2017-06-23 20:48 Lulu-: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1289218 Demetori - Wind God Girl [Extra Stage]]
2017-06-23 20:49 Lulu-: 00:02:297 (1,2) - first off those kinda seem lazy tbh you could rotate them or something
2017-06-23 20:50 LwL: the elusive 5° rotate?
2017-06-23 20:50 LwL: I guess yeah
2017-06-23 20:50 Lulu-: :^
2017-06-23 20:50 LwL: probably a bit nicer
2017-06-23 20:50 Lulu-: imo straight lines look kinda clunky
2017-06-23 20:51 Lulu-: unless they're part of some blanketing stuff then they're fine to me, i'm just not a fan of them
2017-06-23 20:51 Lulu-: 00:10:847 (2) - these sliders bug me
2017-06-23 20:51 LwL: y tho
2017-06-23 20:52 Lulu-: what you're doing with the shape basically makes most players snap back by a bit while playing them
2017-06-23 20:52 Lulu-: which contradicts the straight/curved ones you had early
2017-06-23 20:52 Lulu-: earlier
2017-06-23 20:52 Lulu-: *
2017-06-23 20:52 Lulu-: the problem with those is the general idea being inconsistent with the music
2017-06-23 20:53 LwL: does this shape really affect people snappin
2017-06-23 20:53 LwL: g
2017-06-23 20:53 LwL: I didn't even think of that tbh
2017-06-23 20:53 LwL: I snap to the circle and then follow the slider
2017-06-23 20:53 Lulu-: the guitar sounds the same in all of the instances you placed sliders, but your shapes don't follow that 100%
2017-06-23 20:53 Lulu-: it's not just some people snapping behind
2017-06-23 20:53 Lulu-: it's the visual impact too
2017-06-23 20:54 Lulu-: that slider will be perceived differently from a standard curved slider like this one
2017-06-23 20:54 LwL: ya makes sense
2017-06-23 20:54 Lulu-: 00:19:697 (4) -
2017-06-23 20:54 LwL: didn't think of that
2017-06-23 20:54 Lulu-: we all started somewhere
2017-06-23 20:54 LwL: was too focused on not making it all look the same
2017-06-23 20:54 Lulu-: variation is good, but it should make sense too
2017-06-23 20:55 Lulu-: you could try working on having different patterns or angles for each pitch
2017-06-23 20:55 LwL: the basic idea was just to vary it on ncs since it's all basically the same anyway
2017-06-23 20:55 LwL: hmhmm
2017-06-23 20:55 Lulu-: like you could have a triangular pattern with curved sliders by copy pasting and rotating by 120°
2017-06-23 20:56 Lulu-: there's a lot you can do with that part
2017-06-23 20:56 Lulu-: and also i don't think you should nc the white ticks before the downbeats in that part
2017-06-23 20:57 Lulu-: to me they feel like they're leading into something new instead of starting something new you know
2017-06-23 20:57 LwL: pitch change occurs on those
2017-06-23 20:57 LwL: which is why they felt like they should be the ncs to me
2017-06-23 20:57 Lulu-: not really tbh
2017-06-23 20:57 LwL: but I was debating it
2017-06-23 20:57 LwL: this was just what I went with originally so I stuck to it
2017-06-23 20:57 Lulu-: 00:19:247 (1,1) - these are the same pitch
2017-06-23 20:57 Lulu-: yet the second one has an nc
2017-06-23 20:58 Lulu-: 00:20:447 (2) - while the pitch changes here
2017-06-23 20:58 Lulu-: it might just be a bit confusing since everything sounds so similar here
2017-06-23 20:58 LwL: there's a distinct difference in the guitar sound there
2017-06-23 20:58 LwL: imo
2017-06-23 20:58 LwL: and it starts at the nc
2017-06-23 20:58 Lulu-: well you don't have to change it
2017-06-23 20:58 Lulu-: but another thing for the sliders
2017-06-23 20:59 Lulu-: if you have different slider shapes, they should make sense
2017-06-23 20:59 Lulu-: you shouldn't use three different variations for the same sound
2017-06-23 20:59 Lulu-: that would just make your map look messy like it does now
2017-06-23 21:00 Lulu-: something that would work is to have sliders with red points for pitch changes and curved ones for the rest, that's all up to you
2017-06-23 21:00 Lulu-: streams seem fine so not gonna talk about those
