AncuL wrote:

does the whole thread say that quality doesn't matter as long as it's ranked?

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

Come on. Where did I said that? Any quotes which I did said that? Or it's your imagination and make it up for yourself?

You think your mod is so perfect and forces everyone to follows that because you think it helps? If it so, we don't have to make a long reply to gives out reasons, and this arguement should not exists. You got the will to mod the map, we are appreciated, in return, we don't have the will to rejects it if it doesn't helpful? Where we accecpts, if it's valid, we will brings it out and fix it in time.

You're standing on the point where you think everyone are wrong and you're the correct guy out here. We have to look on your points, the song, and in result we could find the best solution for the map.

Stop this nonsenses, shall we?
Why don't you just give the mapper the only mod as it should be and not to be sarcasm?

P.S.: Spy is still away. He is still not reply any single mod after it got bubbled, are you trying to make the situation worse because you are still not satisfied from the BroGamer map?
wow, somebody need to chill out.

Spy wrote:

Greeting.
You just need to show me if this is unrankable or not, if it is rankable, then stop arguing.

MrDorian wrote:

Shana's tag should be [Shana_Lesus] For previous experience, I can't search the map which mapped by Shana in this way, so I'm not going to change the tag.
also I'll mod it, cus why not You still have not explained why?

offset should be sth like 1270 I'll change to 1283 then.

Leggendaria

00:12:975 (12975|2,13125|2,13275|2,13425|2,13575|2,13725|2,13875|2,14025|2) - this stack is awful to be honest, you can avoid it in a really easy way, just ctrl+h 00:13:575 (13575|2,13575|3,13650|0,13650|1,13725|3,13725|2,13800|0,13800|1,13875|3,13875|2) - this I don't really think so, for playing I think it doesn't affect so much.

00:31:725 (31725|1,31875|1,32025|1,32175|1,32325|1,32475|1,32625|1,32775|1) - another stack out of place, you could this part more and get rid of this thing, it's uncomfortable I adjust some.

00:56:475 (56475|2,57675|2) - I do not really get why would you like to have these two lns in one column, sounds have different pitches, you could just 00:57:525 (57525|1,57675|2) - ctrl+h it and it would be more pitch correct As your wish.

It would take a lot, so only one simple question about next part. Why don't you follow pitch revelancy 00:58:875 - in this part. or oh wait
01:11:775 (71775|0,71850|1,71925|0,72000|1,72075|1) - this jack looks so stupid, it's literally out of place. Sorry, I don't think so.

01:16:575 (76575|1,76575|0,76725|1,76725|2,76875|2,76875|3) - ctrl+h would be better because of pitch Nope.

01:24:175 (84175|2,84275|1,84375|2,84475|1,84575|2,84675|1,84775|2) - this makes no sense, pitches are different and there is trill. Why? Then how about this?

01:25:575 (85575|1,85725|1,85875|1,86025|1) - this anchor looks bad, you could avoid it easily while respecting "pitch" u used or something Sorry, I don't think so, and are you only looking for something like this jack from my patterns?

01:27:825 (87825|2) - why did you ignore this sound? You could add notes here and make SV as well. You're ignoring it for no reason. For better SV, I have to make a suitable choice, I think it will be fine if I don't add a note here, can I?

01:28:575 (88575|1,88725|1,88875|1,89025|1) - another anchor No

01:32:700 (92700|1,92850|1,93000|1,93150|1) - and another anchor for NO reason Adjust

01:37:050 (97050|1,97125|2,97200|3,97275|1,97275|2,97275|0) - ctrl+h for pitch and removing not needed 3 notes anchors.
You could also respect pitch more here, it would be nice. Nope, I prefer this.

01:40:725 (100725|1,100875|1) - 01:42:525 (102525|0,102675|0) - 01:43:725 (103725|2,103875|2) - etc. What's reasoning behind these? They're here for no reason, music don't call for them. It is also impossible for me to move to 3 and then conflict with 01:40:875 (100875|3,101025|2,101175|3) - . Other parts are same way. It is just a little thing, don't take it too serious.

