this, i would need to do it for the other similar patterns. Since this is a pretty common pattern it would raise the difficulty a lot. I also have a lot of 1/4 stacks, so I can't really have the 1/6 be really small spacing. Right now I think the spacing for 1/6 is as close to readable in this section as it's going to get. Along with that, having the NC spam should help a lot in terms of read-ability
  2. Also: making sliders larger and maybe using CS2,5 or something like that to emphasize the speed difference of the sliders. I think a lower cs would emphasize the speed differences less, cause you would have a lot more leniency
That's all, overall I found the map to be very very fun and would love to see how it turns out when you're done with it. Best of luck to you (and sorry if I messed up and/or my post is useless).
Thanks for the kind words and feedback <3
Sorry that I didn't take any of your suggestions, but I've thought a lot about most of the patterns and spacings in this map, and think right now a lot of them are at the best compromise to everything. I still really appreciate the input though!
Hollow Delta
m4m from my queue

Psionics

01:31:837 (1) - I think you should slightly adjust this overlap to make it look nicer. Maybe more towards the top-left side, as a perfect overlap doesn't have the same feel.

01:40:033 - The volume here should be decreased to 20 because the little drum-roll effect it gives doesn't fit the long sound in the song.

02:16:837 - I think having the chorus on here is distracting because it makes the circles light up, while none of them are on the beat, so they'd flash at the wrong time. Even if, it doesn't feel like it fits because it seems like the chorus has ended.

05:30:872 - The beatmap will cut to the scoreboard here, so I feel it'd be awkward to have this dominant sound in the background while the scoreboard pops up. I think a spinner should be placed here so when the map cuts it's where the sound ends as well.

gl

mod this pls
Topic Starter
Jakomo73

Bubblun wrote:

m4m from my queue

Psionics

01:31:837 (1) - I think you should slightly adjust this overlap to make it look nicer. Maybe more towards the top-left side, as a perfect overlap doesn't have the same feel. Done

01:40:033 - The volume here should be decreased to 20 because the little drum-roll effect it gives doesn't fit the long sound in the song. Lowered by 10%

02:16:837 - I think having the chorus on here is distracting because it makes the circles light up, while none of them are on the beat, so they'd flash at the wrong time. Even if, it doesn't feel like it fits because it seems like the chorus has ended. fixed

05:30:872 - The beatmap will cut to the scoreboard here, so I feel it'd be awkward to have this dominant sound in the background while the scoreboard pops up. I think a spinner should be placed here so when the map cuts it's where the sound ends as well. Although that sound's dominant, I don't think a spinner really fits (i tried it and just feels like a needless extension)

gl

mod this pls
Thanks for the mod!
Nuolong
inb4 bn mod
squirrelpascals
you got a call back and then like 5 ppl modded it lol
i guess ill give my two cents on this

sonics
• 00:46:408 (4,5) - the rhythm that you click 5 on is super quiet, a ctrl+g here would be very nice

• 00:49:944 (4,5) - same kinda thing, the noes under this are rly quiet

• 01:04:408 (1,2,3) - would recommend ncs here to show the weird rhythm, like you do later in the map with 1/6 streams

• 01:11:694 (5,1) - the way this stream goes opposite of the flow from 5 to 1 is a little of a pain to play, try usingctrl+j on 1

• 01:14:051 (1) - imo you should curve this more lightly to better fit in with the curve of 01:13:730 (6) -

• 01:14:587 (2,1) - feel like you should lessen the overlap here, 1 is pretty hidden behind the slidertail of 2

• 01:35:158 - why is this note unmapped? ignoring it just makes it feel like there's something missing there

• 02:23:051 (1,1) - same idea as 01:14:051 (1) -, a more similar slidercurve here would make this feel more structured

• 02:28:837 (1) - i disagree with the intense slider sv here, with this speed you're saying that the sound under this is stronger than the one at 02:28:087 (1) - , which doesn't sound right ido

• 03:27:980 (3) - adjust this sliderhead to overlap the sliderbody less, while this isnt a burial slider its pretty close to one and doesn't look that attractive imo picture

• 03:45:337 (1,2) - why the kickslider here also? feels overdone again, and you don't do this for many of your triple rhythms (03:53:265 (2,3,4) - 03:38:908 (2,3,4) - )

• 04:00:122 (1,2,1) - this would feel more comfortable like this because it better utilizes slider leniency

