jioyi - cyanine [OsuMania]

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Topic Starter
Rivals_7
your statement is true for Most Hitsound. What you against is a reversed hitsound. Reversed means it comes from low to high.



1st is the reversed HS. 2nd one is the usual HS that mappers used the most (+ delay. for comparison). if its start in its prominent peak, i should cut the rest of the HS buildup noise? tbh thats just ugly and defeat the purposes of what "reverse hitsound" should be


Rev HS simply act as an accompany rhythm along with the song. imo that gives an unusual vibe that is almost not present in ike..... anywhere

Here's why a delay are necessary
take an example of LR_RevCyHLWX.wav.( - 02:42:546 - ) which has 140 ms delay as you said. The peak is around 1,8 seconds after the hitsound (which is on SB) are placed. somewhere around - 02:44:194 - here. say if i cut that delay, the wav is now around +-1665 ms. that leaves around 130 ms from the original and will result the peak of hitsound is happened way too early than it should be, this is relevant with the pattern i did and reflect it.

the possible solution that i need to move the said SB hitsound into 140 ms later. that will be around 02:42:686. but the thing is, 686 doesnt land in any snap even the 1/16. That still leaves around 4 ms to the nearest 1/16 line (690) so i need to cut that further, but the thing is the hitsound will have some unecessary cutout. might not really noticeable but imo that deletes the aesthetics purposes.
I could actually place the HS on 686 but that requires the internal editing on .osu files, which is itself an unrankable thing.
>Do not manually edit anything in an .osu file that cannot be changed through the Editor.

another solution is to move it to - 02:42:669 - which is another nearest snap from 686 (one line below). but that will still leaves 17 ms of delay.
This is the most possible another workaround to minimalize but this doesnt change anything. in the end, the delay still there

if we actually see hows the RC worded it
>Hitsounds must have an acceptable range of delay under 5ms. Every hitsound file should start in time, preferrably at 0ms. This is to ensure that every map doesn't sound mistimed, and therefore could provide acceptably synchronized rhythm feedback to players.

1. Does these hitsound sounds mistimed to you? the peaks land exactly on time, as i have said before.
2. Does these HS make the player confused when played? they are landed correctly where i want it to be. reflecting the pattern i did

the purpose of this RC is that the thing i bolded. these HS meet both the criteria. so this is technically not a delay

if you do arguing "Then every HS could have a delay" think of consequences when its played. if you mapping anime song with a constant drumline, but you put the delayed 5 ms Drum HS too in there, when played, there will be some awkward synchronize. this is due to human reflects is not always at 0ms, thats impossible. even more impossible that you need to do it consistently. except auto ofc.
Its also why most of the Rev HS are on SB so it will played no matter you hit it or not, except for some occasion where I intendedly dont put it on SB like LR_RevCyITV on - 02:44:194 (164194|2) - but it relatively easy to hit so you wont miss it.
Asherz007
Right, time to address this hitsound thing.

[Hitsounds]

Ranking Criteria wrote:

Hitsounds must be in .wav. Hitsounds in .wav format are preferred, as .mp3 files will not loop correctly and have a short delay, between 0ms and 20ms, but .mp3 is allowed only for a special purpose for the beatmap, like the usage of reverse cymbal that have delay on the start. Note that using ogg is unrankable.
So yeah, in this point (albeit a tiny bit obscure), pretty much the only circumstance where hitsounds can have delays on them is through them being reversed hitsounds, which can also be .mp3s, oddly enough.

In any case, having the silence on the front of these specific hitsounds adds very little in terms of size to the file; removing this does cause difficulties elsewhere in terms of properly places these hitsounds so that the peaks fall in the right place:

Rivals_7 wrote:

I could actually place the HS on 686 but that requires the internal editing on .osu files, which is itself an unrankable thing.
>Do not manually edit anything in an .osu file that cannot be changed through the Editor.
By the way, although it looks backwards, there are ways you can move things into the storyboard with the end result being those hitsounds appearing unsnapped (like temporary red lines), so in all technicalities unsnapped sb objects wouldn't be unrankable (as they're not meant to be anything that affects gameplay), just weird.

[Keysounds]
Okay, my turn to complain, I guess lol. Spotted a keysound inaccuracy and wondering whether this was meant to be intentional or something since it does create a clash, albeit not heard that much because of how short the note I spotted was. (Also prot is hopeless with verifying keysound accuracy, and juan is juan)

Time for some music theory to support this I guess (man how many times I've had to use some of that this week). Using the top difficulty for reference since that's where everything is more easily accessible. Some of it is for keysounds in general, some specifcally for that difficulty.

I dunno whether this starting bit you're trying to emulate the audio 1:1 or have the keysounds be additional to the audio, but since it seems to be kinda both at the same time, I'll address my issues nonetheless:

  1. 00:06:613 (6613|2) - Would personally drop this down an octave to B5, because musically jumping around between several octaves generally doesn't make a lot of sense to a musician, but either is justifiable here.
  2. 00:07:602 (7602|3,7602|0) - D6 (audio has this)
  3. 00:08:261 (8261|2,8261|3) - G5/B5 (G6 is too high compared to what the audio has)
  4. 00:08:591 (8591|0) - B4 (audio has this)
  5. 00:10:239 (10239|1) - more or less in an identical phrase to at 00:02:327 (2327|0), so I would have thought this would have been a G5 as well?
  6. 00:15:514 (15514|2,16503|1) - Perhaps a little odd there's no E6 and D#6 respectively here, given that you do try and follow the upper register with 00:16:393 (16393|3,16448|2).


I'd say some stuff about the storyboarded hi-hats, but they make sense in the context of the song so that's fine I guess.

00:45:623 (45623|2) - Okay. So what we have here in the music is a chord transition from E minor to D major and then to C# minor. In any of these three chords, F is essentially dissonant since it doesn't fit within the musical scales associated with each chord. Also, the audio reflects this accurately, hence this should really be an F#6.

00:45:678 (45678|3,45843|0,45843|3) - I feel like hitsound prioritisation got a little weird here since it's the keysounds that are in the main field here and the percussion hitsounds are in the storyboard. For the majority of the map, this is generally the other way around, so I'm wondering whether this was intentional. That said, the hi-hat is in play at 00:45:678 (45678|3)

00:48:315 (48315|3) - A6 (audio has that)
00:49:140 (49140|3) - also A6

00:57:711 - A bit odd that some of the keysounds are storyboarded here even though that's what you're focusing on.

Not DQing here for this since it's subjective in a sense; I want to see what you think about all of this.

While I'm here, I'm going to inquire about why Aste's diff is hp8.5.

Time to bash prot then
Topic Starter
Rivals_7

Asherz007 wrote:

Right, time to address this hitsound thing.

[Hitsounds]

Ranking Criteria wrote:

Hitsounds must be in .wav. Hitsounds in .wav format are preferred, as .mp3 files will not loop correctly and have a short delay, between 0ms and 20ms, but .mp3 is allowed only for a special purpose for the beatmap, like the usage of reverse cymbal that have delay on the start. Note that using ogg is unrankable.
So yeah, in this point (albeit a tiny bit obscure), pretty much the only circumstance where hitsounds can have delays on them is through them being reversed hitsounds, which can also be .mp3s, oddly enough. right, i forgot to mention this earlier. i'm tardy on reading

In any case, having the silence on the front of these specific hitsounds adds very little in terms of size to the file; removing this does cause difficulties elsewhere in terms of properly places these hitsounds so that the peaks fall in the right place:

Rivals_7 wrote:

I could actually place the HS on 686 but that requires the internal editing on .osu files, which is itself an unrankable thing.
>Do not manually edit anything in an .osu file that cannot be changed through the Editor.
By the way, although it looks backwards, there are ways you can move things into the storyboard with the end result being those hitsounds appearing unsnapped (like temporary red lines), so in all technicalities unsnapped sb objects wouldn't be unrankable (as they're not meant to be anything that affects gameplay), just weird. i dont want this to be cluttered by tons of line so :d

[Keysounds]
Okay, my turn to complain, I guess lol. Spotted a keysound inaccuracy and wondering whether this was meant to be intentional or something since it does create a clash, albeit not heard that much because of how short the note I spotted was. (Also prot is hopeless with verifying keysound accuracy, and juan is juan)

Time for some music theory to support this I guess (man how many times I've had to use some of that this week). Using the top difficulty for reference since that's where everything is more easily accessible. Some of it is for keysounds in general, some specifcally for that difficulty.

I dunno whether this starting bit you're trying to emulate the audio 1:1 or have the keysounds be additional to the audio, but since it seems to be kinda both at the same time, I'll address my issues nonetheless:

  1. 00:06:613 (6613|2) - Would personally drop this down an octave to B5, because musically jumping around between several octaves generally doesn't make a lot of sense to a musician, but either is justifiable here.
  2. 00:07:602 (7602|3,7602|0) - D6 (audio has this)
  3. 00:08:261 (8261|2,8261|3) - G5/B5 (G6 is too high compared to what the audio has)
  4. 00:08:591 (8591|0) - B4 (audio has this)
  5. 00:10:239 (10239|1) - more or less in an identical phrase to at 00:02:327 (2327|0), so I would have thought this would have been a G5 as well?
  6. 00:15:514 (15514|2,16503|1) - Perhaps a little odd there's no E6 and D#6 respectively here, given that you do try and follow the upper register with 00:16:393 (16393|3,16448|2).


i checked this all. if i remember these correctly i remember that i slightly change these octaves and stuff in order for it to not being too blended. is not too far off in a common sense i believe, nor that affect the gameplay wise, since not everyone is a musician.

I'd say some stuff about the storyboarded hi-hats, but they make sense in the context of the song so that's fine I guess.

00:45:623 (45623|2) - Okay. So what we have here in the music is a chord transition from E minor to D major and then to C# minor. In any of these three chords, F is essentially dissonant since it doesn't fit within the musical scales associated with each chord. Also, the audio reflects this accurately, hence this should really be an F#6. to be honest....really, i dont heard any much different. i'm not really sure why 1164530434 using an F6 but still technically right in a sense imo. same octave, same chord.

00:45:678 (45678|3,45843|0,45843|3) - I feel like hitsound prioritisation got a little weird here since it's the keysounds that are in the main field here and the percussion hitsounds are in the storyboard. For the majority of the map, this is generally the other way around, so I'm wondering whether this was intentional. That said, the hi-hat is in play at 00:45:678 (45678|3) probably because of the hitsound copier that usually copy the highest HS volume to the note, and the rest are copied to SB, but sometimes derped. idk how

00:48:315 (48315|3) - A6 (audio has that)
00:49:140 (49140|3) - also A6 A6 feels barely audible to me. Plus all that percussion overshadowed over them making A6 even harder to heard

00:57:711 - A bit odd that some of the keysounds are storyboarded here even though that's what you're focusing on. same comment about copier xd

Not DQing here for this since it's subjective in a sense; I want to see what you think about all of this.