01:41:325 (101325|0,101625|0,101925|0,102225|0,102525|0) - why are they here, if they are not the same pitch, you could do it more hand balanced Isn't that just the result if you call me to change the patterns in previous one mod you mentioned?

01:43:725 (103725|2,103875|2) - you could change this to 2 4 12 to avoid 01:53:175 (113175|3,113475|3,113775|3,114075|3,114375|3) - Changed one for you.

well gl

Protastic101 wrote:

Copying and pasting stuff from one difficulty of your map to another in the same set isn't unrankable per se, but it's kind of frowned upon for being "lazy" to some, and takes away replay value because there's very little to no variation present between diffs to make them unique in their own ways. Obviously Im not expecting some really crazy differences, but I mean if the hand movements are mostly the same throughout all diffs, it feels a bit bland to play the difficulties around it. Personally, I dislike the blatantly close similarities and don't think they would be a good addition to the current ranked mappool, so I'm vetoing this in the meantime.

On top of that, I'm not really a fan of how the streams are done in the top diff as I feel they create a lot of unnecessary anchors, and the gap between Normal to Hyper is also kind of big.

Some stuff

[General]

1. The offset was brought up in both Dorian and DD's mods so I discussed with some friends and we decided it was too early but we couldn't really agree on how much, then finally I asked Blocko for his opinion because he's ET
   
2. Kind of think that the HP of Leggendaria is too forgiving. There's quite a lot of short note jumpstreams and bursts, so I think using 8.5 to prevent easy reocvery and mash passing is good. As for the OD, I think you could probably decrease that by .2 or .3 cause there still is that LN section to worry about accing on.
3. As for the HP of Hyper, I think it could be reasonably raised to 7.5 as there is the kiai which is full of broken jumpstreams and 1/4 single bursts.
4. Final thing, there's a bit of silence at the end of the soft-hitnormal so I've cut that down for you https://puu.sh/wXluT.wav

[Mapset Issues]
00:03:675 - My first issue is here, where the Hyper uses a lot of 5 note 1/4 bursts and the Normal is covers over all of that with LNs. What I would do instead is add 1/2 bursts in the normal for the 1/4 bursts present in the music. Pic of the difference:


00:25:275 - Here's another example. The density of the Hyper here is about 2x higher than the Normal because the Normal utilizes single 1/2 broken streams (as in the spacing between rhythms has natural pauses for the synth that keep the stream from being continuous) whereas the Hyper is simply a 1/2 jumpstream. I would be fine if the normal used some jumps on the downbeats where the kicks play as it would introduce the player to some of the chord density to be found in the upper diffs, or if it simply used a full 1/2 single stream to introduce the player to the base drone of the following diffs, but it lakcs in both of these aspects which makes the Hyper diff feel alien and disconnected from the Normal. You'll see here that the Normal (left) is rather sparse but the Hyper (right) is pretty dense.


00:38:775 - Here's where the copied sections truly start. In the beginning there were some, but it's small enough to go unnoticed by most. Anyways, my main issue with this is that some of the patterns that are appropriate for a Hyper difficulty and above are present within the Normal difficulty because they're the same exact thing. In 4K, I greatly disagree with using triples in any case like you did at 00:42:075 - because most players have not yet fully mastered finger independence and would be unable to properly hit the chord. On top of that, the sound here is lacking in any kind of emphasis, so to use a triple here for the first time is unfitting because the music does not warrant a chord that stands out. The similarity is to the point that you can't tell which difficulty is which just by looking at a picture (without the density graph on the left hand side of the editor)


00:45:075 - Going off the above, you'll see that this change in the pitch of the strings(?) has more emphasis in the chart than the kick at 00:45:375 - which holds a heavier weight in the music due to the stronger bass present in the sound.

