Kobaryo - Dotabata Animation [feat. t+pazolite] [OsuMania]

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Topic Starter
Sandalphon

Abraxos wrote:

a case against this map:


how completely disgusting of you to say such a thing to someone who's trying to help.
I dont need "luck" to rank my map, any thing wrong with that?

you're ignoring his point about the patterns neglecting the song as it is; if you believe that your current pattern is fine then stand up to the point and make a case for yourself instead of asking, again, someone who's trying to help you improve your map to "make a map themselves to their liking". i'm sorry but we all share the ranked section so whether you like it or not you will have to stand up for yourself and take responsibility for your own things
His think his pattern is better and I think mine is better, just different mapping choice between different mapper, why should i explain more. If you want more explanation, "i think my pattern fits the music more" simple as that. As you said we all share the ranked section, then people should try to accept different mapping idea instead of focusing someone to accept their mod

before you argue that "you're the one who's being attacked here" stop yourself for a minute and think whether or not these people care enough about you to attack you or care about the quality of the rank section
its the wording, using words like "your map is a mess" "should remap this whole section", and still call it a help? no thank you


i think this shows not only me but everyone else how victimized you believe you are. of all the things and people and systems in the world to blame and you never thought to take a look at yourself and what you've actually done.
I would like to know what you mean by "what i've done".

i can only hope you wake up from it and actually start taking responsibility for your own map.

i apologize if this comes off as aggressive but i do not like it and will never stand for it when people shirk themselves in a corner when criticism arrives and point to the "oppressor" and scream how they're being "unreasonably being attacked".
err... pls dont try to guess my thought here

edit: i'm not continuing this mod, i don't see a reason to when the mapper is this entrenched in his own victim complexes

speedcore


[PATTERNING]
00:12:693 (12693|3,12808|2) - no attempt at differentiation even though there's bass beats?
00:13:500 (13500|2,13616|0) - similarly, i won't repeat myself

00:19:385 (19385|3,19385|0,19616|3,19616|0) - different pitches?

i'm not sure if you noticed but
00:19:616 (19616|0,19731|1,19846|0,19962|1,20077|0) - 1
00:21:577 (21577|1,21693|0,21808|1,21923|0) - 2
00:23:308 (23308|0,23423|1,23539|0,23654|1,23770|0) - 3
why do all of them center on the same hand?
i would understand if 1 & 3 utilized the same patterning cause the song repeats but 2 is eehh

00:26:193 (26193|0,26308|2,26308|0) - i get what you're trying to do here but sorry it's not doing what you think it does
00:28:039 (28039|0,28154|1,28154|0) - if you take a closer listen the one above is completely different in pitch and tone, yet both are represented in the same column

00:31:962 (31962|3,31962|2,32077|2,32077|3) - are they the same pitch? if not why are they in the same column then $$

00:32:539 (32539|2,32539|1,32770|0,32770|3) - funnily enough, these are the same pitches - yet they lack the representation as shown above
you copy pasted didn't you

reference $$ and %% for this point
00:34:385 (34385|2,34385|1,34616|3,34616|0) - you hear those wobs in the song? yeah you could've used those to your advantage by differentiating your doubles here but alas $$ and this are the same so nope this whole section has completely no nuance. add on %% and i think you should be able to see why people are complaining about how plain this map is

00:50:077 (50077|0,50193|0,50308|0,50423|0) - this is horrendous to play as a starting burst
00:50:712 (50712|3,50770|3) - this one is pretty bad, 260 jumptrills and then a minijack? it's not that there's anything wrong layering-wise, i just take issue with how sudden this one is, which is kinda the music's fault but then again it's not like you didn't have the freedom to make it less awkward

let's talk patterning now

00:50:308 (50308|1,50308|0,50366|2,50366|3,50423|0,50423|1,50481|3,50481|2) - i'm pretty darn sure this is a different bass beat than
00:50:539 (50539|0,50539|1,50596|2,50596|3,50654|1,50654|0,50712|2,50712|3) - so i don't understand why they're all bunched up in this jumptrill

01:08:770 (68770|1,68770|3,69000|1,69000|3) - different pitches, same column

01:11:885 (71885|0,71885|3,72000|2,72000|3) - these are the notes that have the same pitches, yes?
01:12:000 (72000|3,72000|2,72116|2,72116|3) - if yes to above, then why are these then the same columns?

01:16:846 (76846|2,76846|3,77077|2,77077|1,77308|0,77308|1) -
01:18:693 (78693|2,78693|3,78923|0,78923|1,79154|2,79154|3) -
we agree that these are the same pitches of notes, yes?
then why are they patterned differently?

