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LiSA - Catch the Moment -Radio Edit ver.-

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Lami
im okay about dat hitsound point.

At Hazu-'s modding, im okay dat point, since i just copied hitsound. i'd like to follow vocal at here.
disable widescreen plzzz
Monstrata
Ultra

00:12:547 (1,3) - These shapes could be more relatable for better visual consistency.
00:32:758 (6,1) - Stacking isn't a good idea cuz of the downbeat losing emphasis xP.
00:47:126 (2,3,1,2,3) - These aren't following a layer in particular. You can click on each circle and its following something, but theyre all following some different instrument. Pick a rhythm and stick with it here, this is too ambiguous and its also rather dense for the section.
00:49:337 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - Also sounds overmapped to me... why all the clicks? You could have integrated more 1/2 slider rhythms here.
00:51:863 - Makes a lot more sense to transition to 1/2 clicking rhythm after this point,.
00:56:916 (1,2) - This is overmapped. Refer to how you do 00:58:179 (1) - 00:59:442 (1) - etc...
01:06:389 (1,2,3,4,1) - Can be better expressed through 1/2 sliders really. The 1/2 clicks on red ticks aren't necessary imo.
01:18:074 (3,2) - Visually, this pattern just looks really poor imo...
01:27:231 - Musical shift here. Instruments become softer and less frequent. You could reduce SV here or maybe remove kiai or something.
01:46:810 (2) - Such a fast slider. You could have reduced SV here xP

[]

Well, like I mentioned in chat. I think the kiai is just not a good design choice. The messy slider patterns and lack of consistent structure really cause the map to look kind of broken. I mean, compare the kiai to the intro where you use very solid structure too. This is too out there imo. The song doesn't require design elements like this. It's probably rankable, but it's not something I personally can support since the song itself is quite consistent and doesn't need chaotic slider patterns.

Good luck with this set anyways. I guess you can treat this as a free mod.
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and

Monstrata wrote:

Ultra

00:12:547 (1,3) - These shapes could be more relatable for better visual consistency. :arrow: not for visual consistency anyways...
00:32:758 (6,1) - Stacking isn't a good idea cuz of the downbeat losing emphasis xP. :arrow: stop on the vocal beat for the emphasis
00:47:126 (2,3,1,2,3) - These aren't following a layer in particular. You can click on each circle and its following something, but theyre all following some different instrument. Pick a rhythm and stick with it here, this is too ambiguous and its also rather dense for the section. :arrow: it is not too dense though....
00:49:337 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - Also sounds overmapped to me... why all the clicks? You could have integrated more 1/2 slider rhythms here. :arrow: the spacing and stacking make them not that hard, and i really think clicks are not really harder than sliders at this speed for this diff. Will change if more people have the same problem.
00:51:863 - Makes a lot more sense to transition to 1/2 clicking rhythm after this point,.
00:56:916 (1,2) - This is overmapped. Refer to how you do 00:58:179 (1) - 00:59:442 (1) - etc...
01:06:389 (1,2,3,4,1) - Can be better expressed through 1/2 sliders really. The 1/2 clicks on red ticks aren't necessary imo.
01:18:074 (3,2) - Visually, this pattern just looks really poor imo...
:arrow: well this has to do with my overall design, as I explained in irc, I will leave it for now because that is how i present the flow change.
01:27:231 - Musical shift here. Instruments become softer and less frequent. You could reduce SV here or maybe remove kiai or something. :arrow: if another person got the same problem, I will fix this
01:46:810 (2) - Such a fast slider. You could have reduced SV here xP

[]

Well, like I mentioned in chat. I think the kiai is just not a good design choice. The messy slider patterns and lack of consistent structure really cause the map to look kind of broken. I mean, compare the kiai to the intro where you use very solid structure too. This is too out there imo. The song doesn't require design elements like this. It's probably rankable, but it's not something I personally can support since the song itself is quite consistent and doesn't need chaotic slider patterns.

Good luck with this set anyways. I guess you can treat this as a free mod.
all sliders are designed well to my standard though... i guess i will remember that you do not like this type of diff...

ok we are going for plan B..... hope we could get this ranked soon....
Garden
为啥我感觉自己经常摊上很多很多diff的图 :(

