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Geometrical and square jumps

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58
1Alone
193 posts
Joined December 2015
Topic Starter
1Alone
Is there like any tricks on how to read these kinds of jumps? (squares, half of octagons, octagon, hexagon (basically any polygons)
Whenever the shape is like a triangle or anything that crosses the middle of the shape I'm doing totally fine, but when I do jumps for the outline of a square/polygons my hands tense and it seems that I over-moved/under-moved it all the time. I can tolerate mid range jump for these kinds of shape with missing probably 1 or 2 note but when it becomes too short/long

1Alone wrote:

my hands tense and it seems that I over-moved/under-moved it all the time
^ This happens. Is there any tricks in reading them?
Infevo
463 posts
Joined October 2014
Infevo
No tricks. What you see is what you aim at and that's basically it.
7ambda
2,560 posts
Joined January 2015
7ambda
Yeah, stop tensing and relax.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Read the HOW DO I GET BETTER sticky, it has something on this.
1Alone
193 posts
Joined December 2015
Topic Starter
1Alone
Oh ok, I really thought there was something you had to do when you face these kinds of jumps lol.

Endaris wrote:

Read the HOW DO I GET BETTER sticky, it has something on this.
Thanks for the direction!
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie

1Alone wrote:

but when I do jumps for the outline of a square/polygons
Don't think of the shape. Think about the individual segments. Think about each individual jump. Read each individual jump. Aim each jump individually, not as part of a shape.
1Alone
193 posts
Joined December 2015
Topic Starter
1Alone

Sayorie wrote:

1Alone wrote:

but when I do jumps for the outline of a square/polygons
Don't think of the shape. Think about the individual segments. Think about each individual jump. Read each individual jump. Aim each jump individually, not as part of a shape.
^ I tried doing this and I can catch probably up to 3 beats, but then I started to get off sync because my eyes were to slow to track them lol, + I get tensed right after that 3 beats (I don't know wtf is wrong with me seriously). But yeah, I try to play some more geometrical maps. Do you have any maps that's good to train your reading for these shapes?
7ambda
2,560 posts
Joined January 2015
7ambda
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/12483
NixXSkate
785 posts
Joined February 2011
NixXSkate
Think of each 2 points as like a line, like 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, etc. If you're still having trouble, try to switch the line up, like 1, 2-3, 4-5, 6-7, etc. Normally, I try to think of the more vertical lines when it comes to squares more than the horizontal ones, for example, a square like:
1 2
4 3
I would prefer to read it as 1, 2↓3, 4 instead of 1→2, 3←4.
1Alone
193 posts
Joined December 2015
Topic Starter
1Alone

NixXSkate wrote:

Think of each 2 points as like a line, like 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, etc. If you're still having trouble, try to switch the line up, like 1, 2-3, 4-5, 6-7, etc. Normally, I try to think of the more vertical lines when it comes to squares more than the horizontal ones, for example, a square like:
1 2
4 3
I would prefer to read it as 1, 2↓3, 4 instead of 1→2, 3←4.
How about half polygons? How do you read them? like 1-2, then 3-4 and goes on? they usually involve 5-8 beats. And where do you look? the whole thing, the whole 1-2 jumps, then 3-4 jumps or the next beat only?

Anyway if you guys can keep providing me with some more geometrical beatmaps that would be great. Replaying the whole thing of a song just to get to the geometrical part is a huge waste of time lol
NixXSkate
785 posts
Joined February 2011
NixXSkate
Just think of them as lines and switch the line up if you're still having problems. If you have issues with both ways then you're not focusing enough on the current line you're playing and you're thinking about your aim too far ahead. This is usually the problem if you're not used to lower AR or higher density playing. How I view line patterns for each different polygon won't help everyone because the specific notes I have more trouble with may be different than the ones you have more trouble with, or may differ depending on the size of the polygon.
N0thingSpecial
2,355 posts
Joined November 2015
N0thingSpecial
I just snap the shit out of it, stay sexy and snap every single note, treat each note as a single jump.
1Alone
193 posts
Joined December 2015
Topic Starter
1Alone

NixXSkate wrote:

This is usually the problem if you're not used to lower AR or higher density playing.
Damn you really pinpoint my problem there lol. Its true that I'm no longer used to playing low AR, any AR below 8 I just HR/DT the f*ck out of it. Is this bad? Should I really get used to lower AR's? For density yeah there's not really much I can do about it unless playing more.

