1. Northward (5.82 stars, 656 notes)

Endaris wrote:

IRC

2017-04-28 21:20 AlexDark69: ACTION is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1269375 ginkiha - eastward]
2017-04-28 21:21 AlexDark69: NF LUL
2017-04-28 21:27 AlexDark69: hihi
2017-04-28 21:27 Endaris: okay
2017-04-28 21:27 Endaris: so
2017-04-28 21:27 Endaris: first thing
2017-04-28 21:27 Endaris: with SV and makroscopic view and stuff
2017-04-28 21:27 AlexDark69: makroscopic view?
2017-04-28 21:27 Endaris: macroscopic
2017-04-28 21:27 Endaris: like
2017-04-28 21:28 Endaris: how do parts relate to each other
2017-04-28 21:28 Endaris: the SVs you already got are not too bad but what I dislike a lot is how you don't vary your actual spacing
2017-04-28 21:29 Endaris: 00:06:023 (13,14,15,16,17,18,19) - streams like this
2017-04-28 21:29 Endaris: i feel like this is the calm part in relation to what comes after
2017-04-28 21:29 Endaris: but how the streams are mapped out, how the spacing of the jumps is
2017-04-28 21:29 Endaris: not different from the speedier parts like 00:16:024 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - 
2017-04-28 21:30 AlexDark69: ah ye
2017-04-28 21:30 AlexDark69: well I kind of started off really spaced
2017-04-28 21:30 Endaris: that is probably one of the mainpoint
2017-04-28 21:30 AlexDark69: then by the time I got to that bit I was like
2017-04-28 21:30 AlexDark69: I dont really want it to be super spaced
2017-04-28 21:30 Endaris: spacing on the one hand but on the other hand also how you actually map the patterns
2017-04-28 21:31 Endaris: a stream for a calm part is not always the best idea when it is 186bpm
2017-04-28 21:32 Endaris: idk, maybe replace 00:00:862 (5,6,7,8,9,10) -  with https://puu.sh/vzeiK/2e0ff23956.png
2017-04-28 21:32 Endaris: that also allows you to put more emphasis on the strong spots in that part
2017-04-28 21:32 Endaris: because the movement on such patterns is always more punctual than flowy
2017-04-28 21:33 Endaris: unlike with streams
2017-04-28 21:33 AlexDark69: hmmmmmm
2017-04-28 21:33 AlexDark69: I feel like that part in the song in particular fades into the song
2017-04-28 21:34 AlexDark69: so I wanted to have a stream where the sounds became stronger later on in the stream
2017-04-28 21:34 Endaris: rule of thumb is anyway: don't use streams right at the start
2017-04-28 21:34 AlexDark69: with a slider it doesnt really allow that
2017-04-28 21:34 Endaris: personally i usually need at least 10s before i got the speed of the map perfectly right
2017-04-28 21:34 Endaris: hm
2017-04-28 21:34 Endaris: don't look at each single note of the stream
2017-04-28 21:35 Endaris: it's impossible to listen to them that way when playing
2017-04-28 21:35 Endaris: you have to pay attention to the phrasing of the melody and figure out the most important points
2017-04-28 21:36 Endaris: if you take my example pattern: you could leave out all the notes on repeats and sliderends in the melody
2017-04-28 21:36 Endaris: and it would still have a shape that one can listen to
2017-04-28 21:36 Endaris: even more important for my proposal is, that 00:01:346 (1) - profits immensely from the previous slider repeating 2 times
2017-04-28 21:38 AlexDark69: 00:00:862 (5,6,7) -
2017-04-28 21:38 Endaris: what do you think
2017-04-28 21:38 AlexDark69: I changed it so that 7 was the repeating slider
2017-04-28 21:38 AlexDark69: ye because the melody is kinda done fading in from there