01:21:693 (81693|3,81693|0,81693|2,81808|1) - you couldn't keep the jacking up here?
01:22:154 (82154|3,82154|0,82270|1) - here too?
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9283807 - i dont see why you wouldn't want to keep the difficulty here at least somewhat consistent

01:27:173 (87173|0,87231|0) - this has no justification layering-wise so i'm putting it here - why end this part on a jack?

pay attention to which hand all the notes i highlight land on
01:27:693 (87693|3,87693|2,87808|2,87808|3) -
01:28:039 (88039|2,88039|3,88154|3,88270|2,88270|3,88385|2,88385|3,88500|3,88500|2) -
01:28:731 (88731|2,88731|3,88846|3,88846|2) -
01:29:077 (89077|2,89077|3,89193|3,89193|2) -
01:29:539 (89539|2,89539|3,89654|3,89654|2) -
01:29:885 (89885|3,90000|3,90116|3) -
01:31:385 (91385|3,91500|2,91500|3,91616|3,91616|2) -
01:31:846 (91846|2,91846|3,91962|3,92077|2,92077|3,92193|2,92193|3) -
01:32:423 (92423|3,92423|2,92539|2,92539|3) -
01:32:770 (92770|3,92770|2,92885|3,92885|2,93000|3) -

can you see anything wrong with how the whole section is layering? do you think (at least for the beginning of the section) the section is a bit heavy on the right?
and before you bring up the "this section is right then left" 01:29:539 - and 01:30:231 - disqualifies it
not that it has any merit to begin with, why would you want to make the section alternatingly right-left biased

this song is horrible to chart, 01:27:693 - i perfectly understand how you didn't want to overload this section and it's really not that much your fault than it is the song (kobaryo is generally pretty meh anyway)

01:30:923 (90923|0,90923|3,91154|0,91154|3) - could've emphasized these more

again,
01:35:193 (95193|3,95193|2,95308|0,95308|1,95423|3,95423|2) -
01:37:039 (97039|3,97039|2,97154|1,97154|0,97270|2,97270|1) -
same beats but different representation

01:36:462 (96462|1,96462|0,96577|2,96577|3) - i don't get why the bass beats don't get the jack but 01:36:577 (96577|2,96577|3,96693|3,96693|0) - the bass-woob ones do, it just misplaces your emphasis on the bass here and makes everything seem messy and convoluted

01:37:500 (97500|1,97500|0,97616|1,97616|0,97731|0) - i don't understand this one




[LAYERING]
complete mess

00:17:193 - there's a bass beat here
00:19:270 - hihat

00:20:885 - bass beat, don't skimp on the double just because it's after muh triple there's still emphasis there

00:26:423 - 00:30:116 - hihat

00:30:462 (30462|1,30462|0,30462|3) - why are these notes emphasized to such an extreme? i don't hear any crashes

00:37:154 - not sure why you ignored the 1/4s here, it's not like you couldn't have done a normal 1/4 stream just for this part because hey there's actually differentiation in this song that you can use to make your map less copy pasted maybe %%
00:37:962 (37962|2,38077|3,38077|0,38193|1) - same as above, you could've done some sort of jack progression but nope nothing %%

00:51:000 (51000|0,51116|0,51231|0) - quirky layering
00:51:000 (51000|2,51000|0,51000|3,51231|2,51231|0,51231|3) - because these are the same triples - why are they the same

let's talk hypocrisy

00:52:212 (52212|3,52327|0) - these can very readily be argued as ghost notes, but for the sake of patterning and my argument let's say these are allowed
then 00:53:135 - 00:53:250 - 00:53:366 - are all inconsistent and fucked by that because they all have that same "note echo"
not only that, 00:52:616 - the patterning itself becomes really right-heavy
in summary, i don't see why you shouldn't remove those "note echo" notes because they're a) messing up the patterning and b) structurally inconsistent

00:53:770 - to 00:54:462 - there are 1/4 snares here you skipped over

01:02:308 - this snare is so blatantly missed
even if you make the argument "hey i'm only following the synths" it just seems lazy to me that you could not have tried to incorporate them into your patterning somehow? because they're part of the song you're trying to chart here and shouldn't we as charters be striving to represent the song as well as possible?

01:08:193 (68193|0,68308|0,68308|1) - either
a) you make them not stack because they're not the same pitches or
b) 01:08:193 - you make this a double

01:10:962 - snare
before you argue that you're mostly following the synths here 01:09:923 (69923|0) - 01:11:770 (71770|1) - you might want to consider that these notes lead players into thinking that percussion is actually being followed too. if you so want to make it such that you don't have to place a note at 01:10:962 - then you better make sure that the synth sections are actually distinct from each other in this section

01:16:154 - a bit weird how there's no notes here just LN releases

01:23:539 - you can most definitely have LNs here
01:21:923 - 01:23:770 - these are the same wubs actually
01:25:385 - NOW this one is inexcusable because there's no wub sound anywhere; besides the fact that this shows some measurable form of incompetency in basic layering understanding i think it shows that you're copy-pasting too

01:25:616 - wub here btw but it's fine if you ignore this one

01:25:846 - i guess you hands are bound layering-wise but i still wouldn't regard this as optimal, you could've very well done a jumpstream which emphasizes more on the synths in the music
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9283841 - something like this might even work fine, even though it's a bit crude as of now