While I'm here, I'm going to inquire about why Aste's diff is hp8.5. Because he want to? p/6339506 i assume its because of its unusual way of he mapped it (mostly melody focused)

Time to bash prot then pls dont. pat her instead because good will would come if you pat the holy sheep of ET-ness
pls dont dq because i'm already feel bad for bothering prot and juan for my greed :c (juan would be busy for SOFT tho)
Thanks for taking a look btw :3c
No_sync
Is all good for me then, thanks for the explanation Rivals and Ash. Good luck! :)




why the bash meme all the sudden? x_x
Toaph Daddy
Alright here we go
Why do I feel the need to do this so bad
God I don't like this

Ok so. First thing, I feel this map, in general, is extraordinarily boring. You mapped things in the safest, most boring possible way in many sections, outright ignore melody in favor of percussion that sometimes can't even be heard in comparison, its inconsistent within itself, tries too hard to be interesting (I'll probably rant about the SV usage in this when I go over this thing), and dumbs itself down in favor of playing easier.

Let's look at some examples of some of these things I just listed

Let's start with consistency

00:01:997 - you ignored this sound and 00:09:909 - while paying attention to the sound at 00:04:964 - and 00:08:591 - (inconsistent within itself, this is extremely minor though)
00:11:228 - Not a double while literally two notes later theres a double on the same sound.
I probably won't mention any more stuff in this slow intro thing. It needs work

00:19:057 (19057|1) - Why is this mapped? To make it flow better? Cuz theres no sound there

00:19:469 (19469|1,19469|0,19469|3) - no discernable difference between this and 00:19:799 (19799|2,19799|0,19799|3) - despite being noticeably different sounds

00:23:013 (23013|0) - Same as before

00:23:425 (23425|1,23425|0,23425|3) - see above in relation to 00:23:755 (23755|2,23755|1,23755|3) -

00:25:486 - So you decided to not map this note despite doing it before?

Not mentioning any more consistency issues for that section. Please look over this. Also those LNs feel awkward to me being used in that way. This method of using long notes will eventually lead me to another point I'll be bringing up later which mostly has to do with you arbitrarily switching between mapping using lns and mapping without using lns.

00:31:420 (31420|2,31502|1,31585|3) - I don't see a point in deviating from the already established trill thing you were doing, which legitimately made sense and was somewhat interesting

00:32:986 (32986|2,32986|1,32986|3,33151|3,33151|2,33151|0) - Why did you make these two different hands. Why not make them both [234] hands. They are literally the same exact sound and have no reason being different.

00:40:898 (40898|2,40898|1,40898|3,41227|1,41227|3,41227|2) - Not really an inconsistency mod but why are these not extended to be full 1/2 lns. There is no sound here that doesn't end on the 1/2 note tick

00:45:760 (45760|1) - This is a ghost note

Ok I'm, going to take a break from this inconsistency stuff for a second.



Are you actually serious?????

What even is this?

1) There is no discernable difference between the heavier percussion sounds and the main melody (which seems to be something you entirely focused on for everything before this section)

2) This is actually the most boring and simple choice you could have made for this section, and may actually be the most boring part of the map

3) It initially implies that 3-note jump jacks will be the focus of the section and then deviates from that.

4) 3-note jacks are actually what make the most sense here

5) This section is way dumbed down presumably because jAcKs ArE HaRd

6) The SVs are actually worthless and seems like they were used solely because you realized this section was boring and wanted to "spice it up"

This literally follows all but one of my general complaints about the map.

Back to general mods/inconsistency stuff

00:57:711 (57711|3,58205|0,58700|2) - hold on you can't be serious. This is literally not an audible sound. So you made it so the hitsounds were the only thing that these notes were mapped to. That is ridiculous. Its almost like you wanted to attempt a hitsound job like imperishable night but only for 3 notes. Why???

01:08:260 (68260|3,68260|2,68260|0,68754|0,68754|1,69249|1,69249|2) - Both notes being held at a given time change pitch for each one and have eqaully emphatic percussion hits attached, so there isn't much of a reason to connect the LNs like this as opposed to making them all separate LN hand things

01:15:513 - I don't know why but I highly dislike this choice here. It ust feels a bit weird idk

01:16:172 (76172|3,76172|0,76667|2,76667|1,77161|2,77161|0) - Noticeable weaker synth and percussion, mapped exactly the same

01:33:809 (93809|1) - This ln should start at 01:33:645 -

01:29:359 -
Ok I'm gonna go back to right here, where this section starts.
I don't know if mapping every 1/2 note is necessary. There are much more noticeable sounds that you seem to ignore (since you seem to be going for the melody + claps + kicks), namely the bass hit or whatever you want to call it. Plus there really isn't much of a discernable sound on every 1/2 beat that justifies this kind of mapping.
01:39:908 - HERE However, there is an extremely noticeable and loud percussion sound happening every 1/4 beat. This section should be noticeably different in terms of density/structure/patterning so that a transition through the obviously increasing intensity of the song can be seen and felt by players


01:49:139 - So I don't really like this but i guess its not necessarily bad. It doesn't go against any ideas or anything, so w/e. Theres something tipping me off a bit though, w/e

01:53:095 - Alright here comes more boring stuff.
Why
Like
Honestly
Why
This, in no way, has any understandable reasoning for being extremely basic jumpstream/handstream. Especially since the rest of the chart is literally the same way. I can understand that doing other stuff with rice patterns would likely cause a ruckus with "ghost note" arguments or whatever but like, c'mon. It doesn't increase the difficulty of anything outside of some basically neglidgeable SVs that are literally only mapped to the large percussion kicks and the transition sounds. It takes arguably the most intense part of the song (which also highly deviates from the rest of the song) and makes it change nothing about what has already been presented to us.

Might I also add that, because of the nature of the types of SVs you are trying to use here, the section flows incredibly poorly, with the drum kicks serving only as interruptions to a part where they are really cohesive with the general tone of the section of music.
The way I personally would fix it is to make it so that instead of trying too hard to normalize the separation of the notes to a 1x scroll speed, just weaken the jump and then keep it going (what i mean is that you'd start with a weakened SV for the jump, say 1.25x or something or whatever works, and immediately follow it with a 1x so that it doesnt "stop" the scrolling and merely causes the notes to jump forward as a result of an extremely intense sound, which ultimately allows for the song to flow much better and even poses a challenge to players)

I won't mention any more about the whole boring aspect of this section or same-y nature of it, but will focus now on other stuff thats really weird.

02:02:326 - So some of these LNs don't really fit with the sound of the synth. Specifically, 02:02:491 (122491|3,122573|1,122738|3,122820|1,122985|2) - These 5 seem to be mapped to literally nothing

02:08:919 (128919|3) - Shouldn't this LN be twice as long

02:11:557 - See, to me here, the synth really only deserves 1 LN representing it, whereas you could probably make the second one extended to help represent the background woosh thing. 02:12:051 - Like here, you have the woosh also mapped I would presume, though two of the LNs should be extended to represent this more clearly.

02:13:864 (133864|0,133947|0,134029|2,134112|2) - Why are these minijacks? They don't deviate at all from the 4 notes right before it from my perspective

02:15:183 - Shouldn't be a double

02:16:172 - Shouldn't be a double

02:19:963 (139963|1,139963|0,140128|0,140128|1) - Shouldn't be doubles?

02:20:458 (140458|3,140458|2,140623|2,140623|3) - Same?
Same for the patterns right after it too

02:23:919 (143919|0,144002|1,144084|2,144167|0,144167|3,144249|1,144331|2,144414|3) - What was the logic behind this pattern? There is nothing supporting it, in fact, the synth only sounds on every 1/2 beat, not every 1/4th beat, so some of the LNs before it are also representing essentially nothing

02:24:743 - sag hjsrklgb hjkedr;gke God I'm overreacting to this but it feels so weird to just completely ignore the extremely loud synth in favor of only mapping the percussion. Like honestly. I understand that there technically isn't anything wrong for the kiai but its another case of it feeling so same-y compared to the beginning of the chart despite making noticeably intensity and melody changes.

02:28:452 (148452|1) - Oh is this you trying to map the synth too??? This might just be you accidentally putting a ghost note in but if you want to seem like you are mapping the synth layer it with the percussion that you wanted it to map too at the lease instead of only placing notes that correspond to the synth when literally nothing else is there.

02:25:650 (145650|2) - Speaking of ghost notes I'm heading back a few seconds because this is definitely one regardless of whether you were trying to map the synth or not. This goes for every time there is one of those jump to hand things

02:44:689 - Ok if anything I'm almost certain these should be 1/3 LNs

02:45:842 - Wait what. WHY. Stop trying to make your maps more varied for the sake of having variation. It's LITERALLY THE SAME SOUND. There is no justifiable reason for why you would randomly change the entire structure of the kiai halfway through, other than the fact that the drums (and possibly also the synth) most notably get louder in the second half. Why would you put more emphasis on a completely new sound in the map despite the emphasis relative to the other sound (ie the drums emphasis in comparison to the synth) stays the same? If anything the map should just get denser in general while following the same concept you had developed just prior to it. This is the most effective way to handle something like this, as opposed to changing the entire concept. Not to mention that this second half of the kiai doesn't even stay consistent with mapping the synth sounds to LNs so I don't even know what to say (eg 02:48:974 (168974|3,169057|0,169139|3,169221|0,169304|3,169304|1) - none of these notes having any LN relevancy)

03:01:667 - Not sure why there are 1/4 notes placed between all the jumps tbh, since there isn't a noticeable sound there

03:04:963 - Not a hand?????

03:06:117 (186117|2) - This note definitely shouldn't exist

03:05:787 - Also not sure why you made these all LN shields. Kind of deviates from anything else you do in the map, so it just feels random

God ok I'm done with Ultimate.

I feel like I've said enough for one diff that it should be obvious some amount of discussion should be put forward. I hear so much about how the ranked section is complete garbage, and the fact that maps like this have the capability of making it through while having so many noticeable problems on a single difficulty just blows my mind. I didn't even explain that much about why I don't like 90% of the SVs put in this map. I said some basic general stuff in a couple of mods but I did not even finish what I wanted to say about them. My main point for that likely being related to my hatred of SVs for the sake of SVs, but w/e.


