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S3RL feat Harri Rush - Nostalgic (Nightcore Mix) [CatchTheBe

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Net0
Nice to see all the support on this map. Glad to see you getting this into ranked nold, thanks a lot for the map ^^
Monstrata
yf's Insane

01:24:729 (1,2) - Forgot to add a green line here with 0.75x SV, these sliders are unsnapped :(

Also:

I guess ï wasn't supported by your font :(
pw384
Nice job! Wish you fantastic trip through academic life!
Aurele
Disqualified for missing for a green timing point in yf’s difficulty.

Please check Monstrata’s post above. Confirmed by Mir.
Karoo13
While this is dq'd can we talk about posthumous? The reverse slider streams are technically justified but the flow and spacing into the sliders at the end is ridiculous. I suggest that the sliders spiral with flow from the stream, smaller jump, and are visually arranged so they aren't hidden under slider tails/reverse arrows from earlier (maybe blanketed by the stream, since it is already circular arc).

Then there is the 0-stack part... I have come to terms with the fact that the middle notes of the triples are not mapped to any sound, but even then, the choice of where triples are inserted is inconsistent with the song, and the new combo structure is inconsistent with itself.

From 24-32 seconds, triples follow the high note of the scale, or mark the descending part of the scale. This much is fine, but then the last 2 triples break the pattern, as the scale does not descend on those. 00:32:344 (1) - needs to be removed, and 00:32:960 (1) - is maybe ok, but since the note following the triple actually goes up in pitch rather than down, this deserves different treatment from the others, I would suggest move 00:33:190 (1) - off of the stack, to around 38,100.

And maybe adjust the hitsounds and combos around that, i cant even tell what you were trying to do with the combos, but it should follow a consistent pattern through the stack.
tatatat
eww this isn't in loved. :/ but I already had plays and stuff :c dummy
Topic Starter
Ulysses
Thank you monstrata. Added a green line.
(Sorry Ascendance and Bubblun)



Karoo13 wrote:

While this is dq'd can we talk about posthumous? The reverse slider streams are technically justified but the flow and spacing into the sliders at the end is ridiculous. I suggest that the sliders spiral with flow from the stream, smaller jump, and are visually arranged so they aren't hidden under slider tails/reverse arrows from earlier (maybe blanketed by the stream, since it is already circular arc). :arrow: The spacing in the spaced stream is not that big. Replace all reversed sliders with circles and you will see what players actually play when doing this seemingly impossible stream. When it was loved, quite a few players had FC'd this part. For the spiral slider, I am very hesitant to put it in space with the stream in question because the sound where the slider hits is sudden and does not, subjectively speaking, fits if I put it in flow. Rather, a position at which it is not quite expected where the spiral slider is (but not unreadable) suits the sound perfectly.

Then there is the 0-stack part... I have come to terms with the fact that the middle notes of the triples are not mapped to any sound, but even then, the choice of where triples are inserted is inconsistent with the song, and the new combo structure is inconsistent with itself.

From 24-32 seconds, triples follow the high note of the scale, or mark the descending part of the scale. This much is fine, but then the last 2 triples break the pattern, as the scale does not descend on those. 00:32:344 (1) - needs to be removed, and 00:32:960 (1) - is maybe ok, but since the note following the triple actually goes up in pitch rather than down, this deserves different treatment from the others, I would suggest move 00:33:190 (1) - off of the stack, to around 38,100.

And maybe adjust the hitsounds and combos around that, i cant even tell what you were trying to do with the combos, but it should follow a consistent pattern through the stack.:arrow: This is not a problem at all. You may have disabled hitsound and skin so you cannot see it is actually a Taiko pattern with taiko hitsound and taiko NC arrangement and that's why you find it so unreasonable? The rhythm is perfectly fine. I confess, it is slightly overmapped in this part but it is just how taiko is.
Aurele
Since it was fixed, rebubbled!

Good luck :)
Aurele
While it is still in pending, is there a reason why the taiko difficulties have the 'Taiko' in their difficulty names?
Topic Starter
Ulysses

Gabe wrote:

While it is still in pending, is there a reason why the taiko difficulties have the 'Taiko' in their difficulty names?

