Maxus wrote:

weee another one xd
Congrats for the qualify! dat bg.. wanna big fav huh? :p

1. The map seems like it tries to be special in certain ways, but many parts ended up being either overdone or not well-thought out for the song:
2. 00:00:074 - to 00:08:916 - Starting right at the beginning, the 1/2 singletaps are too much compared to what is actually offered in the song at this point, about 50% of the taps land on weak, barely-emphasized snare sounds (red ticks).
   Keep in mind that the tempo of the song is already pretty high, 1/2 sliders would be more fitting to the intensity of the song for the intro. What really annoys me however are the triples (00:01:179 (8,9,1) - , 00:02:442 (8,9,1) - etc.) at the beginning that are way too overspaced. It'd be less forced to play if you just stack them instead.
3. Extended sliders (3/4 sliders) are overused / inproperly used in this map. It is fine to a certain extent to give notion to strong or special notes in the track, using too many of them usually results in maps with wonky rhythms that are most of the time unnatural and forced to play:
   
   1. 00:11:126 (1) - Doesn't emphasize anything specific in the song and thus should be cropped to 1/2. Similar occasions where this happens:
      00:18:705 (1) - 00:21:547 (1) - 00:22:810 (1) - 00:23:442 (4) - 00:24:074 (1) - 00:38:600 (4) - 01:37:968 (1) - etc.
      00:26:600 (1) - The whole slider pattern here at 00:25:968 (1,2,1) - feels weird as well since you weren't focussing on vocals after 00:21:547 - . Make clear what exactly you follow with your rhythm here.
      00:46:179 (1,2,1) - It seemingly follows the vocals, but 00:44:284 (1,1,1) - previous sliders clearly follow the e-guitar, which makes rhythm pretty confusing here. Ending 00:46:179 (1) - on 00:46:652 - instead would make it clearer.
   2. 00:12:547 (1,2) - Feels too forced and would be better if you swap these with only a slider instead. Same goes to:
      00:34:179 (1,2) - 00:46:810 (1,2) -
4. 00:31:179 (1,2,3) - This feels pretty forced if it's just for the sake of the vocals since those aren't that strong to warrant buzz sliderjumps.
5. 00:41:600 - There's a lack of differentiation towards the previous section of the music. Song gets less intense, but you're still spacing /positioning objects high, the same way as before.
6. 00:51:863 - Pretty sad about this since a build-up would've been nice here. Jumping right into a vertical jumps section isn't the greatest idea, ramping up spacing slowly would've been more fitting to the song. In general, try to balance out the difficulty according to different sections of a song.
7. 00:56:916 (1,2) - Two major problems I see with the kiai time here:
   
   1. 1. Overdoing sliders. Now I get that sliders are funnier and entertaining to play, but if it doesn't correlate with the song there's no sense in doing so. The 1/4 sliders in particular for the kiai, with 01:15:547 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - being a prime example of overdoing patterns. There are others following like 01:27:547 (1,2,1,2) -
   2. 2. Repetition. There's no place for rhythm variation here since you decided to make a big slidertrain here, which doesn't reflect the song well at all. It's seven times the same rhythm in a row starting from 00:58:179 - (8 times actually, 00:56:916 (1,2) - should be a single slider only if i were to follow your current logic), which is pretty bland, don't you think?
8. 01:51:389 (1,2,3,4,5) - Doesn't follow anything properly and the spacing on the ministream feels really huge.

Pho wrote:

Hi there Shad0w1and o/ Before seeing this map being pushed through the ranked section, I have some quality concerns about the highest difficulty of this set:

[Ultra]

