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Chorogons - Ishukan Communication (TV Size) [Ta...

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Lumenite-
Short, sweet, and to the point-

The 3/16 snaps are legitimate from what I can hear, 25% playback actually has the notes landing right on the vocals (for the most part).

Don't see a reason to DQ this for 1/16 snapping if it's accurate, other than if it is in violation of the RC in one way or another.

Let's move on, yeah it's a pp farm but it's accurate.

Gratz on 2nd qualify tho Skylish.
World Fraction
Hardest diff name should be Commonication, or Draconic get it? Cuz they're dragons XDDDDDDD
Niko-nyan
Hello, i am passing by to check the snapping

00:00:735 - It's too early to be placed here, it should be on 1/6 snap
00:01:013 - ; 00:01:291 - ; 00:01:569 ; for example, and many more on this map ......

this might be a worse one but please try with all of the snap divisor on the editor, which one is the best snap to go.
Topic Starter
Skylish

Niko-nyan wrote:

Hello, i am passing by to check the snapping

00:00:735 - It's too early to be placed here, it should be on 1/6 snap
00:01:013 - ; 00:01:291 - ; 00:01:569 ; for example, and many more on this map ......

this might be a worse one but please try with all of the snap divisor on the editor, which one is the best snap to go.
Would you mind tracing back the thread before asking the same question/ concern about 3/16 and 1/6 snaps?

I, for sure, did try and use 1/6 to map this music at the first time, even though I was already doubt about it in Pho's Ishukan. After the first trial of mapping, I spotted that the notes were all hit TOO LATE with my bare ear.

Later, with certain mods, some modders pointed that there're some unsnapped issues, then I re-checked them until Surono's bubble, I figured that the rhythm is ALL in 3/16 NOT 1/6. You may wonder: how do you know? I can only answer: I hear that 3/16 is hitting the music (instrumental part) concretely.

All to all, the best, correct, and accurate snap is 3/16.
Surono
I belive all synth or something like instrument are 1/16 but yeah vocal is late or idk... niko just pointout 1 to me but really if theres many 1/6, niko could point out them and can be discussed more. but really its about consistency snapping in this map.. lets put this quote:

maziari1105 wrote:

Taiko is a rhythm game, not a sequencer imo.
keks
zigizigiefe
That's why Taiko SR system is garbage.Potential fast patterns (such as 1/8 doublets) or complex snapping (3/4,1/3,3/16 etc.) = High SR (That's what we call "free pp")
Also nice song choice Sky,I love it~
Niko-nyan

Surono wrote:

I belive all synth or something like instrument are 1/16 but yeah vocal is late or idk... niko just pointout 1 to me but really if theres many 1/6, niko could point out them and can be discussed more. but really its about consistency snapping in this map..
click here for all the timing
Current timings are on 1/6 (which should be on 1/6 to be accurate and solid)
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Most of this timings are snapped correctly for my bare ears with speakers and somehow you followed vocal too in this song. The synthesizer is following their vocals. Those 1/16s don't have any sense for me since they are too early to be placed to your timing atm.

we might need to discuss it more and more as Surono told before.

I know there are some pro and contra between every arguments.

edit : 2nd reason, why does a composer make a weird snapping tho like your current snappng while 1/6 is solid one?
Surono
wa.... but depends mapper, the majority are 1/16 but really you want 1/6 them follow too as consistency? idk, its just like a optional for this map. vocal are just 2nd to follow but majority are 1/16 imo. thats I wanted to say, missunderstanding orz

after I checkd until 00:02:414 - I started to stop here. it was too far.. we mapped for music, not vocal or noise or idk. it still optional
lu ngecheck semua beneran????? those instrument are 1/16.. even vocal are not consistent/correctly as 1/6 or smh.

stop it, get some help.gif

singer = human, not music that made from composer.

edit:
now skylish said to me is about bpm timing, wow.. stop to pointout them niko... :'|
dem timing orz, bpm needs increased by 0.01

use transparent since its still discussed with others lul
Nardoxyribonucleic
Disqualified as per map creator's request to fix the timing.
Topic Starter
Skylish
> Confirmed that the correct BPM is about 107.958, I will round it off to 107.96

> Still, 3/16 is 3/16. The snapping is not 1/6 after a looooooooooooong debate.

I will fix them tmr, Re:Zero.

EDIT: It's not the faults of bub/qua BNs. It's my own fault.
Chromoxx
while this is DQed i guess we can open a discussion about the diffname too,
I don't see "alien" being contextually relevant here in any justifiable way.
Something like "Dragon" for instance would fit a lot better.
The association from ethnicities to aliens doesn't really make sense either, you might aswell name it "Mexican Inner Oni" or "Asian Inner Oni" then lol.
Topic Starter
Skylish
'shu' (種)= species --> Alien (not that 'Alien' in 1979)

It makes sense anyway. Those maidragons are from 'Isekai' too.

