10:46 bor: hey uh
10:46 bor: what do you think of cs 7
10:46 MrSergio: why do you always seem to be concerned about things that aren't "maps" themsleves...
10:46 MrSergio: depends on how you use it
10:46 MrSergio: I don't mind it
10:47 bor: weLOL
10:47 bor: uh
10:47 bor: this actually does concern a map
10:47 bor: I got a bubble \o/
10:47 bor: was wondering if you would be #2
10:48 MrSergio: asking me about what I think about cs7 means that you're not sure yourself in what you did... should I assume?
10:48 bor: its more about when i ask people to look and they say "I don't like cs 7 sorry"
10:49 MrSergio: I don't like cs7 sorry :^)
10:49 bor: f u k
10:52 bor: well uh... would you want to give it a look :^)?
10:53 MrSergio: 00:01:342 (4,5,6) - DS please
10:53 MrSergio: 00:00:718 (1,2,3,4) - you used it here but no there ^
10:53 MrSergio: ?.?
10:54 bor: dddd
10:54 bor: I use it sometimes
10:54 bor: and not other times
10:54 MrSergio: thanks for repeating what I can see already
10:54 MrSergio: reason?
10:54 MrSergio: I can understand stuff like 00:00:718 (1,2,3,4) -
10:54 MrSergio: 00:04:051 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - *
10:55 MrSergio: pitch changed so it's expected
10:55 bor: 00:02:592 (5,6) - I believe this is getting quieter, so i wanted to slowy reduce its local intensity by doing such
10:55 MrSergio: 00:01:342 (4,5,6) - constant rhythm with similar beats, yet spacing changes?
10:56 MrSergio: it's a natural decreasing scale, lmao
10:56 MrSergio: 00:11:342 (4,5,6) - same thing but you did it?
10:56 bor: yeah
10:57 MrSergio: no, that's not what I asked for, lmao
10:57 MrSergio: reason why they are different?
10:57 bor: yeah
10:57 bor: sec
10:57 MrSergio: ok, rip icon
10:57 MrSergio: :^))))))))
10:57 bor: I had a reason when i made this like
10:57 MrSergio: well, not that I said yes anyway yet
10:57 bor: long ago
10:57 bor: right
10:58 bor: I'm just trying to remember the reason I had and see if its worth keeping based on that reason
10:58 MrSergio: truly an important reason if you forgot it =w=
10:59 bor: well yeah
10:59 bor: first one 5 is increase in pitch and 4 is decrease
10:59 bor: but for reason to DS?
10:59 MrSergio: cause it's an unusual snap and you have to give a help to players
10:59 bor: I wanted there to be more obvious structure there
10:59 MrSergio: that's not obvious
11:00 MrSergio: that's how you felt about the map, but it doesn't help the mapper read the pattern
11:01 bor: lol
11:01 bor: it doesn't help the mapper read the pattern
11:02 bor: d
11:02 MrSergio: 02:11:967 (3,4,5,6,7) - stuff like this again... It was fine when you did things like 00:54:051 (1,2) - since it was a concept well structured and introduced
11:02 bor: I think does in fact help the player
11:02 MrSergio: there is no way to tell (with stuff like that) when the next "anomal" spacing will come up
11:03 bor: what is the similarity between those?
11:03 bor: I don't see it
11:03 MrSergio: the sudden spacing decrease
11:03 MrSergio: 02:19:676 (5,6) - based on that, I could assume this one is a 1/2 gap too, instead of 1/4
11:03 MrSergio: but it isn't
11:03 MrSergio: so how can I tell the difference?
11:04 bor: uh
11:04 bor: the 1/2 gaps right before it?
11:04 bor: are massive
11:04 bor: so the spacing change forces the player to go "oh fuck spacing change drasticly what's going to happen"
11:04 MrSergio: 02:11:967 (3,4) - 02:19:676 (5,6) - massive, heh
11:04 bor: and then read the approach circles
11:05 bor: 02:17:592 (2,3,4,5) -
11:05 bor: these
11:05 MrSergio: what does that have to do here
11:05 bor: did you not just mention 02:19:676 (5,6,7,8) - this is unexpected and not introduced
11:06 MrSergio: 02:19:676 (5,6) - .
11:06 bor: yes
11:06 bor: this gap
11:06 bor: you are arguing that it should be 1/2 if I'm using that spacing
11:06 bor: ?
