Linked Horizon - Shinzou o Sasageyo! [TV Size]

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Maruyu
here it comes
SnowNiNo_

Maruyu wrote:

here it comes
the free NM wave
Kynan
What's the explanation for such a high AR on this mapset ? And especially Haruto's diff ?
Maruyu

SnowNiNo_ wrote:

Maruyu wrote:

here it comes
the free NM wave
True modding starts when maps get qualified :p

oh, and @Kynan: p/5920064

Shad0w1and
Modern mapping cares way too much about the ds and spacing. That is not how mapping works and they does not help playing experience.
Yes the first step to mapping is to understand the spacing reflecting to the intensity. But it is not the only thing you look at a map.
Yuii-

Shad0w1and wrote:

Modern mapping cares way too much about the ds and spacing. That is not how mapping works and they does not help playing experience.
Yes the first step to mapping is to understand the spacing reflecting to the intensity. But it is not the only thing you look at a map.
Wait, wait, wait. Wait a second. You first said "spacing and ds are overrated nowadays," then "mapping doesn't work like that," and finally "you need to understand how spacing reflects the song in order to start mapping".

I am truly speechless, sir. Amazed.
Mapper
LMAO
Topic Starter
Monstrata

Mapper wrote:

Hard
00:04:872 (1,2) - why is the ds so small here? its bigger at all the other parts basically, doesnt make any sense to me I'm emphasizing only the high note of every set of two beats. 00:04:122 (3) - Higher pitch = jump, 00:04:497 (4) - Lower pitch = no jump, 00:04:872 (1) - Higher = jump, etc... If i made them all jumps it would be overkill on the Hard.
00:17:247 (2,3) - if these are 3x, why is 00:17:622 (4,5) - 2,5x? 00:17:622 (4,5) - is even much more intense, so should be the opposite imo This is just patterning. You can clearly see emphasis is being expressed on the white tick through sharp angles + jumps. That's what matters. Due to slider velocity, I can't position slider 5 in a way that would give it an equal jump as 2>3 without jeopardizing visuals, and the visual here are good.
00:18:560 (1) - this part is intense af. if you had such a high spacing at the previous parts i mentioned, why do you have it so low at other intense parts? This part is being exemplified through higher SV's. Spacing should be used sparingly in a Hard still. I don't want to introduce an Advanced difficulty.
01:14:060 (3) - i would read this like it is on the red tick, and the upcoming slider to be on the white tick, maybe do something about that? You should do something about your reading instead :P. Just because you can't read it doesn't mean I need to change it. I got a few opinions on this, and it's fine to read. The spacing of 2>3 suggests a 1/4 gap just because of how close 3 is from 2's slider-end. As well, you can see the spacing from 3>1 before the repeat slider finishes playing due to the AR so you can also extrapolate that 3>1 is probably a 1/2 rhythm. You should assume that it is, if you read the pattern properly ( and when you play, you'll confirm your assumption).
01:20:060 (1,2,1,2) - in my opinion these should be the same ds, i dont know if stuff like this are issues, its just stuff i disagree with Not an issue imo. The first jump is good because it creates an expectation for something more intense in the next section, and by then the player will be expecting more intense patterns overall.

this occurs at like every diff thats over hard
01:06:747 - and 01:07:497 - actually has claps, so why didnt you hitsound them? Because they're 1/1 sliders and hitsounding the slidertick would be wrong? Like, are you saying I should change my rhythm just to be consistent with other diffs? If you notice, the upper diffs are a lot denser. Here I want to emphasize the vocals with longer sliders
"normal-hitfinish2" sounds like something that would be used in a fort map, not in a medieval-themed anime opening. doesnt fit at all
also above 70% is a bit "ear-rape" with the default skin, especially with default hitsounds Disagree completely. Nothing much else to say. This is just your personal opinion anyways and I don't need to convince you that your opinion is wrong.

these are some stuff i found that i didnt really agree with. i dont know if its dq worthy and im sure youll deny everything if you even respond.
I've responded, thanks for checking :).
Topic Starter
Monstrata

Kynan wrote:

What's the explanation for such a high AR on this mapset ? And especially Haruto's diff ?
The AR is barely high imo. 9.2 gives you 570 ms between seeing and clicking an object. For comparison, AR9 is 600 ms. The rhythms on Insane + Haruto's Insane are quite dense, and both are mapped in a sort of "light" alternator style. I'll call it light because even though its very dense, the 1/4's are generally stacked rather than spaced like the Titan diff. Higher AR"s help keep the map less cluttered. The decision to add a decimal helps with the spread between Insane and Titan, as well, decimal AR's are perfectly fine, unless you can convince me that AR 9 is objectively better than 9.2 with a reasoning outside of "it doesn't have a decimal". Another thing to note is that since the song is 160 bpm, there is 558ms between every 3/2 of a beat. This means that there will be at most 6 objects on the screen on the Insanes (The AR's on Insane are greater than 558, the AR on Titan is less than 558) and 5 objects on the screen on Titan. If you check the Insanes, you'll notice that there is a 1/2 slider that occurs at least once every 2/1 of a beat in the kiai's, so reliably, I can say the AR's help with decluttering the screen and compliment the rhythms used on the Insanes.