1. The map seems like it tries to be special in certain ways, but many parts ended up being either overdone or not well-thought out for the song: I do not think so, and I am not trying to be special on mapping, in this map I was trying to present the strong vocal and instruments with various slider shapes. I was also using these sliders to control the flow of the diff, so most point on your mod are already invalid.
2. 00:00:074 - to 00:08:916 - Starting right at the beginning, the 1/2 singletaps are too much compared to what is actually offered in the song at this point, about 50% of the taps land on weak, barely-emphasized snare sounds (red ticks).
   Keep in mind that the tempo of the song is already pretty high, 1/2 sliders would be more fitting to the intensity of the song for the intro. What really annoys me however are the triples (00:01:179 (8,9,1) - , 00:02:442 (8,9,1) - etc.) at the beginning that are way too overspaced. It'd be less forced to play if you just stack them instead. It is not over spaced compare to the latter section. In fact, with out HT, this part is the only part I could play and FC. This diff was designed as an Ultra since beginnning, it is expected to be much harder compare to Lami's Extra
3. Extended sliders (3/4 sliders) are overused / inproperly used in this map. It is fine to a certain extent to give notion to strong or special notes in the track, using too many of them usually results in maps with wonky rhythms that are most of the time unnatural and forced to play:
   
   1. 00:11:126 (1) - Doesn't emphasize anything specific in the song and thus should be cropped to 1/2. Similar occasions where this happens:
      00:18:705 (1) - 00:21:547 (1) - 00:22:810 (1) - 00:23:442 (4) - 00:24:074 (1) - 00:38:600 (4) - 01:37:968 (1) - etc.
      00:26:600 (1) - The whole slider pattern here at 00:25:968 (1,2,1) - feels weird as well since you weren't focussing on vocals after 00:21:547 - . Make clear what exactly you follow with your rhythm here.
      00:46:179 (1,2,1) - It seemingly follows the vocals, but 00:44:284 (1,1,1) - previous sliders clearly follow the e-guitar, which makes rhythm pretty confusing here. Ending 00:46:179 (1) - on 00:46:652 - instead would make it clearer.
   2. 00:12:547 (1,2) - Feels too forced and would be better if you swap these with only a slider instead. Same goes to:
      00:34:179 (1,2) - 00:46:810 (1,2) -
   This point is not valid as I explained at the beginning, you fail to understand my idea for this diff, it is not for people to single tap on these drum beats at the kiai, although I know that will be easier, however, when I design this diff I was trying to keep the constant flow and motion pressure on the player, because the song has a very strong background music, and vocal, by only give 1/2 single tap I think it will be way too mindless to follow the drum beats, which I did in my lower diffs. Yes, when I map a song for 3 times, I will not try to use exactly the same rhythm choice for Hyper/Another/Ultra. Also, because I added strong HS additions on the slider heads, the HS in the tail is not a problem according to the test plays and my self tests with HT
4. 00:31:179 (1,2,3) - This feels pretty forced if it's just for the sake of the vocals since those aren't that strong to warrant buzz sliderjumps. Either way worked, I do not think current got any problems
5. 00:41:600 - There's a lack of differentiation towards the previous section of the music. Song gets less intense, but you're still spacing /positioning objects high, the same way as before. uhmmmm... I can't agree to you.... as I placed the green lines before I started mapping.... Ipersonally feel these two sections got the same intensity....
6. 00:51:863 - Pretty sad about this since a build-up would've been nice here. Jumping right into a vertical jumps section isn't the greatest idea, ramping up spacing slowly would've been more fitting to the song. In general, try to balance out the difficulty according to different sections of a song. again I think either way worked tho xc.... the build up was like since the beginning tho... this whole diff was kinda jumpy, so I think current patterns fit the theme tho .....
7. 00:56:916 (1,2) - Two major problems I see with the kiai time here:
   
   1. 1. Overdoing sliders. Now I get that sliders are funnier and entertaining to play, but if it doesn't correlate with the song there's no sense in doing so. The 1/4 sliders in particular for the kiai, with 01:15:547 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - being a prime example of overdoing patterns. There are others following like 01:27:547 (1,2,1,2) -
   2. 2. Repetition. There's no place for rhythm variation here since you decided to make a big slidertrain here, which doesn't reflect the song well at all. It's seven times the same rhythm in a row starting from 00:58:179 - (8 times actually, 00:56:916 (1,2) - should be a single slider only if i were to follow your current logic), which is pretty bland, don't you think?
   to me for this song, sadly there is no clear way I could make a diverse rhythm choice. I was very sad about it when I mapped to this part, because the main rhythm itself was not the diverse, as you can see in all of my diffs the kiai was using the repetitive rhythm, I tested very hard and the slider shape thing come to my mind, I spend more than 10 hours to just shape these sliders to make them look good to my aesthetics, also I try to shaped sliders to control the flow so targeted players will be able to catch my"train" as you said.
8. 01:51:389 (1,2,3,4,5) - Doesn't follow anything properly and the spacing on the ministream feels really huge. this one is a commonly used technic to use the stream to overwrite the piano sweeps, because make it a hold for buzz slider will be too easy for this diff and for its strong sound, but do smt like ctb snap it to 1/12 will also be a over kill, therefore current solution is the best for me.