General
  1. Wave hitsounds with possible delay > 5ms: normal-hitfinish.wav soft-hitnormal98.wav
    那个finish貌似蛮明显的和whistle一起加的时候(?
Kisses
  1. 00:50:284 (2) - a bit too much overlap with hp bar
  2. 01:47:442 (1,2) - etc. i feel rhythm here unintuitive for beginners to read, i suggest following the main melody like you did to 00:11:442 - section
F
  1. 00:15:863 (2) - 这个finish在尾巴上听上去有点怪,考虑换成1/2滑条+圈
  2. 00:58:810 (4) - 碰血条有点多可以放下来点
  3. 01:17:126 (1,2) - 这里节奏比较密,把2放1下面感觉读起来比较清楚
  4. 01:52:495 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - https://puu.sh/uPLXm/c067623f1f.png 有点难.. 主要跟重音简化一下吧?
Doormat
  1. od6 is fairly enough imo and hyper can then use sth between hard & insane
  2. 00:54:389 (1,5,6) - with current stack leniency the stack here looks bad visually https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7602997, maybe convert 56 into a slider so the pattern would look clean and the rhythm isnt simplified too much either
Hyper
  1. od6.5 for neat diffspread
  2. 00:41:442 (3) - 音效不同,把这个unstack了好像比较有感觉
  3. 01:13:810 (2,3) - 01:13:968 - 这里也不是很强,原地stack接这样的flow感觉不合适,我建议这部分大概这样整体调一下 -> https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7603051
  4. 01:22:495 (2) - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7603066 比较合你这段整体用于1,2的flow
  5. 01:27:863 (4,5) - 我觉得削一点间距比较好,圈圈跳其他地方也没放这么大的
Moecho
  1. 00:08:916 (1) - 这里感觉用个默认的softwhistle点一下效果会不错
  2. 00:16:179 (3) - burai目前还是unrankable的来着
  3. 00:18:705 (6,7,1) - 微调一下7,1位置让这边包得和 00:18:389 (4,5,6) - 视觉距离差不多? 个人认为这样这个梗看上去更有整体感(欸就是和 01:54:705 (2,3,1) - 一样,为什么复制段落这里是不一样的.. NC也不一样)
  4. 00:19:652 (4,5) - 我觉得可以调整下节奏突出这个音 -> 00:19:810 - 毕竟前面整体上都在跟主旋律,最后一段同
  5. 00:20:126 - 这里出kiai比较好? 和你最后一段一样
  6. 00:44:284 (1,2,1) - 滑条尾巴drum sample?
  7. 01:18:389 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - 为什么这里节奏处理得和kiai其他部分很不一样啊.. 忽然一堆圈儿
Another
  1. 01:08:284 (1) - 用01:07:021 (1) - ctrl-h的形状? 这里overlap我看着感觉不太舒服
  2. 01:52:021 (2) - 我觉得这个换圈比较好因为音效和 01:51:863 - 不一样,虽然打起来是基本没差
Lami
  1. 01:30:389 (5,6) - maybe decrease the spacing between them so 01:29:758 (1,2) - 01:30:074 (3,4) - 01:30:389 (5,6) - can have gradually decreasing spacing which fits the lowering vocal pitch
  2. 01:52:495 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - imo it should be 3 circles for each new combo setting according to hitsounding and music
Ultra
  1. 为啥od比extra低,难道已经给score v2滑条图做好准备了
  2. 00:15:547 (2) - 除非有摆梗这种连续两个1/2滑条表示一样的节奏希望弧度上有点consistency
  3. 00:18:389 (1,2,3,4,1) - 这五连好像有点缺少弧度,和前面那组比起来
  4. 00:24:389 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - 不 这不几何 可以调下前后stack的物件弄成比较整的三角,应该不是很麻烦
  5. 00:31:337 - softclap或者normal sample那种音效更合曲点
  6. 00:34:652 (3) - 虽然横过来最顺手但没地方放了.. 我觉得用前面3/4一样的弧度平行放比较美观
  7. 00:42:074 (3) - 这个也是,和 00:41:600 (1,4) - 一起看起来很不协调
  8. 00:49:021 (3) - ^
  9. 00:56:284 (1) - 这个用drum whistle好像效果更好,和后面几个不太一样
  10. 01:15:863 (3,4) - 这里节奏下的没有区分度,我觉得可以主要跟主旋律的这三个音 01:15:547 - 01:15:705 - 01:15:863 - ,用这个节奏-> https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7605291,就是要调整一下梗
  11. 01:22:179 (1,2) - 这种将就着要overlap的就摆摆清楚到底碰不碰.. 强迫症
  12. 01:27:705 - drumwhistle? 后面好像也有一些适合这个音效, clap有点显得太轻的地方
  13. 01:36:863 (1,2,3) - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7605325 从3直的下来还是直的感觉别手
  14. 01:43:179 (1,2) - nc倒过来? 我感觉不管跟vocal还是跳梗本身感觉都应该那样加啊
  15. 01:51:389 (1,2,3,4,5) - 这个弧度接前面的flow想打人.. 而且音乐本身这样导致这个五连出现得很突兀,如果能改得顺点就好啦
I personally can agree with the chaotic slider usage for kiai section in Ultra diff. It's consistent there, plays fine from my perspective and kinda give me a feeling of adventuring, somehow fits the theme imo. hey tho the background image doesnt seem to suggest so lo l
Flask
全fix啦

osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: optc.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 55889
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.9
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LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