11:07 MrSergio: I'm arguing that there is no exact way to tell why and how I should expect an anomal spacing for 02:11:967 (3,4) - and not for 02:19:676 (5,6) -
11:07 MrSergio: making a map based on feelings is fine and all, but abide to some basic rules of mapping to do so at least
11:07 bor: so 02:11:967 (3,4) - this is a problem for you
11:07 bor: and nothing else
11:07 bor: "nothing else"
11:08 MrSergio: 37.7% of the map yet
11:08 MrSergio: and it seems you skipped my previous point again
11:08 MrSergio: so it doesn't seem like "nothing else"
11:08 bor: I didn't mean nothying else
11:08 bor: zzzz
11:08 MrSergio: and I skipped myself some minor stuff
11:08 bor: I meant to say 02:11:967 (3,4) - this is an issue
11:08 bor: but 02:19:676 (5,6) - is not?
11:09 bor: because the way you were linking them made me think the second one was an issue
11:09 bor: based on the first one
11:09 MrSergio: that respects distance = snap, why should it be a problem
11:09 MrSergio: 02:18:842 (4,5) - big distance on bigger gap, 02:19:676 (5,6) - smaller distance on smaller gap
11:09 MrSergio: and that's fine
11:09 MrSergio: but you don't do that earlier
11:09 bor: yes
11:09 bor: ah ok
11:09 MrSergio: or in some parts at random (at least from what I can tell)
11:10 bor: 02:09:676 (4,5,1) -
11:10 MrSergio: (like that part in the intro)
11:10 bor: this looks to be just about that
11:10 bor: I mean at least with visual spacing
11:10 MrSergio: NC, that's fine
11:10 MrSergio: different combos can have different spacings and the NC itself rapresents a "spacing reset", so that's good as it is
11:11 bor: yeah
11:11 bor: but don't you think that can be used to introduce an idea of ambiguous time distance gaps
11:11 MrSergio: no, because the NC is the NC, while the combo's body is the combo's body
11:11 MrSergio: you can't apply that concept properly without a NC, so you need other means to do so
11:12 MrSergio: that's why it sucks to reduce spacing like that inside the combo
11:12 MrSergio: with the NC I have a visual signal telling me "something's gonna change"
11:12 MrSergio: in the middle of the combo I don't
11:12 bor: I kind of get it
11:12 MrSergio: unless you set up a nice and cool pattern that can be read JUST in the way you want it to be read
11:13 MrSergio: example of such pattern is 00:17:384 (1,2) -
11:13 MrSergio: this concept is brought up gently in the intro and you use it later on for 00:54:051 (1,2) - so it is readable
11:13 bor: ah I see
11:13 bor: I see
11:14 bor: lol
11:14 MrSergio: while your other spacing decreases seem unjustified, like 00:01:342 (4,5,6) -
11:14 MrSergio: because there is 00:11:342 (4,5,6) - which follows a different rule, even tho it's the same rhythm and so on
11:14 MrSergio: consistency of meaning across the map
11:14 MrSergio: feelings as they may be for you, you need to make those feelings be understood by who plays
11:15 bor: ok so
11:15 MrSergio: and as I said, for someone that didn't map this as myself, that looks random to me for the reason aforementioned
11:15 bor: would you have a problem if I stacked 02:12:801 (4,5,6) - under the tail of 02:11:967 (3) -
11:15 MrSergio: that's good enough for me
11:15 MrSergio: stacks are another sort of spacing reset
11:15 bor: cool
11:16 bor: for a second my brain was confused by I get what you meant and I see the problem you are having with that
11:17 bor: I am goign to make the triple just 2 1/4 clicks and do something with the spacing
11:17 bor: thi s https://bor.s-ul.eu/Nitt27id
11:17 MrSergio: as long as it is a concept modeled on something you already used, I have no problems with it
11:18 bor: yes
11:18 bor: the overlap indicates 1/4
11:22 MrSergio: 05:06:759 (6) - what do you think of moving this to around x380 y112?
11:22 MrSergio: the reason I suggest this is because doing a straight ahead jump (05:06:551 (5,6) - put's no emphasis on 5 at all
11:22 MrSergio: so by creating a sharp angle you get emphasis on both
11:23 MrSergio: 05:20:717 (1) - lul
11:23 bor: its interesting
11:23 MrSergio: 27 secs of slider, ayy
11:23 MrSergio: no problem with it tho, I just wanted to meme
11:23 bor: but I think your suggestion gives more value to 5 than 6
11:23 MrSergio: umh...