Also, I am really sorry Rivals, if this comes off as aggressive or targeting of you or something, I'm not trying to pinpoint you specifically, its just that I am planning to start doing this to any qualified map that I feel it to be necessary on (which will likely be a lot), and you ended up being the unlucky recipient of my first tear-down.

Also side-note. If anyone reads this and starts pointing at me as some evil modder who hates everything, please know that it is not important to me that you like me as a modder or w/e. I will keep an open mind to things but I will not hesitate to pull you down to fix notable flaws.

Please can we start getting discussions going with how to improve the ranked section, because I would really rather not hear 800 complaints a day about the fact that the system used to hyperadvertise the highest quality beatmaps is full of extremely sub-par or even awful maps.

Thank you
Topic Starter
Rivals_7

TheToaphster wrote:

Alright here we go
Why do I feel the need to do this so bad
God I don't like this

Ok so. First thing, I feel this map, in general, is extraordinarily boring. You mapped things in the safest, most boring possible way in many sections, outright ignore melody in favor of percussion that sometimes can't even be heard in comparison, its inconsistent within itself, tries too hard to be interesting (I'll probably rant about the SV usage in this when I go over this thing), and dumbs itself down in favor of playing easier. i'll be leaving that subjective impression to all who plays, and to all who favouriting. since every opinion varied, i wont say anything

Let's look at some examples of some of these things I just listed

Let's start with consistency

00:01:997 - you ignored this sound and 00:09:909 - while paying attention to the sound at 00:04:964 - and 00:08:591 - (inconsistent within itself, this is extremely minor though) what sound? if there's anything i can hear of is only an echo of the first piano sound. that is almost barely noticeable. The fact that even none of the modder here even mentioned that, this is already explaining that those two point are worthless to be mapped. do note i'm only focusing to the prominent, hearable piano
00:11:228 - Not a double while literally two notes later theres a double on the same sound. - 00:05:294 (5294|3) - look here. same with this
I probably won't mention any more stuff in this slow intro thing. It needs work

00:19:057 (19057|1) - Why is this mapped? To make it flow better? Cuz theres no sound there hihat (not the hitsound. its actually exist)

00:19:469 (19469|1,19469|0,19469|3) - no discernable difference between this and 00:19:799 (19799|2,19799|0,19799|3) - despite being noticeably different sounds how can you tell its "noticeably" different?

00:23:013 (23013|0) - Same as before ^. kinda funny actually, you only mentioned the specific part despite almost all the similar synths have relatively same volume

00:23:425 (23425|1,23425|0,23425|3) - see above in relation to 00:23:755 (23755|2,23755|1,23755|3) - ^

00:25:486 - So you decided to not map this note despite doing it before? if you meant this - 00:21:530 (21530|1) - , its intentional because i did the structure quite different, and so the player could handle these properly.

Not mentioning any more consistency issues for that section. Please look over this. Also those LNs feel awkward to me being used in that way. This method of using long notes will eventually lead me to another point I'll be bringing up later which mostly has to do with you arbitrarily switching between mapping using lns and mapping without using lns.

00:31:420 (31420|2,31502|1,31585|3) - I don't see a point in deviating from the already established trill thing you were doing, which legitimately made sense and was somewhat interesting there's 3 triple (or "hands" if you more comfortable with that term) in-between these transition. okay maybe i still could do the trill but it will be unecessarily heavy with 3 stacks happend in two columns at the same time

00:32:986 (32986|2,32986|1,32986|3,33151|3,33151|2,33151|0) - Why did you make these two different hands. Why not make them both [234] hands. They are literally the same exact sound and have no reason being different. 2nd hands act as an opening to the next section. particularly that works too but i feel the concept is better be like this

00:40:898 (40898|2,40898|1,40898|3,41227|1,41227|3,41227|2) - Not really an inconsistency mod but why are these not extended to be full 1/2 lns. There is no sound here that doesn't end on the 1/2 note tick cymbals sounds slightly longer here. you can notice it more clearly at 25% but generally you should be easily heard it when playing

00:45:760 (45760|1) - This is a ghost note 100% sure this is a piano

Ok I'm, going to take a break from this inconsistency stuff for a second.



Are you actually serious?????

What even is this?

1) There is no discernable difference between the heavier percussion sounds and the main melody (which seems to be something you entirely focused on for everything before this section)

2) This is actually the most boring and simple choice you could have made for this section, and may actually be the most boring part of the map

3) It initially implies that 3-note jump jacks will be the focus of the section and then deviates from that.

4) 3-note jacks are actually what make the most sense here

5) This section is way dumbed down presumably because jAcKs ArE HaRd

6) The SVs are actually worthless and seems like they were used solely because you realized this section was boring and wanted to "spice it up"

This literally follows all but one of my general complaints about the map.
........and then what? looks like you didnt have anything against these in general since you dont even provide solution (and probably i wont even accept because i can imagine how cluttered it will be if i do adding another note to make it hands for the claps)

Back to general mods/inconsistency stuff

00:57:711 (57711|3,58205|0,58700|2) - hold on you can't be serious. This is literally not an audible sound. So you made it so the hitsounds were the only thing that these notes were mapped to. That is ridiculous. Its almost like you wanted to attempt a hitsound job like imperishable night but only for 3 notes. Why??? are you really serious lol. i cant even say anything, (and hey, 2 QAT already coming here and not even both of them mentioned this is being inaudible or anything of sort.) this is 100% hearable i assure you. and thats about it. Go over youtube then head over the video of this song in Lanota, the official chart also map this part. and so does this one.

01:08:260 (68260|3,68260|2,68260|0,68754|0,68754|1,69249|1,69249|2) - Both notes being held at a given time change pitch for each one and have eqaully emphatic percussion hits attached, so there isn't much of a reason to connect the LNs like this as opposed to making them all separate LN hand things there isnt much but one: 2 LNs are to cover a relatively loud-long-noises happen here. tbf only using one LN kinda lost its feel to me

01:15:513 - I don't know why but I highly dislike this choice here. It ust feels a bit weird idk

01:16:172 (76172|3,76172|0,76667|2,76667|1,77161|2,77161|0) - Noticeable weaker synth and percussion, mapped exactly the same only pitch are changing. nothing sounds weaker or stronger. they are equal

01:33:809 (93809|1) - This ln should start at 01:33:645 - its noticeably louder there (and probably a bit arbitrary if i do that since everything here is 1/2)

01:29:359 -
Ok I'm gonna go back to right here, where this section starts.
I don't know if mapping every 1/2 note is necessary. There are much more noticeable sounds that you seem to ignore (since you seem to be going for the melody + claps + kicks), namely the bass hit or whatever you want to call it. Plus there really isn't much of a discernable sound on every 1/2 beat that justifies this kind of mapping.
01:39:908 - HERE However, there is an extremely noticeable and loud percussion sound happening every 1/4 beat. This section should be noticeably different in terms of density/structure/patterning so that a transition through the obviously increasing intensity of the song can be seen and felt by players I strongly disagree with "loud percussion happening every 1/4 beat". apparently the 1/4 is only happening every time 1/2 beat is done, but thats just synth. the percussion will be probably at - 01:43:123 - and - 01:44:441 - here only. but i dont really want since it'lll break the overall concept i want to build here. like, the concept is goes on 1/2 from - 01:39:908 -, then goes 1/4 with the jtrill, then 1/8 with the Jstream


01:49:139 - So I don't really like this but i guess its not necessarily bad. It doesn't go against any ideas or anything, so w/e. Theres something tipping me off a bit though, w/e

01:53:095 - Alright here comes more boring stuff.
Why
Like
Honestly
Why
This, in no way, has any understandable reasoning for being extremely basic jumpstream/handstream. Especially since the rest of the chart is literally the same way. I can understand that doing other stuff with rice patterns would likely cause a ruckus with "ghost note" arguments or whatever but like, c'mon. It doesn't increase the difficulty of anything outside of some basically neglidgeable SVs that are literally only mapped to the large percussion kicks and the transition sounds. It takes arguably the most intense part of the song (which also highly deviates from the rest of the song) and makes it change nothing about what has already been presented to us.

Might I also add that, because of the nature of the types of SVs you are trying to use here, the section flows incredibly poorly, with the drum kicks serving only as interruptions to a part where they are really cohesive with the general tone of the section of music.
The way I personally would fix it is to make it so that instead of trying too hard to normalize the separation of the notes to a 1x scroll speed, just weaken the jump and then keep it going (what i mean is that you'd start with a weakened SV for the jump, say 1.25x or something or whatever works, and immediately follow it with a 1x so that it doesnt "stop" the scrolling and merely causes the notes to jump forward as a result of an extremely intense sound, which ultimately allows for the song to flow much better and even poses a challenge to players)

and what do you even want me to do? make it harder, while the song doesnt really provide me with instrument anymore than this? yeah probably its just the usual handstream/jumpstream (and trill) like before, but then thats why the SV come into play to make it intense. with those SVs you are forced to play more accurately due to the nature of SVs. Players could probably feel the intensity because of SVs although with relatively simple patterning stuff (and the "stop" is okay imo. it doesnt faking the length, so most players will naturally hit the continuous 1/4 with ease)

I won't mention any more about the whole boring aspect of this section or same-y nature of it, but will focus now on other stuff thats really weird.

02:02:326 - So some of these LNs don't really fit with the sound of the synth. Specifically, 02:02:491 (122491|3,122573|1,122738|3,122820|1,122985|2) - These 5 seem to be mapped to literally nothing heard at 100%, the buzz synth(?) pitch change for a moment and those LNs is to cover that

02:08:919 (128919|3) - Shouldn't this LN be twice as long i think that will be too cluttered since i'm also mapping kick 1/2 after

02:11:557 - See, to me here, the synth really only deserves 1 LN representing it, whereas you could probably make the second one extended to help represent the background woosh thing. 02:12:051 - Like here, you have the woosh also mapped I would presume, though two of the LNs should be extended to represent this more clearly. probably, but i dont see anything thats "too wrong" in my current pattern

02:13:864 (133864|0,133947|0,134029|2,134112|2) - Why are these minijacks? They don't deviate at all from the 4 notes right before it from my perspective Jtrill doesnt seem to fit with the song situation. each jacks also mimicking the pitch and why am i making it jacks is to mimick the percussion. trill could works too but i think jacks is more fitting

02:15:183 - Shouldn't be a double

02:16:172 - Shouldn't be a double

02:19:963 (139963|1,139963|0,140128|0,140128|1) - Shouldn't be doubles?