01:08:475 (68475|0,68475|1,68775|0,69075|0) - This is more just a general comment for the normal because I'm not going to be modding it in full, but I'd rather you flip the long note and short notes with each other here as it's harder to tap on the middle finger while the index finger is being anchored down with the LN hold. This is due to the way the muscles in your fingers all sort of depend on each other for strength because of their origin in the upper part of the lower arm.

01:18:075 - Final thing I'll mention about Normal -> Hyper spread is here as this is where I think the difference is greatest. If the Hyper had been 1/4 index streams, then the gap would be fine because the Normal uses some short 1/4 triplets and bursts, but the Hyper is pretty much a broken 1/4 jumpstream with a lot of continuous 1/4 and jumps at the end and starts to cap off the bursts.


01:26:475 - Just another example of the lack of a reasonable bridge between difficulties here is the density of this measure which is kind of reflective of the density disparity within the entire section


01:23:025 (83025|1,83325|1,83625|1,83925|1) - Last thing in the Normal is that I don't really think this stack is necessary because the synth I assume it's representing is constantly descending in pitch, so there's no reason to stack notes in a single column like this because it gives the player the false idea that the music is more or less ascending and descending in pitch all at once rather than only just the latter.


[Leggendaria]
00:03:375 (3375|1) - Shouldn't this be a 1/1 LN for the vocal because you mapped it in exactly that way at 00:05:775 (5775|3) - when the vocal sample is still the same.

00:05:775 (5775|3) - This is more of a harmless nitpick, but because the vocal pans to the left speaker, I think it'd be nice to move the LN to col 2 instead so that the LN is on the same side as the sound.

00:06:375 - 00:06:825 - Missing notes here for the quiet kind of snare? I'm bringing it up for consistency because 00:03:975 - 00:04:425 - is the same sound but in this case, it was ignored.
00:08:775 - 00:09:225 - 00:09:675 - 00:10:125 - Same thing as above. They're a bit quieter here but they still exist, and for consistency, I would add them so as to keep the rhythm the same within the phrase. Essentially, same sounds and structure would be mapped by the same rhythm so as to avoid confusing the player.

00:07:275 (7275|2,7350|0,7425|2,7500|0,7575|2,7725|1,7800|3,7875|1,7950|3,8025|1) - I think it'd be nice to vary the type of trills used as the same kind of 1-3-1-3 4-2-4-2 trills were used before. Maybe a 1-4-1-4 and 2-3-2-3 would work?

00:11:625 (11625|0,11625|1) - I think it'd be fine to make this [24] cause the spacing here is 1/2 but following after that it's 1/4, though the visuals haven't changed which could be potentially confusing to players who depend more on the visual cues than the audio (Example being one of my friends who plays without music for fun sometimes because why not).

00:12:975 (12975|2,13125|2,13275|2,13425|2,13575|2,13725|2,13875|2,14025|2) - You could easily break this long stack up by simply moving 00:13:425 (13425|2,14025|2) - to 1 instead. But this also goes hand in hand with my above reason, so maybe you could vary the actual jumptrill instead, like so https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8723269

00:23:475 (23475|2) - I would move this to col 1 so that the ministacks at 00:23:175 (23175|3,23325|3,23475|2,23625|2) - alternate hands for a more even weight

00:31:725 (31725|1,31875|1,32025|1,32175|1,32325|1,32475|1,32625|1,32775|1) - Don't think this long of a stack is really necessary. You could easily break it up into sets of three or two like this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8724508 . In this way, there's no excessive strain on any one hand.

00:42:075 (42075|2,42075|0,42075|3) - Tbh, I'm unsure of why this is a triple. The sound is almost exactly the same as 00:40:875 - but that's mapped with a jump. To add, I think if you're going to use triples, you ought to use at least one at 00:39:675 - at the start of the section where the crash + kick + bell is.
00:46:875 (46875|3,46875|2,46875|1) - Similar thing to above. At most, I believe this is only deserving of a jump due to the fairly calm orchestral background and soft kick.