Sorry if I sound blunt, but this map doesn't look well executed to me at all. Many concepts you used in this map lack proper application which I explained above, and this seems to need more work before being ranked imo. Other peoples opinion's matter ofc, so it might be good to ask around. Anyways, good luck with the set o/

Shad0w1and wrote:

Pho wrote:

Hi there Shad0w1and o/ Before seeing this map being pushed through the ranked section, I have some quality concerns about the highest difficulty of this set:

[Ultra]

1. The map seems like it tries to be special in certain ways, but many parts ended up being either overdone or not well-thought out for the song: I do not think so, and I am not trying to be special on mapping, in this map I was trying to present the strong vocal and instruments with various slider shapes. I was also using these sliders to control the flow of the diff, so most point on your mod are already invalid.
   
   Just saying it now since you always raise that point again in your reply: I have no complaints about your aesthetics and slidershapes at all, this one's somewhat subjective anyway. The actual issue is in how you use extended sliders in this map in general. A map flowing and playing well doesn't mean a thing if your rhythm placement doesn't work out with the song. I explained it further below.
   
   
2. 00:00:074 - to 00:08:916 - Starting right at the beginning, the 1/2 singletaps are too much compared to what is actually offered in the song at this point, about 50% of the taps land on weak, barely-emphasized snare sounds (red ticks).
   Keep in mind that the tempo of the song is already pretty high, 1/2 sliders would be more fitting to the intensity of the song for the intro. What really annoys me however are the triples (00:01:179 (8,9,1) - , 00:02:442 (8,9,1) - etc.) at the beginning that are way too overspaced. It'd be less forced to play if you just stack them instead. It is not over spaced compare to the latter section. In fact, with out HT, this part is the only part I could play and FC. This diff was designed as an Ultra since beginnning, it is expected to be much harder compare to Lami's Extra
   
   The issue here is that this part is too motion-intense compared to how quiet this part of the song is. While the singletaps are acceptable for an Extra since you also spaced them fairly low and with DS, the spaced triples are questionable since they add too much tempo in this section and should be stacked or at least lower-spaced to fit the quietness in the intro. Also try not to use Ultra as a high-end difficulty as an excuse to make harder patterns, it's not a valid one and I am more concerned about how your patterns reflect the song than how difficult it is actually to play.
   
3. Extended sliders (3/4 sliders) are overused / inproperly used in this map. It is fine to a certain extent to give notion to strong or special notes in the track, using too many of them usually results in maps with wonky rhythms that are most of the time unnatural and forced to play:
   
   1. 00:11:126 (1) - Doesn't emphasize anything specific in the song and thus should be cropped to 1/2. Similar occasions where this happens:
      00:18:705 (1) - 00:21:547 (1) - 00:22:810 (1) - 00:23:442 (4) - 00:24:074 (1) - 00:38:600 (4) - 01:37:968 (1) - etc.
      00:26:600 (1) - The whole slider pattern here at 00:25:968 (1,2,1) - feels weird as well since you weren't focussing on vocals after 00:21:547 - . Make clear what exactly you follow with your rhythm here.
      00:46:179 (1,2,1) - It seemingly follows the vocals, but 00:44:284 (1,1,1) - previous sliders clearly follow the e-guitar, which makes rhythm pretty confusing here. Ending 00:46:179 (1) - on 00:46:652 - instead would make it clearer.
   2. 00:12:547 (1,2) - Feels too forced and would be better if you swap these with only a slider instead. Same goes to:
      00:34:179 (1,2) - 00:46:810 (1,2) -
   This point is not valid as I explained at the beginning, you fail to understand my idea for this diff, it is not for people to single tap on these drum beats at the kiai, although I know that will be easier, however, when I design this diff I was trying to keep the constant flow and motion pressure on the player, because the song has a very strong background music, and vocal, by only give 1/2 single tap I think it will be way too mindless to follow the drum beats, which I did in my lower diffs. Yes, when I map a song for 3 times, I will not try to use exactly the same rhythm choice for Hyper/Another/Ultra. Also, because I added strong HS additions on the slider heads, the HS in the tail is not a problem according to the test plays and my self tests with HT
   
