CSLM wrote:

ezek wrote:

@CSLM
00:27:744 (9) - no pusiste el nc aquí y no me respondiste por que no (mire tu update) Ese NC de hecho estaba :v como tu no especificaste si añadir o quitar pense que querias decir que lo quitara, pero en realidad ese NC ya estaba.

@Xana: Añadelo por mi please (o déjalo, la verdad no estoy seguro de como aparece en el update que tienes xD)

Al parecer Xanarufenritonandra lo puso antes de que tu le hicieras cambios y por eso la confusión xp

ay ay ay

ezek wrote:

[La Simpatica]

1. 02:32:571 (2) - spacing (mira que te vas a 1.42 xp)
2. 02:34:640 (1,2) - también te falta arreglar el spacing de estos
3. Vamos a ver unas partes iguales con spacing diferente:
   02:29:813 (2,3) - Entre estas dos notas es 1.3 / 02:31:192 (4,1) - 1.2 / 02:32:571 (2,3) - 1.4 / 02:33:951 (4,1) - 1.3 / 02:36:709 (4,1) - 1.0 / 02:38:089 (2,3) - 1.1

Plis, ahorrame algo de tiempo y revisa tu mismo cada objeto del kiai de esta diff para asegurarte que tienes un spacing consistente, hay uno que otro mas objetos que no siguen el spacing :c

Okok, listo. Toda esta diff tiene esos pequeños errores porque solia tener otro SV, y lo escale todo, y quedaron con muchos errores de DS cuando lo escale (algunos mas grandes que otros)

@CSLM
00:27:744 (9) - no pusiste el nc aquí y no me respondiste por que no (mire tu update)

Y sobre la diff de CSLM, lo que habia hecho fue bajar el volumen de la seccion que ezek habia comentado nada mas :<

me comió la po...

ezek wrote:

me comió la po...

Hermoso <3

HOOOOOY LA LIBERTAAAAAD
SE HA QUEDAADO DORMIDA Y EN SILENCI-- oh wrong song

Felicidades! <3

I don't think those difficulty names make sense in a spread... at least, they make very little sense in terms of the progression from your English translation. Any native spanish speaker able to draw some meaning out of this?

Adding on:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/142614

I think you need CSLMVenezuela in tags too since the mapper had ranked a mapset with a previous name.

Monstrata wrote:

I don't think those difficulty names make sense in a spread... at least, they make very little sense in terms of the progression from your English translation. Any native spanish speaker able to draw some meaning out of this?

It doesn't make sense for a spread I agree, it's like using a custom diff name at every diff

Tried to use a combination of adjectives that describes people and map's difficulty.

The reason why I wanted to use adjectives that describes people is because the whole song is about a "sweet" Mery, more specifically about where did the 'sweet' Mery that he once knew had gone as she has changed so much, where she basically used to give herself to any guy she met, basically making her very promiscuous, although now she still is but her friendly side is gone, which is where the sweetness comes from.

Anyways, I gave a bit of the story to tell you guys a bit about what kind of adjectives I was looking for, so basically:

Regalada = freebie, the difficulty is so easy that it is a free pass
Simpatica = easy going, friendly, the difficulty treats you so nice that you shouldnt be putting up too much work
Caprichosa = conceited, the difficulty is starting to demand a bit more of you
Complicada = complicated, the difficulty is complicated and you should have a bit of trouble dealing with it
Dura = hard, the difficulty is just plain hard
Bipolar = well... bipolar, the difficulty is unpredictable, only the most dedicated will have the patience to deal with it

Yes, they are basically custom diff names, but from what I understand, as long as they show difficulty progression should be okay.

I have also asked other spanish mappers in the past, such as mancuso, dake, kenezz, and others i forgot, and after much discussion, I have finally ended up with these names where they were happy with it. Other names I have tried in the past includes and now discarded: la puta, la facil, la odiada, la juguetona, etc etc

edit: oh I was not aware about his other name, how come he never mentioned me about that. Let me ask him if he wishes to have the tags.

the thing is that there is not progression for example why a bipolar is harder than a dura (hard) or a complicada (complicated)? they can work in any order and people will not get it, it's just like adding colors why green should be harder than red?.

Natsu wrote:

the thing is that there is not progression for example why a bipolar is harder than a dura (hard) or a complicada (complicated)? they can work in any order and people will not get it, it's just like adding colors why green should be harder than red?.