01:35:885 (95885|1,95885|0,95885|3,96116|0,96116|1,96116|3) - same triple but different pitch?
01:35:885 (95885|3,96000|3,96116|3) - it's also why you get these things

01:42:000 - not sure why this is doubled really, there's no strong sound except for a yawn which seems pretty soft to me

RemFangirl wrote:

Okay, so I'm actually kinda looking forward to the modding discussion and feel like I'll say a word about this one.
First, I actually played the 2 hardest diffs on this map, and I can completely say this is legit pp giveaway. Given that this map isn't hard to play mainly because of the absurd spamming trills, you're not supposed to do that in the similar fashion to the genre has in this song. Sure, it's a really upbeat speedcore, but that doesn't mean your pattern is justifiable and can go on like "oh, this map has lots of tricky rhythmical structure, probably I should go with the hard stuffs and repetitive things on and on". Do not even try to get this one in a ranked state even with a situation like this.
Not like i'm the one who set the high SR, i map what i think its correct, if you dont agree then you are welcome to point out, but i wouldnt accept things like "because this is easy pp so you should make the pattern structure harder" no
Second and lastly, you are even trying to ignore what the modders will give out better solutions for you.
I reply each mod with my reason, i cant agree with the modder =/= i ignore their mod. Think again
Not even anyone could chart maps perfectly in just a single try. Yours are too. since when i say my map is perfect
You're completely impolite to just bang those aside and drop it like it's not even a regular feedback for you. Look all of those ranting feedbacks in Disqus if you do need those reviews. So keep that in mind. if you want people to take your post seriously, then you shouldnt do it on disqus, that section is for meme

In either today or tomorrow, I'll be trying to look over on this stuff and will give out my personal opinion on my revision to this.
Will check the mod tonight
-mint-

YaHao wrote:

if you want people to take your post seriously, then you shouldnt do it on disqus, that section is for meme
some of the posts on there are actually serious though. i must admit, most of them are jokes, but saying this just comes to show that you didnt really read the comments section through.
Topic Starter
Sandalphon

qqqant wrote:

YaHao wrote:

if you want people to take your post seriously, then you shouldnt do it on disqus, that section is for meme
some of the posts on there are actually serious though. i must admit, most of them are jokes, but saying this just comes to show that you didnt really read the comments section through.
post it here if you want my reply/thought, in case you dont know, thats how modding work

qqqant wrote:

wanting to make a pp map is basically implied in your p//s jumpstream section to which what is mapped in that section is completely different to what is in the song.

also, just wanted to say something about the difficulty name... it's even worse than naming your diff "POP MUSIC!!" in a kpop song, as evening put it

00:52:673 (52673|0,52904|0) - there isnt even any sound here. remove these and 00:52:731 (52731|3,52731|2,52789|1,52789|0,52846|2,52846|3) - Ctrl+H this //hihat
Because i didnt remove the notes as its for hihat, so the Ctrl+H will also be rejected. Do i really need to explain this much?
Its not wrong to use diff name like this,not against any RC. if you dont like it, then too bad
-mint-

YaHao wrote:

post it here if you want my reply/thought, in case you dont know, thats how modding work
I know - but people usually still post in the Disqus for feedback (although not often, it does happen). As the mapper you should be checking the Disqus to see if there are really any problems that people addressed in there. Even a reply saying "go to forum if you want to get your opinion heard" is fine because that means you read it, man

YaHao wrote:

qqqant wrote:

wanting to make a pp map is basically implied in your p//s jumpstream section to which what is mapped in that section is completely different to what is in the song.

also, just wanted to say something about the difficulty name... it's even worse than naming your diff "POP MUSIC!!" in a kpop song, as evening put it

00:52:673 (52673|0,52904|0) - there isnt even any sound here. remove these and 00:52:731 (52731|3,52731|2,52789|1,52789|0,52846|2,52846|3) - Ctrl+H this //hihat
Because i didnt remove the notes as its for hihat, so the Ctrl+H will also be rejected. Do i really need to explain this much?
Ok that makes sense. So you're not going to reply to my first two statements? Ok

EDIT: ok so it seems you either edited your reply or i missed the last line sorry bout that
Raveille
ill remove this since abraxos already came with a response.
Abraxos
i'm not letting this rest this easy

YaHao wrote:

Abraxos wrote:

a case against this map:


you're ignoring his point about the patterns neglecting the song as it is; if you believe that your current pattern is fine then stand up to the point and make a case for yourself instead of asking, again, someone who's trying to help you improve your map to "make a map themselves to their liking". i'm sorry but we all share the ranked section so whether you like it or not you will have to stand up for yourself and take responsibility for your own things
His think his pattern is better and I think mine is better, just different mapping choice between different mapper, why should i explain more. If you want more explanation, "i think my pattern fits the music more" simple as that. As you said we all share the ranked section, then people should try to accept different mapping idea instead of focusing someone to accept their mod

you're missing the point again, can you explain why you chose these patterns that neglect the song at that point in time or are you going to resort to meta-critical analysis of "different" mapping choices and preferences? you're right to say that we should accept different ideas but then you lose that critical filter for quality and suddenly all kinds of garbage are now acceptable because "hey, we should accept different ideas right?"

