xfraczynho wrote:

IamKwaN wrote:

can someone confirm this by sending the composer a mail? XD

Proof:
Is it enough I guess?

Arrival wrote:

dropping this here, i don't understand your rhythm choices in inner oni's kiais, the last one most of all; their structure doesn't reflect the music at all to me and it just seems random.

what i'd suggest as a basic core structure could be this 01:57:669 -

this would reflect way more efficiently the song than what you actually have which is mapped... quite randomly

then you can play around it by improvising stuff like this

this is just an exemple on how you could make the kiai more interesting, as of now you're not playing with the don/kat contrasts enough and it gives a somewhat messy results where you just dont feel like playing the song...

my two cents

xfraczynho wrote:

Pattern usage is according on that base (most about variety on them). [/b]

xfraczynho wrote:

from 01:57:669 - at 50% pr you can get 01:57:669 (760) - 01:57:969 (764) - 01:58:269 (766) - 01:58:569 (770) - notes which I locked as kat cause they follows kick really well

MrSergio wrote:

xfraczynho wrote:

Pattern usage is according on that base (most about variety on them). [/b]

I believe that's Arrival's point here. The variation of your base is what makes it hard to play, or rather unpredictable and seemingly unstructured.
If you change the main reference the player has how can it be considered "structured" ? D:
That's what I meant; current base I'm using on 01:56:469 - is d k k k / d d k k. That's all the variation on these sections starts then from here 01:57:069 - kxxxk is what I'm locking for as you can notice on every sections so should not be that hard for players to follow middle variations

xfraczynho wrote:

from 01:57:669 - at 50% pr you can get 01:57:669 (760) - 01:57:969 (764) - 01:58:269 (766) - 01:58:569 (770) - notes which I locked as kat cause they follows kick really well

Ye, but then you stop doing so with 01:58:869 (773) - and start alternating between the two with 02:00:069 (784) - 02:00:369 (788) - 02:00:669 (790) - 02:00:969 (794) -
As I pointed above; I'm making variations between d k k k and d d k k as base (you can look at them on my mod replies before) every 8/1 sections on Kiais so triple usage on frirst three notes (second and 4th 8/1 on Kiai's) emphatises the drum shake and helps at variation. You can look at my Ozzy and Stefan reply on this since I used these notes alone on a first instance but then I noticed this feels and fills really better (also help at not making this feel that empty)

Imo you should really give a second or third chance to Arrival's post. Maybe I'm not experienced enough to play this sort of stuff, but it does feel stranger than a lot of maps which are even harder than this in star rating
I'm not trying to be mindclosed on this way; I tried his suggestion and I can agree in someway with this, but I still think current state is better talking about this kind of songs; not trying to make a hard map, just making something that really fills great according to song


Also, let me add some things I found myself, which may or may not make sense to you:
01:56:469 (749,750,751,752,753,754) - this first passage that starts the kiai is what I find to be the most fitting way to represent this rhythm.
That rhythm gets repeats a lot during the kiai, since it's like the intro to each variation the composer added in this part:
- 01:58:869 (773,774,775,776,777,778) - doesn't work
- 02:01:269 (797,798,799,800,801,802) - works
- 02:03:669 (821,822,823,824,825,826) - doesn't work
- 02:06:069 (845,846,847,848,849,850) - works
Yeah I got your point; same as I pointed above, look at my reply on Ozzy/Stefan mod. Both pointed your way and it feels really more fun at playing (and accurate imo). Both points you're saying are fine but they can be better for Oni diff maybe

This keeps alternating, and it was probably meant for variation.
You can also say that since the whole rhythm is repeated but slightly changed by the composer you can do this, but I believe you should keep the first part of the repeated pattern as is and vary the second half of it where the rhythm indeed changes
Yeah, it's repetitive but this doesn't mean making repetitive patterns (maybe more notes similar is enough), also drum makes some little variations on it so I think it's currently nice. As I pointed; not trying to be mindclosed at your suggestions; but I'm leaving at it is :') thanks for your feedbacks anyways :3

• [General]

1. 02:21:069 - unused timing point. You can simply remove it.