02:20:458 (140458|3,140458|2,140623|2,140623|3) - Same?
Same for the patterns right after it too why? they are all obvious, loud drums

02:23:919 (143919|0,144002|1,144084|2,144167|0,144167|3,144249|1,144331|2,144414|3) - What was the logic behind this pattern? There is nothing supporting it, in fact, the synth only sounds on every 1/2 beat, not every 1/4th beat, so some of the LNs before it are also representing essentially nothing gradual pitch change. there's a slightly pitch change every 1/4 there.

02:24:743 - sag hjsrklgb hjkedr;gke God I'm overreacting to this but it feels so weird to just completely ignore the extremely loud synth in favor of only mapping the percussion. Like honestly. I understand that there technically isn't anything wrong for the kiai but its another case of it feeling so same-y compared to the beginning of the chart despite making noticeably intensity and melody changes.

02:28:452 (148452|1) - Oh is this you trying to map the synth too??? This might just be you accidentally putting a ghost note in but if you want to seem like you are mapping the synth layer it with the percussion that you wanted it to map too at the lease instead of only placing notes that correspond to the synth when literally nothing else is there. if anyhting, thats not synths. its melody. all the synths is already mapped and could be recognized in where i put that loud hihat noises in HS

02:25:650 (145650|2) - Speaking of ghost notes I'm heading back a few seconds because this is definitely one regardless of whether you were trying to map the synth or not. This goes for every time there is one of those jump to hand things ^

02:44:689 - Ok if anything I'm almost certain these should be 1/3 LNs the wubs? .....thats not straight 1/3, nor that the wubs has a distinct start place to be heard. so i'm goes with simplifying to 1/4 secondary synths for the sake of gameplay

02:45:842 - Wait what. WHY. Stop trying to make your maps more varied for the sake of having variation. It's LITERALLY THE SAME SOUND. There is no justifiable reason for why you would randomly change the entire structure of the kiai halfway through, other than the fact that the drums (and possibly also the synth) most notably get louder in the second half. Why would you put more emphasis on a completely new sound in the map despite the emphasis relative to the other sound (ie the drums emphasis in comparison to the synth) stays the same? If anything the map should just get denser in general while following the same concept you had developed just prior to it. This is the most effective way to handle something like this, as opposed to changing the entire concept. Not to mention that this second half of the kiai doesn't even stay consistent with mapping the synth sounds to LNs so I don't even know what to say (eg 02:48:974 (168974|3,169057|0,169139|3,169221|0,169304|3,169304|1) - none of these notes having any LN relevancy)
so apparently you saying that i should make the 2nd kiai the same as 1st but denser? you literally just complaining about being "boring" yet suggesting more boring stuff.
No one stop you to try a new concept for every. section. alone.


03:01:667 - Not sure why there are 1/4 notes placed between all the jumps tbh, since there isn't a noticeable sound there synths

03:04:963 - Not a hand????? too cramped. with all the 1/4 happening

03:06:117 (186117|2) - This note definitely shouldn't exist pointless awkward break. there's also synths. and its LNs to keep consistency

03:05:787 - Also not sure why you made these all LN shields. Kind of deviates from anything else you do in the map, so it just feels random

God ok I'm done with Ultimate.

I feel like I've said enough for one diff that it should be obvious some amount of discussion should be put forward. I hear so much about how the ranked section is complete garbage, and the fact that maps like this have the capability of making it through while having so many noticeable problems on a single difficulty just blows my mind. I didn't even explain that much about why I don't like 90% of the SVs put in this map. I said some basic general stuff in a couple of mods but I did not even finish what I wanted to say about them. My main point for that likely being related to my hatred of SVs for the sake of SVs, but w/e.

I heard it too, but with our current condition right now, not so much we can do. Not everyone is capable to replicate edgy-styled-maps, heavy SVs or anything like that (nor the song is not oftenly have something to support that). things that got popular, is the things that will get the attention the most and eventually become the example of the future maps. its just how community works. Be the change you want by ranking more of your maps so it can be an example later. maybe i'm not the one but hopefully, eventually it will be.

Not every maps could satisfy the whole community. there's always the one who simply dont like it.

your points seems to be heavily biased, and sometime you trying to alternate the concept that mappers did (already a violation to CoC itself). I guess my POV and yours is different towards the song, which is okay but if you start to force your POV to the mapper, thats where you wrong. your words of choice clearly saying that.


Also, I am really sorry Rivals, if this comes off as aggressive or targeting of you or something, I'm not trying to pinpoint you specifically, its just that I am planning to start doing this to any qualified map that I feel it to be necessary on (which will likely be a lot), and you ended up being the unlucky recipient of my first tear-down.

Also side-note. If anyone reads this and starts pointing at me as some evil modder who hates everything, please know that it is not important to me that you like me as a modder or w/e. I will keep an open mind to things but I will not hesitate to pull you down to fix notable flaws.

Please can we start getting discussions going with how to improve the ranked section, because I would really rather not hear 800 complaints a day about the fact that the system used to hyperadvertise the highest quality beatmaps is full of extremely sub-par or even awful maps.

Thank you
thanks for taking a look. sorry if my map doesnt seem to appeal in your eyes. it may not the most standout among the other as well, but this is simply how i portrayed my map towards this song.

PS sorry if there something wrong with my english :d
Gekido-
About to head to sleep so I am only gonna bring up one change (on the 1/3 jack section):

I feel like it would be better to follow something similar to this


For each measure, I think a jump (2 notes) should be used to emphasize the heavier kick sound. The note following that is very light in comparison, thus only needing to be a single note. The third note is a bit heavier than the second, though not quite as heavy as the first. I believe using a jump here, while leading into the first note of the next beat with a jack on one of the columns, seems to flow well (what my example does is between measures, it alternates between hands, so the transition into the next measure doesn't have a jack and the transition is smooth, but this is entirely my opinion). Also with doing something similar to this, you would be able to use a hand (3 notes) on the third beat without having the density be any higher than what you currently have.
Toaph Daddy
Alright this is fun
I really appreciate the fact that you denied literally everything

Ok, this post is going to refute some of the justifications for your patterns, but I'm going to put a focus on specific things. Namely, I am going to ignore any point where my sole argument is that its boring. This includes the intense wub seciton thing at 01:53:095 - , however, I still think my SV statement and suggestion are valid.

Alright and lastly before I start the actual rebuttal, there is one thing I want to explain right now.
I am a modder for this chart, not the mapper. Me pointing out concerns I have with the chart do not neccesitate me giving you suggestions for certain sections, it is fully your responsibility to find a solution when your map is approached with issues.

Anyways, lets start the rebuttal

Rivals_7 wrote:

TheToaphster wrote:

00:01:997 - you ignored this sound and 00:09:909 - while paying attention to the sound at 00:04:964 - and 00:08:591 - (inconsistent within itself, this is extremely minor though) what sound? if there's anything i can hear of is only an echo of the first piano sound. that is almost barely noticeable. The fact that even none of the modder here even mentioned that, this is already explaining that those two point are worthless to be mapped. do note i'm only focusing to the prominent, hearable piano
First off, saying that no modders before me caught this, therefore I shouldn't have to change this, is invalid, given that the whole point of having multiple modders is so that people can catch things that other people didn't. Second off, there are sounds that are clearly audible that, yes, do correlate to what youre calling an "echo" of the first piano note. However, it is important to note that you actually do map notes to sounds that have the exact same volume and intensity, say comparing the sound at 00:01:997 - and the sound at 00:04:964 - . They are the same volume, same intensity, same purpose, but one has a note and one doesn't. This is clearly an inconsistency issue. Whether or not it can be written off as just a small mistake is out of my jurisdiction but is still something I should bring up regardless.


00:11:228 - Not a double while literally two notes later theres a double on the same sound. - 00:05:294 (5294|3) - look here. same with this
Ok? Then that is also a problem? This has no defense for why you do this, only exposing yourself for having this sort of inconsistency.

00:19:057 (19057|1) - Why is this mapped? To make it flow better? Cuz theres no sound there hihat (not the hitsound. its actually exist)
No it doesn't. And if you actually think it doesn I would implore you to listen to it slowed down and compare what you hear to the stuff you mapped right before it.

00:19:469 (19469|1,19469|0,19469|3) - no discernable difference between this and 00:19:799 (19799|2,19799|0,19799|3) - despite being noticeably different sounds how can you tell its "noticeably" different?
I really shouldn't have to explain why this is noticeably different. The second sound you mapped a hand to is louder than the one before, thus deserving of different layering effects, which you didn't do

00:23:013 (23013|0) - Same as before ^. kinda funny actually, you only mentioned the specific part despite almost all the similar synths have relatively same volume
When did we start talking about synth? Also when did we start talking about volume with this stuff? This mod was reffering to the 19:057 mod when it said same, which had nothing to do with synth and everything to do with percussion, an ignorance that I will give the same rebuttal to.

00:23:425 (23425|1,23425|0,23425|3) - see above in relation to 00:23:755 (23755|2,23755|1,23755|3) - ^^

00:25:486 - So you decided to not map this note despite doing it before? if you meant this - 00:21:530 (21530|1) - , its intentional because i did the structure quite different, and so the player could handle these properly. What makes you think the player would have any trouble with the second set if they were able to handle the first set just fine? And also stating that you "changed" the structure of this section despite it not changing in the music enough to justify only supports the lack of quality and consistency

Not mentioning any more consistency issues for that section. Please look over this. Also those LNs feel awkward to me being used in that way. This method of using long notes will eventually lead me to another point I'll be bringing up later which mostly has to do with you arbitrarily switching between mapping using lns and mapping without using lns. Going to still fully support my suggestion here

00:31:420 (31420|2,31502|1,31585|3) - I don't see a point in deviating from the already established trill thing you were doing, which legitimately made sense and was somewhat interesting there's 3 triple (or "hands" if you more comfortable with that term) in-between these transition. okay maybe i still could do the trill but it will be unecessarily heavy with 3 stacks happend in two columns at the same time So I understand what you mean here, Idk I guess it just doesn't really feel right? I'll say that this is something that could stay given the circumstances, though I don't necessarily like the lack of clarity between the three hands given that all three of them are different from each other in terms of sound, though that much might be difficult to avoid here

00:32:986 (32986|2,32986|1,32986|3,33151|3,33151|2,33151|0) - Why did you make these two different hands. Why not make them both [234] hands. They are literally the same exact sound and have no reason being different. 2nd hands act as an opening to the next section. particularly that works too but i feel the concept is better be like this
Eh, I personally disagree with purposely avoiding a more representative pattern in order to lead players into a section despite the transition being relatively easy with respect to the rest of the chart

00:40:898 (40898|2,40898|1,40898|3,41227|1,41227|3,41227|2) - Not really an inconsistency mod but why are these not extended to be full 1/2 lns. There is no sound here that doesn't end on the 1/2 note tick cymbals sounds slightly longer here. you can notice it more clearly at 25% but generally you should be easily heard it when playing
You misunderstood this I think, what I meant is that the sound is longer than what you have mapped. Though this is pretty minor so w/e

00:45:760 (45760|1) - This is a ghost note 100% sure this is a piano Ok no. The last piano sound for this is on 00:45:678 - , and you can definitely tell by listening to the gap between the last piano and the drum hit that begins the next measure

Ok I'm, going to take a break from this inconsistency stuff for a second.