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

before you argue that "you're the one who's being attacked here" stop yourself for a minute and think whether or not these people care enough about you to attack you or care about the quality of the rank section
its the wording, using words like "your map is a mess" "should remap this whole section", and still call it a help? no thank you

i'm sorry but nowhere in this thread does it say "kindergarten". you're in the real world, learn to deal with harsh criticism and learn to filter out the points that are actually useful for you rather than getting hurt because of wording and shutting down discussion

since you DID bring up wording as an issue let me produce a gallery of when your wording is inappropriate too:


how completely disgusting of you to say such a thing to someone who's trying to help.
I dont need "luck" to rank my map, any thing wrong with that?

oh, so people wishing you well is grounds for you to be condescending towards them then?



calling the other modder incompetent? is that fine by you too?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________


i think this shows not only me but everyone else how victimized you believe you are. of all the things and people and systems in the world to blame and you never thought to take a look at yourself and what you've actually done.
I would like to know what you mean by "what i've done".

the map? you made this map? you did the mapping for this thing? you're accountable for the map aren't you?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

i apologize if this comes off as aggressive but i do not like it and will never stand for it when people shirk themselves in a corner when criticism arrives and point to the "oppressor" and scream how they're being "unreasonably being attacked".
err... pls dont try to guess my thought here

then tell me what you actually think then, because so far you've only showed how wilfully ignorant you are being

if you want further elaboration on that i'll give you some



so feedback in the discus = useless then?



so feedback HAS to be in the thread or else your point is useless then?



oh, so wanting drums to be a double and a kick be a triple is "boring"?
calling other people's maps boring? without even doing what they did with your chart - mod them? is this fine too?



so when other people explicitly tell you that a section is boring you as a mapper decide that it's better to just straight up say that it isn't boring rather than explain the mechanics behind the section and stand up to the chart to at least try to help players understand why it isn't boring in your eyes; to facilitate discussion

Spartan-
i will not be happy until this map has difficult patterning for a 6 star,
or it isn't a 6 star anymore
Topic Starter
Sandalphon
Pls stop manipulating my words.

Abraxos wrote:

a case against this map:


you're ignoring his point about the patterns neglecting the song as it is; if you believe that your current pattern is fine then stand up to the point and make a case for yourself instead of asking, again, someone who's trying to help you improve your map to "make a map themselves to their liking". i'm sorry but we all share the ranked section so whether you like it or not you will have to stand up for yourself and take responsibility for your own things
His think his pattern is better and I think mine is better, just different mapping choice between different mapper, why should i explain more. If you want more explanation, "i think my pattern fits the music more" simple as that. As you said we all share the ranked section, then people should try to accept different mapping idea instead of focusing someone to accept their mod
I dont think LN is necessary as that section is clam, no need to add more intensity
you're missing the point again, can you explain why you chose these patterns that neglect the song at that point in time or are you going to resort to meta-critical analysis of "different" mapping choices and preferences? you're right to say that we should accept different ideas but then you lose that critical filter for quality and suddenly all kinds of garbage are now acceptable because "hey, we should accept different ideas right?"
you may think its garbage, but other people might have different thought, important thing is to find a agreement that satisfy both side
before you argue that "you're the one who's being attacked here" stop yourself for a minute and think whether or not these people care enough about you to attack you or care about the quality of the rank section
its the wording, using words like "your map is a mess" "should remap this whole section", and still call it a help? no thank you

i'm sorry but nowhere in this thread does it say "kindergarten". you're in the real world, learn to deal with harsh criticism and learn to filter out the points that are actually useful for you rather than getting hurt because of wording and shutting down discussion
how is this become "shutting down discussion", i reply every mod and if anyone want to continues i'm happy to do so
since you DID bring up wording as an issue let me produce a gallery of when your wording is inappropriate too:


how completely disgusting of you to say such a thing to someone who's trying to help.
I dont need "luck" to rank my map, any thing wrong with that?

oh, so wishing people well is grounds for you to be condescending towards them then?



calling the other modder incompetent? is that fine by you too?
again, where is this "calling the other modder incompetent" come from. If he cant even explain himself well, how can i understand his mod??


i think this shows not only me but everyone else how victimized you believe you are. of all the things and people and systems in the world to blame and you never thought to take a look at yourself and what you've actually done.
I would like to know what you mean by "what i've done".

the map? you made this map? you did the mapping for this thing? you're accountable for the map aren't you?

i apologize if this comes off as aggressive but i do not like it and will never stand for it when people shirk themselves in a corner when criticism arrives and point to the "oppressor" and scream how they're being "unreasonably being attacked".
err... pls dont try to guess my thought here

then tell me what you actually think then, because so far you've only showed how wilfully ignorant you are being

if you want further elaboration on that i'll give you some



so feedback in the discus = useless then?



so feedback HAS to be in the thread or else your point is useless then?
//I dont have the time to check thru the whole disqus and tell which one is being serious which is not, if they dont even bother to post it here, then why should i care. And i never say such thing like all of them are useless, they might have value point but if they want to voice it, post it here



oh, so wanting drums to be a double and a kick be a triple is "boring"?
//mapping is not just about stick to one single rule



so when other people explicitly tell you that a section is boring you as a mapper decide that it's better to just straight up say that it isn't boring rather than explain the mechanics behind the section and stand up to the chart to at least try to help players understand why it isn't boring in your eyes; to facilitate discussion
Seiryuu
"I don't think LN is necessary as that section is clam, no need to add more intensity"

Fair enough, at least you explained why this time.