I kinda had this convo with Monstrata, but ill try again, some definitions of insane:
- in a state of mind which prevents normal perception, behaviour, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill.
- characterized or caused by madness.
- extremely foolish; irrational.

Using the same logic, how come insane is harder than a hard?

The term insane usually comes from the concepts of madness, crazy, as in too much to handle, etc. Bipolar follows something along the lines of that, having two moods fluctuations that you cannot usually predict much.

And why 'la dura' harder than 'la complicada'? Because from socialization point of view, I imagine a 'dura' as someone that has completely shut themselves from any kind of socialization while a 'complicada' is still possible as long as youre willing to go through their burden.

How come an Extra is harder than an easy? After all, extra just means one additional, no where in its definition has anything to do that describes the difficulty. I mean, sure, you can see it as 'An extra degree of difficulty' or something like that, but that is just stretching its meaning too, and as far as i know, very very few games uses this term, and most would lean more towards 'Extreme'

still they don't have any clue of progression and under ur explain we can use anything as diff name, about why Insane is harder than hard, you should ask peppy, since those are the default difficulty names.

a compllicated person can be harder to handle than a bipolar and viceversa, the same happens with the rest of concepts, for example a person who is consentida is harder to handle (atleast for me) than a complicated one, that's why I don't agree with your diff names, they can have many interpretations and doesn't bring any kind of escalation, a good example of a spread would be I - II - III or something like walking - running

Okay, I am much more willing to change it if you can suggest me names for all my diffs except the hardest one and are able to fulfill the following:

- All names must fit under a single theme, as in if I am using 'easy, normal, hard, insane' which are the standard for any game, do not mix it with 'beginner, medium, advanced, hyper' or anything like that to fill the 6 difff names.
- No added words such as light or heavy or + or etc.
- No repeating of same difficulty name, even if it is by a different mapper, all my diffs are meant to be played as different levels.
- If I am going to use weird diff names, I might as well stick with mine, so no another, extra, lunatic, etc.
- Only one diff shall begin with E, N, H, I, X or Ex, so if anything I am only willing to accept either an Expert or an Extreme, as a harder difficulty than insane, but not both, and even then, that is really pushing it as I do not deem La Bipolar worthy of Expert or Extreme as it is not, so changing my mind, these diff names won't apply.
- Contains only one word (excluding mappers names).
- Hardest diff must be 'La Dulce Mery'

I - II - III - ... seems to be a good alternative, but that theme doesn't really seem to fit the song imo and would look weird to suddenly have 'La Dulce Mery'

Monstrata wrote:

I think you need CSLMVenezuela in tags too since the mapper had ranked a mapset with a previous name.

I don't think this is... Necessary at all dude. I mean he ranked a map... IN 2014 ._. Is old

Here's my suggestion:

La Relajada (the relaxed one)
La Promedio (the average one)
La Complicada (the complicated one)
La Dificil (the hard one)
La Dura (the tough one)
La Bipolar Xanero (you know this one, I think it fits well since it's made by two people, showing sudden notable changes in mapping style, just like sudden emotional changes in a bipolar person, which make the person very hard to understand)
La Dulce Mery (Sweet Mery, the woman the song talks about)

Well, Hard and Tough are redundant words since tough can mean the same as hard (both in english and spanish I think) but the discussion is still open to changes~ We should figure out something good enough at some point.

So far the arguments provided have not really convinced me that regalada and simpatica is causing any problems, I am sure they are quite clear.

If anything is the complicada one which is causing problems (well, she is after all, a complicated girl)

I am more lenient to change that diff name to La Extenuante, resulting in:

La Regalada: she is so easy it is basically a free pass.
La Simpatica: she is easy going, so there should be no problems at all.
La Caprichosa: she is starting to demand more so you should put a bit more effort.
La Extenuante: she is exhausting, so will require even more effort to keep up with her
La Dura: she is a tough one, dealing with her will require all your effort.
La Bipolar: she is unpredictable, requiring you to understand her 100% plus all your effort.

Do you guys agree?

