tasuke912 wrote:

looking good. Bubbled!

Stefan wrote:

log

03:33 Stefan: a
03:33 *Stefan is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1297308 Erik McClure - DioSynth [_yu68's Oni]]
03:34 xfraczynho: o/
03:35 Stefan: We should reduce the dimensions of BG, to 1366x768 or 1024x768
03:35 Stefan: If you need help, I can assist you here.
03:36 xfraczynho: isn't this currently 1920x1200?
03:36 xfraczynho: I've read that's currently rankable D:
03:37 Stefan: Hmm, well
03:37 Stefan: It's not urgently unrankable, or that important
03:37 Stefan: actually..
03:37 Stefan: I think it's fine
03:37 xfraczynho: from skylish and nardo
03:37 Stefan: Just
03:38 xfraczynho: and it seems well... anyways I got other dimensions (used 1366 before)
03:38 Stefan: I find the BG should be move up for a bit
03:38 xfraczynho: up?
03:38 Stefan: You know how to alter the BG position?
03:38 xfraczynho: 84yeah
03:38 xfraczynho: but I think it's currently nice
03:39 xfraczynho: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8838951 -> the orange circle feels great
03:39 Stefan: I'd say it should be -30 imo
03:39 Stefan: so it's more in the mid
03:39 xfraczynho: if I move up white line wont look good
03:39 xfraczynho: so covered
03:39 Stefan: Hmm, okay then.
03:40 xfraczynho: if it would be standard I would agree with you
03:40 xfraczynho: but considering it moves down cause taiko it seems well
03:40 xfraczynho: :3
03:41 Stefan: okay then
03:43 Stefan: Futsuu: 01:19:269 (5) -
03:43 Stefan: Wondering.. Why is Futsuu the only difficulty with a note here (excluding Inner Oni)
03:44 Stefan: I mean, neither Muzu or Oni have one here
03:44 Stefan: it looks extremly strange to me.
03:45 xfraczynho: oups my bad
03:45 xfraczynho: deleting on futsuu
03:45 Stefan: 01:08:469 - 01:18:069 - for Futsuu and Muzukashii: I'd suggest to make Muzukashii for this part slightly denser/harder
03:45 xfraczynho: this is the slowest part on the song so I pref the 8/1 break
03:45 Stefan: since both difficulties are exact the same, dense-wise
03:46 Stefan: https://derpovic.s-ul.eu/5vrB4CJz.png just as reference
03:46 Stefan: Kantan~Oni
03:47 xfraczynho: !!! Finally!
03:47 xfraczynho: how ddo you do that?!
03:47 xfraczynho: I've seen that so many time befeore
03:47 xfraczynho: (btw I'm adding 01:13:194 - only don here)
03:47 Stefan: It's Modding Assistant
03:47 xfraczynho: I wanted to ask chromo (since I've seen that from him xD) but he's offline
03:47 Stefan: let me find the download link quick
03:47 xfraczynho: great
03:48 Stefan: t/359381/start=150
03:48 xfraczynho: I've looking for that exactlyfrom 2 days ago
03:48 Stefan: check Bakari's post
03:48 xfraczynho: nice ~~
03:48 xfraczynho: great tool
03:48 Stefan: And no worries about the filename, bakari was just silly
03:48 xfraczynho: thanks
03:48 xfraczynho: yeah xD I noticed
03:48 Stefan: but yeah, it's indeed a really good tool
03:48 xfraczynho: btw I would pref to have similar density on f-m
03:48 xfraczynho: on this part
03:49 Stefan: working with it for mapping and modding now
03:49 xfraczynho: 01:13:194 - by making a triple (ddd) on muzu here is enough
03:49 Stefan: Yeah, that can work
03:49 xfraczynho: if I make it harder could be so overmapped imo
03:49 xfraczynho: and yeah, I'm gonna use this a lot lol
03:50 Stefan: for Futsuu: https://derpovic.s-ul.eu/B758QF35.png
03:50 Stefan: at 01:31:269 - 01:37:269 -
03:50 Stefan: try adding some 1/2 notes
03:51 Stefan: since Muzukashii uses a lot of them here.
03:51 Stefan: it doesn't have to be that many
03:51 Stefan: but spread-wise it'd work out better.
03:51 xfraczynho: yeah I agree with yu
03:51 xfraczynho: you
03:52 xfraczynho: 01:32:919 - d01:35:319 -
03:52 xfraczynho: d too
03:52 xfraczynho: it's enough
03:52 xfraczynho: I think there's a little drum shake so fills nice
03:52 Stefan: yeah, that will work fine
03:52 xfraczynho: (btw does this tool work for std aswell right?)
03:53 Stefan: Yes, it was originally designed for standard
03:53 Stefan: but has taiko support as well
03:54 xfraczynho: seems great for taiko lol for spread stuff
03:54 Stefan: So, do you have anything else you want to change on the set?
03:54 Stefan: on your own
03:55 xfraczynho: tbh I haven't anything else to do
03:55 Stefan: Okay.
03:55 xfraczynho: I've check the spread (manually)
03:55 xfraczynho: little issues that you already pointed out
04:02 Stefan: good good.
04:02 Stefan: Well, I have nothing else to say.
04:03 Stefan: You can update and let me know when you're ready.
04:03 xfraczynho: great :3
04:03 xfraczynho: let me take a quick check on inner
04:03 xfraczynho: then updating
04:05 xfraczynho: 00:19:494 (90) -01:03:519 (443) - only making them d
04:05 xfraczynho: not any other change; updated