Are you actually serious?????

What even is this?

1) There is no discernable difference between the heavier percussion sounds and the main melody (which seems to be something you entirely focused on for everything before this section)

2) This is actually the most boring and simple choice you could have made for this section, and may actually be the most boring part of the map

3) It initially implies that 3-note jump jacks will be the focus of the section and then deviates from that.

4) 3-note jacks are actually what make the most sense here

5) This section is way dumbed down presumably because jAcKs ArE HaRd

6) The SVs are actually worthless and seems like they were used solely because you realized this section was boring and wanted to "spice it up"

This literally follows all but one of my general complaints about the map.
........and then what? looks like you didnt have anything against these in general since you dont even provide solution (and probably i wont even accept because i can imagine how cluttered it will be if i do adding another note to make it hands for the claps)
This part is extraordinarily important that you fix. It is not good. It is also not my job to give you suggestions for how to fix it. However, I will give you a suggestion on top of Gekido-'s that has already been shared since you seem to be incapable of it on your own.

How about something like this? Ditching the jumps will allow you to make this section more representative of the section of music, incorporate the 3-note jacks like I said would likely fit the best here, and would also let you differentiate between the quiter and louder drum kicks. Not to mention that Gekido-'s also allowed for this while keeping essentially the same note density as yours. Also to note that in mine you *might* (a LOT of emphasis on this might) even be able to put an extra note before each jump and hand to even make my suggestion keep the same density as yours.

Back to general mods/inconsistency stuff

00:57:711 (57711|3,58205|0,58700|2) - hold on you can't be serious. This is literally not an audible sound. So you made it so the hitsounds were the only thing that these notes were mapped to. That is ridiculous. Its almost like you wanted to attempt a hitsound job like imperishable night but only for 3 notes. Why??? are you really serious lol. i cant even say anything, (and hey, 2 QAT already coming here and not even both of them mentioned this is being inaudible or anything of sort.) this is 100% hearable i assure you. and thats about it. Go over youtube then head over the video of this song in Lanota, the official chart also map this part. and so does this one.
Alright lets talk about a couple things. The first is that you literally cannot use the justification that Lanota maps those notes, because we are talking about two completely separate games, the rules of each game's mapping do not correspond to the other. Secondly, listening to it again I do hear the notes. HOWEVER, this does not excuse the fact that 1) the hitsounds make the sound seem like they are more obvious than they are, which isn't necessarily a problem but does make it so that people with hitsounds are forced to play in a different way than people who don't use hitsounds, which is awkward in a map that is not 100% keysounded and 2) it is almost impossible for me to hear the sound on normal volume. I don't know if that's just my hearing but its annoying to have notes correspond to sounds that I literally can't hear. Not to mention that they aren't even represented differently as the get louder, maybe something that could be done by changing the lengths of the LNs?

01:08:260 (68260|3,68260|2,68260|0,68754|0,68754|1,69249|1,69249|2) - Both notes being held at a given time change pitch for each one and have eqaully emphatic percussion hits attached, so there isn't much of a reason to connect the LNs like this as opposed to making them all separate LN hand things there isnt much but one: 2 LNs are to cover a relatively loud-long-noises happen here. tbf only using one LN kinda lost its feel to me Thats not what I suggested. I suggested making it so the LNs aren't connected, and what I mean by that is this:



01:16:172 (76172|3,76172|0,76667|2,76667|1,77161|2,77161|0) - Noticeable weaker synth and percussion, mapped exactly the same only pitch are changing. nothing sounds weaker or stronger. they are equal I would still disagree but w/e not the biggest deal

01:33:809 (93809|1) - This ln should start at 01:33:645 - its noticeably louder there (and probably a bit arbitrary if i do that since everything here is 1/2) I think I had a small debate about something like this in my ranked GD, where someone said that a synth sound started later because the peak of the sound started later than I had it. However, I would say that when it comes to synth, the peak is not as important to follow, since the nature of the sound means the peak will often not be where the sound instinctively starts

01:29:359 -
Ok I'm gonna go back to right here, where this section starts.
I don't know if mapping every 1/2 note is necessary. There are much more noticeable sounds that you seem to ignore (since you seem to be going for the melody + claps + kicks), namely the bass hit or whatever you want to call it. Plus there really isn't much of a discernable sound on every 1/2 beat that justifies this kind of mapping.
01:39:908 - HERE However, there is an extremely noticeable and loud percussion sound happening every 1/4 beat. This section should be noticeably different in terms of density/structure/patterning so that a transition through the obviously increasing intensity of the song can be seen and felt by players I strongly disagree with "loud percussion happening every 1/4 beat". apparently the 1/4 is only happening every time 1/2 beat is done, but thats just synth. the percussion will be probably at - 01:43:123 - and - 01:44:441 - here only. but i dont really want since it'lll break the overall concept i want to build here. like, the concept is goes on 1/2 from - 01:39:908 -, then goes 1/4 with the jtrill, then 1/8 with the Jstream
This one I'm confused about. How could you possibly disagree that the percussion that hits on every 1/4 note isn't noticeably louder starting at 01:39:908 - . It is so obvious that the sound is louder now. I fully stand by my statement, where there should at least be some difference in intensity between this section and the section right before it due to the quick change in percussion volume

02:02:326 - So some of these LNs don't really fit with the sound of the synth. Specifically, 02:02:491 (122491|3,122573|1,122738|3,122820|1,122985|2) - These 5 seem to be mapped to literally nothing heard at 100%, the buzz synth(?) pitch change for a moment and those LNs is to cover that The buzz synth by itself shouldn't add 5 extraneous lns before it. The LN for the buzz sound is totally fine, but the LN stream leading into it is massively overdone.

02:08:919 (128919|3) - Shouldn't this LN be twice as long i think that will be too cluttered since i'm also mapping kick 1/2 after Ok to be fair here it shouldn't be twice as long, only up to the red tick but either way, I'd still say its too short

02:11:557 - See, to me here, the synth really only deserves 1 LN representing it, whereas you could probably make the second one extended to help represent the background woosh thing. 02:12:051 - Like here, you have the woosh also mapped I would presume, though two of the LNs should be extended to represent this more clearly. probably, but i dont see anything thats "too wrong" in my current pattern mfw.

02:13:864 (133864|0,133947|0,134029|2,134112|2) - Why are these minijacks? They don't deviate at all from the 4 notes right before it from my perspective Jtrill doesnt seem to fit with the song situation. each jacks also mimicking the pitch and why am i making it jacks is to mimick the percussion. trill could works too but i think jacks is more fitting I didn't really say anything about jumptrills or anything, imo it would have just been better to see them as single streams rather than minijacks

02:15:183 - Shouldn't be a double

02:16:172 - Shouldn't be a double

02:19:963 (139963|1,139963|0,140128|0,140128|1) - Shouldn't be doubles?

02:20:458 (140458|3,140458|2,140623|2,140623|3) - Same?
Same for the patterns right after it too why? they are all obvious, loud drums I'll give you that. Didn't catch it the first time, was initially thinking that the ones i mentioned were just the same sound as the singles but youre right here

02:23:919 (143919|0,144002|1,144084|2,144167|0,144167|3,144249|1,144331|2,144414|3) - What was the logic behind this pattern? There is nothing supporting it, in fact, the synth only sounds on every 1/2 beat, not every 1/4th beat, so some of the LNs before it are also representing essentially nothing gradual pitch change. there's a slightly pitch change every 1/4 there. I would highly disagree. I would exclaim that, even if there was a minor pitch change every 1/4 beat, it is definitely not significant enough to warrant a completely separate LN

02:28:452 (148452|1) - Oh is this you trying to map the synth too??? This might just be you accidentally putting a ghost note in but if you want to seem like you are mapping the synth layer it with the percussion that you wanted it to map too at the lease instead of only placing notes that correspond to the synth when literally nothing else is there. if anyhting, thats not synths. its melody. all the synths is already mapped and could be recognized in where i put that loud hihat noises in HS I think youre missing the fact that the melody IS the synths, or at least the noticeable ones. Saying that youre not mapping the synths but you are mapping the melody is by itself a false statement because the melody is the synth. Either way its still a notable inconsistency

02:25:650 (145650|2) - Speaking of ghost notes I'm heading back a few seconds because this is definitely one regardless of whether you were trying to map the synth or not. This goes for every time there is one of those jump to hand things ^ Like I said, melody is the synth, and plus, there is literally no sound happening there, not even the synth

02:44:689 - Ok if anything I'm almost certain these should be 1/3 LNs the wubs? .....thats not straight 1/3, nor that the wubs has a distinct start place to be heard. so i'm goes with simplifying to 1/4 secondary synths for the sake of gameplay This one is more subjective I suppose but I still hear them as much slower than 1/4 wubs

02:45:842 - Wait what. WHY. Stop trying to make your maps more varied for the sake of having variation. It's LITERALLY THE SAME SOUND. There is no justifiable reason for why you would randomly change the entire structure of the kiai halfway through, other than the fact that the drums (and possibly also the synth) most notably get louder in the second half. Why would you put more emphasis on a completely new sound in the map despite the emphasis relative to the other sound (ie the drums emphasis in comparison to the synth) stays the same? If anything the map should just get denser in general while following the same concept you had developed just prior to it. This is the most effective way to handle something like this, as opposed to changing the entire concept. Not to mention that this second half of the kiai doesn't even stay consistent with mapping the synth sounds to LNs so I don't even know what to say (eg 02:48:974 (168974|3,169057|0,169139|3,169221|0,169304|3,169304|1) - none of these notes having any LN relevancy)
so apparently you saying that i should make the 2nd kiai the same as 1st but denser? you literally just complaining about being "boring" yet suggesting more boring stuff.
No one stop you to try a new concept for every. section. alone.