00:47:775 (47775|1,48075|1) - Dunno why this is stacked with each other despite the fact that they aren't the same pitch or sound for that matter. I'd move the first note to col 3 instead then.

01:11:775 (71775|0,71850|1,71925|0,72000|1) - Shouldn't this be flipped and the starting note be 2-1-2-1? Assuming you're following the same stack structure from 01:08:475 - which I think is actually pretty cool. I just find it odd to suddenly break away from that and add a surprising minijack at 01:12:000 (72000|1,72075|1) - because of the structure break. Speaking of which, the minijack is pretty uncalled for since you haven't introduced anything like that at all so far into the map, nor do you use them any more after that.

01:18:375 (78375|2,78525|2,78675|2,78675|3,78825|3,78975|3) - Im mostly fine with the three note stacks even if Im not too huge of a fan of them, but what I really dislike is the fact that they're put on the same hand as each other, so the strain is pretty uneven with the left hand doing almost nothing and the right hand taking most of the weight. Instead, what I would do is split the stacks so that they alternate like so https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8724559

01:20:775 (80775|2,80925|2,81075|2) - Not a huge fan of abrupt direction turns such as this either due to the needless strain on the right hand with the three note stack and minitrill, so what I would do is try to make the pattern a bit more linear like this so that the weighting is more evenly spread out https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8724607

01:23:025 (83025|1,83175|1,83325|0,83475|0,83625|1,83775|1,83925|0,84075|0) - Some uneven stacking here because it's all on the left hand while the right hand alternates a long 1/2 trill. If it's intentional, I might consider splitting the weight onto two hands. So say for example, col 2 and 4 are where all the stacks are concentrated, and col 1 and 3 are where the trill happens.

01:24:175 (84175|2,84275|1,84375|2,84475|1,84575|2,84675|1,84775|2) - I think this 1/3 trill is repetitive what with being the same hand movement for two beats. Instead, I'd try to do a bit of variation by trilling them with 2/3 like so https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8724624

01:27:675 - One lonely SV rip. Tbh, I think the half half method here doesn't really do the 1/1 pause justice. What I would do is a bump instead, like 01:27:675 - 1.54x, then 01:27:750 - 0.82x. This averages to 1x so it's still consistent with the rest of the map's over all SV average, but puts a little more emphasis on the note at 01:27:675 - which starts the next half of the kiai. Personally though, I don't think it's necessary at all to use SVs since the sound isnt too loud or anything, and it kind of bleeds into the next section rather than being a clean break.

01:28:575 (88575|1,88725|1,88875|1,89025|1) - This stack is just too excessive to be justified by anything. On top of that, you don't even bother trying to even out the weighting here by putting some of the notes onto the right hand to accommodate for the long stack in 2. What I would do is something like this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8724652 . You still have the four note stack in col 4 from before and the direction turns are a bit off at times, but it still keeps true to what I think your original intention for the streams were in this section.

01:29:925 (89925|0,90000|1,90150|1,90225|0,90300|1,90450|1,90525|0) - Another example of uneven weighting for no real reason. I shouldn't really have to explain why it's uneven as Im quite sure I've beaten the dead horse enough already in my previous suggestions, but most of the movement is on the left hand while the right hand is stationary. Nothing I hear in the music can really be used to support this type of patterning, so I would try to make the movements fairly equal on both hands.
01:32:625 (92625|0,92700|1,92850|1,92925|0,92925|3,93000|1,93150|1,93225|0) - Same thing as above, but with a bit more density in it now.

01:31:275 (91275|3,91350|2,91500|2,91575|3,91650|2,91725|3) - Similarly, the stacks + minitrills are starting to be a bit overdone in my opinion.