   Constant flow and motion pressure only makes sense if the song had about the same intensity throughout it's whole length. And this song certainly is not constant, it has ups and downs. The problem lies in how you utilize extended and buzzsliders for Ultra.
   
   Maybe I was too inprecise, so here's a concrete example:
   00:56:916 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - If I were to compare the kiais of Ultra to the ones in your Insane difficulty, the latter are actually fine because it is clear what exactly you want to focus on with the extended sliders - the vocals, since that is also what is the most noticeable layer in this section. Then in Ultra, you decided to make motion-heavy extended slider/ 1/4 sliderjumps with focus on the instruments/e-guitar in the background - which are considerably weaker than the vocal. And you did this for around 50% of the map. This is what I mean when I said some of those patterns are overdone, the background music isn't that intense to make such motion-heavy patterns.
   
   And I already mentioned one of these above at 01:15:547 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - , which should be revised again, because focus lies on drums from 01:14:600 - to 01:17:126 - and should be emphasized with circleclicks, so I'm irritated why you suddenly decided to put in 1/4 sliders after 01:15:547 - (starting those at 01:15:863 - makes more sense tbh). Singletapping to drums here might sound like it's a generic thing to do here mapping-wise, and yea it actually is. But it makes more sense in relation to the music instead of putting 1/4 sliders in places where they don't fit.
   
4. 00:31:179 (1,2,3) - This feels pretty forced if it's just for the sake of the vocals since those aren't that strong to warrant buzz sliderjumps. Either way worked, I do not think current got any problems
5. 00:41:600 - There's a lack of differentiation towards the previous section of the music. Song gets less intense, but you're still spacing /positioning objects high, the same way as before. uhmmmm... I can't agree to you.... as I placed the green lines before I started mapping.... Ipersonally feel these two sections got the same intensity....
   
   It's pretty noticeable if you compare the note density of the background instruments of this part to the previous part.
6. 00:51:863 - Pretty sad about this since a build-up would've been nice here. Jumping right into a vertical jumps section isn't the greatest idea, ramping up spacing slowly would've been more fitting to the song. In general, try to balance out the difficulty according to different sections of a song. again I think either way worked tho xc.... the build up was like since the beginning tho... this whole diff was kinda jumpy, so I think current patterns fit the theme tho .....
   
   I mean for 00:51:863 - to 00:55:652 - specifically, since vocals raise up 00:51:863 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - here so you could ramp up the spacing for this pattern.
   
7. 00:56:916 (1,2) - Two major problems I see with the kiai time here:
   
   1. 1. Overdoing sliders. Now I get that sliders are funnier and entertaining to play, but if it doesn't correlate with the song there's no sense in doing so. The 1/4 sliders in particular for the kiai, with 01:15:547 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - being a prime example of overdoing patterns. There are others following like 01:27:547 (1,2,1,2) -
   2. 2. Repetition. There's no place for rhythm variation here since you decided to make a big slidertrain here, which doesn't reflect the song well at all. It's seven times the same rhythm in a row starting from 00:58:179 - (8 times actually, 00:56:916 (1,2) - should be a single slider only if i were to follow your current logic), which is pretty bland, don't you think?
   to me for this song, sadly there is no clear way I could make a diverse rhythm choice. I was very sad about it when I mapped to this part, because the main rhythm itself was not the diverse, as you can see in all of my diffs the kiai was using the repetitive rhythm, I tested very hard and the slider shape thing come to my mind, I spend more than 10 hours to just shape these sliders to make them look good to my aesthetics, also I try to shaped sliders to control the flow so targeted players will be able to catch my"train" as you said.
   