First off, yes I am absolutely trying to tell you to make the second half the same as the first half but denser or with some notable increase in intensity. Second off, doing this does the exact opposite of what you think I meant by boring. Making the second half more intense to match with the increased intensity of the song keeps players on their toes and makes sure they aren't sitting in the same stuff despite song development. You could argue that your LNs do this, but my statement from the actual mod that it goes against a vast majority of what you have set up in the rest of the map [/colors]

03:01:667 - Not sure why there are 1/4 notes placed between all the jumps tbh, since there isn't a noticeable sound there Ok sure there are synths but im almost certain they arent on the in-between beats

03:04:963 - Not a hand????? too cramped. with all the 1/4 happening Eh, I don't necessarily agree but w/e

03:06:117 (186117|2) - This note definitely shouldn't exist pointless awkward break. there's also synths. and its LNs to keep consistency 1) It is not a "pointless" awkward break if nothing in the music is supporting the note currently there. 2) The synths tone changes dont defend this in the same way they didnt before

03:05:787 - Also not sure why you made these all LN shields. Kind of deviates from anything else you do in the map, so it just feels random no response?

God ok I'm done with Ultimate.

I feel like I've said enough for one diff that it should be obvious some amount of discussion should be put forward. I hear so much about how the ranked section is complete garbage, and the fact that maps like this have the capability of making it through while having so many noticeable problems on a single difficulty just blows my mind. I didn't even explain that much about why I don't like 90% of the SVs put in this map. I said some basic general stuff in a couple of mods but I did not even finish what I wanted to say about them. My main point for that likely being related to my hatred of SVs for the sake of SVs, but w/e.

I heard it too, but with our current condition right now, not so much we can do. Not everyone is capable to replicate edgy-styled-maps, heavy SVs or anything like that (nor the song is not oftenly have something to support that). things that got popular, is the things that will get the attention the most and eventually become the example of the future maps. its just how community works. Be the change you want by ranking more of your maps so it can be an example later. maybe i'm not the one but hopefully, eventually it will be.

Not every maps could satisfy the whole community. there's always the one who simply dont like it.

your points seems to be heavily biased, and sometime you trying to alternate the concept that mappers did (already a violation to CoC itself). I guess my POV and yours is different towards the song, which is okay but if you start to force your POV to the mapper, thats where you wrong. your words of choice clearly saying that.


Alright lets talk about your final statement here.
1) "not much we can do". Sure there is, you just need to pay more attention to your maps and keep them from deviating from your central ideas with no rhyme or reason. I'm also trying to actively do something to help change the ranked maplist, which is what this mod is trying to at least start for me
2) I never said anything about trying to make "edgy-style" SVs in your map, nor did I even suggest any changes to your SVs outside of one situiation which was to improve the flow of the section, not to make them "edgy", whatever that means
3) "Be the change you want by ranking more of your maps so it can be an example later." I mean, I have a ranked map that I pushed to rank recently, so its not like I'm not doing something with this, and I also have projects planned to go for ranked. My additions to ranked also have nothing to do with this mapset and its relationship with the ranked system.
4) "your points seems to be heavily biased" and "you trying to alternate the concept that mappers did", the first portion of which I strayed extremely far away from any biases I had, taking only into account what you had already set up in the map, and the second portion, I only could have maybe implied this in one section, which I didn't even refute your rebuttal to in this response. I am definitively not suggesting you change your concept or your style, only making it more consistent to allign itself with the rest of your map and the song.
5) "your words of choice clearly saying that" So in this response I have made I wasn't intending to force my mapping philosophy, only trying to push this to more clearly allign with rankign and quality standards. Whether I did this aggressively is on me, but it doesn't mean that I am in the wrong for raising concerns with the map.
thanks for taking a look. sorry if my map doesnt seem to appeal in your eyes. it may not the most standout among the other as well, but this is simply how i portrayed my map towards this song.

PS sorry if there something wrong with my english :d
Your english was mostly understandable, and its no problem, but I highly implore you to get out of the mindset that you can't change anything about your map if only for the sake of getting it ranked sooner, as opposed to delaying it for the hopeful prospects of having a higher-quality beatmap, which you should try to do instead.

Thanks, and hopefully you read through this with a more open mind to other peoples' concerns (which by the way, are not shared only by myself)
Asherz007
Alright, with this much of a discussion going on when the map is so close to being ranked, I really have no choice but to take the map down for now.

There are quite a few people that are (and more than will continue) raising points to talk about, so I'd like to see all of this be resolved before restarting the ranking process, as it makes no sense when either party is unhappy at this point.

Well, at least people are actively checking stuff in qualified, so that's good, right?

Anyway, I'll underline again that this discussion ideally needs to reach a conclusion where a comprise/agreement is made so that all parties are content with the map, as I'm sure some points being raised are valid.
Litharrale
wenis
juankristal
Mmh, I took the time to read this previous mods.

And yeah, I imagine some of the consistency issues pointed out could polish this out a little bit better but for some reason I believe that you were just expecting something else out of this map as well. I would be more worried (and I am still, despite being one of the guys who nominated this set) about the spiky burst in between the map other than the rest. Because in comparision, all the map is quite bland and that is an alright thing but having that burst spiking the difficulty up is in my eyes a higher concern than any of the pointed consistency issues. At least that is what I was expecting to see people complaining.

About the SV bland section that you guys are calling the most boring part of the map, I kinda disagree, its just simple. Perhaps suitable for one of the easier difficulties instead of this one but I also kinda see the set as something easier than what it actually is (as in its consistently quite simple, straight forward and easy patterns) other than the burst.

I dont even know why I am posting this because well, I am not really contributing to the map with this but I felt I had to mention it.
Toaph Daddy
There is a certain extent to which you are probably right in my case, where that is the case that I was expecting something different; however, in my second response, (and even in my first mod for the most part outside of my comment on that middle kiai section) most of what I said was regarding the structure of the map and the consistency of the map, as well as the general lack of said consistency with respect to itself.

Staying consistent imo isn't just a quality of a map keeping the same sounds mapped in the same way throughout a map or section, but also making logical decisions as to where you can deviate from ideas that you've already set up, something I brought up a multitude of times through my mod. Introducing ideas that don't make sense with respect to how you have been developing the map through the song show a lack of consistent additions and layering.

Take the ending chorus, for example, where Rivals applies an idea that makes some amount of logical sense with respect to the rest of the map (albeit a little bit weak in terms of difficulty comparatively but that isn't necessarily a huge problem), but then through the second half, adds in a completely new layer (that being of long notes), despite the only change in the song being related to the volume of that section. I would consider this a random introduction of a new idea despite no similar introductions of ideas in the song, though maybe that's just an overreaction on my part.

Now, when you say "what we are calling the bland or boring section of the map" I assume you mean that thing with the 1/3 jacks. I am going to stand by my initial statement that the section was not mapped well with respect to his initial structure. Despite a change in tone here, I don't believe the shift was major enough to warrant only focusing on the one synth sound, instead of making some amount of an attempt to include the drum hits like he had been for the rest of the map. Regardless of this, however, the choices Rivals made in patterning for this is over-simplified to the point where it doesn't have any opportunity for representing the song to the extent that it should be. Even if he wanted to keep them as jumps for every synth sound and ignore the percussion, it would at least fit the section to switch the types of jumps instead of only focusing on [12] and [34] jumps.

With that being said, I will admit that most of my problems outside of that are just ironing out general consistency issues (though with how many I found I still think even with just those it was worth taking a look at again), but I don't think these two sections that are mentioned are just a matter of me expecting something different out of this map, as opposed to expecting something different from the different sections, given what the map has already presented to us, the players.

I hope this helps clear certain things up
Topic Starter
Rivals_7

TheToaphster wrote:

Alright this is fun
I really appreciate the fact that you denied literally everything

Ok, this post is going to refute some of the justifications for your patterns, but I'm going to put a focus on specific things. Namely, I am going to ignore any point where my sole argument is that its boring. This includes the intense wub seciton thing at 01:53:095 - , however, I still think my SV statement and suggestion are valid.

Alright and lastly before I start the actual rebuttal, there is one thing I want to explain right now.
I am a modder for this chart, not the mapper. Me pointing out concerns I have with the chart do not neccesitate me giving you suggestions for certain sections, it is fully your responsibility to find a solution when your map is approached with issues.

Anyways, lets start the rebuttal


00:01:997 - you ignored this sound and 00:09:909 - while paying attention to the sound at 00:04:964 - and 00:08:591 - (inconsistent within itself, this is extremely minor though) what sound? if there's anything i can hear of is only an echo of the first piano sound. that is almost barely noticeable. The fact that even none of the modder here even mentioned that, this is already explaining that those two point are worthless to be mapped. do note i'm only focusing to the prominent, hearable piano
First off, saying that no modders before me caught this, therefore I shouldn't have to change this, is invalid, given that the whole point of having multiple modders is so that people can catch things that other people didn't. Second off, there are sounds that are clearly audible that, yes, do correlate to what youre calling an "echo" of the first piano note. However, it is important to note that you actually do map notes to sounds that have the exact same volume and intensity, say comparing the sound at 00:01:997 - and the sound at 00:04:964 - . They are the same volume, same intensity, same purpose, but one has a note and one doesn't. This is clearly an inconsistency issue. Whether or not it can be written off as just a small mistake is out of my jurisdiction but is still something I should bring up regardless. // okay maybe i could heard that in the first point. but not at - 00:09:909 - however. The sounds occured there isnt piano, its rather like a small clap that getting overshadowed by the piano before


00:11:228 - Not a double while literally two notes later theres a double on the same sound. - 00:05:294 (5294|3) - look here. same with this
Ok? Then that is also a problem? This has no defense for why you do this, only exposing yourself for having this sort of inconsistency. // guess you missing the point. double is only used when the piano have a notably loud sound and at least a distance of 1/1 beats with another note before and after it.