• [Muzukashii]

1. From 00:07:269 to 01:18:069 - the pattern chain lasts for 71 seconds without any 2/1 breaks, which could be demanding for intermediate players compared to the availability of rests in Futsuu.
2. 00:39:969 (163) - delete and move 00:40:119 (164) - to 00:40:269 - . This is in fact a good spot for a longer rest after the dense kiai especially when Futsuu has a 4/1 break here.
3. 00:41:019 (166) - you may move this note to 00:41:169 - , move 00:41:469 (167) - to 00:41:319 - and change to k for the background instrumental pitch.
4. 00:42:369 (170,171) - these notes could be swapped as k d for flow as well as variation.
5. 00:44:769 (181,182) - same suggestion as 00:39:969 (163) - for another 2/1 rest moment.
6. 00:45:819 (184) - similar to 00:41:019 (166) - , you may move the note to 00:45:969 - and change to k, then move 00:46:269 (185) - to 00:46:119 -

• [Inner Oni]
  
  I could somehow understand your rationale behind by reading the discussion above, but you can still reconsider the overall pattern usage in this difficulty. In addition, there is room for improvement regarding the overall flow in the kiai sessions.

1. 00:23:319 (126) - consider changing this note to d to make the flow less rigid ? The previous similar segment is comprised of kat-intensive patterns around 00:20:919 - , so d could accompany the rhythm change (also known as additional synths in the background) in a way better.
2. 00:28:119 (173) - same as ^
3. 00:29:319 (185) - k here would fit the snare well.
4. 00:30:444 (196) and 00:37:644 (260) - look randomly placed as the rest similar spots are all mapped as k. Try to form a sequence or change them to k for consistency. For example, you can swap 00:30:444 (196,200) and 00:37:644 (260,264) - to k d to achieve the said purpose.
5. 01:59:319 (777) - 02:04:119 (825) - 02:08:919 (873) and 02:13:719 (921) - same as 00:23:319 (126) -
6. 02:14:469 (928,929,930,931,932,933,934,935,936,937,938,939,940) - maybe try k ddkdkkd ddkkd instead of kkddk d dkddkkd ? The flow would be smoother and more natural towards the end.

Raiden wrote:

3/2 breaks are more than sufficient at this level of difficulty. 2/1 breaks are way too Futsuu-ish

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

Disqualified as there exists consecutive mapping in Muzukashii apart from the pattern arrangement concerns raised as above.
There we go

• [General]

1. 02:21:069 - unused timing point. You can simply remove it.

Right, also changed 02:20:469 - to 5%

• [Muzukashii]

1. From 00:07:269 to 01:18:069 - the pattern chain lasts for 71 seconds without any 2/1 breaks, which could be demanding for intermediate players compared to the availability of rests in Futsuu.
   I agree with above comments about enough 2/1 usage. I can get Futsuu got lot of 2/1 breaks but this difficulty (I could point this at watching scoreboard according to players pp / rank) should be good considering the action is pretty much until 01:18:069 - . If I make many more 2/1 breaks this will turn a little undermapped so could be really close to Futsuu diff. Gotta make an equilibrium between them :')
2. 00:39:969 (163) - delete and move 00:40:119 (164) - to 00:40:269 - . This is in fact a good spot for a longer rest after the dense kiai especially when Futsuu has a 4/1 break here.
   Well! I think this sounds really good; even it's contradictory with my above explanation, it can help if it's going to be really neccesary (and I like breaks after Kiai so seems senseful).
3. 00:41:019 (166) - you may move this note to 00:41:169 - , move 00:41:469 (167) - to 00:41:319 - and change to k for the background instrumental pitch.
   I think the drum it's clearly audible and makes sense if I make d d to follow it. If I follow your suggestion is gonna create a basic 1/1 pattern usage that makes it feel like K-F diff
4. 00:42:369 (170,171) - these notes could be swapped as k d for flow as well as variation.
   I think following instrumental sound here is more important so d k is better about following ascendant melody
5. 00:44:769 (181,182) - same suggestion as 00:39:969 (163) - for another 2/1 rest moment.
   Well I think I'm gonna just use this cause consistency (considering my first comment)
6. 00:45:819 (184) - similar to 00:41:019 (166) - , you may move the note to 00:45:969 - and change to k, then move 00:46:269 (185) - to 00:46:119 -

Same comment about current d d usage :')

• [Inner Oni]
  
  I could somehow understand your rationale behind by reading the discussion above, but you can still reconsider the overall pattern usage in this difficulty. In addition, there is room for improvement regarding the overall flow in the kiai sessions.