!!! Really proud atm. Thanks

IamKwaN wrote:

i guess i need reference for current meta

Voyage wrote:

Metadata Check

• Artist

1. Change the artist's name to Erik McClure, the artist himself likes to interchange between different aliases such Blackhole, Blackhole12 and etc. But, he seems to consistently use Eric McClure as an alias so it's better to use Eric McClure then Blackhole. If you're still unsure about it, there's official proof from the artist himself in this map's description.
   Source
2. Remove Newgrounds from Source, the music downloading/streaming website isn't applicable as a official Source.
   Tags
3. Remove Eric McClure in tags, if you also follow my above suggestion about the Artist, it would make sense to delete this to avoid duplicates.
4. Add Blackhole in tags, another alias the artist goes by. This would coincide with the above suggestion about changing the Artist name.
5. Add Newgrounds in tags, if you choose to follow the above suggestion about Source, it would make more sense to have Newgrounds as a tag since it's related to the song and artist in that, the song was uploaded on Newgrounds by the artist.
6. Add Trance in tags, genre of the song as quoted by the artist, "I'm not actually sure what genre this is... so into Techno it goes!".
7. Replace the tags Audio and Portal with Audio Deathmatch and NGADM, the tags Audio and Portal are a bit too broad referring to the Newsground website overall. These two tags I suggested are a bit more specific since the song was an entry for the Newgrounds Audio Deathmatch 2010 competition and NGADM is the abbreviation of the contest.

Source(s) used: Newgrounds, DioSynth, NGADM, Bandcamp, SoundCloud, VGMdb.
Footnote(s): Not many official sources available so I resorted to using secondhand Sources for some of the Metadata.[/notice]

IamKwaN wrote:

There are two concerns over this song from me. First, why isn't the song's title ~BH~ DioSynth? I downloaded the song from Newgrounds and the file property shows ~BH~ DioSynth as title and Blackhole12 as artist. So, secondly, is it appropriate for you to change the alias of the composer for a song? I mean I know they are the same person but would you use senya as artist for Din Don Dan?

Edit: Read Oko's map description, artist alias issue is resolved, let's focus on the title.

IamKwaN wrote:

can someone confirm this by sending the composer a mail? XD

IamKwaN wrote:

can someone confirm this by sending the composer a mail? XD

IamKwaN wrote:

can someone confirm this by sending the composer a mail? XD

xfraczynho wrote:

IamKwaN wrote:

can someone confirm this by sending the composer a mail? XD

Proof:
Is it enough I guess?