2017-04-28 21:38 AlexDark69: so it makes sense
2017-04-28 21:39 AlexDark69: 00:06:023 (13,14,15,16,17,18,19) -
2017-04-28 21:39 AlexDark69: I can do the same thing here
2017-04-28 21:39 Endaris: personally i always think in the way "what part of the music could be not there and it wouldn't suck"
2017-04-28 21:39 Endaris: yes
2017-04-28 21:40 Endaris: this is a bit inaccurate imo
2017-04-28 21:40 AlexDark69: tho rip blanket xd
2017-04-28 21:40 Endaris: 00:03:120 (2,3,4) - 
2017-04-28 21:40 Endaris: fuck blankets, this is ginkiha song
2017-04-28 21:40 Endaris: xd
2017-04-28 21:40 Endaris: it is more a double than a triple
2017-04-28 21:41 Endaris: and it also feels overpowered compared to 00:02:636 (7) - as it is right now
2017-04-28 21:41 AlexDark69: ah yea
2017-04-28 21:41 AlexDark69: for that pattern I kind of got confused
2017-04-28 21:41 AlexDark69: because I wasnt sure which to go for
2017-04-28 21:41 Endaris: would probably 00:03:281 (4,5) - make this into a slider
2017-04-28 21:41 AlexDark69: so I nicked cherry blossom's way of mapping that
2017-04-28 21:41 Endaris: to keep this easy to read and tap
2017-04-28 21:41 AlexDark69: he used 2 notes then a slider so I just did 3 notes instead
2017-04-28 21:42 Endaris: 00:03:926 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this needs some nerf too
2017-04-28 21:42 AlexDark69: Hmmmmmmmm
2017-04-28 21:42 AlexDark69: I kinda like that stream tho
2017-04-28 21:42 AlexDark69: just because it's not spaced
2017-04-28 21:43 AlexDark69: so it only requires tapping
2017-04-28 21:43 Endaris: hm
2017-04-28 21:43 Endaris: might be just me but i always feel emphasis more transmitted through tapping than anything else
2017-04-28 21:45 AlexDark69: Uhhhhhhhh
2017-04-28 21:46 AlexDark69: I could change it but I think the stream is involved in the build up of the song as much as it is the emphasis of those notes
2017-04-28 21:46 AlexDark69: it's like showing how the map builds up to when it drops and gets more intense
2017-04-28 21:46 Endaris: personally i think it suffices when you start the build up from here 00:07:797 - 
2017-04-28 21:48 AlexDark69: Hm
2017-04-28 21:48 AlexDark69: That is true
2017-04-28 21:49 Endaris: 00:11:023 (3,4,5) - 00:11:507 (7,8,9,10,1) - 00:12:152 (2,3,4,5,6) - these are all kind of inaccurate, at least one note not quite having a corresponding sound
2017-04-28 21:50 Endaris: 00:14:733 (2) - this is most likely not 1/4
2017-04-28 21:52 Endaris: oh well, depends i guess
2017-04-28 21:52 Endaris: what you listen to
2017-04-28 21:53 AlexDark69: 00:11:023 (3,4,5) - definitely inaccurate
2017-04-28 21:53 AlexDark69: 00:11:507 (7,8,9,10,1) - I dont see the same here
2017-04-28 21:53 Endaris: 00:17:152 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this is like whatever
2017-04-28 21:53 AlexDark69: 00:12:152 (2,3,4,5,6) - this is also inaccurate
2017-04-28 21:54 AlexDark69: hehe
2017-04-28 21:54 AlexDark69: I ignored a lot of sounds there
2017-04-28 21:54 AlexDark69: didnt even realise LUL
2017-04-28 21:55 Endaris: 00:18:765 (1,2,3) - also inaccurate
2017-04-28 21:55 Endaris: like
2017-04-28 21:55 Endaris: that is not cool
2017-04-28 21:56 AlexDark69: do you have this saved in like irc or something
2017-04-28 21:56 AlexDark69: if so post it after u finish so I can kudosu u
2017-04-28 21:56 Endaris: if i wasn't a nice guy i would say something like "did you even pay attention to the song?"
