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I often lose PP or not get better PP-wise play submitted, because I either overwrite it with play that have higher number of Score points, or the higher PP play doesn't have enough Score points to beat other play with the same mods combination.

Well, it's not just me. If you read some reddit, in-game channels or check this subforum regularly, you probably know that from a long time already people keep complaining about this, and sometimes the cases are really extreme, when their 400-500 PP play was not submitted, because of sub 200 pp one.

There are many examples of such things happening and submission for multiple mods combinations was a big step forward, reducing how extreme it can be (no more losing pp out of DT plays because of non-DT ones) but maybe one or two more steps are still needed?

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You can still easily lose (or not gain) PP with the same mods combination. It's even worse, when you play taiko, especially converts, as if you care about your position in ranking, it's often better to simply ignore drumrolls, as some inconsistencies on them can easily make you lose PP for SS score or get it not submitted, for a sake of some low acc play...

Example of a situation (osu!std), where not-submitted play would give much more PP:


And don't say that score v2 will fix it, because it will not - without +Hidden, the S-rank play above would give about 870k score, while the higher PP score would be around 702k points. Even, if the difference seems smaller than 850k vs 528k, it's still far from changing the result.

Sure, maybe it will be less often with Score v2, but it will not fix the problem at all.

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What is the reason that, despite many complains from players and people trying to bring the topic up over the time, we still don't have it? Will we ever have PP>Score?
These questions, plus few other ones below, are the reason why I made this topic.

> Is the problem related to some technical difficulties with doing this? (it doesn't really seem hard to simply keep 2 best plays, the highest score and highest PP one, but maybe I just don't know how code works and it needs much of fixing around and changing things?)
> Is it Developers' decision to keep Score > PP, whatever the reason to consider it to be better is?
> Or maybe the reason is something different?
> Is it even considered to do something about it in future?

Can we expect that osu!lazer can give us PP > Score or it will only give us Score v2, which aside of making is less often, will not fix the problem at all?

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I hope that we could hear some concrete answer on this one. I don't know, maybe the answer was already given and as I don't follow all the news that appear, I missed it, but if so, then I would be glad for someone pointing me there :)

Scarlet Evans
I had 90-something PP sliderbreak play, then I overwrote it with 80-81 pp choke play and lost 168 ranks...
Then I fixed it with a little over 100 pp choke play and got +365 ranks.
However, with further trying to FC, or even SS the map, I overwrote it with higher combo play (still choke), but much less acc, so I lost 280 ranks and ended up with 89 pp score... which is even low than I had at the beginning :cry:

screenshot: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8187804

And something like this is no rare sight on short maps... I will probably FC the map, if I will keep trying, but playing short maps is such a roulette..
Any hopes that we will have PP > score in future?

Edit: Overwrote it with even worse score and lost another ~35 ranks. PP from 88.99 went down to 86.28 :roll:https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8187816

Edit.2: This sliderbreak would be 102pp, if we had PP > score, but it wasn't good enough to overwrite 86pp:
peppy said he see's no reason why pp>score should exist.


Dntm8kmeeatu wrote:

peppy said he see's no reason why pp>score should exist.

He's right. They might as well remove score.
PP is used as a performance indicator, on which the ranking is based. PP system seems for me to be constructed in a way, where you practically only gain PP. I don't see any reason for punishing people with making them lose PP for no apparent reason, only because they are having fun from passing the maps and don't frantically retry/quit it, for a sole sake of farming or so. If it's really not a flaw, then what is a reason for it's to function this way?

_Asop wrote:

Dntm8kmeeatu wrote:

peppy said he see's no reason why pp>score should exist.

He's right. They might as well remove score.
Would it really be better to just remove score? Why not keep both and simply allow for best PP play, or at least not punish player with losing better scores?

Can you tell me, if there are any reasons to punish player for submitting a play that is weaker than their previous one?

I don't have a screenshot ready to show you, but if we all quote peppy, then I remember peppy saying in past, something along that having fun from playing is essential here. There was also a half-joke, that maybe he should add a pop-up, asking if you are having fun, which could close your game, if you are not (cause you're bored, angry etc. and don't enjoy it at all). Removing the score is one solution, but is it really a good one? Some people do enjoy it too.

I don't think that it's really fun, if people have to keep worry about their play being worse that their previous play. One could say that it's belittling a gaming experience.

If only better plays are submitted and from amongst all mods combinations the highest PP is taken into account, is there really any purpose behind replacing good plays with worse ones?

Is it really more fun to always keep attention to your score, so you won't get punished by losing PP, than simply play and enjoy the game, like peppy suggested?

It looks natural for me, that many people would like to simply enjoy the game and pass different maps, while listening to the music, but isn't it discouraging that you are sometimes literally punished for not quitting or purposely failing the map before the end?
Isn't it enough the reason for that?


So, if you say that there's no reason for PP>score, then maybe there's also no reason for burdening players with unnecessary cautiousness about how good their current score is, in comparison to previous one?

If there's no reason for PP>score, then at least maybe we could not lose PP from worse plays? People like their numbers to grow. Why allow them to fear that you will permanently lose the better score, on which you worked and achieved it in past?

Only thing that happens, when you do lose PP like that, is stuff like sadness, for some people anger, plus a feeling of discouragement...

What's the point of losing significant PP plays, when the whole system is constructed in a way that you almost only keep gaining PP? Isn't it a flaw that slightly decrepifies that lynchpin?

Edit: fixed some stuff. Sorry, if not all the commas are grammatically placed correctly.
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