Also, I have sent a pm to CSLM and still waiting for his reply, in any case if he choses not to it should not be a problem as it should be up to the mapper. I am guessing that he wouldn't mind as he worked for this mapset since 3 years ago basically, and all this time he never commented about it, nonetheless I am still waiting for his reply.

if you have to write a sentence to explain a difficulty name, then it's not intuitive enough.

it'd be better if you used words that are similar in both languages. For example, Simpatica and Complicada are easy to get.

Monstrata wrote:

I think you need CSLMVenezuela in tags too since the mapper had ranked a mapset with a previous name.

This is not neccessary, Because 1) That's an really old nickname and 2) There's GDs ranked without that nickname on tags (example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/347276 , https://osu.ppy.sh/s/293832 )

Sinnoh wrote:

if you have to write a sentence to explain a difficulty name, then it's not intuitive enough.

it'd be better if you used words that are similar in both languages. For example, Simpatica and Complicada are easy to get.

As far as I know, difficulty names does not necessarily have to be intelligible with english language, and no, I do not need to write a whole sentence to explain it as demonstrated on my OT.

I have asked about the difficulty names with other people, and even some of them find it pointless to discuss about this.

Maybe if someone could explain to me why Lunatic is harder than Insane, might be able to convince me much easier about this issue: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/514980 https://osu.ppy.sh/s/113458

Or why extreme is harder than extra? https://osu.ppy.sh/s/462386
One could argue that Extra stands for Extra Hard, but then it only makes it harder than a Hard and not necessarily harder than an Insane, and even then, the Extra could be interpreted as Extra Easy. It could also be because it is following the Touhou difficulty naming format, but then why include Extreme?

I know I am going off-topic, but if someone can give me proper answers to these, then you guys might have given me enough arguments to convince me to the point of using ugly difficulty names set.

And yes, I do believe that my questions is a bit pointless and my arguments given for the questions is basically stretching it out, but then again, so are the arguments given in this discussion as well.

eh because people really never cared about difficulties above Insane, so you can find things such as extreme, lunatic, extra, ultra, but even if u can't find them in a progresion way they all make emphasis in that the diff you are playing is above an Insane, but in your case Bipolar is such a subjective thing, because a bipolar person can be both easy to handle and hard to handle.

I think the best you can do, if you really want to keep the concept is to use translations from the mainstream english names to spanish, maybe like:

La Facil, La Normal, La Dura, La Dificil, La Loca, La Extrema etc.

But things as Bipolar (As I explained above), simpatica, caprichosa can't really be placed in a progresion concept, since their meaning can have a lot of points of view, isn't basically the same as calling them Mad, Sad and Happy?

All I can say is that your answer was not satisfactory, and it actually opens me to more questions.

So just because they are harder difficulties they get a free pass? Why?

Since you really want to deal with semantics, how come insane and lunatic can be defined as harder than a Hard? After all they are just words to denote a person mentally ill.

Why Bipolar gets to be considered as being easy and hard at the same time? Why extra and extreme dont get that treatment? (as in extra easy, extremely easy)

Why you are defining La Dificil as being harder than La Dura? The main reason I have previously discarded La Dificil is precisely because its meaning is very similar to La Dura. Also, I really doubt anyone would describe a girl as being normal or extrema.

Calling the diffs as Mad, Sad, Happy for this song makes no sense at all, so I am not even sure why you are bringing this up, unless you are just trying to make a point (make me my arguments look ridiculous, which is not nice and I truly hope you are not doing such thing), and as I stated numerous times, the current diff names do make sense in a progression concept which is themed with the song.

Well, you dont really have to answer the questions, but I would really appreciate it if you could at least answer my first question, as it would help me understand you better.

So far the arguments against the diff names is that the difficulty progression might be up to subjectivity, it is understandable as I would not want confusing diff names either, and I am pretty sure that my diff naming standards is higher than most mappers out there. But, in order to counter this, I have had previously made some sort of survey among players to see if they understood the difficulty progression, during which many names have been changed and replaced (coincidentally, consentida was one of the options too, but as you said yourself, it was too subjective and thus discarded)

My point is that I have previously put the diff names to test on the spanish speaking community (including some english ones) and I kept testing until I reached the general consensus that they understood it. You coming by yourself saying that the names should be changed is basically defying my surveying efforts just for one person, and to be honest here, I would rather trust the answer from a sample of 10+ people rather than a single person (yourself, Monstrata and Sinnoh should not really be counted). With this survey I hoped to take away a bit the subjectivity factor.