2017-04-28 21:56 AlexDark69: FeelsBadMan
2017-04-28 21:57 Endaris: xd
2017-04-28 21:57 Endaris: yes, but the point stands
2017-04-28 21:57 AlexDark69: fuck
2017-04-28 21:57 AlexDark69: that's obviously a slider
2017-04-28 21:57 AlexDark69: damn Im dumb
2017-04-28 21:57 Endaris: there aren't even any tricky snappings like in draconis that could make you trip
2017-04-28 21:58 Endaris: hmhm
2017-04-28 21:58 Endaris: i mean it is not easy to map a song like this
2017-04-28 21:59 AlexDark69: u could say that about pretty much any song tho tbf
2017-04-28 21:59 Endaris: but overall it needs a lot of love
2017-04-28 21:59 Endaris: no
2017-04-28 21:59 Endaris: mapping pop vs mapping ginkiha
2017-04-28 21:59 Endaris: well
2017-04-28 22:00 Endaris: what did i want to say again
2017-04-28 22:01 AlexDark69: 00:13:604 - fck
2017-04-28 22:01 AlexDark69: I mapped this right
2017-04-28 22:01 AlexDark69: but right before I used a triple
2017-04-28 22:01 AlexDark69: why me
2017-04-28 22:02 Endaris: 00:31:023 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18) - this is probably the only part in the map that I would let get away
2017-04-28 22:02 AlexDark69: :PogChamp:
2017-04-28 22:02 AlexDark69: did something right
2017-04-28 22:03 Endaris: it could probably better but the idea goes into the correct direction and the execution is at least okayish
2017-04-28 22:03 Endaris: so build on that!
2017-04-28 22:03 AlexDark69: well
2017-04-28 22:03 AlexDark69: I try
2017-04-28 22:04 Endaris: regarding the wubwub part later
2017-04-28 22:04 Endaris: well
2017-04-28 22:04 AlexDark69: ooh man
2017-04-28 22:04 AlexDark69: ur gonna tear me a new anus with that part
2017-04-28 22:05 Endaris: you're probably better off asking jordan because he is actually good with wubwubs but overall your usage of SV changes is inconsisten
2017-04-28 22:05 Endaris: t
2017-04-28 22:06 Endaris: 00:36:830 (3) - 00:39:088 (2) - i would claim these are similar in terms of how they are used in the music
2017-04-28 22:06 Endaris: but in the map they are completely different from each other
2017-04-28 22:06 AlexDark69: I mainly used the slow part to build on the bit after
2017-04-28 22:07 AlexDark69: but yea the sv should change on the note after
2017-04-28 22:07 Endaris: hm
2017-04-28 22:07 Endaris: then your dynamics for the flow of the wubwub part aren't good
2017-04-28 22:08 Endaris: you don't want to have things like 00:39:088 (2,3) -  flow perfectly with almost no motion required
2017-04-28 22:09 Endaris: The point of such wubwub parts is always to have a great cursoracceleration (be it positive or negative) to emphasize the sliderheads
2017-04-28 22:10 AlexDark69: I tried to map it to a similar fashion of how smoothie mapped his new map
2017-04-28 22:10 AlexDark69: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1257162 Virtual Riot - Rampage [Tempest]]
2017-04-28 22:10 AlexDark69: 01:09:655 (1) - there's a great example
2017-04-28 22:11 Endaris: so you don't want them to flow, instead you want to make the cursor accelerate towards slider heads and deccelerate (is this a word?) on the slider track when it is a slow slider
2017-04-28 22:12 Endaris: yea, but that's exactly what i said
2017-04-28 22:12 Endaris: the motion from 01:09:482 (3,1) -  is superswift
2017-04-28 22:12 Endaris: then you slow down right when you reach the slidertrack
2017-04-28 22:13 Endaris: that way the head gains more emphasis from a player perspective because he has to consciously not only snap but also stop
2017-04-28 22:14 Endaris: this is the way how i understand wubwub parts at least
2017-04-28 22:14 AlexDark69: ye
2017-04-28 22:14 AlexDark69: I'll have to remap the wub part I think
2017-04-28 22:14 AlexDark69: most of it at least
2017-04-28 22:14 Endaris: ^
2017-04-28 22:16 Endaris: 00:56:185 (10,11,12,13,14) - how to inflate SR
2017-04-28 22:17 Endaris: i see the point sort of but well
2017-04-28 22:17 AlexDark69: hehe
2017-04-28 22:17 Endaris: bit too much
2017-04-28 22:17 AlexDark69: idk if I will remove that
2017-04-28 22:17 AlexDark69: the intension was to build up the wubby part
2017-04-28 22:17 Endaris: also in the entire wubwub part and the last one you have to be careful about your instrumental focus
2017-04-28 22:17 AlexDark69: and then get to like a super spaced hype bit
2017-04-28 22:18 Endaris: stuff like 00:55:217 (3,4,5,6,7) - can be jarring when it is unclear whether you are actually doing something with the melody or sticking to drums
2017-04-28 22:19 Endaris: the part is fairly mixed so it is not going to be easy to keep it clean but do your best (that is why mapping pop is easy, never going to happen there)
2017-04-28 22:19 AlexDark69: idk
2017-04-28 22:19 AlexDark69: if I wanted to continue with the melody I wouldve made the triple a 5 note stack
2017-04-28 22:19 Endaris: yes, but why even a triple if you don't want to?