00:19:057 (19057|1) - Why is this mapped? To make it flow better? Cuz theres no sound there hihat (not the hitsound. its actually exist)
No it doesn't. And if you actually think it doesn I would implore you to listen to it slowed down and compare what you hear to the stuff you mapped right before it. // i did, and my point still stand. i've been listening to this part, hundreds of time and i cannot ignore such obvious things afloat like nothing. idk how you couldnt heard the hihat here. i heard it pretty clearly myself

00:19:469 (19469|1,19469|0,19469|3) - no discernable difference between this and 00:19:799 (19799|2,19799|0,19799|3) - despite being noticeably different sounds how can you tell its "noticeably" different?
I really shouldn't have to explain why this is noticeably different. The second sound you mapped a hand to is louder than the one before, thus deserving of different layering effects, which you didn't do //uh arent they already different? 1st is |124| and the 2nd is |134|. the only thing is the same is the LN that covers the primary 1/2 long snare drum. both are the same kind. same kind of instrument = same placement sounds reasonable to me

00:23:013 (23013|0) - Same as before ^. kinda funny actually, you only mentioned the specific part despite almost all the similar synths have relatively same volume
When did we start talking about synth? Also when did we start talking about volume with this stuff? This mod was reffering to the 19:057 mod when it said same, which had nothing to do with synth and everything to do with percussion, an ignorance that I will give the same rebuttal to. // you're not. but i'm talking about my statement at - 00:19:057 (19057|1) - in which you implies "i heard nothing" while actually all the things occured here is the exact, same hihat like the others have (I wasnt meant to mention synths oops).

00:23:425 (23425|1,23425|0,23425|3) - see above in relation to 00:23:755 (23755|2,23755|1,23755|3) - ^^ //...yeah same

00:25:486 - So you decided to not map this note despite doing it before? if you meant this - 00:21:530 (21530|1) - , its intentional because i did the structure quite different, and so the player could handle these properly. What makes you think the player would have any trouble with the second set if they were able to handle the first set just fine? And also stating that you "changed" the structure of this section despite it not changing in the music enough to justify only supports the lack of quality and consistency // i could get away with this i think

Not mentioning any more consistency issues for that section. Please look over this. Also those LNs feel awkward to me being used in that way. This method of using long notes will eventually lead me to another point I'll be bringing up later which mostly has to do with you arbitrarily switching between mapping using lns and mapping without using lns. Going to still fully support my suggestion here

00:31:420 (31420|2,31502|1,31585|3) - I don't see a point in deviating from the already established trill thing you were doing, which legitimately made sense and was somewhat interesting there's 3 triple (or "hands" if you more comfortable with that term) in-between these transition. okay maybe i still could do the trill but it will be unecessarily heavy with 3 stacks happend in two columns at the same time So I understand what you mean here, Idk I guess it just doesn't really feel right? I'll say that this is something that could stay given the circumstances, though I don't necessarily like the lack of clarity between the three hands given that all three of them are different from each other in terms of sound, though that much might be difficult to avoid here

00:32:986 (32986|2,32986|1,32986|3,33151|3,33151|2,33151|0) - Why did you make these two different hands. Why not make them both [234] hands. They are literally the same exact sound and have no reason being different. 2nd hands act as an opening to the next section. particularly that works too but i feel the concept is better be like this
Eh, I personally disagree with purposely avoiding a more representative pattern in order to lead players into a section despite the transition being relatively easy with respect to the rest of the chart // huh? isnt mapping is about how you represent each sound with pattern towards the song? if that could do, why doing it in a very mainstream way

00:40:898 (40898|2,40898|1,40898|3,41227|1,41227|3,41227|2) - Not really an inconsistency mod but why are these not extended to be full 1/2 lns. There is no sound here that doesn't end on the 1/2 note tick cymbals sounds slightly longer here. you can notice it more clearly at 25% but generally you should be easily heard it when playing
You misunderstood this I think, what I meant is that the sound is longer than what you have mapped. Though this is pretty minor so w/e // ah, but i'm still pretty sure those cymbals only exist for 1/2

00:45:760 (45760|1) - This is a ghost note 100% sure this is a piano Ok no. The last piano sound for this is on 00:45:678 - , and you can definitely tell by listening to the gap between the last piano and the drum hit that begins the next measure //Its not. sigh* how cant you heard such obvious piano here? the piano is obviously still continuing. its just.... weird when i play this without that note because of how obvious it is. not to mention there's also a slightly pitch change for the piano there

Ok I'm, going to take a break from this inconsistency stuff for a second.



Are you actually serious?????

What even is this?

1) There is no discernable difference between the heavier percussion sounds and the main melody (which seems to be something you entirely focused on for everything before this section)

2) This is actually the most boring and simple choice you could have made for this section, and may actually be the most boring part of the map

3) It initially implies that 3-note jump jacks will be the focus of the section and then deviates from that.

4) 3-note jacks are actually what make the most sense here

5) This section is way dumbed down presumably because jAcKs ArE HaRd

6) The SVs are actually worthless and seems like they were used solely because you realized this section was boring and wanted to "spice it up"

This literally follows all but one of my general complaints about the map.
........and then what? looks like you didnt have anything against these in general since you dont even provide solution (and probably i wont even accept because i can imagine how cluttered it will be if i do adding another note to make it hands for the claps)
This part is extraordinarily important that you fix. It is not good. It is also not my job to give you suggestions for how to fix it. However, I will give you a suggestion on top of Gekido-'s that has already been shared since you seem to be incapable of it on your own. // uh you're a modder. its essential to provide solution for every single point you think it could be better. especially in a qualified because every mapper will always think "my pattern works the best" since your ways of saying it is highly subjective with no backing up rather than rant. gather more ideas and then combined so both parties agree. isnt that what you modding for? (or you just literally hate everything in this set)

How about something like this? Ditching the jumps will allow you to make this section more representative of the section of music, incorporate the 3-note jacks like I said would likely fit the best here, and would also let you differentiate between the quiter and louder drum kicks. Not to mention that Gekido-'s also allowed for this while keeping essentially the same note density as yours. Also to note that in mine you *might* (a LOT of emphasis on this might) even be able to put an extra note before each jump and hand to even make my suggestion keep the same density as yours.[/color] // i'll be using gekido's for this time.

Back to general mods/inconsistency stuff

00:57:711 (57711|3,58205|0,58700|2) - hold on you can't be serious. This is literally not an audible sound. So you made it so the hitsounds were the only thing that these notes were mapped to. That is ridiculous. Its almost like you wanted to attempt a hitsound job like imperishable night but only for 3 notes. Why??? are you really serious lol. i cant even say anything, (and hey, 2 QAT already coming here and not even both of them mentioned this is being inaudible or anything of sort.) this is 100% hearable i assure you. and thats about it. Go over youtube then head over the video of this song in Lanota, the official chart also map this part. and so does this one.
Alright lets talk about a couple things. The first is that you literally cannot use the justification that Lanota maps those notes, because we are talking about two completely separate games, the rules of each game's mapping do not correspond to the other. Secondly, listening to it again I do hear the notes. HOWEVER, this does not excuse the fact that 1) the hitsounds make the sound seem like they are more obvious than they are, which isn't necessarily a problem but does make it so that people with hitsounds are forced to play in a different way than people who don't use hitsounds, which is awkward in a map that is not 100% keysounded and 2) it is almost impossible for me to hear the sound on normal volume. I don't know if that's just my hearing but its annoying to have notes correspond to sounds that I literally can't hear. Not to mention that they aren't even represented differently as the get louder, maybe something that could be done by changing the lengths of the LNs? //i'm implying if they do, then they are also aware that this "ghost notes" actually has sounds. they are just a little bit overshadowed by the 1/6 stream from the section before but i simply cannot ignore what is obvious in my ear. i'm also playing this without an fx volume and i'm still clearly heard it. at least when you are using headphones or something like that.

01:08:260 (68260|3,68260|2,68260|0,68754|0,68754|1,69249|1,69249|2) - Both notes being held at a given time change pitch for each one and have eqaully emphatic percussion hits attached, so there isn't much of a reason to connect the LNs like this as opposed to making them all separate LN hand things there isnt much but one: 2 LNs are to cover a relatively loud-long-noises happen here. tbf only using one LN kinda lost its feel to me Thats not what I suggested. I suggested making it so the LNs aren't connected, and what I mean by that is this: // i feel like that will kinda removed the LN gimmick i've been doing, although not relatively in a dense appearance (that happens in most of LN themed chart) but its somehow could be an approach towards the LN shields gimmick too in the 2nd half of the song later



01:16:172 (76172|3,76172|0,76667|2,76667|1,77161|2,77161|0) - Noticeable weaker synth and percussion, mapped exactly the same only pitch are changing. nothing sounds weaker or stronger. they are equal I would still disagree but w/e not the biggest deal

01:33:809 (93809|1) - This ln should start at 01:33:645 - its noticeably louder there (and probably a bit arbitrary if i do that since everything here is 1/2) I think I had a small debate about something like this in my ranked GD, where someone said that a synth sound started later because the peak of the sound started later than I had it. However, I would say that when it comes to synth, the peak is not as important to follow, since the nature of the sound means the peak will often not be where the sound instinctively starts

01:29:359 -
Ok I'm gonna go back to right here, where this section starts.
I don't know if mapping every 1/2 note is necessary. There are much more noticeable sounds that you seem to ignore (since you seem to be going for the melody + claps + kicks), namely the bass hit or whatever you want to call it. Plus there really isn't much of a discernable sound on every 1/2 beat that justifies this kind of mapping.
01:39:908 - HERE However, there is an extremely noticeable and loud percussion sound happening every 1/4 beat. This section should be noticeably different in terms of density/structure/patterning so that a transition through the obviously increasing intensity of the song can be seen and felt by players I strongly disagree with "loud percussion happening every 1/4 beat". apparently the 1/4 is only happening every time 1/2 beat is done, but thats just synth. the percussion will be probably at - 01:43:123 - and - 01:44:441 - here only. but i dont really want since it'lll break the overall concept i want to build here. like, the concept is goes on 1/2 from - 01:39:908 -, then goes 1/4 with the jtrill, then 1/8 with the Jstream
This one I'm confused about. How could you possibly disagree that the percussion that hits on every 1/4 note isn't noticeably louder starting at 01:39:908 - . It is so obvious that the sound is louder now. I fully stand by my statement, where there should at least be some difference in intensity between this section and the section right before it due to the quick change in percussion volume

02:02:326 - So some of these LNs don't really fit with the sound of the synth. Specifically, 02:02:491 (122491|3,122573|1,122738|3,122820|1,122985|2) - These 5 seem to be mapped to literally nothing heard at 100%, the buzz synth(?) pitch change for a moment and those LNs is to cover that The buzz synth by itself shouldn't add 5 extraneous lns before it. The LN for the buzz sound is totally fine, but the LN stream leading into it is massively overdone.

02:08:919 (128919|3) - Shouldn't this LN be twice as long i think that will be too cluttered since i'm also mapping kick 1/2 after Ok to be fair here it shouldn't be twice as long, only up to the red tick but either way, I'd still say its too short

02:11:557 - See, to me here, the synth really only deserves 1 LN representing it, whereas you could probably make the second one extended to help represent the background woosh thing. 02:12:051 - Like here, you have the woosh also mapped I would presume, though two of the LNs should be extended to represent this more clearly. probably, but i dont see anything thats "too wrong" in my current pattern mfw.