"you may think its garbage, but other people might have different thought, important thing is to find a agreement that satisfy both side"

Obviously, this does NOT satisfy both sides, your eyes can do the job for you.




"again, where is this "calling the other modder incompetent" come from. If he cant even explain himself well, how can i understand his mod??"

He is explaining himself well, it's better to make the notes as ACCURATE as possible.




"//I dont have the time to check thru the whole disqus and tell which one is being serious which is not, if they dont even bother to post it here, then why should i care. And i never say such thing like all of them are useless, they might have value point but if they want to voice it, post it here"

Looking through Discus isn't a difficult thing. When my chart got ranked, I also looked at Discus daily for feedback. The thread isn't that long my dude, don't be lazy. Also, you can easily take out which posts are serious or not unless you have no understanding whatsoever of the English Language.



"//mapping is not just about stick to one single rule"

Yes it's not about sticking to one single rule, and you don't have to follow that, no one ever said so.


Also, stop cherry picking what you want to reply to, it's just making you look bad.
You also made yourself look like a hypocrite from your replies btw, they're the exact opposite of your previous replies to the other mods.
Topic Starter
Sandalphon
If that doesnt satisfy both side, then let QAT to decide which should be the best solution
Well, i think 1/2 is the snap that suit the vocal and maximize the playability
Everyone's voice matter, but again, post it here. Its not hard for me to go there and check and its also not a bit deal for them to just copy what they said and post it here. If you want your opinion to be seem
I didnt reply fully because some of the point are pointless to argue and it does no good for the map

nice editing
Melt3dCheeze

YaHao wrote:

//just because i didnt map the 1/8 doesnt mean i'm not listening to the music
There's your problem, you've stayed consistent throughout the entire map and that one section you just put iceing on the cake and some pretty sparkles to cover up the hollowness. There's a reason why 2 other people pointed out that section riddled with ghost notes. It's pretty big issue if more than one person points it out, similar to the way how ranking maps is structured.

If you really think in this day and age we're all scared over note division of 1/8 and used that as a justification tool then :shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:. The ending of that section uses 1/8 OH GOOLY WE GOT PRANKED XD!! In a musical context no one gives a damn about note division it's only a representation of note value, and without context it's just a number.

YaHao wrote:

His think his pattern is better and I think mine is better, just different mapping choice between different mapper, why should i explain more. If you want more explanation, "i think my pattern fits the music more" simple as that.
What world are you from? I came fresh out of Uranus because this is a poop assumption.
Even though you want that section to be nice and easy, what's so hard about LN + Rice? I feel like you copy pasta'd some Love Live Normal Diff map to the song and called it a day.

YaHao wrote:

As you said we all share the ranked section, then people should try to accept different mapping idea instead of focusing someone to accept their mod
I'm sitting here with two kudosu, TWO KUDOSU. Do you think I give a damn about accepting mods, I'm here to question your mapping choice.
Seiryuu
I have officially given up, it's been a very long time ever since I've seen someone this dense. This is the last post I'll make here if it doesn't convince you, so be it, you can live your life without any criticism or improvement to your charts then.


"Everyone's voice matter, but again, post it here. Its not hard for me to go there and check and its also not a bit deal for them to just copy what they said and post it here."

This is by far the worst excuse anyone could have given, it just shows that you don't care at all. YOU should be the one finding errors in the chart, trying to improve it the best you can with the help of the community. Not everyone wants to post on a forum only to get shut down by someone who rejects all of their suggestions.
Never forget that you're not just charting for yourself, but for the community. The audience matters a lot more than you think.


"I didnt reply fully because some of the point are pointless to argue and it does no good for the map"

Changing your attitude DOES matter to the map. Staying ignorant and stubborn forever doesn't help with anything other than making you look bad.