> I am tired of repeating my answer on 3/16 uses. Just listen to the music again with your equipment and your ears.
Arrival
this still doesn't make sense XD
Asagi Mutsuki
...i just don't really get how can you differentiate 3/16 and 1/6 with just our ears when they're just a few milliseconds apart
btw you kinda forgot to fix the bpm in oni
Topic Starter
Skylish

Arrival wrote:

this still doesn't make sense XD
This is my interpretation of the title and hence naming the top diff. It does not go against the RC at all. Stop winding it up, thanks.

cdhsausageboy wrote:

...i just don't really get how can you differentiate 3/16 and 1/6 with just our ears when they're just a few milliseconds apart
btw you kinda forgot to fix the bpm in oni
> There are 12 ms differences btw 3/16 and 1/6, but I can notice them in gameplay somehow, need not to say it's even in 25% speed in the Editor.

> The BPM in Oni was already fixed to 107.96, what do you mean :thinking: ?
Shirai-
Hello guys! So, Niko asked me abt this yesterday about my opinion regarding the 3/16 thing and my answer was 1/6.(yesterday)*edit
Earlier today he told me to peek at this discussion, and for some reason I decided to try to hear it once more since 3/16 is a very rare thing or idk.

I conclude that I am with 3/16 after hearing it at 25% and 50% speed. It does differ slightly but the "p"(emphasize) starts on 3/16. //I wonder how skylish gets that idea off the start

I am here just to make clear of my opinions.
Thank you.

Edit: when I said "p", I mean of the vocals, so we wouldnt need extra equipment to hear it
Surono
guys please stop about 1/6 haha

Skylish wrote:

not that 'Alien' in 1979
Lumenite-

Surono wrote:

guys please stop about 1/6 haha

Skylish wrote:

not that 'Alien' in 1979
big fat agree
Chromoxx
http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/maiddr ... cation.htm

song lyrics clearly relate to the anime, have nothing to do with aliens and even SPECIFICALLY mention dragons

sorry, but simple word association isn't going to cut it here
Topic Starter
Skylish
Change the title from Alien to Dragon.

I did not succumb to the psi accumulated so far, but it seems 99.99% of the community cannot get my logic, so I tried a bit to fit your common senses.
然後我諗返起我之前講過D野又預言成功,「越淵博越膚淺」。
Ozu
Dragoni
Thomas Papillon
Pls rank this map.I need pp :roll:
Surono
out theres still many pp maps that could be rank mores, in here.. just hell, with something complicated things to discus :|
_handholding

gavnono wrote:

Pls rank this map.I need pp :roll:
Surono
ok, when rerank it stylish.
let me know dem
Topic Starter
Skylish

Surono wrote:

ok, when rerank it stylish.
let me know dem


I am still waiting for Nardo ;w;

I will call you back when everything is fine and ready, Surono and Jona.
Jonarwhal
SPOILER
22:22 Skylish: hi, Doyak, do you have a couple of mintues now? 
22:23 Doyak: Sure
22:23 *Skylish is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1272994 Chorogons - Ishukan Communication(TV size)]
22:23 Skylish: It was DQed before, due to timing problem
22:24 Skylish: however, someone challenge the mapset with the snappings there
22:24 Skylish: The nominated BN would like to have QAT's confirmation about the snappings before they re-nominate
22:24 Skylish: would you mind take a look there?
22:27 Doyak: holy these snaps
22:29 Doyak: uhh
22:29 Doyak: I don't think this is something I can confirm
22:29 Doyak: QAT's don't DQ on their own anyway, so idk why the BN wants a QAT to confirm it
22:29 Doyak: better to ask some timing experts
22:30 Skylish: <-- I am also a timing expert, Gezo posted a reply in the thread, by proving that 3/16 is the correct snapping
22:30 Doyak: this snapping is so strange lol
22:30 Doyak: then it should be fine
22:30 Skylish: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/6071672
22:30 Skylish: see whether if you have some idea about it, after watching his 'proof'
22:31 Doyak: well, 1/6s are definitely too late
22:32 Doyak: that's the strange point, because I don't see a reason to compose a song with 3/16s, but I guess this works here
22:32 Skylish: I also have no idea why the hell does this song have 3/16
22:32 Skylish: oh my
22:32 Skylish: alright
22:32 Skylish: thanks for your reply
22:32 Doyak: usually swing songs are composed with 1/6s, this is very strange xD
22:33 Doyak: ur welcome
Surono
AlienForce™



bad educa-son demm - _- heww.. gai potentiel
zigizigiefe
DragonForce map when Sky
Just kidding, congratz <3
milr_
why 5.63*
Surono
bcus pp
Nardoxyribonucleic

Skylish wrote:

I am still waiting for Nardo ;w;
I was about to check your map... Sorry I was too busy to come earlier.

First of all, why are you using 1.6x as base slider velocity in all difficulties? 1.4x would be more appropriate to optimize the distance between notes. In addition, I would like to know your justification regarding the 1.3/1.4/1.4 SV increment for Muzukashii/Oni/Inner Oni respectively that results in elevated effective slider velocity throughout the map.