11:23 MrSergio: let me try something else then
11:24 bor: I think 5 has a decent amount, but 6 is clearly more emphasized than 5
11:24 MrSergio: ah, whatever, keep it like that
11:24 bor: swag
11:25 bor: I have more reason for it to be like that if you want to hear but zzz
11:25 bor: you said there were some small things ?
11:26 MrSergio: like... a couple of spacings I would have increased just for a better feeling
11:26 MrSergio: I saw them but went ahead since I didn't deem them as necessary
11:26 bor: point em out I might agree with you :^)
11:28 MrSergio: gotta re-look over everything
11:28 bor: lol
11:28 MrSergio: btw, 00:01:342 (4,5,6) - how did this end up then?
11:29 bor: right now I haven't done anything because it partially follows the spacing/pitch rule
11:30 bor: plus there is some feeling that exists when playing the note with this placement that is hard to mimic with DS
11:31 MrSergio: well, duh. The feeling you mentioned is probably derived from spacing, so using DS there... you know... means changing spacing <.<
11:31 bor: lmao
11:32 MrSergio: ah, found one
11:32 MrSergio: 00:49:051 (6,7) - increasing spacing would be cool
11:32 bor: its also because angle and w/e
11:33 MrSergio: although that's a shitty place, since increasing it is hardly possible
11:33 bor: well
11:33 bor: I could make do
11:33 bor: if I adjusted 00:49:467 (7,8) - both
11:33 bor: I think its a decent idea
11:34 MrSergio: umh... well, I guess you can amnage on your then
11:34 bor: the angle change I would have 7->8 would be good
11:34 MrSergio: on your own*
11:34 bor: yeah i edited this
11:36 MrSergio: 02:05:509 (3) - ummhh... maybe stack it on 02:05:926 (4) - 's head for vocal expression?
11:37 MrSergio: still, the matter in the intro pops up again and again... like 02:17:592 (2,3,4) - you do use DS here, and it's once again the 1/2 snap from before
11:38 bor: uh
11:38 bor: oh
11:38 bor: let me try and address the first link
11:38 MrSergio: first one is minor, second one is me trying to convince you again
11:38 bor: yeah
11:38 bor: I know
11:39 bor: but I'm super OCD about order for no reaosn
11:39 bor: reason
11:39 bor: 02:04:676 (2,3,4) -
11:39 MrSergio: oh, the stack thingy was done for 02:17:592 (2,3,4) - too
11:39 MrSergio: 02:23:842 (11,1) - *
11:39 MrSergio: goddamn C
11:39 bor: this is roughly even visual spacing
11:39 bor: 02:17:592 (2,3,4) - for this
11:39 MrSergio: well, in that spot vocals are clearly playing around, so it's easy to understand it
11:40 MrSergio: although I'd prefer the stack to get rid of the possible inconsistency
11:40 bor: for last link spacing is somewhat increasing?
11:40 bor: I mean visual spacing is not
11:40 bor: as much
11:40 MrSergio: ah, no, 02:23:842 (11,1) - this one is fine
11:40 bor: hm?
11:41 MrSergio: it was an excuse for consistency to stack 02:05:509 (3) -
11:41 MrSergio: same concept, same visual representation?
11:41 bor: one is 1/4 beats into 1/2 gap
11:41 bor: one is 1/2 gaps
11:41 bor: with roughly same visual spacing
11:42 bor: what was the point you were trying to make with 02:17:592 (2,3,4,5) - ?
11:43 MrSergio: nothing ._.
11:43 MrSergio: why is that coming up anyway
11:43 bor: z'
11:43 bor: you linked it
11:43 bor: before
11:43 MrSergio: ah, yeah, now I saw it
11:43 bor: lol
11:43 MrSergio: it was using DS even tho it was a similar gap to 00:01:342 (4,5,6) -
11:43 MrSergio: snap*
11:44 bor: eh
11:44 bor: kind of
11:45 bor: its increasing ds
11:45 bor: both actual ds and visual spacing
11:45 bor: though its much more obvious because of the objects I'm using around it
11:46 bor: only thing I can say that truly matters for 00:02:592 (5,6) - is that
11:46 bor: its noticably bigger than 00:00:718 (1,2) -
11:46 bor: its also right after 00:01:342 (4,5) - the 1/2 gap here
11:47 bor: in this case its has some kind of hint at readability
11:48 bor: if anything I would say readability is to be argued in that spot, since I use a lot of varying spacing throughout the map
11:48 bor: like here 01:31:342 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
11:48 MrSergio: 01:31:967 (5) - is a weak beat, so it naturally has less spacing
11:49 bor: right
11:49 bor: the triviality is that, to me the beat with lower spacing in the intro seems weaker than the previous beats
11:49 MrSergio: can you at least use a similar shape between 00:01:342 (4,6) - ? Even if not the same, at least curve both, so it's one more hint on the snap
11:50 bor: yes
11:50 bor: I will do that
11:50 bor: good idea
11:50 MrSergio: make someone do #2 and I can finish checking the tedious stuff about folder, meta, etc
11:50 bor: i took the shape \
11:50 bor: ctrl h
11:50 bor: stack heads and done
11:50 bor: rip
11:50 bor: someone just told me "if you get #2 i can help push this for rank"
11:51 MrSergio: is that someone a t2?