02:13:864 (133864|0,133947|0,134029|2,134112|2) - Why are these minijacks? They don't deviate at all from the 4 notes right before it from my perspective Jtrill doesnt seem to fit with the song situation. each jacks also mimicking the pitch and why am i making it jacks is to mimick the percussion. trill could works too but i think jacks is more fitting I didn't really say anything about jumptrills or anything, imo it would have just been better to see them as single streams rather than minijacks // that is.... kinda straightforward? the noise pitch (not the drum pitch) is divided into two here. if i do straight roll... idk that doesnt really suit my vision

02:15:183 - Shouldn't be a double

02:16:172 - Shouldn't be a double

02:19:963 (139963|1,139963|0,140128|0,140128|1) - Shouldn't be doubles?

02:20:458 (140458|3,140458|2,140623|2,140623|3) - Same?
Same for the patterns right after it too why? they are all obvious, loud drums I'll give you that. Didn't catch it the first time, was initially thinking that the ones i mentioned were just the same sound as the singles but youre right here

02:23:919 (143919|0,144002|1,144084|2,144167|0,144167|3,144249|1,144331|2,144414|3) - What was the logic behind this pattern? There is nothing supporting it, in fact, the synth only sounds on every 1/2 beat, not every 1/4th beat, so some of the LNs before it are also representing essentially nothing gradual pitch change. there's a slightly pitch change every 1/4 there. I would highly disagree. I would exclaim that, even if there was a minor pitch change every 1/4 beat, it is definitely not significant enough to warrant a completely separate LN

02:28:452 (148452|1) - Oh is this you trying to map the synth too??? This might just be you accidentally putting a ghost note in but if you want to seem like you are mapping the synth layer it with the percussion that you wanted it to map too at the lease instead of only placing notes that correspond to the synth when literally nothing else is there. if anyhting, thats not synths. its melody. all the synths is already mapped and could be recognized in where i put that loud hihat noises in HS I think youre missing the fact that the melody IS the synths, or at least the noticeable ones. Saying that youre not mapping the synths but you are mapping the melody is by itself a false statement because the melody is the synth. Either way its still a notable inconsistency // what i was try to saying is that i map them both but w/e might change later

02:25:650 (145650|2) - Speaking of ghost notes I'm heading back a few seconds because this is definitely one regardless of whether you were trying to map the synth or not. This goes for every time there is one of those jump to hand things ^ Like I said, melody is the synth, and plus, there is literally no sound happening there, not even the synth

02:44:689 - Ok if anything I'm almost certain these should be 1/3 LNs the wubs? .....thats not straight 1/3, nor that the wubs has a distinct start place to be heard. so i'm goes with simplifying to 1/4 secondary synths for the sake of gameplay This one is more subjective I suppose but I still hear them as much slower than 1/4 wubs

02:45:842 - Wait what. WHY. Stop trying to make your maps more varied for the sake of having variation. It's LITERALLY THE SAME SOUND. There is no justifiable reason for why you would randomly change the entire structure of the kiai halfway through, other than the fact that the drums (and possibly also the synth) most notably get louder in the second half. Why would you put more emphasis on a completely new sound in the map despite the emphasis relative to the other sound (ie the drums emphasis in comparison to the synth) stays the same? If anything the map should just get denser in general while following the same concept you had developed just prior to it. This is the most effective way to handle something like this, as opposed to changing the entire concept. Not to mention that this second half of the kiai doesn't even stay consistent with mapping the synth sounds to LNs so I don't even know what to say (eg 02:48:974 (168974|3,169057|0,169139|3,169221|0,169304|3,169304|1) - none of these notes having any LN relevancy)
so apparently you saying that i should make the 2nd kiai the same as 1st but denser? you literally just complaining about being "boring" yet suggesting more boring stuff.
No one stop you to try a new concept for every. section. alone.

First off, yes I am absolutely trying to tell you to make the second half the same as the first half but denser or with some notable increase in intensity. Second off, doing this does the exact opposite of what you think I meant by boring. Making the second half more intense to match with the increased intensity of the song keeps players on their toes and makes sure they aren't sitting in the same stuff despite song development. You could argue that your LNs do this, but my statement from the actual mod that it goes against a vast majority of what you have set up in the rest of the map // to start with, there is nothing wrong to estabilish a new set of ideas near the end of a song. say its because this part is a climax part. 2nd, this LN is fairly easy to manage, or at least, its not that hard compared with what i've been doing with the majority. its not like this part is filled with heavy shields and stuff as it is will totally turn the concept 180 degree from the first kiai. 3rd, as dense as it sounds, the distinct noise that could be hearded remain the same. the dense of the chorus part between kiais noticeable in 100% but the distinct noise stays. so if you actually talking about making this more dense, do i have to cover kicks by triple and claps with quads? or relatively adding more notes on 1/4? in theory it could but its becoming overemphasized too much. (i missed some i think so lets see how it goes later)

03:01:667 - Not sure why there are 1/4 notes placed between all the jumps tbh, since there isn't a noticeable sound there synths Ok sure there are synths but im almost certain they arent on the in-between beats

03:04:963 - Not a hand????? too cramped. with all the 1/4 happening Eh, I don't necessarily agree but w/e // its also done so i could transitioning the trill without havin an unecessary minijacks

03:06:117 (186117|2) - This note definitely shouldn't exist pointless awkward break. there's also synths. and its LNs to keep consistency 1) It is not a "pointless" awkward break if nothing in the music is supporting the note currently there. 2) The synths tone changes dont defend this in the same way they didnt before

03:05:787 - Also not sure why you made these all LN shields. Kind of deviates from anything else you do in the map, so it just feels random no response? // its feels like the song could have that? so why not. sequential long noises is obviously heard
no reply are still considered to change or alternated until i found the way

TheToaphster wrote:

Staying consistent imo isn't just a quality of a map keeping the same sounds mapped in the same way throughout a map or section, but also making logical decisions as to where you can deviate from ideas that you've already set up, something I brought up a multitude of times through my mod. Introducing ideas that don't make sense with respect to how you have been developing the map through the song show a lack of consistent additions and layering.

I'm agree with consistency. but, you really should hear how the song develops. This isnt your everyday generic anime/pop songs where they could have 3 choruses with similar orientation. leaving with no choice to stay consistent with layering, but they could do something to make the patterning more various and has an obvious separation in-between section to reflect each other.

I dont really get what you mean by "logical" as this map is clearly what you saying and what i've been doing ever since the start. each section has a different instrument orientation, thus the ideas of different patterning and sometimes different layering


Take the ending chorus, for example, where Rivals applies an idea that makes some amount of logical sense with respect to the rest of the map (albeit a little bit weak in terms of difficulty comparatively but that isn't necessarily a huge problem), but then through the second half, adds in a completely new layer (that being of long notes), despite the only change in the song being related to the volume of that section. I would consider this a random introduction of a new idea despite no similar introductions of ideas in the song, though maybe that's just an overreaction on my part.

This song, outside the 2 chorus, there is no place that have a similar instrument orientation throughout. so the consistency patterning you've been saying here are a little too much to ask as the song literally have different concepts each section. thus, the idea differs on each section. The first half of the song consists of relatively easy-to-follow rythmic, with exception on 1/3 section which is quite hard. The 2nd half after the burst, it goes relatively hard compared with the first half where you faced an SV section that test up your reading (and acc), then a syncopated drum section, ended with burst and relatively simple LN shields. into the chorus i made it to follow melod+synth as well with the percussion. the 2nd then goes almost the same with additional LN to cover primary melody as to test the agility (idk how to worded it clearly)

Its all to justifies the difficulty of being (almost) 5* because of the burst. we literally hear complaints about some maps that is mostly easy but its almost 6* just because the spike, in comparison it doesnt fair with the majority of difficulty and cause a rage for being "PP giveaway"
i will holding this for like 2 weeks to fix necessary thing before i'm asking for a renomination to them (although idk if they still interested).

Not yet updated for now
Toaph Daddy
Theres a couple things I think I will explain a bit further in a post coming later today (this one won't be very long I promise, just some statements about some of my own mods (and partially your responses too) and also some suggestions for parts that I feel lack consistency (namely the thing with the last chorus, where I'll give a suggestion that could improve the coherency of that section while incorporating ideas you set up right before it in the transitions, which will also allow you to incorporate the LN patterning type deal you already have in the second half)). I would also advise getting a couple other modders to double check some of the stuff that I've been saying about consistency/ghost notes/whatever because I could very obviously be wrong about these things, my hearing is weird, and I'll probably check through the song again and see, but yeah, other opinions would probably be useful here

Sorry if anything I've been saying has come off as unnecessarily aggressive, I've just been pent up for a while. agsdg assh g

Uhhh, yeah so stay tuned, a post will be made later today probably

EDIT: This is gonna have to come tomorrow, got caught in some things at work and got home later than I thought I would :((. Will try to get the suggestion out soon though
Topic Starter
Rivals_7
so i think i just found de wae the way. the significant change could be seen on 1/3 part which was based from gekido's, The part before the jtrill jstream in the middle, LNs transition, and first chorus (the idea of the first chorus is now kind of jack-based instead of straightforward streams). else is pminor

as for ghost notes confirmation http://puu.sh/zKYbF/c407a58376.jpg http://puu.sh/zKZMs/ae63f0bfe7.jpg http://puu.sh/zKZQY/a8003d8df0.png the reception i got from 2 people so far is kinda mixed right now (i might ask more for this)

---
edit when tho
Toaph Daddy
Oof rip me sorry bout that. Basically the suggestion I was going to make for the first half of the chorus is to use shorter LNs in the same spots as you did in the second half. Basically giving the synth sounds the same identity as the second half of the chorus gave them but allowing for that extra emphasis to develop as a result when the volume of the chorus increases and the lengths of the LNs also increases to match the intensity. I'd give a screenshot of what I mean but I am not currently home, so an image will have to wait for now. If you would like one later today I can absolutely supply one o7
[Proxy]
rank this again pls :<
Topic Starter
Rivals_7
i think i get what you mean by using shorter LNs but uh.... the thing is, i said it before. i just want this to be visually different for the song density sake. imo its still consistent on its layering. its just they are presented differently.
PS: minor HS fix
-mint-

[Proxy] wrote:

rank this again pls :<
again? :thinking:
Protastic101
rEEeEEeEeeEeE(bubble)
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