01:36:675 (96675|2,96750|1,96825|2,96900|1) - Suggest control H here to avoid a direction turn going into the 3-2-3-2 trill and so it's a bit isolated from the pattern for symmetry as the beginning and end of the trill flow in the same direction at the rolls at 01:36:375 (96375|0,96450|1,96525|2,96600|3,96975|0,97050|1,97125|2,97200|3) -

Spy wrote:

Q: Copied map is not able to ranked.

Tofu1222 wrote:

[General]

• 
  The following mods apply to all diffs.

1. 01:37:285 (97285|0,98035|3) - Shouldn't 01:38:035 (98035|3) - start at 01:37:885 - ? What you did further have reflected that: even though 01:37:885 - this point is not the place where the sound makes its full volume, it is still where it starts. Changed
2. 01:39:685 (99685|0) - I think this LN should be splited into two 2/1 LNs cuz the pitch changes from C to D. Splited
3. 01:42:085 (102085|1,102685|0) - While this one should be merged into one LN because the pitch actually doesn't vary. Well, then.

[Normal]

1. 01:26:785 - 01:26:635 - 01:26:935 - 01:27:235 - 01:27:085 - Add these 1/2 notes to reduce the gap with Hyper and emphasize the drums. Added
2. 01:27:685 - Double for cymbal? Fine

[Hyper]

1. 00:04:885 (4885|1,4960|0,5035|1,5110|0,5185|1,5335|2,5410|3,5485|2,5560|3,5635|2) - 00:07:285 (7285|2,7360|3,7435|2,7510|3,7585|2,7735|1,7810|0,7885|1,7960|0,8035|1,8035|3) - The imbalance caused by these patterns have actually intensify the gap between Normal and Hyper. If you rearrange a bit to make some easier 1/4 stair patterns that will be great for an ideal spread. Rearranged patterns
2. 00:16:585 (16585|3,17185|0) - Ghost note? No melody sounds are there. Removed
3. 01:14:485 - I do have the same concern with CS here. For me, the best way is to get rid of 01:14:485 (74485|1) - this LN and make 1/4 rolls with single notes only. (Alternative: 01:14:485 - Nerf Shana's Another in this part. Try something like: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10982289 ) I changed them to 1/4

[Shana's Another]

• 
  Looks good!

[Leggendaria]

1. 00:17:860 (17860|1) - Should be on 00:18:010 - ? Or delete it because it is necessarily a ghost note.Moved to 00:18:010 -
2. 01:56:485 - It might be somewhat subjective but I do think from here the music is so calm that when you have a higher density of notes in between them it feels weird overall. Why not just use LNs so as to achieve a effect of fading out? That would make more sense to me. Agree. I just heard many sounds there but after put notes, it feels weird. Now I decide to remove them.

Otherwise the mapset looks very solid. Call me back.

Tofu1222 wrote:

Gap problems are being addressed. I don't wanna be more picky on this so let's give this a turn! Qualified :3

Short IRC

22:45 Tofu1222: 00:17:185 - 还有Hyper这里Ghost Note你没改

22:45 Tofu1222: 01:15:085 (75085|2,75160|1,75235|3,75310|0,75385|2,75460|1,75535|3,75610|1) - 这里hitsound错了 大概是你复制的问题

22:45 Tofu1222: 上面两个是Hyper

22:45 Tofu1222: 01:56:485 - L这里F音效删掉

22:46 Tofu1222: fix完喊我 看一下没问题就飞

22:47 Spy: 15085那個改啥

22:47 Spy: whistle?

22:51 Spy: ??

22:52 Tofu1222: 你看其他难度

22:53 Tofu1222: C

22:53 Tofu1222: 全是C

22:55 Spy: check kan kan

22:55 Spy: updated le

22:56 Tofu1222: 好的 可以

Protastic101 wrote:

Valid points have been raised that should be addressed. Taking this down for now

Cra Dow wrote:

Protastic101 wrote:

Valid points have been raised that should be addressed. Taking this down for now

Which points were the decisive ones for the disqualification? (I understand the mod about the timing, thou I'm curious about the rest being real issues (technical) or suggestions) I just wonder why the map had to wait 10 months for those valid points.