Arrival wrote:

dropping this here, i don't understand your rhythm choices in inner oni's kiais, the last one most of all; their structure doesn't reflect the music at all to me and it just seems random.

what i'd suggest as a basic core structure could be this 01:57:669 -

this would reflect way more efficiently the song than what you actually have which is mapped... quite randomly

then you can play around it by improvising stuff like this

this is just an exemple on how you could make the kiai more interesting, as of now you're not playing with the don/kat contrasts enough and it gives a somewhat messy results where you just dont feel like playing the song...

my two cents

xfraczynho wrote:

Pattern usage is according on that base (most about variety on them). [/b]

xfraczynho wrote:

from 01:57:669 - at 50% pr you can get 01:57:669 (760) - 01:57:969 (764) - 01:58:269 (766) - 01:58:569 (770) - notes which I locked as kat cause they follows kick really well

MrSergio wrote:

xfraczynho wrote:

Pattern usage is according on that base (most about variety on them). [/b]

I believe that's Arrival's point here. The variation of your base is what makes it hard to play, or rather unpredictable and seemingly unstructured.
If you change the main reference the player has how can it be considered "structured" ? D:
That's what I meant; current base I'm using on 01:56:469 - is d k k k / d d k k. That's all the variation on these sections starts then from here 01:57:069 - kxxxk is what I'm locking for as you can notice on every sections so should not be that hard for players to follow middle variations

xfraczynho wrote:

from 01:57:669 - at 50% pr you can get 01:57:669 (760) - 01:57:969 (764) - 01:58:269 (766) - 01:58:569 (770) - notes which I locked as kat cause they follows kick really well

Ye, but then you stop doing so with 01:58:869 (773) - and start alternating between the two with 02:00:069 (784) - 02:00:369 (788) - 02:00:669 (790) - 02:00:969 (794) -
As I pointed above; I'm making variations between d k k k and d d k k as base (you can look at them on my mod replies before) every 8/1 sections on Kiais so triple usage on frirst three notes (second and 4th 8/1 on Kiai's) emphatises the drum shake and helps at variation. You can look at my Ozzy and Stefan reply on this since I used these notes alone on a first instance but then I noticed this feels and fills really better (also help at not making this feel that empty)

Imo you should really give a second or third chance to Arrival's post. Maybe I'm not experienced enough to play this sort of stuff, but it does feel stranger than a lot of maps which are even harder than this in star rating
I'm not trying to be mindclosed on this way; I tried his suggestion and I can agree in someway with this, but I still think current state is better talking about this kind of songs; not trying to make a hard map, just making something that really fills great according to song


Also, let me add some things I found myself, which may or may not make sense to you:
01:56:469 (749,750,751,752,753,754) - this first passage that starts the kiai is what I find to be the most fitting way to represent this rhythm.
That rhythm gets repeats a lot during the kiai, since it's like the intro to each variation the composer added in this part:
- 01:58:869 (773,774,775,776,777,778) - doesn't work
- 02:01:269 (797,798,799,800,801,802) - works
- 02:03:669 (821,822,823,824,825,826) - doesn't work
- 02:06:069 (845,846,847,848,849,850) - works
Yeah I got your point; same as I pointed above, look at my reply on Ozzy/Stefan mod. Both pointed your way and it feels really more fun at playing (and accurate imo). Both points you're saying are fine but they can be better for Oni diff maybe

This keeps alternating, and it was probably meant for variation.
You can also say that since the whole rhythm is repeated but slightly changed by the composer you can do this, but I believe you should keep the first part of the repeated pattern as is and vary the second half of it where the rhythm indeed changes
Yeah, it's repetitive but this doesn't mean making repetitive patterns (maybe more notes similar is enough), also drum makes some little variations on it so I think it's currently nice. As I pointed; not trying to be mindclosed at your suggestions; but I'm leaving at it is :') thanks for your feedbacks anyways :3

• [General]

1. 02:21:069 - unused timing point. You can simply remove it.

• [Muzukashii]

1. From 00:07:269 to 01:18:069 - the pattern chain lasts for 71 seconds without any 2/1 breaks, which could be demanding for intermediate players compared to the availability of rests in Futsuu.
2. 00:39:969 (163) - delete and move 00:40:119 (164) - to 00:40:269 - . This is in fact a good spot for a longer rest after the dense kiai especially when Futsuu has a 4/1 break here.
3. 00:41:019 (166) - you may move this note to 00:41:169 - , move 00:41:469 (167) - to 00:41:319 - and change to k for the background instrumental pitch.
4. 00:42:369 (170,171) - these notes could be swapped as k d for flow as well as variation.
5. 00:44:769 (181,182) - same suggestion as 00:39:969 (163) - for another 2/1 rest moment.
6. 00:45:819 (184) - similar to 00:41:019 (166) - , you may move the note to 00:45:969 - and change to k, then move 00:46:269 (185) - to 00:46:119 -

• [Inner Oni]
  
  I could somehow understand your rationale behind by reading the discussion above, but you can still reconsider the overall pattern usage in this difficulty. In addition, there is room for improvement regarding the overall flow in the kiai sessions.