It is the early naming system but has become obsolete. I include the word because I think it brings nostalgia seeing something obsolete being used again, matching the theme of the song.
Aurele

nold_1702 wrote:

Gabe wrote:

While it is still in pending, is there a reason why the taiko difficulties have the 'Taiko' in their difficulty names?
It is the early naming system but has become obsolete. I include the word because I think it brings nostalgia seeing something obsolete being used again, matching the theme of the song.
Alright, all good! Thanks for the explanation.
Topic Starter
Ulysses
I made one change after Gabe’s bubble. I made the inner edge of fruit-drop-overlay.png transparent. Apart from this image, nothing in the map was changed after Gabe’s bubble. May Gabe rebubble?
Sun Rainbow
rank it plz.
Awesome work on map and storyboard.
btw
Maybe it's time to uninstall osu for me.


There was no living way for sber using editor anymore since many osu sbers use programmer code to make the storyboard.


讲个搞笑的nold图都已经是last map了我还是打不过nold 1st的posthumous难度.
Ascendance
I’m off to school soon so I’ll just rebubble instead
Karoo13

nold_1702 wrote:

Karoo13 wrote:

From 24-32 seconds, triples follow the high note of the scale, or mark the descending part of the scale. This much is fine, but then the last 2 triples break the pattern, as the scale does not descend on those. 00:32:344 (1) - needs to be removed, and 00:32:960 (1) - is maybe ok, but since the note following the triple actually goes up in pitch rather than down, this deserves different treatment from the others, I would suggest move 00:33:190 (1) - off of the stack, to around 38,100.
The rhythm is perfectly fine.
I will trust you on the taiko combo structure, but this part explains why the rhythm is not fine. The second to last triple 00:32:344 (1) - is unjustified in the context of the rest of the pattern, as it is the only one mapped to an ascending scale. And I would like you to consider my comment on 00:33:190 (1) -
Topic Starter
Ulysses

Karoo13 wrote:

nold_1702 wrote:

Karoo13 wrote:

From 24-32 seconds, triples follow the high note of the scale, or mark the descending part of the scale. This much is fine, but then the last 2 triples break the pattern, as the scale does not descend on those. 00:32:344 (1) - needs to be removed, and 00:32:960 (1) - is maybe ok, but since the note following the triple actually goes up in pitch rather than down, this deserves different treatment from the others, I would suggest move 00:33:190 (1) - off of the stack, to around 38,100.

The rhythm is perfectly fine.

I will trust you on the taiko combo structure, but this part explains why the rhythm is not fine. The second to last triple 00:32:344 (1) - is unjustified in the context of the rest of the pattern, as it is the only one mapped to an ascending scale. And I would like you to consider my comment on 00:33:190 (1) -

There are changes in the rhythm and that’s the reason I made it ascending instead of repeating the rhythm before otherwise players may play the same pattern with different rhythms (that’s how taiko does it as well).

Any reason for you suggestion for movig (1) to 38,100?
Karoo13

nold_1702 wrote:

There are changes in the rhythm and that’s the reason I made it ascending instead of repeating the rhythm before otherwise players may play the same pattern with different rhythms (that’s how taiko does it as well).

Any reason for you suggestion for movig (1) to 38,100?
If you listen to the song only, and not the hitsounds you have inserted, 00:27:190 (1,1,2,3) - and 00:32:114 (1,2,1,2,1) - are exactly the same, yet mapped differently. The entire piano scale repeats itself, until 00:33:190 (1) - which is why it should be tapped the same way until that object. Since that object is where it stops repeating, I think it should be off the stack or distinguished in some other way.

I am running out of ways to rephrase this, but 00:32:344 (1) - is an error and "but in taiko it is normal to overmap and change rhythm arbitrarily" is not a good justification.
Topic Starter
Ulysses

Karoo13 wrote:

nold_1702 wrote:

There are changes in the rhythm and that’s the reason I made it ascending instead of repeating the rhythm before otherwise players may play the same pattern with different rhythms (that’s how taiko does it as well).

Any reason for you suggestion for movig (1) to 38,100?


If you listen to the song only, and not the hitsounds you have inserted, 00:27:190 (1,1,2,3) - and 00:32:114 (1,2,1,2,1) - are exactly the same, yet mapped differently. The entire piano scale repeats itself, until 00:33:190 (1) - which is why it should be tapped the same way until that object. Since that object is where it stops repeating, I think it should be off the stack or distinguished in some other way.

I am running out of ways to rephrase this, but 00:32:344 (1) - is an error and "but in taiko it is normal to overmap and change rhythm arbitrarily" is not a good justification.