2017-06-23 21:01 LwL: streams are the part I couldn't really judge
2017-06-23 21:01 LwL: I knew that the other part looked shit just had no idea on what to do about it
2017-06-23 21:01 LwL: which I do now
2017-06-23 21:01 LwL: so thanks
2017-06-23 21:01 Lulu-: 00:29:447 (3) - these sliders could look much nicer if you put the curves more to the "center" between the red points
2017-06-23 21:02 Lulu-: off center curves give people the 2007 vibes
2017-06-23 21:03 Lulu-: if the curve is too wide to be perfect, just use two points for it
2017-06-23 21:04 Lulu-: your jumps need a lot of work tbh
2017-06-23 21:04 Lulu-: they're not structured nicely and don't flow too well
2017-06-23 21:05 Lulu-: 00:30:197 (4,5,6,7,8,9) - if we take this part
2017-06-23 21:05 LwL: hm
2017-06-23 21:06 Lulu-: you can hear the guitar on the white ticks being a bit more significant
2017-06-23 21:06 Lulu-: but you don't really show that with your patterning
2017-06-23 21:06 LwL: I somewhat disagree I guess
2017-06-23 21:06 Lulu-: or at least take the pitch changes into consideration
2017-06-23 21:06 Lulu-: i mean i can understand why you would disagree
2017-06-23 21:06 Lulu-: but this needs work
2017-06-23 21:06 LwL: I found them to be about equal which is why the spacing is like that
2017-06-23 21:07 LwL: and then lowered for 00:30:797 (8) -
2017-06-23 21:07 Lulu-: the spacing isn't really equal, it feels like it gets lower with each object
2017-06-23 21:07 LwL: it's literally the exact same
2017-06-23 21:07 Lulu-: 00:30:197 (4) - 2.0
2017-06-23 21:07 Lulu-: 00:30:347 (5) - 2.7
2017-06-23 21:08 LwL: with sharper and less sharp angles since the red and white tick do sound different, just not in a way that would make one more significant imo
2017-06-23 21:08 Lulu-: 00:30:497 (6) - this too
2017-06-23 21:08 Lulu-: well
2017-06-23 21:08 LwL: oh
2017-06-23 21:08 LwL: the first one
2017-06-23 21:08 LwL: wtf
2017-06-23 21:08 Lulu-: 00:31:097 (9) - this one is 1.9 too btw
2017-06-23 21:08 Lulu-: you should keep your values the same
2017-06-23 21:08 LwL: ya that's intentional
2017-06-23 21:08 LwL: since it's lower
2017-06-23 21:08 Lulu-: yeah, but like
2017-06-23 21:08 LwL: 0.1 variation isn't noticable
2017-06-23 21:09 Lulu-: if you want to have jumps for weaker sounds, it would be nice to have the values the same
2017-06-23 21:09 Lulu-: it's not, but it is kinda triggering
2017-06-23 21:09 LwL: I'd rather center the note between 00:30:497 (6,7) - than make it 1.9 or 2.0
2017-06-23 21:09 LwL: that's a 5% difference
2017-06-23 21:09 Lulu-: but the spacing is not the bad part about this
2017-06-23 21:09 Lulu-: it's the way you visually structured this
2017-06-23 21:10 Lulu-: there's no real structure behind it, all i can see from this is some poorly eyeballed triangles
2017-06-23 21:10 LwL: pretty much everything is rotated
2017-06-23 21:10 LwL: not necessarily triangles tho
2017-06-23 21:10 LwL: but I don't remember what I did exactly this was a month ago
2017-06-23 21:10 Lulu-: do you know about the shift+ctrl+d tool
2017-06-23 21:10 Lulu-: basically what it does is create polygonal patterns
2017-06-23 21:10 Lulu-: which is super useful for jumps
2017-06-23 21:10 LwL: I'm partial to copypaste and rotate
2017-06-23 21:11 LwL: because getting proper ds on that tool is aids
2017-06-23 21:11 Lulu-: kinda true
2017-06-23 21:11 Lulu-: but as you just said
2017-06-23 21:11 Lulu-: minimal ds alterations are not noticable
2017-06-23 21:11 LwL: if I want a perfect triangle I can get it that way as well
2017-06-23 21:11 Lulu-: but the point is, you didn't
2017-06-23 21:11 LwL: ya but even getting it to the approximate one is a pain in the ass imo
2017-06-23 21:11 LwL: because I didn't want a perfect triangle
2017-06-23 21:12 Lulu-: i just multiply my ds by 1.5 and the patterns seem fine
2017-06-23 21:12 Lulu-: at least give everything in that pattern some context