   I suppose the point about repetition isn't that much of an issue, and yes you did the same in the lower difficulties where it actually worked out fine because the rhythms were fine. In Ultra it doesn't work out well as I've already explained above. Again, playability is not the issue here, your rhythm placement is.
   
8. 01:51:389 (1,2,3,4,5) - Doesn't follow anything properly and the spacing on the ministream feels really huge. this one is a commonly used technic to use the stream to overwrite the piano sweeps, because make it a hold for buzz slider will be too easy for this diff and for its strong sound, but do smt like ctb snap it to 1/12 will also be a over kill, therefore current solution is the best for me.

It is fine if the snapping overwrite isn't too noticeable or the ideal snapping would make it hard to play, but here it certainly is not because the stream doesn't follow a thing in the song. You can go with 1/2 ticks for the drums here, or 3/4 to give notion to the piano sweeps (see Delis' set), but the current rhythm is no great solution.

Sorry if I sound blunt, but this map doesn't look well executed to me at all. Many concepts you used in this map lack proper application which I explained above, and this seems to need more work before being ranked imo. Other peoples opinion's matter ofc, so it might be good to ask around. Anyways, good luck with the set o/

I know it is not a creative map to many people's standard, however, my idea was very clear, also I did many test plays and according to the test player they could catch my flow with these "werid" sliders, and that is why I believe this map should be able to get ranked. aesthetics is a very weird term, because I truly believe I made a great flow with sliders, many player agree to me. however, some mappers disagree to my because in the editor it does not look that pretty. My response is: the map is for play, for me it is pretty.

nextplay wrote:

Lol why is Kisses Diff Novice instead of Normal because Maps like this https://osu.ppy.sh/s/156235 are useing Novice>Advanced>Exhaust but here it is Novice>Advanced>Hard>Insane

Pho wrote:

I'm aware of the difficulty of the map, and my points still stand.
There are clear differences in intensity in the track which you can highlight in terms of spacing and rhythm density. And you did care of that in your Another difficulty, just look at 00:41:758 - this section compared to the previous one (you even set bookmarks that logically separates sections from each other), so why you chose to make it all constant on the ultra difficulty is a big question mark for me.
Also, the way you described your kickslider usage is questionable, it sounds like you arbitrarily used kicksliders whenever you see fit. While your rhythms are consistent, the one your measurements in the kiai are based on (00:56:916 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,3) - ) doesn't work out well in the Ultra, in contrast to Another and Hyper, due to what I already wrote above. (Speaking of, you seem to dodge giving answer to the specific timestamps I pointed out, oh well)

1. There are some overmaps that I don't quite understand:
   01:32:205 (5) -
   01:38:837 (2) -
   01:39:468 (2) -
   00:18:942 (7) - especially this one since it gives the impression that this and 00:19:258 (2) - this are the same pattern but the sounds in the song suggest otherwise.
2. 01:37:810 (3) - not sure what you're emphasising with this 1/4. This would be a 1/4 slider too? 01:38:283 (2) -
3. 01:38:600 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - compared to 01:41:126 (1,2) - is quite a huge disparity in intensity even tho the sounds are same-ish.
4. 00:13:495 (4) - probably reconsider 1/4 slider concepts because this kinda undermines places where actual 1/4 exists like 00:15:863 (1,2) -
5. 01:16:495 (4,5) - also this. Rhythm is like, 1/2 into triple but you make it sound like it's just 1/4 anyway (or 1/2)
6. 01:18:389 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - same differentiation issue, actually this note 01:18:547 (2) - is overmapped. I can't figure out what you're trying to emphasise with this fancy pattern that happens only once in the map.
7. 01:22:810 (3) - you overmap here but not 01:24:074 (3) - 01:21:547 (3) -

Pho wrote:

The people here already tried to explain to you what the flaws of your mapping philosophy are, and also why the sliderends are a major problem here; see pishi's answer/battle's final paragraph/my posts regarding that. Mapping to a song means that you work with the song, and not utilize it as a mere tool to put your mapping ideas into a map.

I'm willing to help out with the map if you need it, so feel free to ask me when you find me online.

