animask wrote:

Day 1 is almost over and I probably won't be able to post again before its done.

LS wrote:

(36 hours ago)
Deadline is in /6/ days.

What?

@Ph0x, it turns out I'm still connected to my internet... I thought I would d/c again (hasn't been working all day)

@animask

Mmm good point there. I made that statement because I felt you were implying that Rolled was a townie when you said "but accusing people of having one isn't a pro-town thing to do".

I was trying to say it on a more generic level though. Ie: In general, any townie wouldn't accuse you of an aux role this early in the game.

^ Clearly holds an aux role.

FoS: Ph0x

Why exactly would you want to "imply"/"show" that someone is a power role?

NoHItter wrote:

FoS: Ph0x

Why exactly would you want to "imply"/"show" that someone is a power role?

Pretty sure that was a joke.

Gah why do I find you suspicious in every game we're in >_>

Also, why did you vote animask for saying WIFOM things when you said yourself that he says those kind of comments regardless of his role?

0_o wrote:

Also, why did you vote animask for saying WIFOM things when you said yourself that he says those kind of comments regardless of his role?

Remember when I said that I don't really use meta as a basis for suspicion/exemption.
What animask said was suspicious and regardless of past play, I opt to vote suspicious players.

Shouldn't the day be done by now...?

(2 days ago)

LadySuburu wrote:

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch. Deadline is in /6/ days.

Unless I read that wrong.

oh whoops, I thought the extension meant that the deadline passed already...

LadySuburu wrote:

8. Voting is back to the normal system.

unvote Rantai, FoS Rantai

That's better.

NoHItter wrote:

FoS: Ph0x

Why exactly would you want to "imply"/"show" that someone is a power role?

I'd say reactions like yours are pretty revealing.

NoHItter wrote:

0_o wrote:

Also, why did you vote animask for saying WIFOM things when you said yourself that he says those kind of comments regardless of his role?

Remember when I said that I don't really use meta as a basis for suspicion/exemption.
What animask said was suspicious and regardless of past play, I opt to vote suspicious players.

Well I disagree with your strategy, but fair enough.

sooooo what's up guys

0_o wrote:

sooooo what's up guys

Chillin'.

Will re-read thread and actually try in a bit.

Any word from the other guys?

This situation has been pretty confusing and I don't know what to say.

Except the fact that NoHItter sounds mildly suspicious.

Firo Prochainezo wrote:

This situation has been pretty confusing and I don't know what to say.

Except the fact that NoHItter sounds mildly suspicious.

Would you care to explain why you find me suspicious?

NoHItter is being very tryhard, hiding behind the "WIFOM is never useful" shield.

NoHItter wrote:

animask, you aren't supposed to make comments like those. They're just WIFOM.
FoS: animask

NoHItter wrote:

0_o wrote:

It's funny because I was this close to posting the same thing.

Yea. Statements like those are very WIFOM.
Generally we should avoid WIFOM, but there are some cases where WIFOM is unavoidable.

NoHItter wrote:

FoS: Ph0x

Why exactly would you want to "imply"/"show" that someone is a power role?

(I don't know if Firo came to the same conclusion as me. Just stating my thoughts of NoHItter after a re-read.)

Vote: NoHItter

0_o, what are your thoughts on DxS's rolefishing post?

I don't need to repeat what Ph0X said.

Vote: NoHItter

After re-reading the last few pages, I can really see how NoHItter is being suspicious.

FoS NoHItter

He seems to actually be using WIFOM and at the same time claiming that using WIFOM is useless.

animask wrote:

He seems to actually be using WIFOM and at the same time claiming that using WIFOM is useless.

Example?

Ph0X wrote:

0_o, what are your thoughts on DxS's rolefishing post?

I have no idea what's going through DxS's mind most of the time. It doesn't make sense for either a pro-town OR mafia player to say, since it's not only rolefishing but blatantly obvious rolefishing. So my official opinion: no idea.

Ph0X wrote:

NoHItter is being very tryhard, hiding behind the "WIFOM is never useful" shield.

So you find me saying that WIFOM is bad more suspicious than DxS rolefishing, or animask using WIFOM?

Firo Prochainezo wrote:

I don't need to repeat what Ph0X said.

Vote: NoHItter

So you say that the only reason you're voting me is for what Ph0x said, and that you agreed on it?

animask wrote:

He seems to actually be using WIFOM and at the same time claiming that using WIFOM is useless.

How am I using WIFOM? Show me the part when I am.

