That is the whole purpose of the modding scene: to have discussions and provide feedback for a map. Even more during Qualified period.
maybe they hates alien.. or italien...toara_fict wrote:
re qf gratz :3
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───▄▄██▌█ BEEP BEEP red votes from haters AGAIN
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Why many red votes? So sad ;__;
toara_fict wrote:
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───▄▄██▌█ BEEP BEEP red votes from haters AGAIN
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Why many red votes? So sad ;__;
From players and mappers' view, at the very least I believe that the BPM should not be 107.96.ARGENTINE DREAM wrote:
Having said this I would like the mapper, nominator and players in general to state their opinions.
I strongly agree with you. To be honest, the last difficulty far from being 5* seems 3* and maybe a few more decimals. This is pure pp farming. And these things only generate that there are players with more ranking than they deserve. Also the bpm is inaccurate.ARGENTINE DREAM wrote:
I decided to post in here after a long chat with Skylish regarding my opinion over a Disqus post where I stated that this map doesn't fit the quality standards to be a ranked map.
My main concern was that this was a map intended to grind PP easily, and it is clear now, that wasn't considered in any stage of the mapping process since I understood Skylish point.
The main problem is that this is a map with an odd time snap that makes SR calculation fail miserably at its job. Basically, if this map is ranked, then anyone can use odd time snaps to make pp rain rankable maps and therefore, that will support the idea that grinding pp easy is better than having fun and playing quality maps.
Skylish stated that he is actually convinced that the song use "3/16" snap, which, to any musician put there is impossible to reproduce consciously... He tried to mark human interpretation as must as possible, but that at the cost of expecting players to copy these flaws as something precise, and that's actually anti-musical.
Rhythm games are based on rhythm, therefore rhythm theory is important to take into consideration. I think this kind of time snap wouldn't ever happen in any official chart from professional rhythm games.
When I asked Skylish he told me "this song is uncommon, it doesn't fit musical standards, it is an alien song" ... And I think that's wrong: This is a generic medium-paced swing song... That in music theory is represented in a rhythm of 16thnote-8thnote triplets, which are the equivalent to osu!grid's 1/6.
I liked the map, but I would like it more if it was correctly snapped to the intended timing, just like a quality standard should be. In this case, that's 1/6.
I also noted that the BPM is kinda odd as well, since the map's got 107.96 BPM, and the song is actually made by a DAW software with perfect timing and it's exactly 108 bpm.
Here I have the two harder diffs snapped to 1/6 and at 108 bpm so you can check them:
https://puu.sh/x88Gs/b00e8242c4.rar (not the same link I left on disqus because I haven't corrected bpm in those)
Why are some vocal notes that are left out of the grid... Well, probably the producer forgot to heavily quantize the mix in the end or something like that, but you can't try to emulate accurately these human flaws, because the actual player hand is what produce these at the gameplay.
Skylish told me that the song is intended to be in "3/16" since everything was so concise in that span... So he asked me to take some proof into the matter.
I took the time to download the actual instrumetal (off-vocal) version of the song so you can see that the instrumental is snapped correctly to 1/6 (even the synth that does the same melodic line as the vocals).
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/653015 (not playable, just to listen to the rhythm and analyze in the editor)
I regret not having been able to discuss this matter in the early stages of modding, I know what Skylish must be feeling when someone criticizes his map like this, but I still think this is necessary for the community in general.
Having said this I would like the mapper, nominator and players in general to state their opinions.
That's not something you can decide on your own.Skylish wrote:
No action will be further taken as the arguements above are still invalid:
jack1817 wrote:
so it would be nonsense if the music creator decided to type in 107.96 bpm instead of 108 bpm
un-plugged wrote:
Also the bpm is inaccurate.
I did a check with the program I've been using to calculate precise BPM since 2005 (yes, I made my first notecharts back then) and it said that the song was 108.00 BPM... Still BPM decimals are something that happens when the producer makes the desicion deliberately (really, really rare, as Jack stated before) or when the conversion between the CD track and the mp3 file obtained from that varies the sample rate (happens from time on time), having said that that's still a chance, and I'll do proper manual BPM calculation to check this... Still... The BPM value is the least important thing in my concern about this beatmap and it doesn't change the importance of the other points.Skylish wrote:
> BPM is not stable 108. Check the very last few seconds you will figure that the notes are shifted significantly.
There's no 3/16 or 1/6 or whathever you want to call it... You check the waveform and then 1/6 is not precise. You still check the waveform at "3/16" and it is still not actually precise, so there goes your point... This song is not beyond common sense, it's just a generic midtempo-swing song, where the swing time is meant to be represented as as secuence of 8th then 16th note triplet per 8th note (osu!grid 1/6) this has always been done that way in rhythm game notecharting to assure a quality standard. The odd timing is the result of humanization, and therefore should not be taken on account when placing notes in a chart that is meant to be read as a musical score.Skylish wrote:
> In Instrumental version, 3/16 is even clearer without the vocal. Sorry to say so again, this is beyond any common musical sense.
That's what the some of the mappers I respect (and also other players) told me when they asked them opinions about this beatmap. I want to believe on your words because sincerely I really don't mean to harm you with any of this, I think this is wrong and therefore should be spoken of.Skylish wrote:
> This map is not created for PP. This is a very serious accuse without any solid and concrete proof by stating that my timing is wrong.
What is wrong on wanting the people who have to check the quality of beatmaps do their work properly?Surono wrote:
a rhythm game
woah what year is this againEphemeral wrote:
Due to the aforementioned issues and their severity and potential impact on play, this set has been unranked and will not return to qualified status until its timing and snapping issues have been fixed and verified by no less than three people.
Scores that have already been set will be lost.
ARGENTINE DREAM wrote:
The main problem is that this is a map with an odd time snap that makes SR calculation fail miserably at its job. Basically, if this map is ranked, then anyone can use odd time snaps to make pp rain rankable maps and therefore, that will support the idea that grinding pp easy is better than having fun and playing quality maps.
isn't this a hint that the star rating formula should be looked into?Ephemeral wrote:
It also, as ARGENTINE DREAM states, shaves more than a 1.3 stars off the map's overall difficulty as calculated by the score processor.
That is hugely significant.
568,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
11695,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
49485,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
76160,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
87264,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
Did Skylish make the cut himself or was a TV-size cut made by someone else? Because the cut may have exasterbated the timing issues in the full length song.Ephemeral wrote:
In Skylish's defense, the original full-length Ishukan track is absolutely fucked as far as timing goes as well, so there's no error on his part from attempting to approximate it. We just need to use the "splice" method to reset the bpm before major verses or places where it begins to drift in this case, as the drift seems to be very inconsistent even across the source material. Some weird production stuff going on there.
but ravioli ravioli, please dont lewd the dragon loliGreenshell wrote:
Drama in a taiko thread \:D/
since this got unranked, is there any reason to have "ravioli" in tags other than for the meme?
and yeah about the timing you should gather more opinions if you're still willing to push this forward
8bit <3 3Bonsai wrote:
timing is a happy thing
now to cut myself. φ(^ω^*)ノ✂
On a sidenote, none of this would be a problem if you mapped this way better version of the song too
yeah it was unexpected to seeyea wrote:
the map played perfectly fine in my eyes, I am surprised this got "deranked" out of all maps