LMT wrote:

Since this is dq'd, consider some of these points for moecho's diff:

1. There are some overmaps that I don't quite understand:
   01:32:205 (5) -
   01:38:837 (2) -
   01:39:468 (2) -
   00:18:942 (7) - especially this one since it gives the impression that this and 00:19:258 (2) - this are the same pattern but the sounds in the song suggest otherwise.
2. 01:37:810 (3) - not sure what you're emphasising with this 1/4. This would be a 1/4 slider too? 01:38:283 (2) -
3. 01:38:600 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - compared to 01:41:126 (1,2) - is quite a huge disparity in intensity even tho the sounds are same-ish.
4. 00:13:495 (4) - probably reconsider 1/4 slider concepts because this kinda undermines places where actual 1/4 exists like 00:15:863 (1,2) -
5. 01:16:495 (4,5) - also this. Rhythm is like, 1/2 into triple but you make it sound like it's just 1/4 anyway (or 1/2)
6. 01:18:389 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - same differentiation issue, actually this note 01:18:547 (2) - is overmapped. I can't figure out what you're trying to emphasise with this fancy pattern that happens only once in the map.
7. 01:22:810 (3) - you overmap here but not 01:24:074 (3) - 01:21:547 (3) -

Gl on reranking this.

LMT wrote:

I meant overmaps not overlaps ; ;

LMT wrote:

yeah but my concern is it's not done consistently or it undermines the effect of actual sounds when you overmap. I'm fine with some overmap, but not when it makes the rhythm of the song misleading.

LMT wrote:

Since this is dq'd, consider some of these points for moecho's diff:

1. There are some overmaps that I don't quite understand:
   01:32:205 (5) - It is intentional to express/prepare for a more intense phase in the song
   01:38:837 (2) - If you listen closely, the "n-" sound actually starts at the blue line, also as I find it fitting more
   01:39:468 (2) - The "s-" sound starts there, and I find it fitting as well
   00:18:942 (7) - especially this one since it gives the impression that this and 00:19:258 (2) - this are the same pattern but the sounds in the song suggest otherwise. Being one of the most intense parts of the song, I find it more fitting than placing a big jump to emphasize, and also what's wrong with 00:19:258 (2) - ?
2. 01:37:810 (3) - not sure what you're emphasising with this 1/4. This would be a 1/4 slider too? 01:38:283 (2) - They are clearly not exactly the same, as 01:37:810 (3) - being a loud snare, and 01:38:442 (3) - being basically a small guitar note sound
3. 01:38:600 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - compared to 01:41:126 (1,2) - is quite a huge disparity in intensity even tho the sounds are same-ish. They are clearly not the "same-ish", it's a build up to 01:42:389 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - , also it's a preference of what you want to follow in the song
4. 00:13:495 (4) - probably reconsider 1/4 slider concepts because this kinda undermines places where actual 1/4 exists like 00:15:863 (1,2) - It's all about what you want to emphasize, I would feel rather empty to have a single note there, and musically speaking it does fit for me
5. 01:16:495 (4,5) - also this. Rhythm is like, 1/2 into triple but you make it sound like it's just 1/4 anyway (or 1/2) So I guess in this manner I should map out every single beat and sound only in this map, and no more no less? Sorry that my mapping preference isn't same as yours. Music is a feeling, mapping is expressing your feeling for the song, respect that, as well as it's not a major issue here at all, it's just a preference
6. 01:18:389 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - same differentiation issue, actually this note 01:18:547 (2) - is overmapped. I can't figure out what you're trying to emphasise with this fancy pattern that happens only once in the map. First, according to your logic, 01:18:863 (2) - this would also be a "overmap". Second, I don't know if you enjoy listening songs at 25% and don't hear the music as a whole or not, but every 01:18:389 (1,2) - , 01:18:705 (1,2) - , 01:19:021 (1,2) - here represent a bass pick of 1/2s, and there's really nothing to complain about mapping to the music, it would feel wierd if I skipped one of the notes just to be "not overmapping because it's not quite audible". last, it's not about "figuring" out what a mapper want to do, you simply just feel it or not feel it
7. 01:22:810 (3) - you overmap here but not 01:24:074 (3) - 01:21:547 (3) - They are in fact not the same, 01:21:705 (4,4) - do you hear any guitar sound on these? And then check the 01:22:968 (4) - , understand now? The kick slider is a way to emphasize an instrument quick switch as well as the required movement distance IS in fact increased even if you just click the heads of kick slider. Kick sliders DOES make the player feel different about how the objects are composed comparing to how it would feel with regular 1/2 circles

pls no hate just passing by ; ;

iYiyo wrote:

Okay so I want to give some opinions about the "drama" here.