• 04:21:015 - 04:21:015 - ignored notes at both of these, i also think it would be better for this jump 04:21:122 (1,1) - to happen ON the white tick at 04:21:122 - because of the strong snare. change your rhythm around here and find a way to undermap it less, i came up with a suggestion that i think is really close to what you wanted to do here: boop same for 04:48:551 (1,1,2) -

• 04:24:551 (1) - it feels like this is mapped to the snare since its on the white tick which doesn't feel right for a buzzslider. Try filling in the white tick with something else and starting that at 04:24:765 - even though it seems rly late it's more accurate to the bass sound

• 04:35:158 - again with the unmapped note

• 04:48:551 (1,1,2,1) - would recommend using more accurate time-distance equality for your spacing here, these notes are all spaced the same with different timeline gaps and feels choppy to play

really neat map, this improved a LOT between when you put it in my queue and now.
maybe if you fix most of these and probation system gets implemented soon i can qual :)
Topic Starter
Jakomo73

squirrelpascals wrote:

you got a call back and then like 5 ppl modded it lol lol sheela kinda popped in unexpected while I was waiting for other mods, so decided might as well get those first to try and improve the map a bit more :D
i guess ill give my two cents on this

sonics
• 00:46:408 (4,5) - the rhythm that you click 5 on is super quiet, a ctrl+g here would be very nice I'm trying to show the difference between 00:44:694 (6,7,8) - and this. Although 00:44:908 (7) - is fairly quiet compared to the sound on it's slider tail, I think having spacing emphasis on 00:45:122 (8) - is really important (and having it be a triple doesn't feel right, and increases reading difficulty too much for this section imo). Then, when 8 isn't part of the combo, it's mapped the same way but with a kind of stop motion instead of large spacing to emphasize the lack of that beat.
I moved down 00:47:051 (1,2,1,2,3) - to be consistent with my theme thing as well (it felt like a stop motion already, but wasn't enough)

• 00:49:944 (4,5) - same kinda thing, the noes under this are rly quiet fixed by making 00:49:837 (3,4,5) - repeat slider, and 00:42:980 (2,3,4) - to be consistent with rhythm expression.

• 01:04:408 (1,2,3) - would recommend ncs here to show the weird rhythm, like you do later in the map with 1/6 streams Yeah, i made then non NC'd cause it was within "normal" ticks, but its weird enough to warrant it

• 01:11:694 (5,1) - the way this stream goes opposite of the flow from 5 to 1 is a little of a pain to play, try usingctrl+j on 1 done

• 01:14:051 (1) - imo you should curve this more lightly to better fit in with the curve of 01:13:730 (6) - 6 is a kinda buzzing noise while 1 is whooshing, so I think they deserve different slider shapes, and the juxtaposition between their curves just further shows that

• 01:14:587 (2,1) - feel like you should lessen the overlap here, 1 is pretty hidden behind the slidertail of 2 changed 1's angle to make it more visible

• 01:35:158 - why is this note unmapped? ignoring it just makes it feel like there's something missing there Yeah, you're right, added. I can't believe i skipped over that LOL

• 02:23:051 (1,1) - same idea as 01:14:051 (1) -, a more similar slidercurve here would make this feel more structured Same reasoning as above, although this one isn't as big of a wooshing sound, so I might reconsider

• 02:28:837 (1) - i disagree with the intense slider sv here, with this speed you're saying that the sound under this is stronger than the one at 02:28:087 (1) - , which doesn't sound right ido Why not make them both super fast :^) upped sv on the second thing u linked. However, for this pattern it's kind of a build-up imo, so even if the sound is stronger than another, the overall build-up of the section kind of trumps that I think, to try and get consistently faster. 02:28:408 (1) - is kinda slow since the sound patterning changes at this point, along with the rhythm. However, it still applies the same general "this is the build-up section, get faster!!!" idea. Along with that, due to the fastness of the second section compared to the first (in terms of being 1/2 instead of 3/4)
I feel the quickness of those 1/4 sliders really fits the music


• 03:27:980 (3) - adjust this sliderhead to overlap the sliderbody less, while this isnt a burial slider its pretty close to one and doesn't look that attractive imo picture Sure

• 03:45:337 (1,2) - why the kickslider here also? feels overdone again, and you don't do this for many of your triple rhythms (03:53:265 (2,3,4) - 03:38:908 (2,3,4) - ) Telephone noises here, its the same as 02:55:622 (1,2,3) -