2017-06-23 21:12 LwL: 00:30:347 (5,6) - is a 50° rotation of 00:30:197 (4,5) -
2017-06-23 21:13 LwL: same with 6,7 and 5,6
2017-06-23 21:13 LwL: 7,8 also but I think I eyeballed the lower ds
2017-06-23 21:13 Lulu-: the concept behind it isn't really bad or anything
2017-06-23 21:13 Lulu-: it's just the execution
2017-06-23 21:13 Lulu-: being pretty poor in comparison to other maps
2017-06-23 21:13 Lulu-: it just doesn't look good you knwo
2017-06-23 21:14 LwL: the problem is I don't know what looks good because my sense for aesthetics is nonexistant
2017-06-23 21:14 Lulu-: sec i can try to make something
2017-06-23 21:14 LwL: only thing I can identify as good looking is hard geometrical patterns and that doesn't work for an entire map obviously
2017-06-23 21:17 Lulu-: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8420288 this is messy but i did it in 10 sec
2017-06-23 21:17 Lulu-: you should get the idea
2017-06-23 21:20 LwL: but now you put additional emphasis on 7 because you change the angle going to it when you didn't for the previous notes
2017-06-23 21:22 Lulu-: it doesn't impact the difficulty of the pattern
2017-06-23 21:22 Lulu-: the spacing makes up for the angle
2017-06-23 21:22 LwL: yeah but it makes the note different from the rest
2017-06-23 21:22 Lulu-: imo the sound on 7 is different
2017-06-23 21:23 Lulu-: the pitch only gets lower from then on
2017-06-23 21:23 LwL: while in the current iteration they're all 2.7x spaced 50° notes (first one aside idk what was going through my mind when I decided on that)
2017-06-23 21:23 LwL: hm
2017-06-23 21:23 LwL: that's an argument
2017-06-23 21:26 Lulu-: so, can we move on
2017-06-23 21:26 Lulu-: just went afk for a second
2017-06-23 21:26 LwL: ya
2017-06-23 21:26 Lulu-: 00:37:547 (5,6) - rip
2017-06-23 21:27 Lulu-: this is too forced
2017-06-23 21:27 LwL: forced how
2017-06-23 21:27 LwL: it's to emphasize the background guitarish thing
2017-06-23 21:28 Lulu-: the angle itself is much sharper than necessary
2017-06-23 21:28 Lulu-: if you want to make a part difficult, you should still try to keep it intuitive
2017-06-23 21:28 LwL: hm
2017-06-23 21:28 LwL: it's very small spacing though
2017-06-23 21:28 LwL: it's not supposed to be difficult and it honestly isn't
2017-06-23 21:29 Lulu-: the player just gained a lot of momentum from the stream before
2017-06-23 21:29 LwL: I was worried about that actually
2017-06-23 21:29 Lulu-: and you're breaking it all for one snap that's not even on an nc
2017-06-23 21:29 Lulu-: you don't usually do edgy stuff within combos
2017-06-23 21:29 LwL: I probably should nc that, but breaking that momentum is the entire point
2017-06-23 21:29 LwL: of why it is so low spaced
2017-06-23 21:29 LwL: emphasizing without making it difficult
2017-06-23 21:30 Lulu-: honestly it is pretty cancerous
2017-06-23 21:30 Lulu-: but w/ew
2017-06-23 21:30 Lulu-: i can't make you change stuff you don't want to change
2017-06-23 21:30 LwL: it's really easy to play
2017-06-23 21:30 Lulu-: did any of the testplayers pull it off
2017-06-23 21:30 LwL: I did
2017-06-23 21:30 Lulu-: while sightreading
2017-06-23 21:30 LwL: and I suck ass at streams
2017-06-23 21:30 Lulu-: you mapped the thing
2017-06-23 21:30 LwL: didn't have anyone testplay it
2017-06-23 21:30 LwL: map isn't even finished
2017-06-23 21:30 Lulu-: testplays are vital
2017-06-23 21:31 Lulu-: you can't solely rely on your own knowledge as a mapper and player to work on your map
2017-06-23 21:31 LwL: only reason it has sp is because some random dude with 3 posts made some useless 2 point nc mod that I wasn't sure whether to even give kd for
2017-06-23 21:31 Lulu-: you shouldn't
2017-06-23 21:31 LwL: I did it because he had 3 posts and I didn't want to discourage him
2017-06-23 21:31 Lulu-: only give kds for stuff that's actually helpful
2017-06-23 21:31 Lulu-: you should get somebody to deny that
2017-06-23 21:32 Lulu-: it's like scamming other modders of their work