N0thingSpecial wrote:

I just snap the shit out of it, stay sexy and snap every single note, treat each note as a single jump.
I'd say you and your mouse is sexy ;) . When the jumps is short with a slow AR and dense as f*ck I make curves, don't know why tho. It's how my brain works lol

F1r3tar wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/12483
Thanks, this ones are the type I'm looking for. Too bad it's hard to find maps that uses these kinds of mapping techniques. Do you have some more?
Infevo
463 posts
Joined October 2014
Infevo
It's much easier to snap with tablet actually for 2 reasons. For one, there for each point on your screen there is a point on your tablet. It's just a matter of muscle memory in that regard. And for the other, you can tap/snap right onto the circles and stop the pen's momentum while mice are much harder to control in that regard. You'll get it down the more you play. Thinking in patterns isn't necessary, if useful at all. At a certain point, you won't be thinking much at all anyway...
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie

Infevo wrote:

while mice are much harder to control in that regard.
Depends on your settings. My mouse is set to 250 dpi and it feels snappier than how the tablet feels. However sometimes it's too snappy that I can't adjust when I'm about to mis-aim, unlike the freedom of movement you have with the tablet.
Playing above 1200dpi and my aim goes literally everywhere.
Infevo
463 posts
Joined October 2014
Infevo

Sayorie wrote:

Infevo wrote:

while mice are much harder to control in that regard.
Depends on your settings. My mouse is set to 250 dpi and it feels snappier than how the tablet feels. However sometimes it's too snappy that I can't adjust when I'm about to mis-aim, unlike the freedom of movement you have with the tablet.
Playing above 1200dpi and my aim goes literally everywhere.
all i said is that mice are much heavier and due have more momentum during quick turns. makes it more diffucult to snap even with control mouse pads. pens can be hovered 100% and still controlled much easier. by tapping onto the tablet you can eliminate even the little remaining momentum. it's just not comparable to mouse play.

telling merely about your dpi is meaningless btw since there are tons of correlating settings like resolution, your system's aim acceleration and speed, pixel skipping, kind of surface, laser quality, osu!'s cursor speed and others. there are people who use 600dpi and others who play @3200dpi and both have the same effective mouse sensitivity.
Nattsun
537 posts
Joined September 2016
Nattsun

1Alone wrote:

I tried doing this and I can catch probably up to 3 beats, but then I started to get off sync because my eyes were to slow to track them lol, + I get tensed right after that 3 beats (I don't know wtf is wrong with me seriously). But yeah, I try to play some more geometrical maps. Do you have any maps that's good to train your reading for these shapes?
Focus on the first 2 notes and the rest will come by itself. Snap to every note! From what I see, people who struggle with those jumps don't snap fast enough and their cursor or click hand gets out of sync with the beat. Every time you are not fast enough you'll end up "chasing" the beat, that's probably the reason why you can't keep up with more than 3 notes cuz you are slowing down from note to note.

PS: There are some practice maps with gemetrical jumps by the way.
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie

Infevo wrote:

all i said is that mice are much heavier and due have more momentum during quick turns. makes it more diffucult to snap even with control mouse pads. pens can be hovered 100% and still controlled much easier. by tapping onto the tablet you can eliminate even the little remaining momentum. it's just not comparable to mouse play.

telling merely about your dpi is meaningless btw since there are tons of correlating settings like resolution, your system's aim acceleration and speed, pixel skipping, kind of surface, laser quality, osu!'s cursor speed and others. there are people who use 600dpi and others who play @3200dpi and both have the same effective mouse sensitivity.
Ehhh no. Starting from mouse was easier compared to tablet, and mouse was easier to control when I started playing. However I stuck with tablet because of the freedom of movement. Why mouse is more stable? Physics. A wide area of support and low height makes it incredibly stable but in exchange has a low freedom of movement.
Nattsun
537 posts
Joined September 2016
Nattsun

Sayorie wrote:

Infevo wrote:

all i said is that mice are much heavier and due have more momentum during quick turns. makes it more diffucult to snap even with control mouse pads. pens can be hovered 100% and still controlled much easier. by tapping onto the tablet you can eliminate even the little remaining momentum. it's just not comparable to mouse play.

telling merely about your dpi is meaningless btw since there are tons of correlating settings like resolution, your system's aim acceleration and speed, pixel skipping, kind of surface, laser quality, osu!'s cursor speed and others. there are people who use 600dpi and others who play @3200dpi and both have the same effective mouse sensitivity.
Ehhh no. Starting from mouse was easier compared to tablet, and mouse was easier to control when I started playing. However I stuck with tablet because of the freedom of movement. Why mouse is more stable? Physics. A wide area of support and low height makes it incredibly stable but in exchange has a low freedom of movement.
May I quote Angelsim? "If you think mouse is equal to tablet f*** you." 8-)
Yolshka
669 posts
Joined April 2014
Yolshka
You can try the highest diff on this : https://osu.ppy.sh/s/17852

I don't know about the shapes but I belive that the movement is not as intuitive so maybe it'll pose a threat, but still easy enough.
Give it a go, maybe share results.
1Alone
193 posts
Joined December 2015
Topic Starter
1Alone

Cirno9 wrote:

1Alone wrote:

I tried doing this and I can catch probably up to 3 beats, but then I started to get off sync because my eyes were to slow to track them lol, + I get tensed right after that 3 beats (I don't know wtf is wrong with me seriously). But yeah, I try to play some more geometrical maps. Do you have any maps that's good to train your reading for these shapes?
Focus on the first 2 notes and the rest will come by itself. Snap to every note! From what I see, people who struggle with those jumps don't snap fast enough and their cursor or click hand gets out of sync with the beat. Every time you are not fast enough you'll end up "chasing" the beat, that's probably the reason why you can't keep up with more than 3 notes cuz you are slowing down from note to note.