The map is overall cool to play. The playstyle it gives it's quite unique imo, really challenging tbh.

Idk why people say it "doesn't" follow the music... like... that's why all maps are very similar to each other nowadays xd Every map uses 1/2 all the time cause that's some generic/safe stuff xd Have to say that, however, the map follows good the music in some ways
Imo it could've follow the music a bit better, but still it's good right now. 1/4 sliders are following drum quite well and the 3/4 creates enough variaton + following vocals good so not big worries about that imo.

So... since it's already DQ, I also wanted to give some thoughts about the gameplay itself. Not gonna argue about the style overall cause that's just some subjective sh*t.

ultra (why no custom diffname for such unique playstile¿?)
01:42:389 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1) - Since the map focus on reading and not shitmissing with the sliders, those jumps felt waaaay too high. I'd suggest to do some jumps with similar DS as 00:54:705 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1) -.
01:47:442 - I'm very dissapointed with these jumps tbh.. Like they're pure jump ¿? I was playing the map and then these jumps appeared and I was like.. wut? xD I know you didn't want to do similar pattern like 00:11:442 - cause of the drums... but it'd be nice if you add some slider aswell, cause right now they feel like jumps with no real purpose on the map itself.

Okay so those points were my major problems while playing the map... Hope you can get a look to them!
Imo this is just a different map, but it plays nice and well so all this drama won't really help.

Anyway. GL on re-ranking this! o/

Monstrata wrote:

However, because of how they are shaped, they create a rotational flow. It's largely visual in terms of the flow, as in you ca probably still play them similar to how they are as circles, and still get 300's, but unlike circles, you can no longer assume everyone will play these patterns exactly how you would have wanted. Flow analysis is easy on circle patterns, but when you introduce sliders, it becomes more complicated due to slider leniency, and people's ability to release early / play the slider to different lengths. Anyways the main point I'm saying is that kickslider usage can actually create a feeling that would otherwise be nonexistent if they were just circles.

Battle wrote:

I'll add a bit of my opinion on the ultra since Pho already added his

[Ultra]
00:10:652 (3,1) - I don't really see a reason to have this snapped 1/8 here, it heavily increases the precision it takes to hit 1 properly while also making it easier for people to get 100 on the slider because more often than not a player will expect a 1/4 slider not a really awkwardly snapped to a yellow slider it is not a problem because the NC hint and the pattern
00:13:337 (4,5) - I don't exactly see why you've made this jump abnormally big, all those guitar beats are far stronger than this, this jump seems to exist just to exist I wish people can stop talking about minor spacing issues, they does not affect the playing experience and also for my style it has nothing to do with my designing.
00:14:442 (3,1) - Would have been better if you had used a 1/2 slider instead, having both really isn't practical since 3 is obviously more important (and you've been following the guitar), making a 1/2 slider make much more sense imo actually, to me this only have two solution for ultra: 00:14:600 (1,2,3,4) - all 1/4 kick sliders or 4 notes, and that is it. I think kick sliders will be NG so i go with current.
00:16:495 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - This feels more like it breaks up into a 123456 123456 pattern rather than a 1234 1234 1234 pattern, the pitch changes at 00:17:126 (1) - but a much larger pitch change occurs at 00:17:442 (3) - . In addition to this there's not really an increase in intensity happening here, the jumps are consistently around the same spacing while the music is increasing in intensity here uhm... i disagree about this...
00:21:547 - For this section I feel as if the 3/4 usage is fairly poor, many of the 3/4 go over beats on the red tick, and though it is arguable that these beats are ignorable, this section is filled with consistent 1/2 beats that feel fairly calm compared to the adjacent sections. I feel it's inappropriate to have such a calm section still have a high SV of 1.4x, but I suppose that's subjective as to how fast it feels if you were mention the beat on 00:21:705 - it is presented as an angle. spacing is fine to the theme.
00:31:179 (1,2,3) - While I am all for using 1/4 sliders to create fast feeling gameplay to support a "mood" of things being more fast-paced, I don't really see the point in using 1/4 sliders here, the music definitely picks up in intensity here, but not to the point where overmapping 1/4 sliders is appropriate this has been discussed before and either way worked, I choose to build to the intensity
00:38:600 (4,5) - An extended slider doesn't really make sense here, you're skipping over a vocal beat which you've been following, you may want to stick to your theme of 3/4 sliders but you can't exactly just break away from what you're following, it feels awkwardly inconsistent both to hear and to play slider angle can present vocal beat, that is my theory and it make more sense to the music
00:50:600 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4) - This is another section where the section is definitely increasing in intensity, most notably at 00:51:231 (1,2,3,4) - yet maintains consistent spacing with the rest of this section of small spaced 1/2 stuff it is not like you have to place every note according to its intensity. the space does not work, but not always the best way to present the music.