Concerning the query of snapping, I would say using 1/6 snaps are more accurate to accompany vocal spots like 00:00:747 - 00:01:025 - 00:01:303 - and many other similar ones. But as what Gezo mentioned, if you prefer following the instrument that appears before those vocals, 3/16 snaps would work. So it is up to you in this matter.
Surono
snap of this set are not 1/2 ~ 1/4 for overall and not really slow song so is good to use slider velocity 1.6
it makes good separated gap on pattern since is 3/16 snap

up to the mapper, might be to apply slider velocity spread from Kantan ~ Inner Oni = 1.4 | 1.4 | 1.5 | 1.6 | 1.6
Topic Starter
Skylish

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

Skylish wrote:

I am still waiting for Nardo ;w;
I was about to check your map... Sorry I was too busy to come earlier.

First of all, why are you using 1.6x as base slider velocity in all difficulties? 1.4x would be more appropriate to optimize the distance between notes. In addition, I would like to know your justification regarding the 1.3/1.4/1.4 SV increment for Muzukashii/Oni/Inner Oni respectively that results in elevated effective slider velocity throughout the map.

> base SV=1.6 in relatively low BPM song (BPM<120).

> The increments of SV in the higher difficulties show the differences of intensity. In Muzukashii, very few 3/16s are used. The usage of it gradually increased along with Oni and Inner Oni. SV 1.4x (with base SV 1.6x)can provide the most comfy spacing of 3/16 notes imo.

Concerning the query of snapping, I would say using 1/6 snaps are more accurate to accompany vocal spots like 00:00:747 - 00:01:025 - 00:01:303 - and many other similar ones. But as what Gezo mentioned, if you prefer following the instrument that appears before those vocals, 3/16 snaps would work. So it is up to you in this matter.

> As said many times in this thread or in #taiko, timings of vocal and instruments are actually on 3/16. It is audible clearly.
Thanks for leaving concerns.
Nardoxyribonucleic

Skylish wrote:

> base SV=1.6 in relatively low BPM song (BPM<120). We do not have such a rule or agreement in RC about the use of 1.6x base SV but a recommendation of standardized 1.4x for optimal spacing and quantity in play field according to song BPM.

> The increments of SV in the higher difficulties show the differences of intensity. In Muzukashii, very few 3/16s are used. The usage of it gradually increased along with Oni and Inner Oni. SV 1.4x (with base SV 1.6x)can provide the most comfy spacing of 3/16 notes imo. As mentioned above, it is unnecessary to use ESV=2.08/2.24 combinations given the BPM of the song itself is slow. Also if you prefer a gradual increase, how would you explain the SV gap between Futsuu and Muzukashii?

> As said many times in this thread or in #taiko, timings of vocal and instruments are actually on 3/16. It is audible clearly. I would like to clarify that vocals are in fact late if you choose 3/16 snaps with 25% playback rate.
Topic Starter
Skylish

Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:

Skylish wrote:

> base SV=1.6 in relatively low BPM song (BPM<120). We do not have such a rule or agreement in RC about the use of 1.6x base SV but a recommendation of standardized 1.4x for optimal spacing and quantity in play field according to song BPM.

< AYY 1.6x SV base looks good right here.

> The increments of SV in the higher difficulties show the differences of intensity. In Muzukashii, very few 3/16s are used. The usage of it gradually increased along with Oni and Inner Oni. SV 1.4x (with base SV 1.6x)can provide the most comfy spacing of 3/16 notes imo. As mentioned above, it is unnecessary to use ESV=2.08/2.24 combinations given the BPM of the song itself is slow. Also if you prefer a gradual increase, how would you explain the SV gap between Futsuu and Muzukashii?

< Kantan/ Futsuu = no 3/16
< Muzukashii = a few 3/16
< Oni = frequent 3/16
< Inner Oni= a lot of 3/16

Those spacing and scrolling speed in Oni and Inner Oni should be fast enough for the sake of readability.

> As said many times in this thread or in #taiko, timings of vocal and instruments are actually on 3/16. It is audible clearly. I would like to clarify that vocals are in fact late if you choose 3/16 snaps with 25% playback rate.
< In 3/16 case =0, 1/6 (3/18)= +12 ms

- 00:00:735 - / 00:00:747 -

1/6 is even later, as mentioned by Gezo. Repeatedly speaking, 1/6 is late, 3/16 hits on time.
zigizigiefe
Another discussion incoming, I hope it doesn't..
Raiden
That is the whole purpose of the modding scene: to have discussions and provide feedback for a map. Even more during Qualified period.
toara_fict
re qf gratz :3


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───▄▄██▌█ BEEP BEEP red votes from haters AGAIN
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Why many red votes? So sad ;__;
Surono
rhythm is music, vocal is voice. yeah its rhythm game remember xd

toara_fict wrote:

re qf gratz :3


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───▄▄██▌█ BEEP BEEP red votes from haters AGAIN
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Why many red votes? So sad ;__;
maybe they hates alien.. or italien...
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