1. 00:23:319 (126) - consider changing this note to d to make the flow less rigid ? The previous similar segment is comprised of kat-intensive patterns around 00:20:919 - , so d could accompany the rhythm change (also known as additional synths in the background) in a way better.
2. 00:28:119 (173) - same as ^
3. 00:29:319 (185) - k here would fit the snare well.
4. 00:30:444 (196) and 00:37:644 (260) - look randomly placed as the rest similar spots are all mapped as k. Try to form a sequence or change them to k for consistency. For example, you can swap 00:30:444 (196,200) and 00:37:644 (260,264) - to k d to achieve the said purpose.
5. 01:59:319 (777) - 02:04:119 (825) - 02:08:919 (873) and 02:13:719 (921) - same as 00:23:319 (126) -
6. 02:14:469 (928,929,930,931,932,933,934,935,936,937,938,939,940) - maybe try k ddkdkkd ddkkd instead of kkddk d dkddkkd ? The flow would be smoother and more natural towards the end.

Raiden wrote:

3/2 breaks are more than sufficient at this level of difficulty. 2/1 breaks are way too Futsuu-ish

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

Disqualified as there exists consecutive mapping in Muzukashii apart from the pattern arrangement concerns raised as above.
There we go

• [General]

1. 02:21:069 - unused timing point. You can simply remove it.

Right, also changed 02:20:469 - to 5%

• [Muzukashii]

1. From 00:07:269 to 01:18:069 - the pattern chain lasts for 71 seconds without any 2/1 breaks, which could be demanding for intermediate players compared to the availability of rests in Futsuu.
   I agree with above comments about enough 2/1 usage. I can get Futsuu got lot of 2/1 breaks but this difficulty (I could point this at watching scoreboard according to players pp / rank) should be good considering the action is pretty much until 01:18:069 - . If I make many more 2/1 breaks this will turn a little undermapped so could be really close to Futsuu diff. Gotta make an equilibrium between them :')
2. 00:39:969 (163) - delete and move 00:40:119 (164) - to 00:40:269 - . This is in fact a good spot for a longer rest after the dense kiai especially when Futsuu has a 4/1 break here.
   Well! I think this sounds really good; even it's contradictory with my above explanation, it can help if it's going to be really neccesary (and I like breaks after Kiai so seems senseful).
3. 00:41:019 (166) - you may move this note to 00:41:169 - , move 00:41:469 (167) - to 00:41:319 - and change to k for the background instrumental pitch.
   I think the drum it's clearly audible and makes sense if I make d d to follow it. If I follow your suggestion is gonna create a basic 1/1 pattern usage that makes it feel like K-F diff
4. 00:42:369 (170,171) - these notes could be swapped as k d for flow as well as variation.
   I think following instrumental sound here is more important so d k is better about following ascendant melody
5. 00:44:769 (181,182) - same suggestion as 00:39:969 (163) - for another 2/1 rest moment.
   Well I think I'm gonna just use this cause consistency (considering my first comment)
6. 00:45:819 (184) - similar to 00:41:019 (166) - , you may move the note to 00:45:969 - and change to k, then move 00:46:269 (185) - to 00:46:119 -

Same comment about current d d usage :')

• [Inner Oni]
  
  I could somehow understand your rationale behind by reading the discussion above, but you can still reconsider the overall pattern usage in this difficulty. In addition, there is room for improvement regarding the overall flow in the kiai sessions.