2017-06-23 21:32 LwL: hm
2017-06-23 21:32 LwL: eh
2017-06-23 21:32 Lulu-: there's a guy who mapped the entire tokyo set for 1kds
2017-06-23 21:32 LwL: kd is pretty useless
2017-06-23 21:32 Lulu-: it is, but it still has some value
2017-06-23 21:32 Lulu-: like actually showing how much modding experience the modder has
2017-06-23 21:33 LwL: I guess
2017-06-23 21:33 Lulu-: but yeah, testplays are really important
2017-06-23 21:33 Lulu-: because you get to listen to opinions that aren't just yours and represent your target audience
2017-06-23 21:34 Lulu-: in the end, you want to map for a certain group of players right
2017-06-23 21:34 Lulu-: the thing is meant to be played
2017-06-23 21:36 Lulu-: 01:00:722 (4,5) - uh
2017-06-23 21:37 LwL: copypaste fail
2017-06-23 21:37 LwL: already noticed and fixed it while you were afk xd
2017-06-23 21:37 Lulu-: xd
2017-06-23 21:38 Lulu-: 00:42:197 (1,2) - this really shouldn't be stacked
2017-06-23 21:38 Lulu-: it's the only time in the map that you've done this
2017-06-23 21:38 Lulu-: until now
2017-06-23 21:38 Lulu-: and you don't seem to introduce that stacking any time later in
2017-06-23 21:39 LwL: do u think just spacing it same spacing as the stream (so twice as far visually) would work
2017-06-23 21:40 Lulu-: yeah
2017-06-23 21:40 Lulu-: just don't stack it and keep your usual spacing
2017-06-23 21:40 Lulu-: or at least something that makes sense
2017-06-23 21:40 LwL: ya it's too offtrowing as a one-off thing I guess
2017-06-23 21:40 Lulu-: idk if it would be worth it to go through the whole thing tbh, it's mostly just the jumps and aesthetics being lacking
2017-06-23 21:41 LwL: a lot of it is repeating sections anyway
2017-06-23 21:41 LwL: I'd like opinions on some things tho
2017-06-23 21:41 LwL: 01:12:047 (1) - playability of this stream
2017-06-23 21:41 Lulu-: eh
2017-06-23 21:41 Lulu-: i'm not a fan of the angles
2017-06-23 21:41 LwL: I can't judge that only other person I asked also thought it's probably too hard but I was really unsure
2017-06-23 21:41 Lulu-: it could be a lot smoother
2017-06-23 21:42 Lulu-: also instead of doubles you could try using sliders
2017-06-23 21:42 Lulu-: snapping for just two notes seems a bit overkill to me
2017-06-23 21:42 Lulu-: 1/4 sliders could work really well
2017-06-23 21:43 Lulu-: your "regular" streams are mostly fine, but those longer gimmicky ones aren't really polished
2017-06-23 21:44 LwL: 02:43:247 (1) - do you think this one is ok
2017-06-23 21:44 Lulu-: second half is meh
2017-06-23 21:44 Lulu-: just straight lines
2017-06-23 21:44 Lulu-: could use some more curves
2017-06-23 21:45 LwL: but musical change
2017-06-23 21:45 Lulu-: true
2017-06-23 21:45 Lulu-: but even then
2017-06-23 21:46 Lulu-: try using more sliders in your streams for variety
2017-06-23 21:46 Lulu-: your concepts aren't that bad, but you just lack general experience atm
2017-06-23 21:47 LwL: ya
2017-06-23 21:47 LwL: power speed mapper at a pace of ~12 maps in 2.5 years
2017-06-23 21:47 Lulu-: that's more than i finished
2017-06-23 21:47 Lulu-: i just tend to give up halfway in
2017-06-23 21:47 LwL: oh some of those are unfinished
2017-06-23 21:47 Lulu-: o
2017-06-23 21:48 LwL: I think I only finished like 6
2017-06-23 21:48 Lulu-: idk i started like 60+ maps
2017-06-23 21:48 LwL: tho 3 of them were marathons
2017-06-23 21:48 Lulu-: finished 5ish
2017-06-23 21:48 Lulu-: but with each map you improve by a bit
2017-06-23 21:48 LwL: yap
2017-06-23 21:48 Lulu-: i'd say just fix the minor stuff for now and revisit this some time after finishing
2017-06-23 21:49 Lulu-: because most of the points is just obvious if you have more experience
2017-06-23 21:49 Lulu-: aree*
2017-06-23 21:49 Lulu-: are*
2017-06-23 21:49 Lulu-: smaasaodufgb
2017-06-23 21:49 LwL: typing is hard
2017-06-23 21:49 Lulu-: ikr
2017-06-23 21:51 LwL: (post in thread if you want kd)