Like Pho, I feel like the 1/4 sliders are overused in the kiai, the song just really doesn't call for something that creates pseudo-intensity as much as these 1/4 sliders do. The part where I felt fit the 1/4 sliders during the kiai was the calmer sections from 01:07:337 - to 01:12:074 - simply because it worked well with the drum hitsounding and keeping the relative intensity of the other parts of the kiai. Other than that there's very little drums to support the 1/4 sliders in the kiai as there's no drums to support them, only vocals, which makes it very awkward to hear and play in my opinion. explained enough in other posts

01:29:758 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - I would expect this to fit in more of the lines of something like 01:06:231 (3,1,2,3,4,1) - since the vocals are fairly calm here, if not that kind of spacing probably more along the lines of 01:26:600 (1,2,1,2) - but a bit more spaced out of course drums are stronger here
01:47:442 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - I also agree that the spacing for here doesn't really follow what the music provides. It does not really follow the stronger beats, making weaker beats (e.g. 01:49:495 (2,3) - ) the same spacing as the stronger beats. again, spacing is not everything, and over all spacing fits the intensity

From what I understand, you've mapped purposely with larger spacing to make it more "difficult". While I do not really have a problem with the concept of that itself, it becomes an issue for me when it's mapped solely for the difficulty aspect of it instead of what the song offers. You clearly acknowledge pp mapping and it's existence, yet I don't really see why you purposely follow that trend when you know that it's fairly unreasonable. In an ideal world a map would have great aesthetics and flow and not be generic but it seems like great aesthetics and flow just falls under generic pp mapping majority of the time. While I do appreciate the effort on focusing on flow, I feel like you shouldn't completely ignore aesthetics by using differing slider shapes all the time to break visual consistency just cuz

Shad0w1and wrote:

Battle wrote:

I'll add a bit of my opinion on the ultra since Pho already added his

[Ultra]
00:10:652 (3,1) - I don't really see a reason to have this snapped 1/8 here, it heavily increases the precision it takes to hit 1 properly while also making it easier for people to get 100 on the slider because more often than not a player will expect a 1/4 slider not a really awkwardly snapped to a yellow slider it is not a problem because the NC hint and the pattern

bor wrote:

to kind of elaborate on what monstrata said about 1/4 sliders giving a rushed feeling:

in terms of how 1/4 sliders play, it does require some amount of holding which 1/2 circles very much do not require. this holding gives tails of the sliders some sense of value and within this map, you use both rhythmic representations of the 1/4 sliders and the 1/2 circles to represent roughly the same sounds in the music. the changes you have between these circles and sliders are curious, because from looking at this maps its as if you felt they have the same value. because this seems to be your approach its almost as if there is really no definition you have created, and thus a lot of people find this map inconsistent, and in terms of using object mechanics correctly, low quality.

Sinnoh wrote:

The NC thing might be a reason to justify, except you're NCing anywhere and everywhere possible to emphasize anything. There's no reason why it should be read as a 1/8 'because NC' when the whole diff NCs in uncommon parts to emphasize stuff without 1/8s.