Thank you for your suggestion. The rhythm in question is not arbitary as explained. The paino sound ends at the slider. I will take your comments into account when deciding whether or not to change the patterns in question. Thank you.
Topic Starter
Ulysses
24 hours have passed.
Hollow Delta
Ready when you are
iaport
Let's go!
Hollow Delta
gl dude xp
Topic Starter
Ulysses
Thank you again!
Ideal
hell yea hopefulyl this time it all goes well
tatatat
So whats up with the taiko custom hitsounds? Are they actually any different? I can't tell the difference between them and the default hitsounds. If they aren't custom, please remove them and change the sampleset to the default soft sample set. (I believe you were using the custom soft sampleset1). Thank you c:
Topic Starter
Ulysses

tatatat wrote:

So whats up with the taiko custom hitsounds? Are they actually any different? I can't tell the difference between them and the default hitsounds. :arrow: They aren't different. They are the original default hitsounds. Taiko players with their own skinned hitsound will use these custom hitsounds.


If they aren't custom, please remove them and change the sampleset to the default soft sample set. (I believe you were using the custom soft sampleset1). :arrow: Sorry I cannot remove them because taiko players who have their own skin will notice the difference (and my pirpose is that they will experience nostalgia when using the old hitsounds). And it is not the soft sample that is used but the normal.
Regou
Maybe a little bit too late but thank you and wish you all the best in the future!
neonat
The custom difficulty name is unrelated to the song? You can't have the naming become a way of determining the mapper.
-Mo-
The storyboard is really well made. However I just need to ask


It's not as if there's anything after the main SB that's worth leaving in anyway, and this is probably the source of why this map keeps crashing people's games.

While this is down I have a few other minor things to point out:

Kloyd's Extra
- 03:59:806 (1,1) - Should this not be spaced out like you did at 00:15:806 (1,1) ?
- 01:40:344 (3) - 01:41:883 (3) - 01:44:037 (3) etc - These places where the second object in a triple is using a soft sampleset sounds really weird for feedback to me, since surrounding this with objects that use the normal sampletset kinda drowns out the sound of these.
- 01:51:652 (3,4,5) - I get that your stacks are all supposed to be custom, but I think this came out in an a less than ideal way.

Storyboard
- 03:44:114 - The Bad Apple reference seems to have a noticable amount of aliasing, which is out of place when the other silhouettes in this scene have decent quality.
- 03:43:960 - There's some particles in the lower right that seems to have snuck their way in from the previous scene. Same kind of thing happens over at 02:13:883 too.

This map is actually one of the best I've seen all year, but leaving a gravity simulation at the end of the map for 11+ hours is just... yeah.
pw384
The storyboard may cause crushes and you should fix that so it can be a nicer experience to play this map!

About the diff name, I'd like to defend for Nold since I find it valid with reasons list as follows.

Original Rule

A difficulty’s name must be unrelated to a username. Guest difficulties, however, may indicate possession with its mappers’ username or nickname. (e.g. Guest Mapper’s Insane). Words that happen to be usernames are acceptable within difficulty names as long as they relate to the song.

Reasons

0) Rule is defined as "unrelated to a username" instead of "unrelated to a user".

1) Nold has many maps that are not named after "Posthumous";
2) some other mappers also use "Posthumous" as their diff names;
Combining 1) 2), it is not fair to correlate Posthumous with the mapper, according to the philosophy of F-test.

3) Posthumous can indicate the difficulty as it is often related with death, hell, or something just like that. If it was unrankable, common diff names like "Hell" should also be considered unrankable;
4) Nold has never claimed that Posthumous is his sole diff name, and so is with mappers like Sotarks (Melancholy), CLSW (Nervous Breakdown), fort (Game Over), etc.

Conclusion

Posthumous is a valid diff name. Even though Nold uses it frequently, there does not exist a proper reason to discourage him from using this diff name. Otherwise, if the "relation" were a reason for the prevention, we would also forbid everyone to use a diff name for more than four times, and "Posthumous" would become a diff name that everyone except for Nold can employ, both of which are apparently unreasonable.
Kuron-kun
A few additions to Mo's post:

[General]
  1. Might consider adding a higher volume to this section 01:05:344 - since it blends with the song a bit, specially in lower diffs, where you don't have a lot of triples to stand out. Would suggest 50% so you don't have to rework much of the volume later.
[Normal]
  1. I'm really unsure about this diff's density, specially that it's more confusing and more dense than an usual Normal. Patterns like 01:40:421 (2,3,1) - and 02:03:190 (1,2,1) - might be really confusing to new players. You're also using 3 different snaps (1/2, 1/1 and 1/4) and adding too much complexity in these rhythms isn't the best idea. I'd suggest to nerf sections where you mixed a lot of snaps/rhythms but at least consider increasing the AR to 5.
[Hyper]
  1. 00:32:575 (1,2,3,1,1) - Cool section but stacking kinda makes it look REALLY messy https://i.imgur.com/NhvGUGN.png. Consider adjusting these.
  2. 02:32:883 (2) - More than 1 reverse in a slider is already unexpected enough but adding a circle there might be unrankable as it's covering the repeat arrow and it makes it even more unexpected. Moving this slider a bit more to the right, where 02:32:729 (1) - doesn't cover the arrow is the best idea.
[yf's Insane]
  1. AR is way too low for diff's density... it's already confusing enough and I don't see much reasoning in lowering the AR to make it more less readable as the mapset isn't focusing in this. AR9 (or higher?) is much better.
[Drop's Extra]
  1. 00:16:960 (1,1) - I'm pretty sure you didn't want to use this kind of snap here since it's impossible to sightread it.
neonat
It's more synonymous to post-orbituary, not hell or whatnot. The rule is to prevent any kind of difficulty name which can determine the mapper. Only nold has several ranked with this name. They don't have to claim it to be theirs, it appears in songs that have no relation to this word.
Topic Starter
Ulysses

neonat wrote:

The rule is to prevent any kind of difficulty name which can determine the mapper. Only nold has several ranked with this name. They don't have to claim it to be theirs, it appears in songs that have no relation to this word.
Thank you for contributing to the mapset. Your argument is:
1. There is a rule that prevents any kind of difficulty name which can determine the mapper.
2. Only Nold has ranked maps with [Posthumous]
3. Therefore, players can identify Nold when they see the diff name [Posthumous]
*4. Therefore, it is against the rule for Nold to use the diff name [Posthumous].

There are a few problems with this argument:
A) (1) is unsound. The rule is that 'a difficulty’s name must be unrelated to a username', not that it must be unrelated to a user. Therefore, 'Noldstalgic' is not rankable, 'Posthumous' has nothing to do with 'nold_1702' this username, so it is rankable.

B) Even if the interpretation of the rule is that 'a difficulty's name must be unrelated to a user or username', your argument is still invalid. 'Posthumous' has nothing to do with my user. It is true that (2) is sound, but (3) does not follow (2). I have no control over the choice of other mappers' diff name. What do you mean by (2) and (3) is that if other users have also used the diff name [Posthumous] then it will be rankable for me to use [Posthumous]. The absurdity of this conclusion is plain and unacceptable. If this is all the argument is about, I can simply ask a few mappers to submit a map with the diff name [Posthumous] and the problem will be solved. I am, indeed, not being serious. What I am suggesting is that the conclusion is an absurdity.

C) Storyboard relation. Enable the SB and watch the last part (white silouhette). The word posthumous is related to the storyboard.

D) Precedent. https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=736300&m=0 this map was ranked after the rule was passed. If no one was forced to change the diff name to [Nold's Hell] or [Nold's Extra], I see no reason why I should be forced to change the diff name here.

E) You quoted peppy on the disqualification thread:

peppy wrote:

My goal here is to avoid the difficulty name becoming a way of determining the mapper. This is an unintended use and I will never stand for it.
The rule is a result of the consensus of the community, not peppy alone. His opinion is of course highly authoritative, but if the words of the rule is 'username' not 'user', the community consensus is clear. Also, what he said is open to interpretation as well.

F) see also pw's arguments above about [Posthumous] being indicative of the difficulty of the map. Your counter argument is that the word means post-orbituary and does not mean 'hell'. I can also argue that the word 'hell' means a place where atheists may go after death where they will suffer. It does not mean insane/extra. Therefore, the diff name [Hell] should also not be used. And again, I am not being serious here but that the absurdity of the logic behind this argument is obvious.

Any one of the above arguments is a sufficient justification for the employment of [Posthumous]
Lexii
nooo not again D;
Ascendance
posthumous cause it's gonna be ranked after nold is dead on osu

imo this is another case where some random peppy quote from 1945 gets thrown into something where it's not really needed. you're basically blaming nold for something entirely out of his hands. he can't tell a mapper "hey use posthumous as a diff name so that way it's less connected to me", it makes no sense. it just HAPPENS to be that nold uses the diff name and he is the most popular attribute to it.
Topic Starter
Ulysses
Will apply mods later today. Please if any person has any concern/issue to bring up, bring it up now.
Topic Starter
Ulysses

Kuron-kun wrote:

A few additions to Mo's post:

[General]
  1. Might consider adding a higher volume to this section 01:05:344 - since it blends with the song a bit, specially in lower diffs, where you don't have a lot of triples to stand out. Would suggest 50% so you don't have to rework much of the volume later.
:arrow: It is intended cause this part is more quiet.