NoHItter wrote:

Ph0X wrote:

NoHItter is being very tryhard, hiding behind the "WIFOM is never useful" shield.

So you find me saying that WIFOM is bad more suspicious than DxS rolefishing, or animask using WIFOM?

Yes.

I don't really have an example.

I just get the feeling that his previous posts could benefit possible future acts of WIFOM.

My FoS was me agreeing with the suspicions that everyone placed on NoHItter.

Also, where's Rantai? I only unvoted for him because I thought it was too early to finalize a vote.

Addition to last post...

The entire "WIFOM is never useful" statement gave me an idea that NoHItter will sneak in some WIFOM later in the game.

I don't have much to add at this point...

But I don't really see how NoHItter is being overly suspicious, just aggressive.

Before I go further though can someone explain to me exactly what WIFOM represents, I read about it but would like some clarification.

Haneii wrote:

Vote: No Lynch

No lynch is not beneficial in this situation, especially since it's a relatively small game and there aren't many lynch opportunities.

Rantai wrote:

Before I go further though can someone explain to me exactly what WIFOM represents, I read about it but would like some clarification.

Here's a simple example: your friend puts his hands behind his back and tells you he his holding a dollar in one of them. Pick the right hand and you win the dollar - if not, you owe him a dollar. He then says "the dollar is in my right hand". Which hand do you choose? You might think "well he wouldn't actually say that if it was in his right hand", but then again, what if he knew you would think that so he actually DID put it in his right hand? But what if he knew that you would think THAT... and it keeps going. Thus, "the dollar is in my right hand" is a WIFOM statement.

I dunno what you've read already, but this page explains it pretty well I think.

tl;dr

There is risk in WIFOM and something is said that attempts to
make a player choose between a few options.

I think that's it...

Ahh thanks, that clears a lot up.

Well then continuing...

I don't understand what Ph0X is trying to do here because as far as I can tell, thinking that WIFOM is bad, isn't something I'd associate with suspicion. If anything, it's just an opinion being expressed and used.

So;

Ph0X wrote:

So you find me saying that WIFOM is bad more suspicious than DxS rolefishing, or animask using WIFOM?

Yes.[/quote]

I'd like to ask why, so I can understand your viewpoint.

*Useless doublepost*

I want to fix that quote so badly...

@0_o

I can't decide on who to vote for T_T

I don't really see how NoHitter's posts/behavior indicate he's mafia. I find Ph0x more suspicious for using those reasons to vote NoHitter.

currently: FoS on animask, DxS and Ph0x, but not based on much :/

....lynching NoHitter would make things clearer. Unethical though + rather not risk lowering our numbers (There's a chance more than one person might die tonight...dun dun duuun)

But lynching is are only weapon for eliminating Mafia (apart from a Vig).
I highly doubt Mafia will kill themselves during the Night.

@Haneii, not lynching on the first day has the benefit of increasing
the odds of finding a mafia member the next day (after NK). If we
vote and end up lynching a pro-town today, we willl have better chances
of finding a mafia member next day. Also, the suspect that we are all voting
for will get the chance to somehow defend themselves to reclaim their
pro-town status (possibly). We can analyze their defense to decide if they're
guilty or not.

Also, not all suspicious behavior leads to being mafia.

Am I only being FoS'd because of my "less suspicious makes me more suspicious" WIFOM statement?

Hello Mafia game. I apologize for lack of interest, but I went and re-read the thread a couple of times and here's some input.

First and foremost, I'm alarmed nobody prodded me. I could definitely over analyze this and find the people with the most to gain from not prodding, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume you guys just don't give a shit ^___^

Back to page 2:

animask wrote:

I never get to be mafia D:

Confirmed.

Luckily for animask, this statement got ignored as the day went on. The only person that has tried to make a case out of it is NoHitter, and truthfully I agree with him. A statement like this is beyond a newbie's mistake of speaking their mind. Pulling the numbers out of my ass, I'd assume something like this is more probable to have some kind of reverse-psychology behind it from a player of animask's level. +10 animask.

Page 4:

Rantai wrote:

I doubt any townie would jump on you if they suspected you have an aux role.

animask wrote:

@Rantai, (FoS) Who said that he was a townie? You're not supposed to assume that..

Ph0x wrote:

Rentai, however, is implicitly claiming that Rolled has a certain role.