• 04:00:122 (1,2,1) - this would feel more comfortable like this because it better utilizes slider leniency Hmm, that goes against the flow I'm going for. I see what you're saying, but with such a low bpm as well, I don't think it will be a huge deal anyway, it helps emphasize 04:00:551 (1) - since u have to hold it slightly longer

• 04:21:015 - 04:21:015 - ignored notes at both of these, i also think it would be better for this jump 04:21:122 (1,1) - to happen ON the white tick at 04:21:122 - because of the strong snare. change your rhythm around here and find a way to undermap it less, i came up with a suggestion that i think is really close to what you wanted to do here: boop same for 04:48:551 (1,1,2) - OOO that fits really well, changed changed changed. It was spaced like that since originally it was a double, but I noticed lack of other note and it kinda lost the original meaning or the jump. (also I think u meant to link 04:20:372 - instead of the same time twice, lmk if I was wrong about that)

• 04:24:551 (1) - it feels like this is mapped to the snare since its on the white tick which doesn't feel right for a buzzslider. Try filling in the white tick with something else and starting that at 04:24:765 - even though it seems rly late it's more accurate to the bass sound I hear the bass sound starting more on the blue tick, so put it there

• 04:35:158 - again with the unmapped note AGAIN WITH THE FIX B)

• 04:48:551 (1,1,2,1) - would recommend using more accurate time-distance equality for your spacing here, these notes are all spaced the same with different timeline gaps and feels choppy to play Aaaand fixed

really neat map, this improved a LOT between when you put it in my queue and now.
maybe if you fix most of these and probation system gets implemented soon maybe i can qual :)
ayy, thanks for the mod :D



Nuolong wrote:

inb4 bn mod
7 seconds, holy
josh1024
Just passing by.

Cool!
Topic Starter
Jakomo73

josh1024 wrote:

Just passing by.

Cool!
Thanks for the kind words and the star <3
Saika0k1
hi m4m from your queue

General

OD is the extreme for 4* at least 8.5 is ok
this map is pretty damn easy to pass because of many NCs+HP6 so i think raising HP a bit is fine

Psionics

01:02:158 (2,1) - close up the spacing a bit i think, this could make an unnecessary 100 on the slider end
01:12:765 (1,2,1) - should be equaly spaced
01:14:480 (1,2,1) - ^
01:23:265 (1,1) - i fuckin love this
01:35:265 (1,2,3,4,1) - this should have lower spacing than 01:35:908 (1,2,3,4,1) -
02:28:087 (1) - this goes on for too long
03:12:980 - from this point to 04:07:837 - the song is quite repitetive and some part looks almost like you have copy pasted it, repeats too much and the map will get boring as you play so i think you could represent the other part of the song in another way yet dont feel diffrent (hard task but i would enjoy the map even more than i already do)
04:07:837 - same here until 04:59:265 -
Best of luck! (i would like to this get ranked so i will shoot a star ;))
Topic Starter
Jakomo73

Saika- wrote:

hi m4m from your queue

General

OD is the extreme for 4* at least 8.5 is ok This isnt really a 4* map, and with the rhythmic density, it can lead to some unwanted notelock/misses if it's lower
this map is pretty damn easy to pass because of many NCs+HP6 so i think raising HP a bit is fine Sure, raised to 7

Psionics

01:02:158 (2,1) - close up the spacing a bit i think, this could make an unnecessary 100 on the slider end Intentional, player has to hold for longer and further emphasizes the drum beat with quick movement
01:12:765 (1,2,1) - should be equaly spaced Whoops, think i messed it up when fiddling with that pattern. Fixed
01:14:480 (1,2,1) - ^ yep
01:23:265 (1,1) - i fuckin love this thanks <3<3
01:35:265 (1,2,3,4,1) - this should have lower spacing than 01:35:908 (1,2,3,4,1) - It already does have slightly higher spacing, and I the wider path makes it more difficult than the pattern before, so I think it would be too difficult for the intensity if the difficulty was increased
02:28:087 (1) - this goes on for too long Oh huh, timing point got reset from 2.5x to 2x somehow
03:12:980 - from this point to 04:07:837 - the song is quite repitetive and some part looks almost like you have copy pasted it, repeats too much and the map will get boring as you play so i think you could represent the other part of the song in another way yet dont feel diffrent (hard task but i would enjoy the map even more than i already do)
04:07:837 - same here until 04:59:265 - Changing the patterning around for each section wouldn't really fit the music imo. I already change around the patterns for increased intensity, despite the rhythms being pretty similar
Best of luck! (i would like to this get ranked so i will shoot a star ;)) U guys shouldn't shoot stars, they're just wasted after 12 sp unfortunately :(( but I really appreciate the sentiment <3
Thanks for the mod and support!
sheela
  1. there's a fade in effect in files soft-hitfinish2 and soft-hitfinish7 at the beginning, so here's an updated file you can use for both: https://puu.sh/xvTzs/db8f218d40.wav
  2. 01:04:730 (1,1) - i think it's best to keep the spacing small to not fool the players with the sudden jump since the gap is much smaller than 01:04:408 (1,1) - while these have a small distance in-between. i would say x:260 y:140 is a good placement.
ook poke me back again
Topic Starter
Jakomo73