1. 00:23:319 (126) - consider changing this note to d to make the flow less rigid ? The previous similar segment is comprised of kat-intensive patterns around 00:20:919 - , so d could accompany the rhythm change (also known as additional synths in the background) in a way better.
2. 00:28:119 (173) - same as ^
   Well I think I'm gonna hold the current d k k k / d d k k usage in every 8/1 sections on first half of Kiai. I can really get your points about rigid stuff, but I think they're pretty neccesary since clearest sound is the instrumental sound that it's totally ascendant (so if I make don after some kat it's gonna turn senseless)
3. 00:29:319 (185) - k here would fit the snare well.
   I think current snare-follow is good at kat usaging, I don't get any sound that needs change; 00:29:169 (184,185) - k d usage is accurate imo
4. 00:30:444 (196) and 00:37:644 (260) - look randomly placed as the rest similar spots are all mapped as k. Try to form a sequence or change them to k for consistency. For example, you can swap 00:30:444 (196,200) and 00:37:644 (260,264) - to k d to achieve the said purpose.
   It's mostly about variation; as I pointed several times I'm locking current dkkk ddkk usage so variations between them are acceptable and followable. Anyways I think making this 00:38:094 (264) - don could help (instead ctrl+g'ing) your second suggestion. kdk pattern at 00:37:569 - fills really good imo :')
5. 01:59:319 (777) - 02:04:119 (825) - 02:08:919 (873) and 02:13:719 (921) - same as 00:23:319 (126) -
   Same comment :')
6. 02:14:469 (928,929,930,931,932,933,934,935,936,937,938,939,940) - maybe try k ddkdkkd ddkkd instead of kkddk d dkddkkd ? The flow would be smoother and more natural towards the end.
   I changed it to ddkdk dkddkkd cause I feel this feels a little overmapped (and not accurate) by following your suggestion (02:14:919 - note here)

You may call me back after that.

• [General]

1. Seeing that you altered the last timing point's volume, I would suggest volume changes for the last spinner as follows for a more uniform decrease:
   02:16:869 - 55%
   02:18:069 - 40%
   02:19:269 - 25%
   02:20:469 - 10%

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

A quick recheck here. (no kd)

• [General]

1. Seeing that you altered the last timing point's volume, I would suggest volume changes for the last spinner as follows for a more uniform decrease:
   02:16:869 - 55%
   02:18:069 - 40%
   02:19:269 - 25%
   02:20:469 - 10%

The overall structure of Inner Oni is more noticeable at least upon the change, so I am fine with that.

Nifty wrote:

I have some concerns after playing through the Inner Oni.

So for the first kiai you have your x x xxx xxxxx x xxxxx x xxxxx x rhythm goin like usual, right? Well in the second half of that kiai, 00:30:069 - , the patterning completely changes, and continues with the A B A B pattern you follow with your rhythm in the first half of the kiai. This much is understandable as the song is very repetitive and gets boring quick.
>so to avoid that I'm making variations between it

However, in the second kiai, you neglect to change anything in the second half and continue the same patterning you established in the first half of the kiai. To me, it doesn't make much sense as to why this isn't consistent with the first kiai.
>I can understand your point, but you can notice the second half of second Kiai is an extended form of the first one. Also as I've pointed above, repetitive songs =/= repetitive map so making variations and a increasing difficulty through the song is good for me

Now for some specific concerns:

01:51:969 - I don't see how these doubles are justified in any way, there's a piano and synth pad on the red tick that you can easily fix to map by moving the d from the first double to the red tick.
>You can really hear the drums on 01:51:969 (707,710) - and it's an evolutive build up to the Kiai