I have also provided arguments that even with the current commonly used diff names, there is subjectivity applied on them too, to which you replied to just ask peppy why and that they are harder diffs thus they can be ignored, and to my eyes, these answer are highly subjective, even more than my methods.

As I said before, "bipolar" doesn't work because you're using it as a pun on "Insane". But you're using a different definition. Insane is supposed to imply the map is "Insanely difficulty" not that it "has a mental illness".

Imagine a spread like this: Amicable > Conforming > Impenetrable > Schizophrenic > Supernumary.

Amicable is a pun on "Easy" as in an "Easy-going / friendly person"
Conforming is a pun on "Normal" as in a "Normal person".
Impenetrable is a pun on "Hard" as in "Very difficult to break through"
Schizophrenic is a pun on "Insane" as in "psychotic, having a mental ailment".
Supernumary is a pun on "Extra" as in "extraneous, additional".

Clearly, this won't work.

The example about mad - happy - sad was just comparing your current ones with them.

About why Insane is harder than hard, monstrata replied above ^ and also they are the default diff names, and sorry for don't said it, but I linked your map at the BN discord server before posting here and there were more people who also has problems with them.

btw I don't see why monstrata and sinnoh don't count o.o

Monstrata wrote:

As I said before, "bipolar" doesn't work because you're using it as a pun on "Insane". But you're using a different definition. Insane is supposed to imply the map is "Insanely difficulty" not that it "has a mental illness".

Imagine a spread like this: Amicable > Conforming > Impenetrable > Schizophrenic > Supernumary.

Amicable is a pun on "Easy" as in an "Easy-going / friendly person"
Conforming is a pun on "Normal" as in a "Normal person".
Impenetrable is a pun on "Hard" as in "Very difficult to break through"
Schizophrenic is a pun on "Insane" as in "psychotic, having a mental ailment".
Supernumary is a pun on "Extra" as in "extraneous, additional".

Clearly, this won't work.

I dont see what is wrong with those diff names, care to elaborate more?

@Natsu: Yet it can also be interpreted as insanely easy, and that is my point, they are semantically flawed, yet they are accepted as the default ones. You guys, in the same way as I am, are using the definition that best favours our arguments.. I am only bringing this up because you guys decided to apply semantics

and Monstrata and Sinnoh dont really count because they dont understand the theme of the song.

So, from what I understand, diff names cannot be themed to fit into the song then?
Does this means that the dreaded diff name of Lunatic become unrankable now?
And then Natsu has stated that any difficulty above Insane gets to be named more leniently, yet Bipolar seems to be the biggest issue?

And as for Bipolar being used as a pun, I am claiming I am not and that I am still following the song's theme, you claim I am using as pun, this discussion will never end.

There are several questions that I have posted previously, which as I stated before, if answered, could help convince me easier. For some reason, they are still left unanswered.

There is no linear order to the difficulty name

1 >2 >3 >4 is an order. 1 >2 > C > 4 is not.

"bipolar" doesn't fit the order of "difficulties". it isn't a measure of difficulty, you can't rank "bipolar" in a system of how difficult a map is. You can say "complicated" is more difficult than "simple". They are both measures of difficulty. Bipolar is not.


I'm not looking to discuss the appropriateness of these difficulties honestly, i'm more explaining why they're wrong. Otherwise I would be asking you why you think "bipolar" is okay. It's not okay, and I think the discussion is more about "how should we fix this" because i'm quite sure this is getting dq'ed anyways.

For a moment you did gave me the illusion that discussion was available

there is room for discussion indeed
As a native speaker, I still don't get the difficulty progression here

Caprichosa doesn't in any way resemble Conceited (it'd be more like Engreída, Pretenciosa)

even ezek suggested some alternatives

so taking this down for the moment until you've figured how to properly rename the difficulties

I can requalify directly as there would be no gameplay changes

Also before further proceeding, may I get clarification if problem lies with the diff name theme or just Bipolar diff name (and potential La Caprichosa) too?

I tried to ask Raiden directly, but s/he gave me quite a cryptic responde to which I am not sure how to decipher, so I am leaving this question here.

what's cryptic about "reach a consensus with the community"? please refrain from saying such things without context.

:

Raiden wrote:

what's cryptic about "reach a consensus with the community"? please refrain from saying such things without context.