sheela wrote:

  1. there's a fade in effect in files soft-hitfinish2 and soft-hitfinish7 at the beginning, so here's an updated file you can use for both: https://puu.sh/xvTzs/db8f218d40.wav
  2. 01:04:730 (1,1) - i think it's best to keep the spacing small to not fool the players with the sudden jump since the gap is much smaller than 01:04:408 (1,1) - while these have a small distance in-between. i would say x:260 y:140 is a good placement.
ook poke me back again
ok both fixed, thanks
spaced the second one a bit closer since it is a 1/4 gap instead of 3/8 gap
sheela
fixed a slider's end snapping so this map is coolio
Mir
what the fuck jako ranking maps hold up fam
Topic Starter
Jakomo73

sheela wrote:

fixed a slider's end snapping so this map is coolio
Thanks for all the help <3<3

Mir wrote:

what the fuck jako ranking maps hold up fam
ye ive gone past my edgy phase of 5x svs and quitting every map :^)
Mir
i would have preferred 5x sv since it would have fit more with the kiai section

that aside:
This is a bit questionable, like mainly here:
I think it's a little too ambiguous so I'll just pop this for now so you can fix it (or if you have arguments against you can bring them forward for discussion). You can get sheela to rebubble after it's adjusted. The reason being you can't exactly tell if you should be going up first or down first. Something like this would be clearer:
Topic Starter
Jakomo73
sure, isn't that important to the slider and might help players read it (although I do think the slider path before would've shown the player where to go. Better to be safe than sorry)