11:51 bor: pentori
11:51 MrSergio: fine by me then
11:51 bor: yeah
11:51 bor: I mean I had pishi be #1
11:51 MrSergio: =w=
11:52 bor: lol
11:52 bor: so i should update rn
11:53 bor: or is there more stuff to be mentioned
11:53 bor: (I don't wanna self pop rn ;w;)
11:53 MrSergio: is meta confirmed?
11:53 bor: I took it from the somewhat recently ranked set
11:53 *bor is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/973208 EGOIST - All Alone With You]
11:53 MrSergio: well, ranked sets are checked by kwan anyway, so I assume it is correct
11:54 MrSergio: you can update
11:54 bor: swag
11:54 bor: updated
11:55 MrSergio: ok, the intro feels better now
11:55 bor: agreed
11:55 bor: the idea of mirroring the shape was really cool
11:56 MrSergio: god, where was that part I wanted to see.... aaaa
11:56 bor: lol
11:56 bor: 02:11:967 (3,4,5) -
11:56 bor: this?
11:57 MrSergio: 02:11:967 (3,4,5,6,7) - found
11:57 MrSergio: ye
11:57 MrSergio: that's fine with me
11:57 MrSergio: ok then

19:27 bor: PIzzzz
19:28 Pentori: w
19:28 bor: lo
19:32 bor: tell me when i update
19:32 bor: it has hitsound fixes
19:32 bor: and 2 new hitsound files
19:34 Pentori: ye i see theyre off
19:35 bor: im in a league match about to end rn
19:35 Pentori: k
19:39 bor: d i just uploaded u gotta redl
19:39 bor: my friends won't let this game end
19:39 Pentori: no rush
19:39 Pentori: just tell me when ur done lol
19:39 Pentori: its not 24h yet
19:39 bor: lol
19:39 bor: its like 10 minutes from it
19:44 bor: FINALLY
19:44 bor: LOL
19:44 bor: lemme re log
19:45 bor: ok i redy
19:45 Pentori: did u change those samplesets
19:45 bor: that naitoshi pointed out?
19:45 bor: yes
19:45 Pentori: 00:09:051 (3,1) -
19:46 Pentori: shouldnt they b 30
19:46 bor: yes
19:46 Pentori: so y are they 22 :v(
19:47 bor: agre
19:47 bor: I legit fixed them this moring so idk why they were 22 LOL
19:47 Pentori: 00:02:592 (5,6) - blanket dis btw
19:48 bor: sure
19:48 bor: just kind of rotated the tail a bit
19:48 Pentori: 00:23:009 (4) - shouldnt this have the whistle
19:48 Pentori: not 00:23:426 (5) -
19:48 Pentori: u normally had them on the strong piano 00:19:676 - 00:16:342 -
19:49 bor: o shit u rite
19:50 Pentori: 00:34:676 (2,3) - also these could prob do with whistles
19:51 Pentori: 00:49:676 (8,9,10) - can u space these evenly, like 00:47:384 (1,2,3)
19:51 bor: ye
19:53 Pentori: 01:02:176 - do u not want the triplet here or sth?
19:53 bor: naw
19:54 Pentori: y not
19:54 bor: kind of winding down rhythm for the spinner
19:54 bor: well
19:54 bor: the hit that kind of pauses
19:54 Pentori: mk
19:55 Pentori: 01:19:884 (1) - do u actually need this nc?
19:55 bor: its consistent with how I chose to represent triples I think
19:56 bor: checking rn
19:56 bor: but I think like one time with the 1/6 its off
19:57 bor: 04:39:329 (1,2,3,4,1) - :thinking: not sure how I would adjust this though
19:57 bor: nc kind of separates the 1/6 from 1/4
19:57 bor: unless its a long stream then its just 3's
19:59 Pentori: meh just kinda seems pointless cos u have 01:20:092 (1) - nc'ed anyways
19:59 Pentori: but watever
20:00 bor: well
20:00 bor: the slow 1/8 sliders always have ncs
20:00 bor: "1/8"
20:02 Pentori: 02:39:467 (1) - these are 1/6 drums?