1. 00:23:319 (126) - consider changing this note to d to make the flow less rigid ? The previous similar segment is comprised of kat-intensive patterns around 00:20:919 - , so d could accompany the rhythm change (also known as additional synths in the background) in a way better.
2. 00:28:119 (173) - same as ^
   Well I think I'm gonna hold the current d k k k / d d k k usage in every 8/1 sections on first half of Kiai. I can really get your points about rigid stuff, but I think they're pretty neccesary since clearest sound is the instrumental sound that it's totally ascendant (so if I make don after some kat it's gonna turn senseless)
3. 00:29:319 (185) - k here would fit the snare well.
   I think current snare-follow is good at kat usaging, I don't get any sound that needs change; 00:29:169 (184,185) - k d usage is accurate imo
4. 00:30:444 (196) and 00:37:644 (260) - look randomly placed as the rest similar spots are all mapped as k. Try to form a sequence or change them to k for consistency. For example, you can swap 00:30:444 (196,200) and 00:37:644 (260,264) - to k d to achieve the said purpose.
   It's mostly about variation; as I pointed several times I'm locking current dkkk ddkk usage so variations between them are acceptable and followable. Anyways I think making this 00:38:094 (264) - don could help (instead ctrl+g'ing) your second suggestion. kdk pattern at 00:37:569 - fills really good imo :')
5. 01:59:319 (777) - 02:04:119 (825) - 02:08:919 (873) and 02:13:719 (921) - same as 00:23:319 (126) -
   Same comment :')
6. 02:14:469 (928,929,930,931,932,933,934,935,936,937,938,939,940) - maybe try k ddkdkkd ddkkd instead of kkddk d dkddkkd ? The flow would be smoother and more natural towards the end.
   I changed it to ddkdk dkddkkd cause I feel this feels a little overmapped (and not accurate) by following your suggestion (02:14:919 - note here)

You may call me back after that.

• [General]

1. Seeing that you altered the last timing point's volume, I would suggest volume changes for the last spinner as follows for a more uniform decrease:
   02:16:869 - 55%
   02:18:069 - 40%
   02:19:269 - 25%
   02:20:469 - 10%

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

A quick recheck here. (no kd)

• [General]

1. Seeing that you altered the last timing point's volume, I would suggest volume changes for the last spinner as follows for a more uniform decrease:
   02:16:869 - 55%
   02:18:069 - 40%
   02:19:269 - 25%
   02:20:469 - 10%

The overall structure of Inner Oni is more noticeable at least upon the change, so I am fine with that.

Nifty wrote:

I have some concerns after playing through the Inner Oni.

So for the first kiai you have your x x xxx xxxxx x xxxxx x xxxxx x rhythm goin like usual, right? Well in the second half of that kiai, 00:30:069 - , the patterning completely changes, and continues with the A B A B pattern you follow with your rhythm in the first half of the kiai. This much is understandable as the song is very repetitive and gets boring quick.
>so to avoid that I'm making variations between it

However, in the second kiai, you neglect to change anything in the second half and continue the same patterning you established in the first half of the kiai. To me, it doesn't make much sense as to why this isn't consistent with the first kiai.
>I can understand your point, but you can notice the second half of second Kiai is an extended form of the first one. Also as I've pointed above, repetitive songs =/= repetitive map so making variations and a increasing difficulty through the song is good for me

Now for some specific concerns:

01:51:969 - I don't see how these doubles are justified in any way, there's a piano and synth pad on the red tick that you can easily fix to map by moving the d from the first double to the red tick.
>You can really hear the drums on 01:51:969 (707,710) - and it's an evolutive build up to the Kiai

00:39:669 - This section sounds like it should be mapped to the synth that has hits on 1 and the red tick of 2 (00:40:119 - ), so when I play through this part (which lasts until the final missed red tick 00:54:519 - here) it was pretty awkward. You could easily fix this by adding a note to each of these neglected red ticks and changing the surrounding note pitches to fit or whatever. Your choice to map the white tick before the red could be justified by saying you're following the drums here, but then the very next white tick has a drum, but no note, so that doesn't exactly work.
>If you compare 00:39:669 - with 00:49:269 - you can notice I'm letting the first 1/1 break cause it's a Kiai ending so players will need that little relax. Also on the second part I start following the electronic sound instead the drum as I'm doing in the first half of this section. I keep following strongest sound throughtout the whole song so it's pretty neccesary to make a variation on them. I'd not to make the same thing along the whole map zz

01:42:069 - The piano here is more audible than the drums you seem to be mapping here, so playing xxx xxx xxx xxx when the pattern I hear is xxxx x xxxxx x x trips me up.
>It's about the build up I'm making until 01:46:869 - . I can agree with you in someway, drum becomes stronger from 01:44:469 - but on a first instance I started drum follow here and it was not really great to play. Players can notice the rhythm change here easily considering last part was only piano.

Ye that's what I think. Let me know what you think of my think.