My immediate thought behind this, is how is Rantai's statement implying that I am town? @phox, saying Rantai was implying I'm town is WIFOM. The statement could just as easily mean "Animask, you're aux and Rolled is mafia" just as much as "Animask, Rolled is town and thinks you are mafia." I feel like I'm missing something that is apparent to other players, so please fill me in if so.

DxS wrote:

So....any ideas if we can assume what role animask is?

Immediately appears to me that DxS is looking for a bandwagon to hop on, which isn't really a pro-town thing to do at this point. Though, his later statement shows his belief (fact or fictional) to be that animask is pro-town, which somewhat counters this argument.

Haneii wrote:

Furthermore, you spent your past posts explaining how assuming/accusing someone of a role this early in the game isn't pro-town. DxS was just role fishing + expressed his thoughts about you having a pro aux role or being a plain town member. Yet, after all that, you suspect and vote Rantai?

A very good point, and I agree with Haneii's line of thinking. I feel the reason that animask held his vote, obviously, is because DxS is voicing his opinion that animask is pro-town (which is gathered out of thin air) -5 Haneii since I'm in agreement with him.

Ph0x wrote:

There's a difference here. DxS isn't claiming (explicitly or implicitly) that animask has a role. Rentai, however, is implicitly claiming that Rolled has a certain role. (I personally don't share this view with animask; I am just expressing my thoughts about your FoS.)

This is wrong, and is an attempt to undermine Haneii's way of thinking.
DxS is explicitly claiming that animask is pro-town.
Rantai is implicitly claiming that I have a role. (which I don't agree with, but for sake of this argument let's assume)
Haneii's FoS is completely valid in this situation. +5 ph0x for not acknowledging this.

Page 7 ^_^:

Firo wrote:

This situation has been pretty confusing and I don't know what to say.

Except the fact that NoHItter sounds mildly suspicious.

One of those annoying Quarezahasshsa-ish posts. No backing or reasoning behind it, and one of the few posts Firo has made.
NoHitter had all of the right in the world to ask for Firo's logic behind his reasoning, and Ph0x answered NoHitter's question for Firo.

Ph0x, I don't feel it was your time to speak after NoHitter asked Firo a question. All you successfully accomplished was an easy cop-out for Firo, when it was a strong possibility he would not be able to word an explanation of his own. Turns out, he simply did use your reasoning to justify his vote for NoHitter. +5 ph0x, +5 Firo.

As far as NoHitter's playstyle, (non-meta, wifom sucks etc) I don't necessarily agree with it either (everything is wifom~). Does this make him suspicious, though? Not in my eyes.

Final tally from this textwall:
Animask: +10
Ph0x: +10
Firo: +5
Heneii: -5
Also like to FoS DxS for never giving his reasoning behind his belief in animask's innocence. Don't feel like adding a point value, so meh.
I'm going to cast my vote for animask. While he is tied with ph0x, ph0x has gathered the majority of his points from defending players who I don't feel are necessarily mafia. I feel there's a fine line between needlessly defending players, and voicing your opinion about said player, and ph0x crossed it in a few occasions.

No, fuck that. Taking the riskier route.
unvote
Vote: Ph0x

About my no lynch: yes, most of you are right about lynching being our main weapon + increases our chances of finding mafia (although that's just chance + probability...I hate making decisions when I'm not sure XD). But I already had an idea of who might be mafia and with the day almost ending (6 days past btw) it looked like NoHitter would be lynced - someone who I believe is town. I thought, 'If the day ends without most of us voting, will the mod assume they're voting for a no lynch? (I prob shouldn't make assumptions like that )'. So if that was the case, I'd just help make that the majority vote. Why not vote for someone on my FoS list? Again, looked like the day would end any min and I'd prob be the only person voting in a such a way . I was worried that if I do it would let NoHitter get lynched. Hopefully that 1 kill at night + maybe some information from an investigative role will help make a better decision, because at that point I didn't think my suspicions were warranted...

...However, now rolled posts. He not only agrees and pointed out all the reasons for my FoS list, gives me even more reasons that I haven't thought about (especially in Ph0x's case). I think I am now confident enough to:

Unvote

Vote: Ph0x

Rantai wrote:

I don't understand what Ph0X is trying to do here because as far as I can tell, thinking that WIFOM is bad, isn't something I'd associate with suspicion. If anything, it's just an opinion being expressed and used.

So;

Ph0X wrote:

> So you find me saying that WIFOM is bad more suspicious than DxS rolefishing, or animask using WIFOM?
Yes.