You could extend the AR argument to the Titan diff though. The AR is barely higher (9.3 instead of 9.2) but object density still feels more overwhelming since I use almost exclusively 1/4 sliders and rarely 1/2 sliders. However, imo 9.3 is really good for this particular rhythm choice, and I've had ample opportunity to test that setting on alternator style ranked maps (Hey Kids, Fighting Dreamer) so I can reliably say this AR is good too, even if it doesn't seem like as much of a progression from Haruto's AR.

I guess what I mean is, with the current AR's and rhythm choices, it will feel like there are 3-4 objects on the screen across the top 3 diffs, which helps with decluttering. However, the Titan diff will feel more rushed because while its more or less the same object density. The objects are usually exclusively 1/4 rhythms, whereas on the Insanes, you can realiably expect at least a 1/2 rhythm.
Kynan
The thing is that on Haruto's diff, ALL the alternating is just stacked 1/4 on top of sliders, even on the "harder" part at the end, so I really don't see how adding 0.2AR would help anyone reading that. On the Titan diff however, the ending is WAY more spaced than the rest of the map and I find the AR almost too low compared to how easy the rest of the map is to read.

My point is that when there's no spacing, there is legit NO REASON to put such a high AR, and I'll be honnest saying I didn't check the lower diffs, but if the excuse is to create a gap between the lower diffs, then you might as well reduce the AR of the lower diffs too since it's probably way too high for how easy it is to read.
Yuii-

Kynan wrote:

On the Titan diff however, the ending is WAY more spaced than the rest of the map and I find the AR almost too low compared to how easy the rest of the map is to read.
This is the same issue that happened to ALIEN where it was too hard to balance it due to how the map as a whole was built around. It's either you have to set it up too high in order to make the hardest sections more comfortable or you just set up something in between to find a balance with both sections. Unfortunately you cannot have variable ARs, so I think the current one works just fine.

I slightly agree with the AR on Haruto's difficulty, although it's not that much of a deal unless you are trying it to DT it.
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Also since when was AR 9.2 high xd. I hope you aren't considering this with DT because imo these AR's are perfect for nomod...
Kynan

Yuii- wrote:

This is the same issue that happened to ALIEN where it was too hard to balance it due to how the map as a whole was built around. It's either you have to set it up too high in order to make the hardest sections more comfortable or you just set up something in between to find a balance with both sections. Unfortunately you cannot have variable ARs, so I think the current one works just fine.
I don't think you can really compare it to ALIEN where it's just dumb to use anything else than AR10 considering how crazy the map is and that the players actually able to play it can play slow stuff on AR10 without any problem (just as if they were playing HR pretty much).

Yuii- wrote:

I slightly agree with the AR on Haruto's difficulty, although it's not that much of a deal unless you are trying it to DT it.
fk he knows

Edit: welp that answers your question I guess Monstrata, of course I'm considering DT lol, it's fun as hell but the AR gives me aids it's just way too high for no reason :/ Even AR9.6 would fit better on that kind of spacing man...
Topic Starter
Monstrata
Wait, now I'm confused lol. Do you mean the AR is too high? or too low? cuz you just said 9.6 lol.
Kynan
Meant 9.6 with DT on (so ar8 nomod). Obiously AR8 is way too low for this on nomod, but I still think that AR9.2 is too much when everything is stacked like that.
Shad0w1and

Yuii- wrote:

Shad0w1and wrote:

Modern mapping cares way too much about the ds and spacing. That is not how mapping works and they does not help playing experience.
Yes the first step to mapping is to understand the spacing reflecting to the intensity. But it is not the only thing you look at a map.
Wait, wait, wait. Wait a second. You first said "spacing and ds are overrated nowadays," then "mapping doesn't work like that," and finally "you need to understand how spacing reflects the song in order to start mapping".

I am truly speechless, sir. Amazed.
You could get amazed. everyone know how DS work, but mapping is not only about DS. that is my point. I think I explained that clearly :/
Topic Starter
Monstrata
I really just have to disagree. The AR is necessary on nomod imo. Lowering the AR just clutters everything up. As well, the stacks don't even play a huge part in the map. There are also sliders, which account for the vast majority anyways. Your argument is basically "AR is too high for DT" which is already an argument that shouldn't be entertained because lowering it results in negative effects for nomod, the mod that we should be considering. I'm only discussing it further to try and help you see my perspective, but I think we've said all that needs to be said. There will be no change to the AR.
Cellina
hi slowrank
P A N

SnowNiNo_ wrote:

Maruyu wrote:

here it comes
the free NM wave
people nowadays are so picky smh
_Yiiiii
Nice work and anime wub inc lol
I can't understand why people pointed out those subjective opinions wanting a objective response. Thing are good for playing, that's all. And actually the AR really doesn't matter a map and almost every AR setting can get a reasonable explanation.
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