2017-04-28 22:20 AlexDark69: I didnt want to put a slider there as to ruin the flow of jumps
2017-04-28 22:20 AlexDark69: so I opted for a triple instead
2017-04-28 22:20 Endaris: I as a player would jump to wrong conclusions  based on this rhythm
2017-04-28 22:21 Endaris: because the drum doesn't provide the triple
2017-04-28 22:21 Endaris: at the same time I could ask why you didn't map 00:56:588 - 00:56:749 - as they're almost randomly left out
2017-04-28 22:22 Endaris: that all makes the map a bit confusing and directly reduces its readability
2017-04-28 22:22 AlexDark69: idk I felt like a 5 note was more justafied
2017-04-28 22:23 Endaris: yes, the melody suggests that
2017-04-28 22:23 Endaris: but as mentioned - arbitrarily switching between instruments makes the map hard to understand and hard to read
2017-04-28 22:23 AlexDark69: :thinking: now I'm confused myself as to whether I mapped to the melody or the drums
2017-04-28 22:23 AlexDark69: probably both'
2017-04-28 22:24 Endaris: this sounds a bit dumb, but at the end of the day osu! is about clicking to the beat and if you can't identify what you're clicking to, things get less enjoyable
2017-04-28 22:25 AlexDark69: ye
2017-04-28 22:25 Endaris: Incorporating more stuff is not a bad thing but it has to be done cleanly
2017-04-28 22:25 Endaris: so that I know: we're following melody in this part but drum is added where fitting
2017-04-28 22:26 AlexDark69: that's probably it
2017-04-28 22:26 Endaris: the main thing is that the other stuff is an addition, there is one main thing i use as reference for orientation and as long as i have that i can happily press buttons
2017-04-28 22:26 Endaris: yea, that is probably one of the most common mistakes ever
2017-04-28 22:26 Endaris: i refer to that as muddy mapping
2017-04-28 22:27 Endaris: because it feels undefined and hard to grasp like mud
2017-04-28 22:27 AlexDark69: isnt that sand
2017-04-28 22:27 Endaris: no, sand has a consistent texture with no surprises
2017-04-28 22:27 Endaris: also, sand is brilliant taiko mapper xd
2017-04-28 22:28 AlexDark69: lel
2017-04-28 22:28 Endaris: with mud it's like anything, you can't sift it and know what you're at
2017-04-28 22:29 Endaris: all you can do is put both hands in and  get yourself dirty xd
2017-04-28 22:29 AlexDark69: fair
2017-04-28 22:30 AlexDark69: I'm gonna have to delete what Ive done so far so I can fix my friend's part
2017-04-28 22:30 AlexDark69: so can u like post it on forums
2017-04-28 22:30 Endaris: naah, don't  delete
2017-04-28 22:30 Endaris: keep a copy
2017-04-28 22:30 AlexDark69: like a separate diff ?