I'd like to ask why, so I can understand your viewpoint.

(Formatting kinda corrected.)
The fact that NoHItter argues against WIFOMic statements isn't why I find him suspicious. The fact that NoHItter abuses that same argument continually and tries very hard to attack other players using "your argument is invalid" techniques is why I find him suspicious.

I don't disagree with NoHItter's arguments. I just find them to be forced.

Rolled wrote:

First and foremost, I'm alarmed nobody prodded me. I could definitely over analyze this and find the people with the most to gain from not prodding, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume you guys just don't give a shit ^___^

You didn't seem very attached to the game from the start, so I decided not to bother you (in short). Seems I was mistaken.

inb4 some retarded Two logic about me not wanting you to be around to benefit myself.

Rolled wrote:

Page 4:

Rantai wrote:

I doubt any townie would jump on you if they suspected you have an aux role.

animask wrote:

@Rantai, (FoS) Who said that he was a townie? You're not supposed to assume that..

Ph0x wrote:

Rentai, however, is implicitly claiming that Rolled has a certain role.

My immediate thought behind this, is how is Rantai's statement implying that I am town? @phox, saying Rantai was implying I'm town is WIFOM. The statement could just as easily mean "Animask, you're aux and Rolled is mafia" just as much as "Animask, Rolled is town and thinks you are mafia." I feel like I'm missing something that is apparent to other players, so please fill me in if so.

The way I saw it:

Rentai reads animask's post as, "You [Rolled] might be secretly assuming I [animask] have an aux role, but accusing people of having one isn't a pro-town thing to do." Rentai responds, "I doubt any townie [Rolled] would jump on you [animask] if they suspected you [animask] have an aux role."

The "any townie [Rolled]" part is what I was referring to as "implicitly claiming".

Rolled wrote:

Ph0x wrote:

There's a difference here. DxS isn't claiming (explicitly or implicitly) that animask has a role. Rentai, however, is implicitly claiming that Rolled has a certain role. (I personally don't share this view with animask; I am just expressing my thoughts about your FoS.)

This is wrong, and is an attempt to undermine Haneii's way of thinking.
DxS is explicitly claiming that animask is pro-town.
Rantai is implicitly claiming that I have a role. (which I don't agree with, but for sake of this argument let's assume)
Haneii's FoS is completely valid in this situation. +5 ph0x for not acknowledging this.

Realized I missed this post by DxS. Either way, though, there is a difference in how DxS and Rentai handled things.

A direct argument against Haneii's is: maybe DxS is right and animask doesn't want to vote for him because of this. (Saying this from animask's perspective, of course.)

Rolled wrote:

NoHitter had all of the right in the world to ask for Firo's logic behind his reasoning, and Ph0x answered NoHitter's question for Firo.

Ph0x, I don't feel it was your time to speak after NoHitter asked Firo a question. All you successfully accomplished was an easy cop-out for Firo, when it was a strong possibility he would not be able to word an explanation of his own. Turns out, he simply did use your reasoning to justify his vote for NoHitter. +5 ph0x, +5 Firo.

I wasn't expanding upon Firo's post. I even said this in my post:

Ph0X wrote:

(I don't know if Firo came to the same conclusion as me. Just stating my thoughts of NoHItter after a re-read.)

I find Firo's following post kind of awkward, though.

Rolled wrote:

While he is tied with ph0x, ph0x has gathered the majority of his points from defending players who I don't feel are necessarily mafia. I feel there's a fine line between needlessly defending players, and voicing your opinion about said player, and ph0x crossed it in a few occasions.

I was poking at a player's argument in each instance I was "defending" someone. It's how I always play.

Haneii wrote:

I thought, 'If the day ends without most of us voting, will the mod assume they're voting for a no lynch? (I prob shouldn't make assumptions like that )'. So if that was the case, I'd just help make that the majority vote.

Please read the rules:

Rules wrote:

9. A lynch occurs when a player has an absolute majority of votes on them.

10. At deadline, the player with the most votes is lynched. In the event of a draw, the player who had the most votes before being tied will be lynched.

Rules wrote:

9. A lynch occurs when a player has an absolute majority of votes on them.

10. At deadline, the player with the most votes is lynched. In the event of a draw, the player who had the most votes before being tied will be lynched.

[/quote]

So does that mean, in the case where majority hasn't voted, majority vote would be no vote (no lynch)?

or

those who don't vote by the end of the day lose their say/vote and the person with the most votes at the time gets lynched?