Community is a very broad term. Also sorry if I seem to be attacking, I just stated that with the intention to show that I have doubts, that I tried to contact you, but I was still left with the doubt (and you had things to do and had to leave), thus I made the question in the thread in hopes that someone else could help me clarify.

In any case, I discussed with Monstrata, and he stated that his/her main concern is with the Bipolar name diff, anything else should be consented with you or Natsu (Monstrata actually said any spanish speaking BN, but let's not do that for sake of biasing this more towards the people having trouble with this rather than finding a middle ground, thus you and Natsu).

Thus, I want to propose the following difficulty names, and please do give feedback this time. I have done it previously but no feedback were given.

La Regalada
La Simpatica
La Complicada
La Dura
La Intensa CSLM
La Extrema Xanero
La Dulce Mery

(Although la extrema doesnt really fit with the song's theme, but I think you guys might be happier with it)

Edit:

Aftet discussing with some additional users:

La Simpatica
La Modesta
La Complicada
La Dura
La Intensa
????? (Maybe use la regalada as the easiest diff name, but he preferred to have names that are intelligible in english, what do you guys think?)
La Dulce Mery

eh I still don't agree with this one as it doesn't fit in the scale, in the other side La Regalada would be fine IMO

La Simpatica

This ones are actually nice:

La Modesta
La Complicada
La Dura
La Intensa
La Dulce Mery


maybe try:

La Regalada (IMO La Relajada would be a lot better as it translates better to the english)
La Modesta
La Promedio (As Esek suggested, it makes a lot more sense than simpatica, since simpatica doesn't scale in anyway)
La Dura
La Intensa
La Extrema, La Loca etc, you have many options for this one.
La Dulce Mery

btw for the collab use Xanero's diff name, since I didn't notice until now that it was a collab lol

Hmm someone suggested that adding Xanero and CSLM to the guest diff caused some confusions, as it made them think that La Dulce Mery was also a guest diff.

And yes, La Bipolar Xanero is a collab, which is one of the reasons I thought it fits perfectly, but you guys have made it very clear that it is not and is not discussable ;(

Okay, so how about this?

La Relajada
La Modesta
La Promedio
La Complicada
La Dura
La Intensa
La Dulce Mery

Imo, I think the benefits of adding the guest mappers to the diff name outweighs the confusion caused by it.

yeah i'm fine with those

Diff names updated, will leave it up to raiden to agree with the diff names and hopefully requalify.

Thanks all

Xanandra wrote:

Hmm someone suggested that adding Xanero and CSLM to the guest diff caused some confusions, as it made them think that La Dulce Mery was also a guest diff.

Well, now that you have those diffs without the GD/collab indicators, you should at least point that out in the map's description. I also suggest sb names cuz there's no indication in the diffnames about GD or collab and I bet some people won't even read the description. Imagine if many people play a GD of yours and thinks the set owner was the one who mapped it 👀

Xanandra wrote:

Imo, I think the benefits of adding the guest mappers to the diff name outweighs the confusion caused by it.

I'm agree with Xana, also IMO deleting the guest mappers from the diffnames isn't right because doesn't give a proper presentation on the map. Yes, adding the diffname without the posesive particle make confusion with the top diff, so what about this?:

La Relajada
La Modesta
La Promedio
La Complicada
La Dura de CSLM
La Intensa de Xanero
La Dulce Mery

I'm just giving an proposition for avoid deleting the diffnames. If you ask me that doesn't seems right

CSLM wrote:

Xanandra wrote:

Imo, I think the benefits of adding the guest mappers to the diff name outweighs the confusion caused by it.

Agree with Xana, deleting the guest mappers from the diffnames isn't right because doesn't give a proper presentation on the map. Yes, adding the diffname without the posesive particle make confusion with the top diff, so what about this?:

La Relajada
La Modesta
La Promedio
La Complicada
La Dura de CSLM
La Intensa de Xanero
La Dulce Mery

I'm just giving an proposition for avoid deleting the diffnames. If you ask me that doesn't seems right

Oops, forgot to add that to description.

And i also like this idea, will do it when i get home if by then no one comments about it

Diff names are more reasonable now.

Requalifying as no gameplay changes were made.

Thank you!

Raiden wrote:

Diff names are more reasonable now

What about for those that don't speak sombrero hat?