20:03 Pentori: 02:42:801 (6) - needs one of those finishes
20:03 bor: ur rite
20:03 bor: I didn't even notice the kick
20:03 Pentori: 02:52:384 (5) - im p sure this should be 1/6 too
20:04 Pentori: the snare sounds like it snaps to the 1/6
20:04 Pentori: and like u have at 04:39:329 (1,2,3,4,1) -
20:04 Pentori: this starts on the 1/6
20:04 bor: yup
20:04 bor: I fixed these
20:05 bor: and their visual gap
20:05 bor: added kicks to end of sliders
20:05 bor: and to one you pointed out
20:05 Pentori: k
20:06 Pentori: 03:00:092 (1) - has like an offbeat clap thing on the blue tick, whereas others dont
20:06 Pentori: mayb map that?
20:06 Pentori: would be nice to show that its different
20:07 bor: I would just line the tail up with the beat
20:07 Pentori: yea
20:07 Pentori: and add a clap
20:07 bor: yee
20:08 Pentori: 03:13:217 (6,7) - dam this is a pretty big jump
20:09 Pentori: also, this is like really similar to how 02:59:884 (6,1) - sounds
20:09 Pentori: i dont think theres anything specific on 03:13:634 -
20:09 bor: its the pitch of the vocalist
20:09 bor: it is so beaufiful
20:09 bor: i almost cry here every time
20:09 bor: so I complimented that pitch a with spacing
20:09 Pentori: ye but
20:09 Pentori: the vocal is on 03:13:426 -
20:10 bor: yes
20:10 bor: it is still very much felt
20:10 bor: with the movement
20:10 bor: and the control required
20:11 Pentori: i mean
20:11 Pentori: u can still have that jump but
20:12 Pentori: thee rhythm doesnt seem the best
20:13 bor: probably not with my argument presented
20:13 bor: though my rhythm is consistent in regards to following the drums
20:13 bor: I find it possible to compliment other instruments in the music indirectly like in the example you linked
20:14 Pentori: http://puu.sh/vjSlj/a46f749537.jpg
20:14 Pentori: but ok
20:14 Pentori: just a suggestion
20:15 bor: well I gotta reply xD
20:15 Pentori: 03:28:217 (3) - put clap on the slider head
20:15 Pentori: u have it on sliderslide lo
20:16 bor: LOL
20:16 bor: idk how i managed that one tbh
20:16 Pentori: 03:46:759 (1) - same thing with the snare?
20:17 bor: ye
20:17 bor: tho ima screen shot this fix see if you like it
20:18 bor: https://bor.s-ul.eu/2thD8Qlc
20:18 Pentori: isnt that too much spacing
20:19 Pentori: wait nvm
20:19 Pentori: cos its 1/4 right
20:19 Pentori: kinda looks a bit messy tho cos
20:19 Pentori: u already have the circle overlapping the slider
20:19 bor: https://bor.s-ul.eu/zAYPUlT4
20:19 Pentori: then u throw another 1 on top
20:19 Pentori: ye thats prob nicer
20:20 bor: swag
20:20 bor: kind of bugged me
20:20 bor: that the circle was under the head
20:20 bor: kind of reducing the importance of the slider tail lol
20:21 bor: this arrange doesn't bother me as much even though it still kind of occurs
20:21 Pentori: 04:46:759 (1) - d
20:22 Pentori: 05:04:467 - it sounds like those 1/6 drums are present here too
20:22 bor: I might actually go with this, also fixed https://bor.s-ul.eu/DRb0Rx9Q
20:23 Pentori: so like http://puu.sh/vjSHW/e11d151ce3.jpg
20:23 bor: yeye
20:24 Pentori: 05:18:634 (6,7,8,9,10) - not really a fan of how messy this gets :d..
20:24 Pentori: espec cos low ar
20:24 Pentori: but i wont press it
20:24 bor: well
20:25 bor: I did it on purpose
20:26 Pentori: ye plays alright
20:26 Pentori: ok update when ur rdy
20:26 bor: gotta fix
20:26 bor: some samples
20:28 bor: ok
20:28 bor: updated
20:33 Pentori: oka
20:33 Pentori: looks fine
20:33 bor: swag
20:33 Pentori: ill rebub