00:39:669 - This section sounds like it should be mapped to the synth that has hits on 1 and the red tick of 2 (00:40:119 - ), so when I play through this part (which lasts until the final missed red tick 00:54:519 - here) it was pretty awkward. You could easily fix this by adding a note to each of these neglected red ticks and changing the surrounding note pitches to fit or whatever. Your choice to map the white tick before the red could be justified by saying you're following the drums here, but then the very next white tick has a drum, but no note, so that doesn't exactly work.
>If you compare 00:39:669 - with 00:49:269 - you can notice I'm letting the first 1/1 break cause it's a Kiai ending so players will need that little relax. Also on the second part I start following the electronic sound instead the drum as I'm doing in the first half of this section. I keep following strongest sound throughtout the whole song so it's pretty neccesary to make a variation on them. I'd not to make the same thing along the whole map zz

01:42:069 - The piano here is more audible than the drums you seem to be mapping here, so playing xxx xxx xxx xxx when the pattern I hear is xxxx x xxxxx x x trips me up.
>It's about the build up I'm making until 01:46:869 - . I can agree with you in someway, drum becomes stronger from 01:44:469 - but on a first instance I started drum follow here and it was not really great to play. Players can notice the rhythm change here easily considering last part was only piano.

Ye that's what I think. Let me know what you think of my think.

Nifty wrote:

Okay, most of the things you said seem to make sense, but you didn't justify why 00:39:669 - is not mapped to the prominent sound besides "people need a break." As the top diff of a set, I doubt people need that much of a break, and you would still have 1/1 pauses between phrases in that section if you mapped to the sound on the red tick.

Also, the transition from 3plets and 5plets everywhere to 1/2 spaced patterns with 1 3plet each is already such a large difficulty drop that the extra space to give people a break that is causing neglect to the main rhythm is not needed.
>Well more than a neccesity is about how it seems. I mean finising a kiai with a big note is pretty nice specially at this kind of songs so the next space is about to emphasize there's a more relaxing part incoming (at least I feel that like player and mapper).

Oh and last thing, the drums your hearing at 01:51:969 - are not a drum. The drums are literally going "kick snare kick snare kick snare kick snare" on 1/1 spacing for that segment of time. The only drum that I can just barely hear on a blue tick is on the 3/4, which is why I suggested to use ddk. They stand out so bad because they're the only uniquely mapped rhythm, because that rhythm doesn't exist in the music.
>Both kat's I've point are snares and doubles are about forming the next section as I pointed above :p

xfraczynho wrote:

I mean finising a kiai with a big note is pretty nice specially at this kind of songs so the next space is about to emphasize there's a more relaxing part incoming (at least I feel that like player and mapper).

Nifty wrote:

xfraczynho wrote:

I mean finising a kiai with a big note is pretty nice specially at this kind of songs so the next space is about to emphasize there's a more relaxing part incoming (at least I feel that like player and mapper).

The thing is, this is far too early and neglecting such an important instrument in the section that there's no sense in a 3/2 breaks being immediately after the kiai when the next 3/2 break that isn't ignoring the synth that should be mapped on the red tick is almost 40 seconds later at 01:18:069 - .
As I pointed above most of the breaks depends on how dense it came from the last section. If 00:39:669 - this break different than 01:08:469 - is simply cause that. Also you can get this 01:08:919 - is a neccesary pitch to be mapped on here so adding a don on 01:08:769 - is great talking about emphasizing that note. Not like 00:40:119 - where I'm mapping the cymbal and it's a repetition of 00:39:969 - (the main sound).
I won't forget to mention that starting at 00:49:269 - there are no breaks longer than 1/1 until 01:18:069 - as well, so this "emphasizing there is a relaxing part coming" does not come across when the part that is meant to be "emphasizing the relaxing part" happens 40 seconds before the relaxing part.
For an Inner Oni making 1/1 breaks to emphasize the relax part is enough. 01:18:069 - I consider this an exception since it becomes reaaally more slow than before. Even I feel it overmapped but pretty neccesary for Inner difficulty

If you do want to talk about this over discord or irc feel free to message me, but I do want my concerns and the responses to them in this thread for the most part, as community members should be allowed to add onto discussion of these issues.
And yeah, I agree with you on this. Just wanted to avoid making a conversation but since there are good arguments on your points it's welcome :p