PS: There are some practice maps with gemetrical jumps by the way.
I tried but after the 3 beats I kinda aim it a little bit far off if I snap it. And probably right after I missed the 4th one is where I start to tense lol
Thank you! I'll try searching for it.

Cirno9 wrote:

May I quote Angelsim? "If you think mouse is equal to tablet f*** you." 8-)
^ Lol I agree. My mouse sometimes reaches the edge of my mousepad even though I started a song with the cursor in the center of screen with my mouse at the centre of my mousepad, and before I knew it my cursor is on the center while my mouse is on the edge of my mousepad (<probably because I play with both wrist and arm though lol. NO, I DON'T HAVE ANY ACCELERATION ON). I'm sure tablet doesn't have these kinds of problems

Yolshka wrote:

You can try the highest diff on this : https://osu.ppy.sh/s/17852

I don't know about the shapes but I belive that the movement is not as intuitive so maybe it'll pose a threat, but still easy enough.
Give it a go, maybe share results.
Haha yeah I can pass them easily, but that half octagons thingy in that song is really blocking me from fcing this song lol. There's one with 4 beats and 7 beats in there. But thanks! this'll be a great practice maps too. If you have some more of these please share :D
Nattsun
537 posts
Joined September 2016
Nattsun

1Alone wrote:

Cirno9 wrote:

May I quote Angelsim? "If you think mouse is equal to tablet f*** you." 8-)
^ Lol I agree. My mouse sometimes reaches the edge of my mousepad even though I started a song with the cursor in the center of screen with my mouse at the centre of my mousepad, and before I knew it my cursor is on the center while my mouse is on the edge of my mousepad (<probably because I play with both wrist and arm though lol. NO, I DON'T HAVE ANY ACCELERATION ON). I'm sure tablet doesn't have these kinds of problems.
That's called mousedrifting by the way. The lower the DPI the more your mouse drifts away. Using your arm actually helps, but you'll still drift.

I doubt that tablet has no downsides, but the locket area and no drifting is enough reason for me to switch to tablet soon.
Kyrari
789 posts
Joined June 2013
Kyrari

Cirno9 wrote:

I doubt that tablet has no downsides, but the locket area and no drifting is enough reason for me to switch to tablet soon.
rip yet another mouse player :(
1Alone
193 posts
Joined December 2015
Topic Starter
1Alone

Cirno9 wrote:

That's called mousedrifting by the way. The lower the DPI the more your mouse drifts away. Using your arm actually helps, but you'll still drift.

I doubt that tablet has no downsides, but the locket area and no drifting is enough reason for me to switch to tablet soon.
Oh so this thing is apparently a thing, I thought I'm the only one with this problem lol.

VanillaSandvich wrote:

Cirno9 wrote:

I doubt that tablet has no downsides, but the locket area and no drifting is enough reason for me to switch to tablet soon.
rip yet another mouse player :(
"We're gonna miss you Cirno9, you've put up a good fight"
#mousemasterrace
Nattsun
537 posts
Joined September 2016
Nattsun

1Alone wrote:

Cirno9 wrote:

That's called mousedrifting by the way. The lower the DPI the more your mouse drifts away. Using your arm actually helps, but you'll still drift.

I doubt that tablet has no downsides, but the locket area and no drifting is enough reason for me to switch to tablet soon.
Oh so this thing is apparently a thing, I thought I'm the only one with this problem lol.
Every mouse player has to deal with it and there is no fix to it, you'll get used to it or tired of it.