These posts aren't here just because we love bugging and annoying you, they're here because we want you to change for the good of yourself and the community.
But, if you're gonna take it as a personal attack and think that your chart is perfect, so be it.
-mint-
guys i wouldnt lose hope so easily. wait for QAT and hopefully that will convince

if that doesnt then this map wont be ranked unless QAT says its fine i guess, whats the big deal?
also i think this can be a good learning experience for all of us
Topic Starter
Sandalphon
@Melt3dCheeze
2 people point it out so you think its a big issue, how about all the modder that have checked this map and the BNs who are fine with that patterning
That section is harder than the same section in Insane and Extra, it fit the diff sprea and thats good enough for me
Well, I already explain my "mapping choice" to you well enough, still cant agree then just leave it to the QAT to decide

@Seiryuu
If I dont care at all why am I still here replying this, post your thought on thread, thats the basic thing if you want to help the map. Next time i migh as well PM everyone to ask their opinion on my map
2 posts without any timing and here you say "changing my attitude will help the map better" that really helps a lot, thank you
Abraxos

YaHao wrote:

@Seiryuu
If I dont care at all why am I still here replying this, post your thought on thread, thats the basic thing if you want to help the map. Next time i migh as well PM everyone to ask their opinion on my map
2 posts without any timing and here you say "changing my attitude will help the map better" that really helps a lot, thank you
what i'm hearing is that you believe changing your attitude won't help the map yes?




yahao didn't reply to this btw^



do you truly truly believe that your attitude has no part to play in pushing the discussion forward after seeing what you've done to all the mod responses?

___________________________

i also disagree with how mappers seem to need to look to authority for the absolute "best" way to do things, it's just odd to me that we don't have enough of a backbone to justify our own actions, but you do you.

___________________________

snexe wrote:

mlem
mlem
Topic Starter
Sandalphon
@Abraxos
Dont take something out of context, I believe a mod with helps more than focus on my attitude.
How can you define what is boring what is not, some maps i found boring but seems a lots of people like them, everyone is different. That section is quite clam, simple pattern will do the work, how is this hard to understand
Abraxos

YaHao wrote:

@Abraxos
Dont take something out of context, I believe a mod with helps more than focus on my attitude.
How can you define what is boring what is not, some maps i found boring but seems a lots of people like them, everyone is different. That section is quite clam, simple pattern will do the work, how is this hard to understand
so far everything you've replied to in the mods seems mostly comprised of baseless statements that have little to 0 logical backing. if people think that these quotes are taken "out of context" then they'll be inclined to read the post themselves

not that it matters, the main point was how you as a mapper believe so fervently that things like boredom and fun are so heavily dependent on inter-subjectivity and there is completely no space for any objective introduction of viewpoints, much less logic

that is just simply not true. i'm sorry but i believe that
"i don't think the patterns here are boring because they're following the synth line in the music relevantly alongside some emphasis on the percussion snares"
is a way stronger, much more convincing argument than
"i don't think the patterns here are boring because people told me they like them"

if you have nothing else to add, then feel free to continue your accusations on misplaced context (even if there is one in the first place)
Litharrale
While I don't disagree with the points made against the map, the way that this thread has gone downhill is not conducive to a better version of it being ranked. This is how you get a mapper to abandon a DQ'd map rather than improve it.

Just chill yo
Feerum
Greetings.

YaHao requested a disqualify to me. It seems the map can have a bit more of discussion.

I also want to warn everyone because the language got pretty rude at some points. Keep everything on a polite level. Do not start to get passive aggressive because this is what both side's do, Mapper and Modder.
Make sure to follow the Code of Conduct with Mod posts/reply's.

Everything unrelated to this discussion will get deleted and punished in future.
Topic Starter
Sandalphon

Abraxos wrote:

speedcore


[PATTERNING]
00:12:693 (12693|3,12808|2) - no attempt at differentiation even though there's bass beats? //i dont think i had follow any bass in the previous part so no for this
00:13:500 (13500|2,13616|0) - similarly, i won't repeat myself

00:19:385 (19385|3,19385|0,19616|3,19616|0) - different pitches? //they are different, but here i'm not really concern about the pitch plus they are 1/1 beat between, wouldnt really affect game play

i'm not sure if you noticed but
00:19:616 (19616|0,19731|1,19846|0,19962|1,20077|0) - 1
00:21:577 (21577|1,21693|0,21808|1,21923|0) - 2
00:23:308 (23308|0,23423|1,23539|0,23654|1,23770|0) - 3
why do all of them center on the same hand? //if the pattern around are balanced why not
i would understand if 1 & 3 utilized the same patterning cause the song repeats but 2 is eehh //how is 2 same as the 1and 3

00:26:193 (26193|0,26308|2,26308|0) - i get what you're trying to do here but sorry it's not doing what you think it does
00:28:039 (28039|0,28154|1,28154|0) - if you take a closer listen the one above is completely different in pitch and tone, yet both are represented in the same column //jack here are more for the intensity as the song slowly build up

00:31:962 (31962|3,31962|2,32077|2,32077|3) - are they the same pitch? if not why are they in the same column then $$
//same explanation as above, to build up the intensity
00:32:539 (32539|2,32539|1,32770|0,32770|3) - funnily enough, these are the same pitches - yet they lack the representation as shown above //funny enough that you think you can follow every pitch 100% correct in a 4k map, perhaps you didnt notice that i use (14)(23) pattern each time the music repeat
you copy pasted didn't you //you tell me

reference $$ and %% for this point
00:34:385 (34385|2,34385|1,34616|3,34616|0) - you hear those wobs in the song? yeah you could've used those to your advantage by differentiating your doubles here but alas $$ and this are the same so nope this whole section has completely no nuance. add on %% and i think you should be able to see why people are complaining about how plain this map is

