Chorogons - Ishukan Communication(TV size) [Taiko]

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Arrival
Owell
Catgirl

ARGENTINE DREAM wrote:

The main problem is that this is a map with an odd time snap that makes SR calculation fail miserably at its job. Basically, if this map is ranked, then anyone can use odd time snaps to make pp rain rankable maps and therefore, that will support the idea that grinding pp easy is better than having fun and playing quality maps.

Ephemeral wrote:

It also, as ARGENTINE DREAM states, shaves more than a 1.3 stars off the map's overall difficulty as calculated by the score processor.

That is hugely significant.
isn't this a hint that the star rating formula should be looked into?
Surono
not-nut'd rip the ppers XD
Aras
REFORM THE PP RANKING SYSTEM
Raiden
568,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
11695,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
49485,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
76160,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
87264,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
based off pishfati's initial timing but adjusted some offsets

to me this sounds mostly accurate

feel free to gather more opinions of more experienced and expert guys (i am not rofl)
Greenshell
Drama in a taiko thread \:D/
since this got unranked, is there any reason to have "ravioli" in tags other than for the meme?
and yeah about the timing you should gather more opinions if you're still willing to push this forward
Ephemeral
In Skylish's defense, the original full-length Ishukan track is absolutely fucked as far as timing goes as well, so there's no error on his part from attempting to approximate it. We just need to use the "splice" method to reset the bpm before major verses or places where it begins to drift in this case, as the drift seems to be very inconsistent even across the source material. Some weird production stuff going on there.
toara_fict
OMG... ;___________;
davidminh0111
Oh no!
A ranked beatmap got disqualified :(
Mini Gaunt

Ephemeral wrote:

In Skylish's defense, the original full-length Ishukan track is absolutely fucked as far as timing goes as well, so there's no error on his part from attempting to approximate it. We just need to use the "splice" method to reset the bpm before major verses or places where it begins to drift in this case, as the drift seems to be very inconsistent even across the source material. Some weird production stuff going on there.
Did Skylish make the cut himself or was a TV-size cut made by someone else? Because the cut may have exasterbated the timing issues in the full length song.

Besides that, because the original track has timing issues, Is Skylish necessarily wrong in his strange 3/16 timing if the source material has correspondingly terrible timing?

Regardless I think the culmination of all the timing issues with the song ACCIDENTALLY abuse the pp system. Yes it is a clear abuse of the pp system but it isn't intentional by anyone involved.
Bonsai
timing is a happy thing

@BPM: To me, pishifat's timing (not the one Raiden posted) seems mostly better than Skylish's, I still don't think it's 100% perfect as a few beats still sounds slightly late to me, but they seem more neglegible than a few beats sounding more early in Skylish's.

@snapping: Even with Skylish's timing (which is earlier than pishi's in pmuch every spot) around half the vocals or more would sound late to me if they were snapped to 1/6 too, so I find 3/16 to be more accurate on every level. 1/6 can work perfectly fine as simplification (so don't tell Pho to redo everything in their map lol), but if Skylish wants it to be more precise I'm completely on their side.
Of course I'm not a Taiko-person and didn't really know how broken your pp-system is until now, so that aspect isn't for me to judge really, though I'd personally find it weird to avoid accuracy just for the sake of formulas that might be changed any time(?).

now to cut myself. φ(^ω^*)ノ✂


On a sidenote, none of this would be a problem if you mapped this way better version of the song too 8-)8-)8-)

 
forelych
nice ranked -> updated
ts8zs
https://puu.sh/xbxOH/7d6494b3d2.mp3
maybe this mp3 better,idk,for offset 580

no,this song's vocal is a mess at all
I prefer to flow the drums because some song's vocal have a little bit early so that when it could sound clearly when drum hits.
Joe Castle

Greenshell wrote:

Drama in a taiko thread \:D/
since this got unranked, is there any reason to have "ravioli" in tags other than for the meme?
and yeah about the timing you should gather more opinions if you're still willing to push this forward
but ravioli ravioli, please dont lewd the dragon loli
tatatat
o no!
World Fraction
........... is all i have to say
Topic Starter
Skylish
Quick reply to everything as what you guys mentioned WAS PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED A LOT IN TAIKO WORLD.

tl;dr Nothing is changed now. Here's the compiled timing stuff .osz https://puu.sh/xcnLk/c474a4615e.osz

@Epher

It is very disappointing for anyone who DQ/unrank a map without proper investigation or concrete proof. You mentioned NO WORDS about my own timing's accuracy and its fitness to the music itself. Your (other modders' as well) strongest arguement is just: 1/6 fits the musical theory and basically the majority (99.99%) of swing-tempo music should share this common sense. Repeatedly to say this every single time when whoever say that 1/6 is correct: This music IS OUGHT TO BE 1/6, but it is NOT 1/6 (check the content below). The most impt point is that: I would not have this going for ranked if I was not even sure whether my own timing and snappings are correct, and 99.99% of the modders show less respect to my work and effort given there and start blaming for wrong snappings and BPMs without their own tries, outputs, and proper judges on my timing.

If anyone who does not check the whole spread, you should look the shortlist below before you start typing anything:

> There's 12 ms difference between 1/6 (3/18) and 3/16 snaps, mentioned before when I replied to Nardo.

> BPM is not constant BPM=108 judged by two timing programme by me and Gezo in the previous DQ stage already. (You can try BPM=108 and scroll to the last few seconds, you can notice the timing is off)

> I tried splicing the sections with BPM=108 and I find that the notes there are not as consistent as my own version.

> At THE VERY VERY VERY BEGINNING STAGE, I testplayed Pho's Ishukan and I had already figured that something went wrong with snappings. There were some delays on the vocal and instrumental parts. With enough testing (including using only 1/6, mixing 1/6+3/16, mixing 1/4+3/16, using only 3/16, using only 3/16+5/16), I got my answer: the one you see right now. (To whom may blame me for mapping PP, go check your ears before you even think of it since this is an extreme serious insult to a mapper, not only me.)

Mapping something OUGHT TO BE RIGHT TO FIT COMMON SENSES but IT ACTUALLY GOES AGAINST THE MUSIC is not acceptable for me. 3/16 is technically not hard to play which is a well compromised option already.

** Having a map with decent timed setting UNRANK/DQ is extremely disgusting WHEN the reason behind is that: 3/16 is weird and it is not accepted by the general so it is not fine. I mean seriously, did you check my own settings there? Was that wrong? Was that inaccurate? Was that unrankable? Was that off?

In case you think that mappers should follow the common sense rather than following the music, and unless the BPM or snappings are changed, the map would not be back in QF section, I would rather have it graved since this is my baseline when no one can prove me wrong.

@ Raiden/ Pishi

Thanks for your inputs! I checked there and this was done in my mapping process already as mentioned above. The swinging rhythm should be consistently 'irregular', i.e. the no. of red timing point is 1 and the snapping stuff could be solved outside the STREOTYPED 1/6 max. grid.

I have to agree that offset=568 is better than 562 (mine), it is better indeed (also worked in my case of BPM=107.96). Sadly to say, snappings are still 3/16, no change at all.

[]

In conclusion, 3/16 hitting accurately causes more or less problem in game play but 1/6 does create a delayed feeling in every swinging rhythms there no matter if you can feel that, I can. Nothing is changed.
Alchyr
random input

playing the map, it doesn't feel noticably off.

The only real issue is that the taiko star rating system results in extreme inflation when objects are snapped weirdly.
Is there a reason that this can't be changed?
Surono

Bonsai wrote:

timing is a happy thing

now to cut myself. φ(^ω^*)ノ✂


On a sidenote, none of this would be a problem if you mapped this way better version of the song too 8-)8-)8-)

 
8bit <3 3
yea
the map played perfectly fine in my eyes, I am surprised this got "deranked" out of all maps
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