VanillaSandvich wrote:

Cirno9 wrote:

I doubt that tablet has no downsides, but the locket area and no drifting is enough reason for me to switch to tablet soon.
rip yet another mouse player :(
"We're gonna miss you Cirno9, you've put up a good fight"
#mousemasterrace

I'm sorry to disappoint you :c

R.I.P. Cirno9 09/XX/2016-probably tomorrow
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie

Cirno9 wrote:

May I quote Angelsim? "If you think mouse is equal to tablet f*** you." 8-)
When did I say mouse is equal to tablet?
I just said that mouse is naturally snappier. 8-)
Infevo
463 posts
Joined October 2014
Infevo

Sayorie wrote:

I just said that mouse is naturally snappier. 8-)
Which is a false assertion and no argument. Can you turn a motorcycle quicker than an truck?
Why don't people use mice-like devices for drawing and writing if your assertion was right? Why do most top osu! players use tablet and not mouse when snapping is one of the most important aiming elements?
N0thingSpecial
2,355 posts
Joined November 2015
N0thingSpecial
This has got to be a misunderstanding of what define snappy movement, cause it's nearly impossible to type that out with a straight face.
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie

Infevo wrote:

Which is a false assertion and no argument.
Read again. I have stated my basis before.

Infevo wrote:

Why don't people use mice-like devices for drawing and writing if your assertion was right?
Because you don't really need to snap that much when drawing? Pen tablets are literally like pens for drawing. You are changing the premise.

Infevo wrote:

Why do most top osu! players use tablet and not mouse when snapping is one of the most important aiming elements?
Like I said before, the freedom of movement and perks of absolute positioning offered by the tablet is more favorable to most players.


lol you actually used those buzzwords like assertion and argument
Infevo
463 posts
Joined October 2014
Infevo
Read again. I have stated my basis before.
your "basis" is an opinion. a stupid one at that.


Because you don't really need to snap that much when drawing? Pen tablets are literally like pens for drawing. You are changing the premise.
more assertions which are false. of course, you need control when drawing and writing and the least amount of momentum so you can snap whenever you need to. again, just show me one person who can write in decent calligraphy as efficiently as someone with a pen, brush or pencil.

Like I said before, the freedom of movement and perks of absolute positioning offered by the tablet is more favorable to most players.
absolute positioning in combination with least amount of momentum so that you can snap with no effort at all is why tablet is being preferred. 'freedom of movement' doesn't really mean anything.

lol you actually used those buzzwords like assertion and argument
again, not an argument. and sure i will use these "buzzwords" (whatever that is supposed to mean). how else am i supposed to declare that you were not presenting an argument?
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie


Infevo wrote:

your "basis" is an opinion. a stupid one at that.
Hypocrisy. "Stupid" is also an opinion. You can't invalidate what I said.

Infevo wrote:

more assertions which are false. of course, you need control when drawing and writing and the least amount of momentum so you can snap whenever you need to. again, just show me one person who can write in decent calligraphy as efficiently as someone with a pen, brush or pencil.
Your statement above moves the discussion to external uses of the devices, and it's an entirely different topic.

"least amount of momentum so you can snap" is wrong. Momentum is mass x velocity, and given that the mass stays the same, you are implying that you need the least amount of velocity to snap.

I started discussing how the mouse feels snappier in certain settings and you presented your own argument disputing my claim. I respect that.
Quoting you from before,
makes it more diffucult to snap even with control mouse pads. pens can be hovered 100% and still controlled much easier. by tapping onto the tablet you can eliminate even the little remaining momentum. it's just not comparable to mouse play.
Assuming that "snapping" is how "angular" or "sharp" the change of movement is at a certain point, a larger inertia from the relatively heavier mouse inhibits more variable movement compared to the tablet. If this is the case, then it is up to the preference of the player to choose the more stable mouse or the more versatile and "free" pen tablet. This is science, so don't give me a purely subjective rebuttal.

There is a flaw in your follow-up however,

Infevo wrote:

telling merely about your dpi is meaningless btw since there are tons of correlating settings like resolution, your system's aim acceleration and speed, pixel skipping, kind of surface, laser quality, osu!'s cursor speed and others.
As it doesn't counter my claim at all.

Infevo wrote:

absolute positioning in combination with least amount of momentum so that you can snap with no effort at all is why tablet is being preferred. 'freedom of movement' doesn't really mean anything.
Freedom of movement in tablet means everything because there is no friction and normal force acting on the hovering pen unlike the mouse.
"least amount of momentum" wrong again

N0thingSpecial
2,355 posts
Joined November 2015
N0thingSpecial
I think the snap with no effort part is true but that also implies your movement is more susceptible external force which usually means that snapping from one circle to another is more shaky and unstable, which is very apparent in high bpm maps (keep in mind this has nothing to do with how good your aim is)
Sayorie
975 posts
Joined December 2014
Sayorie

N0thingSpecial wrote:

I think the snap with no effort part is true but that also implies your movement is more susceptible external force which usually means that snapping from one circle to another is more shaky and unstable, which is very apparent in high bpm maps (keep in mind this has nothing to do with how good your aim is)
That's my point, snapping using a movement with little resistance makes it shaky and unstable. I had this experience when I started playing with the tablet, and I resorted to hybrid hover and drag because snapping is hard when fully hovering. Mouse on the other hand moves in a straight line most of the time, and turns feel more angular.
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