00:50:077 (50077|0,50193|0,50308|0,50423|0) - this is horrendous to play as a starting burst //i dont see why its bad, if we not deleting any notes, 4th col also got 7notes only in different snap but you didnt point it out, i assume thats ok for you?
00:50:712 (50712|3,50770|3) - this one is pretty bad, 260 jumptrills and then a minijack? it's not that there's anything wrong layering-wise, i just take issue with how sudden this one is, which is kinda the music's fault but then again it's not like you didn't have the freedom to make it less awkward // thats the only 1/4 jack thru the whole kiai, and its the first sound of the burst

let's talk patterning now

00:50:308 (50308|1,50308|0,50366|2,50366|3,50423|0,50423|1,50481|3,50481|2) - i'm pretty darn sure this is a different bass beat than
00:50:539 (50539|0,50539|1,50596|2,50596|3,50654|1,50654|0,50712|2,50712|3) - so i don't understand why they're all bunched up in this jumptrill //if i'm keeping the current notes amount, (12)(34) will be the best solution here, unless you want me to change the second part to (14)(23) in order to show that changing

01:08:770 (68770|1,68770|3,69000|1,69000|3) - different pitches, same column //mapping is not just about pitch, plus its a 1/1 gap in between

01:11:885 (71885|0,71885|3,72000|2,72000|3) - these are the notes that have the same pitches, yes?
01:12:000 (72000|3,72000|2,72116|2,72116|3) - if yes to above, then why are these then the same columns? //because i want to keep the triple, as the previous pattern is double, you will always have at least one note thats in the same col

01:16:846 (76846|2,76846|3,77077|2,77077|1,77308|0,77308|1) -
01:18:693 (78693|2,78693|3,78923|0,78923|1,79154|2,79154|3) -
we agree that these are the same pitches of notes, yes?
then why are they patterned differently? fundamentally one has chords layered over each other but one doesn't so your "variety" explanation doesn't hold up cause of how differently they actually play. //these part are remapped, cant really reply

01:21:693 (81693|3,81693|0,81693|2,81808|1) - you couldn't keep the jacking up here?
01:22:154 (82154|3,82154|0,82270|1) - here too?
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9283807 - i dont see why you wouldn't want to keep the difficulty here at least somewhat consistent //same here, i've remapped this part

01:27:173 (87173|0,87231|0) - this has no justification layering-wise so i'm putting it here - why end this part on a jack? //finish sound, it deserve more impact

pay attention to which hand all the notes i highlight land on
01:27:693 (87693|3,87693|2,87808|2,87808|3) -
01:28:039 (88039|2,88039|3,88154|3,88270|2,88270|3,88385|2,88385|3,88500|3,88500|2) -
01:28:731 (88731|2,88731|3,88846|3,88846|2) -
01:29:077 (89077|2,89077|3,89193|3,89193|2) -
01:29:539 (89539|2,89539|3,89654|3,89654|2) -
01:29:885 (89885|3,90000|3,90116|3) -
01:31:385 (91385|3,91500|2,91500|3,91616|3,91616|2) -
01:31:846 (91846|2,91846|3,91962|3,92077|2,92077|3,92193|2,92193|3) -
01:32:423 (92423|3,92423|2,92539|2,92539|3) -
01:32:770 (92770|3,92770|2,92885|3,92885|2,93000|3) -

can you see anything wrong with how the whole section is layering? do you think (at least for the beginning of the section) the section is a bit heavy on the right?
and before you bring up the "this section is right then left" 01:29:539 - and 01:30:231 - disqualifies it
not that it has any merit to begin with, why would you want to make the section alternatingly right-left biased //from 01:27:693 - till 01:29:308 - , the amount of notes in right is 21 and left is 19, i dont see how is this "heavy on right", the right col are more focus on the 1/2 jack and left is more of 1/4, mix them up will just make the pattern less enjoyable

this song is horrible to chart, 01:27:693 - i perfectly understand how you didn't want to overload this section and it's really not that much your fault than it is the song (kobaryo is generally pretty meh anyway)

01:30:923 (90923|0,90923|3,91154|0,91154|3) - could've emphasized these more //thats why the SV is added here, to emphasize the vocal

again,
01:35:193 (95193|3,95193|2,95308|0,95308|1,95423|3,95423|2) -
01:37:039 (97039|3,97039|2,97154|1,97154|0,97270|2,97270|1) -
same beats but different representation

01:36:462 (96462|1,96462|0,96577|2,96577|3) - i don't get why the bass beats don't get the jack but 01:36:577 (96577|2,96577|3,96693|3,96693|0) - the bass-woob ones do, it just misplaces your emphasis on the bass here and makes everything seem messy and convoluted //because bass beat is not the focusing here