[Normal]
  1. I'm really unsure about this diff's density, specially that it's more confusing and more dense than an usual Normal. Patterns like 01:40:421 (2,3,1) - and 02:03:190 (1,2,1) - might be really confusing to new players. You're also using 3 different snaps (1/2, 1/1 and 1/4) and adding too much complexity in these rhythms isn't the best idea. I'd suggest to nerf sections where you mixed a lot of snaps/rhythms but at least consider increasing the AR to 5.
:arrow: It fits into the spread well and that's ok. First of all players playing normal aren't new players. New players play easy. And If they find it confusing to read, so be it. We cannot, let's say, to keep normal and easy totally readable to new players and then put all the patterns that require reading skill in hard. The jump will not be reasonable. And in my opinion, the patterns you mention are easily readable because of the use of new combo colour. Players know that they need to hit (1) and then (2) and then (1) in another colour.
Then you say the rhythm choice isn't a good idea. I disagree. there is no stream(1/4 notes) in the diff. All 1/4 objects are sliders. They require no skills as to reading nor streaming. Players see that they are sliders, they will click and hold.

[Hyper]
  1. 00:32:575 (1,2,3,1,1) - Cool section but stacking kinda makes it look REALLY messy https://i.imgur.com/NhvGUGN.png. Consider adjusting these. :arrow: Done
  2. 02:32:883 (2) - More than 1 reverse in a slider is already unexpected enough but adding a circle there might be unrankable as it's covering the repeat arrow and it makes it even more unexpected. Moving this slider a bit more to the right, where 02:32:729 (1) - doesn't cover the arrow is the best idea. :arrow: ok
[yf's Insane]
  1. AR is way too low for diff's density... it's already confusing enough and I don't see much reasoning in lowering the AR to make it more less readable as the mapset isn't focusing in this. AR9 (or higher?) is much better.
:arrow: I find AR 8.5 just fine. It is readable to me and I am a 5-digit, the kind of player who this diff is designed for. This AR is reasonable. readability aside, this AR gives nostalgia because old maps are generally with lower AR.

[Drop's Extra]
  1. 00:16:960 (1,1) - I'm pretty sure you didn't want to use this kind of snap here since it's impossible to sightread it.
:arrow: this is a mistake I believe. Done.
Topic Starter
Ulysses

-Mo- wrote:

The storyboard is really well made. However I just need to ask

:arrow: done

It's not as if there's anything after the main SB that's worth leaving in anyway, and this is probably the source of why this map keeps crashing people's games.

While this is down I have a few other minor things to point out:

Kloyd's Extra
- 03:59:806 (1,1) - Should this not be spaced out like you did at 00:15:806 (1,1) ? :arrow: It is a mistake. Thanks.
- 01:40:344 (3) - 01:41:883 (3) - 01:44:037 (3) etc - These places where the second object in a triple is using a soft sampleset sounds really weird for feedback to me, since surrounding this with objects that use the normal sampletset kinda drowns out the sound of these. :arrow: Agree. Done.
- 01:51:652 (3,4,5) - I get that your stacks are all supposed to be custom, but I think this came out in an a less than ideal way. :arrow: Agree. Done.

Storyboard
- 03:44:114 - The Bad Apple reference seems to have a noticable amount of aliasing, which is out of place when the other silhouettes in this scene have decent quality. :arrow: Well, I cant find a better animation than this. For me it is not that noticeable I guess it is fine.
- 03:43:960 - There's some particles in the lower right that seems to have snuck their way in from the previous scene. Same kind of thing happens over at 02:13:883 too. :arrow: They are not noticeable if you watch the SB in full speed. I will avoid fixing this manually because it will take me some hours to fix it.
Topic Starter
Ulysses
The map is ready to be bubbled and qualified.
I am not sure if it is a good idea to cause Bubblun any more trouble as I can imagine this map has made some negative impact on his BN performance perception already given that it is disqualified twice and the bubble was popped once. Any BN willing to rebub/qualify?

And if anyone has the map now and decides to bring up some issues, please do it as soon as possible.
Hollow Delta
Yo.

To be real, it's not a big deal. Most of the stuff brought up are things I wouldn't have noticed on my own, so in the meantime while I try to learn them I'm glad they pointed them out.

I'd be happy to icon whenever it's ready.
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