2017-04-28 22:31 Endaris: for example
2017-04-28 22:31 Endaris: personally i also prefer reworking stuff patternwise without deleting anything
2017-04-28 22:31 Endaris: if i don't delete it i have an easier time seeing the mistakes i had before
2017-04-28 22:32 Endaris: so i have a better orientation on how to improve it
2017-04-28 22:32 AlexDark69: fair
2017-04-28 22:32 Endaris: deleting is like : "it was bad, start from scratch"
2017-04-28 22:32 AlexDark69: I'll just make a separate diff so I can keep on editing it then
2017-04-28 22:32 AlexDark69: yea true
2017-04-28 22:32 Endaris: but you don't want that, you want to improve on your mistakes
2017-04-28 22:33 Endaris: :thumbsup:
2017-04-28 22:33 AlexDark69: oh god
2017-04-28 22:33 AlexDark69: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7946478
2017-04-28 22:33 AlexDark69: what has he done
2017-04-28 22:33 Endaris: interesting

-Ran Yakumo- wrote:

moddu

SPOILER

2017-07-22 20:26 AlexDark69: oh right
2017-07-22 20:27 -Ran Yakumo-: so i gave you the suggestion
2017-07-22 20:27 -Ran Yakumo-: of doing thizs
2017-07-22 20:27 AlexDark69: yeah that makes sense
2017-07-22 20:27 -Ran Yakumo-: 00:00:378 (2,4) - CTRL + G
2017-07-22 20:27 -Ran Yakumo-: and after doing that
2017-07-22 20:27 -Ran Yakumo-: 00:00:539 (3,4) - CTRL + G
2017-07-22 20:27 -Ran Yakumo-: now the pattern should feel better to play
2017-07-22 20:27 AlexDark69: isnt that like
2017-07-22 20:27 AlexDark69: a massive spacing increase
2017-07-22 20:28 -Ran Yakumo-: its not that different of the spacing on this 00:01:668 (2,3,4,5) -
2017-07-22 20:28 -Ran Yakumo-: if anything, it just became more consistant with the spacing
2017-07-22 20:29 AlexDark69: hmm
2017-07-22 20:29 -Ran Yakumo-: if you dont like the suggestion you can ignore it
2017-07-22 20:29 AlexDark69: nah I like it but
2017-07-22 20:29 AlexDark69: I think the spacing is too much
2017-07-22 20:29 AlexDark69: so I'm gonna switch 3 and 4
2017-07-22 20:29 AlexDark69: instead
2017-07-22 20:30 AlexDark69: (from the original map)
2017-07-22 20:30 -Ran Yakumo-: good idea
2017-07-22 20:30 -Ran Yakumo-: its not really linear movmen,t from the slider to the 2
2017-07-22 20:30 -Ran Yakumo-: because the slider is like a stop
2017-07-22 20:31 AlexDark69: But since it's the first 2 notes i think a slow start is better
2017-07-22 20:31 -Ran Yakumo-: 00:03:201 (2) -
2017-07-22 20:31 -Ran Yakumo-: this seems a little wierd
2017-07-22 20:31 -Ran Yakumo-: since its not a 1/2
2017-07-22 20:31 -Ran Yakumo-: theres a little stop
2017-07-22 20:31 -Ran Yakumo-: why not put a circle on top of the 00:03:201 (2) - ?
2017-07-22 20:31 AlexDark69: yeah it's 1/6 I think
2017-07-22 20:31 -Ran Yakumo-: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8657819
2017-07-22 20:31 -Ran Yakumo-: like this
2017-07-22 20:32 AlexDark69: no im dumb
2017-07-22 20:32 AlexDark69: 1`/8
2017-07-22 20:32 AlexDark69: yea
2017-07-22 20:32 AlexDark69: I like that
2017-07-22 20:32 AlexDark69: that works much better
2017-07-22 20:33 -Ran Yakumo-: 00:03:604 (5) - move this a bit to the right 00:03:604 (5) -
2017-07-22 20:33 -Ran Yakumo-: so that it doesnt overlap with 00:04:249 (7) -
2017-07-22 20:33 AlexDark69: o ye
2017-07-22 20:33 AlexDark69: I didnt even notice that
2017-07-22 20:33 -Ran Yakumo-: 00:07:797 (8) - new combo?