I might be going crazy but so many ninjas modding these days. They come when you less expect them... People should try to mod the maps they are "interested" in before qualification to avoid the annoyance for players of waiting for the time that the map gets to ranked after qualification. The mapper gets tired to and the bns might also not want/have the time to check the map again. Lets not make ranking even harder and 10 months is plenty of time to mod seriously. This is not a specific case thou, there are plenty of maps that wait and wait then qualification happens then someone feels like moding then bam disqualification then wait more and more................many projects get abandoned like this. This makes me sad.

The modders did not do bad for modding (actually I agree if the map has some serious issues like timing, snapping, wonky hitsounds, (technical stuff) fine disqualification), I just feel like people should try to mod before qualification to avoid making even more complicated to rank maps.

Protastic I suggest you to indicate which are the most important points to considerate out of the list and what is the stuff that the mapper REALLY NEEDS to change or the set will never get ranked, I am not sure what is the level of obligation of qat but it would be cool if qat members would do that always when doing their function.

qqqant wrote:

"you could be more user friendly with your timing."
he said the map went back in his radar because it got qualified. two BNs look through the map, and if the community is fine with it, it gets a free pass to ranked. if theres someone who points out a problem, its not because they want to ninja dq the map, its because they found a problem that the two BNs did not see.

in this situation though, it is strange that DD's older mod was glossed over. i think that may say something about the quality of these sorts of modding. ill let you interpret that how you will.

DDMythical wrote:

also if the charter gets demotivated after issues are found in their chart then that is ok, but quality standards should be adhered to or atleast tried to adhere to - you shouldn't rank things just because if you were to dq them the mapper would get upset.

Alternater wrote:

HI FRIENDS
I wanna join this conversation as well as offer a mod toward leggendaria.

I've played "leggendaria" quite a bit, and I want to say, that as it currently stands, is very underwhelming when it comes to the decisions toward the overall structure of the diff compared to what the song has to offer. When I listen to the song "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ7vM4MUYCg" I hear chances to add sick LN structure, some burst/slow jam SV, and restructuring the ending kiai better; Because stairs and doubles+hands for 20 seconds straight with perhaps the only change in that kiai is the 1/6 which only last 2 seconds at 01:24:085 - is as boring to patterning as u can get. Atm, I see this map to be one of the safest routes to an easy rank as possible. I don't even see any slight thing to differentiate this map from being super generic to a map having at least experimental patterns to the ranked section.

Comparing your "leggendaria" Bro gamer "https://osu.ppy.sh/s/617846" map (which is (in my opinion) one of the best 4* maps still to now) It shows differentiation in patterning usage, amazing structure, and you've utilized the patterns in the song choice so well.

Going toward your "Go Ahead" the "leggendaria" is pretty much the opposite of that, the patterning usage is such a bore, the structure is debatable (anchors are just flying all over the place + c/p patterns are pretty much noticeable whilst playing) and the song choice is amazing, but the decisions you took toward this could be so much better.

CONCLUSION
This is a target, I'm pretty much disappointed in the fact that a skilled mapper such as yourself spent 8 months to create this diff, I expected better from you, especially from Brogamer. I'm sorry that this is a very extremely targeted and mean mod but my conclusive suggestion is "This map is a bore and halfassed, plz open up the structure of your decisions to better fit the songs choices"

Tofu1222 wrote:

At first when you mention your mapping intentions of this song, I can see your ideas in experimenting stuff, but this map is never "one of the safest routes to an easy rank as possible", and it is just Spy's style that shapes this mapset. Also, "being super generic to a map having at least experimental patterns to the ranked section" doesn't make it wrong and bad from all perspective, and I think this is quite a subjective topic if you go into too much.

DDMythical wrote:

dont want to be blunt but there's literally no reason for cra dow or qqq to be posting right now - you're just detracting from the mods being posted so just please stop