01:37:500 (97500|1,97500|0,97616|1,97616|0,97731|0) - i don't understand this one //why not, its still balance as the previous jack 01:37:270 (97270|2,97385|2,97385|3,97500|3) - all lay on the right hand




[LAYERING]
complete mess //and you want me to reply you politely

00:17:193 - there's a bass beat here // as the long sound appear, ignore other sound will bring more attention to the long sound which is the sound i wan to follow
00:19:270 - hihat // so i can focus on the 00:18:923 (18923|0,18923|3,19154|0,19154|2,19385|3,19385|0) - main sound

00:20:885 - bass beat, don't skimp on the double just because it's after muh triple there's still emphasis there //my double is for main sound, not bass beat

00:26:423 - 00:30:116 - hihat //like my previous explanation, mapping is not map everything you hear, you need to choose wisely

00:30:462 (30462|1,30462|0,30462|3) - why are these notes emphasized to such an extreme? i don't hear any crashes //first sound of the main sound as each time it repeat

00:37:154 - not sure why you ignored the 1/4s here, it's not like you couldn't have done a normal 1/4 stream just for this part because hey there's actually differentiation in this song that you can use to make your map less copy pasted maybe %%
// i can barely tell thats a 1/4 under 100% play speed, if its not that noticeable, i dont think its worthy to add note
00:37:962 (37962|2,38077|3,38077|0,38193|1) - same as above, you could've done some sort of jack progression but nope nothing %%

00:51:000 (51000|0,51116|0,51231|0) - quirky layering
00:51:000 (51000|2,51000|0,51000|3,51231|2,51231|0,51231|3) - because these are the same triples - why are they the same // 00:50:770 (50770|0,50770|1,50885|1,50885|2,51000|2,51000|3,51231|2,51231|3,51346|2,51346|1,51462|1,51462|0) - i think now u can see why

let's talk hypocrisy

00:52:212 (52212|3,52327|0) - these can very readily be argued as ghost notes, but for the sake of patterning and my argument let's say these are allowed
then 00:53:135 - 00:53:250 - 00:53:366 - are all inconsistent and fucked by that because they all have that same "note echo"
not only that, 00:52:616 - the patterning itself becomes really right-heavy
in summary, i don't see why you shouldn't remove those "note echo" notes because they're a) messing up the patterning and b) structurally inconsistent
//00:53:077 - as the pitch of the main sound goes up,to bring attention on the main sound, i ignore other sound so player wouldnt confuse

00:53:770 - to 00:54:462 - there are 1/4 snares here you skipped over //why you want the pattern to have more intensity when the song itself starts calming down

01:02:308 - this snare is so blatantly missed
even if you make the argument "hey i'm only following the synths" it just seems lazy to me that you could not have tried to incorporate them into your patterning somehow? because they're part of the song you're trying to chart here and shouldn't we as charters be striving to represent the song as well as possible? //follow more sound=/=it represent the song better.

01:08:193 (68193|0,68308|0,68308|1) - either
a) you make them not stack because they're not the same pitches or
b) 01:08:193 - you make this a double //jack because the rhythm start changing

01:10:962 - snare
before you argue that you're mostly following the synths here 01:09:923 (69923|0) - 01:11:770 (71770|1) - you might want to consider that these notes lead players into thinking that percussion is actually being followed too. if you so want to make it such that you don't have to place a note at 01:10:962 - then you better make sure that the synth sections are actually distinct from each other in this section
//i dont find it misleading, the synths are well followed

01:16:154 - a bit weird how there's no notes here just LN releases //dont find it weird as thats not even a finish sound

01:23:539 - you can most definitely have LNs here
01:21:923 - 01:23:770 - these are the same wubs actually
N01:25:385 -OW this one is inexcusable because there's no wub sound anywhere; besides the fact that this shows some measurable form of incompetency in basic layering understanding i think it shows that you're copy-pasting too
//cant reply to the 3 points above as i already remap this part

01:25:616 - wub here btw but it's fine if you ignore this one

01:25:846 - i guess you hands are bound layering-wise but i still wouldn't regard this as optimal, you could've very well done a jumpstream which emphasizes more on the synths in the music //guess we have differnt choice on this section then
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9283841 - something like this might even work fine, even though it's a bit crude as of now

01:35:885 (95885|1,95885|0,95885|3,96116|0,96116|1,96116|3) - same triple but different pitch? //i ignore the pitch here
01:35:885 (95885|3,96000|3,96116|3) - it's also why you get these things //i dont see how move 01:36:116 (96116|3) - to 3th coll will make any better

01:42:000 - not sure why this is doubled really, there's no strong sound except for a yawn which seems pretty soft to me //thats why i'm using double not triple

Feerum wrote:

Greetings.

YaHao requested a disqualify to me. It seems the map can have a bit more of discussion.

I also want to warn everyone because the language got pretty rude at some points. Keep everything on a polite level. Do not start to get passive aggressive because this is what both side's do, Mapper and Modder.
Make sure to follow the Code of Conduct with Mod posts/reply's.

Everything unrelated to this discussion will get deleted and punished in future.
cheers
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