Also I like the way the kiai is expressed rn D: 5x sv was really cancer to play when I had it (think i sent it to you at some point in the beginning lol)
Mir
SPOILER
05:33 Jakomo73: hey did u have any problems besides that slider?
05:33 Mir: nah it was just that
05:33 Jakomo73: ok, thanks ^^
05:33 Mir: not bad for a first map tho i think you could been a bit more idk
05:33 Mir: force more movement in the second part
05:33 Mir: felt a little lacking in that department but the first part was pretty nice
05:34 Jakomo73: by second part do you mean second part of the chorus?
05:34 Mir: nah like after the really long slider-art part
05:34 Mir: the really repetitive part
05:34 Jakomo73: ahh
05:34 Mir: the part is already pretty repetitive so making something interesting out of it would mask that repetitiveness
05:34 Mir: but atm you have a pretty basic part there
05:36 Jakomo73: hmm, im not too sure what i couldve done to combat too much
05:36 Mir: well for one raise the sv
05:36 Jakomo73: interpretting rhythms with different objects prob would be a good start tho
05:36 Mir: i don't think the song calls for such a low sv at all there, it's a fairly fluid section
05:36 Mir: i mean it's pretty subjective tho lol
05:36 Mir: mm lets look
05:37 Jakomo73: to me that section is more of a technical rhythm section instead of an aim section
05:37 Jakomo73: although streams of 5 and triples isnt very technical tbf
05:37 Mir: tbf
05:37 Mir: 03:16:408 (1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5) -
05:37 Mir: this isn't technical at all LOL
05:38 Jakomo73: that parts just coming out of the super slow section tho, I think having it be pretty calm kinda fits
05:39 Jakomo73: doubles are very technical tho :^)
05:40 Mir: not at this bpm
05:40 Mir: also i would have used https://i.imgur.com/HytH8rI.png personally
05:40 Mir: from 03:16:408 -
05:40 Mir: just so it's not so empty
05:40 Mir: cuz atm it feels like the song is going but i'm barely moving
05:41 Mir: then 03:37:515 (1,1) - is pretty out of the blue
05:41 Mir: in such a calm part
05:41 Mir: (the nc doesn't help)
05:42 Mir: i like 04:07:837 - this part a lot more than the part before it tbh
05:42 Mir: 04:33:551 (1,2,1,2,1) - but this is so underwhelmingggg
05:44 Mir: idk about you but i feel like https://i.imgur.com/cqTWk1b.png fits more for 04:33:551 -
05:44 Mir: since you have the hihats in the back too that you were previously mapping with streams like 04:23:265 (1,2,3,4,5) - etc
05:45 Mir: idk just some things to take into consideration is all
05:45 Mir: it's really up to you in the end it's not enough to make me pop the map cuz it's not what i interpret the song as
05:46 Jakomo73: yeah i dont really agree with the calm part, but I think ill make those changes to the second thing you linked
05:46 Jakomo73: cause that sounds and plays a ton better than just 3/4 jumps
05:47 Jakomo73: i will try to change some of the repetative parts tho to accentuate the differences in rhythm as well
05:48 Mir: i like how
05:48 Mir: you SORT of had the idea with 04:47:480 (2,3,1,2,3,4) -
05:48 Mir: just making 1/4 sliders to fit the hihats would have been perfect imo
05:50 Jakomo73: yeah i completely agree with that, ill have to add 1/4 sliders to those jump parts
05:50 Mir: dammit now i feel like mapping this song at some point
05:50 Mir: but i already have 9 pending slots aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
05:50 Mir: good luck with this btw
05:50 Jakomo73: its a really good song
05:50 Jakomo73: thanks, i appreciate the help <3
05:51 Mir: o//
05:51 Jakomo73: do u mind if i post logs in the thread? just kinda for "says rebubble is fine" as well?
05:52 Mir: lemme do it so i can milk some free kds out of this

Jako wants to make some more changes so he asked me to put the log here.

I'm not vetoing or anything so you can rebubble it whenever.

Good luck!
Topic Starter
Jakomo73
OK, the only significant changes are:
04:19:837 - to 04:21:551 -
04:33:551 - to 04:34:944 -
04:47:265 - to 04:48:872 -
05:00:980 - to 05:02:265 -
sheela
Mir made a good point on the slider, so i approve the changes

rebub
Nuolong
yas sheela now bubble my map thanksx <3 ,#3,3,3, 3, 3, 3, #, 3,<< 3< 3 i quit osu
squirrelpascals
Gamer!! :D

small consistency fix to the last significant change jack mentioned
Topic Starter
Jakomo73
thanks pascals and sheela for pushing it forward and thank you for all the help and support everyone <3<3
Nuolong
woo!! NICE!!
Kaitjuh
05:14:801 (2) - isnt it more accurate if it were mapped on 05:14:765 - ? (1/6)

other than that the map has a wonderfully well thought out design, never thought i'd like a KOAN Sound map, good job!
Topic Starter
Jakomo73

Kaitjuh wrote:

05:14:801 (2) - isnt it more accurate if it were mapped on 05:14:765 - ? (1/6)

other than that the map has a wonderfully well thought out design, never thought i'd like a KOAN Sound map, good job!
oh god, you're right. hopefully it's small enough that it can be direct qual'd (don't wanna bother sheela AGAIN lol)

thanks for the kind words though <3
JBHyperion
DQ requested to fix an incorrectly snapped slider

Sorry to spoil the hopes and dreams but since this is a gameplay-affecting element, this won't be possible to instantly re-qualify. I'm sure your previous Nominators won't have a problem going over it one more time (fingers crossed)

Good luck!
sheela

JBHyperion wrote:

DQ requested to fix an incorrectly snapped slider
not really a slider but ok

re-bubbled!
JBHyperion
details, details...
Topic Starter
Jakomo73

sheela wrote:

JBHyperion wrote:

DQ requested to fix an incorrectly snapped slider
not really a slider but ok

re-bubbled!
Thanks :D lets hope this map never has to be opened again lol
-Tochi
ey nice
can't wait for it to be ranked!
squirrelpascals
wub wub wub wub
Nuolong
woo!! NICE!! (again)
Crypthesis
congratz! :D
Saika0k1
congratz
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