2017-07-22 20:34 -Ran Yakumo-: 00:02:636 (7) - NC
2017-07-22 20:34 -Ran Yakumo-: 00:02:959 (1) - no NC
2017-07-22 20:34 -Ran Yakumo-: 00:05:217 (11) - NC
2017-07-22 20:35 -Ran Yakumo-: 00:22:152 (1) - isnt this part too intense to put a spinner there?
2017-07-22 20:35 AlexDark69: done
2017-07-22 20:35 -Ran Yakumo-: kinda undermapping
2017-07-22 20:35 -Ran Yakumo-: but then again im thinking in my 9 star mentality atm
2017-07-22 20:36 -Ran Yakumo-: 00:27:152 (5,6,7,8) - this looks like a stream, dont you think it'd be better to not stack the triple and the slider?N
2017-07-22 20:37 -Ran Yakumo-: 00:37:314 (6) - make the end overlap with the start of 00:36:507 (2) -
2017-07-22 20:37 AlexDark69: I think if I had mapped the part before it would be undermapping but like that it doesnt need a spinner
2017-07-22 20:38 -Ran Yakumo-: 00:59:894 (3,4) - CTRL + G?
2017-07-22 20:38 AlexDark69: 00:27:152 (5,6,7,8) - done
2017-07-22 20:38 -Ran Yakumo-: 01:00:701 (1) - why are the sliders suddenly slow?
2017-07-22 20:39 -Ran Yakumo-: are you making the sliders fast on the beginning of the NC
2017-07-22 20:39 -Ran Yakumo-: to emphasize the like wheeeeeee sound?
2017-07-22 20:39 -Ran Yakumo-: i see
2017-07-22 20:39 AlexDark69: ye
2017-07-22 20:39 -Ran Yakumo-: also
2017-07-22 20:40 -Ran Yakumo-: you should start using NC to like
2017-07-22 20:40 -Ran Yakumo-: make patterns look better
2017-07-22 20:40 AlexDark69: 00:59:894 (3,4) - this part I wont CTRL + G because the stream looks weird but I'll change it to sharper angles
2017-07-22 20:40 -Ran Yakumo-: 01:02:314 (5,6) - dont you think the spacing between these 2 is too close for comfort?
2017-07-22 20:41 AlexDark69: 00:37:314 (6) - done
2017-07-22 20:41 AlexDark69: 01:02:314 (5,6) - yeah agreed I'll change
2017-07-22 20:43 -Ran Yakumo-: ²00:43:926 (7) - this slider is overlapping with the stream before it, you can remove the overlap by making the slider end of 00:43:926 (7) - completley overlap the slider end of 00:42:959 (9) -
2017-07-22 20:46 AlexDark69: fixed
2017-07-22 20:46 -Ran Yakumo-: 01:32:959 (9) - NC ?
2017-07-22 20:46 AlexDark69: ye
2017-07-22 20:47 AlexDark69: that was a silly mistake
2017-07-22 20:47 -Ran Yakumo-: 01:42:314 (1) - too close to the triple imo, a good fix would be to make it reach the bottom, making a kind of triangle between the triple and stream
2017-07-22 20:49 AlexDark69: 01:42:314 (1) - I'll use your suggestion here
2017-07-22 20:53 -Ran Yakumo-: you should try working on your aesthetics, what i would suggest is using patterned jumps
2017-07-22 20:53 -Ran Yakumo-: and trying to not overlap as much as you can
2017-07-22 20:53 AlexDark69: tfw you tried to improve your aesthetics with overlaps
2017-07-22 20:53 -Ran Yakumo-: the overlaps that i think are okay
2017-07-22 20:53 -Ran Yakumo-: are half overlaps
2017-07-22 20:53 -Ran Yakumo-: like
2017-07-22 20:53 -Ran Yakumo-: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8657953
2017-07-22 20:54 -Ran Yakumo-: or full overlaps
2017-07-22 20:54 AlexDark69: fair
2017-07-22 20:54 -Ran Yakumo-: anything else looks pretty random and ugly
2017-07-22 20:54 -Ran Yakumo-: and try to abuse NC's in your favor to make patterns look better
2017-07-22 20:56 AlexDark69: I'll keep that in mind in the future
2017-07-22 20:56 AlexDark69: Thanks for the mod !