[Editor]
Bookmarks: 74,11442,21547,31652,41758,51863,56916,67021,77126,87231,97337,107442
DistanceSpacing: 1.1
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 16
TimelineZoom: 2.500005

[Metadata]
Title:Catch the Moment -Radio Edit ver.-
TitleUnicode:Catch the Moment -Radio Edit ver.-
Artist:LiSA
ArtistUnicode:LiSA
Creator:Shad0w1and
Version:Flask's Advanced
Source:劇場版 ソードアート・オンライン -オーディナル・スケール-
Tags:SWORD ART ONLINE The Movie - Ordinal Scale - SAO Lami intoon Kawaiwkyik Rizia Moecho Moeri Doormat Flask Kisses
BeatmapID:1224768
BeatmapSetID:570938

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:4
CircleSize:3.6
OverallDifficulty:4
ApproachRate:5
SliderMultiplier:1
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
//Background and Video events
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//Break Periods
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//Storyboard Layer 1 (Fail)
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//Storyboard Layer 3 (Foreground)
//Storyboard Sound Samples

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Topic Starter
Shad0w1and

Garden wrote:

为啥我感觉自己经常摊上很多很多diff的图 :(

General
  1. Wave hitsounds with possible delay > 5ms: normal-hitfinish.wav soft-hitnormal98.wav
    那个finish貌似蛮明显的和whistle一起加的时候(?
    :arrow: the finish should be fine, it is osu default finish mixed with other, consider its usage i think osu has this delay with intenton
Hyper
  1. od6.5 for neat diffspread
  2. 00:41:442 (3) - 音效不同,把这个unstack了好像比较有感觉 :arrow: 感觉那样反而难打了,要不然全部拆开要不全部叠上我觉得才比较好打
  3. 01:13:810 (2,3) - 01:13:968 - 这里也不是很强,原地stack接这样的flow感觉不合适,我建议这部分大概这样整体调一下 -> https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7603051 :arrow: 这里主要是后面是一个全场高潮跳,要是没有一个build up的难度我感觉到时候太突兀,目前这样我觉得比较适合我作图的理念
  4. 01:22:495 (2) - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7603066 比较合你这段整体用于1,2的flow
  5. 01:27:863 (4,5) - 我觉得削一点间距比较好,圈圈跳其他地方也没放这么大的 :arrow: 1.6x降到1.4x感觉应该好多了
Another
  1. 01:08:284 (1) - 用01:07:021 (1) - ctrl-h的形状? 这里overlap我看着感觉不太舒服
  2. 01:52:021 (2) - 我觉得这个换圈比较好因为音效和 01:51:863 - 不一样,虽然打起来是基本没差 :arrow: 为了排版好看就保持了xc
Ultra
  1. 为啥od比extra低,难道已经给score v2滑条图做好准备了 :arrow: ultra我其实并不是为了PP做的...只是我自己喜欢搞高星自我满足,od这里主要是考虑到相比Extra,kiai高速滑条多了太多,加上spaced stream怀疑很多人会路人断,本来我想弄到8.5,考虑了test player的意见才改成了8.8,我觉得高od并不能带来打图体验的提升,od适合图风最好。之前od8.5 Beafowl都路人断在了滑条上,所以我怀疑这图难点就是要保证滑条不断给低od
  2. 00:15:547 (2) - 除非有摆梗这种连续两个1/2滑条表示一样的节奏希望弧度上有点consistency :arrow: 我感觉不知道是我审美畸形还是什么,我觉得consistency的滑条丑爆。。。所以你基本看不到我两个滑条一样的形状走向,除非刻意摆图形的时候。要是你一定要我改我可以改,但是我觉得那样真的更难看。。。
  3. 00:18:389 (1,2,3,4,1) - 这五连好像有点缺少弧度,和前面那组比起来 :arrow: 前面那一组的音是钢琴,后面是鼓点,而且也不用刻意追求一样吧xc,我的审美比较倾向于uneven的不规则流,不论是作图还是艺术
  4. 00:24:389 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - 不 这不几何 可以调下前后stack的物件弄成比较整的三角,应该不是很麻烦
  5. 00:31:337 - softclap或者normal sample那种音效更合曲点 :arrow: 这里怕音效给重了,所以目前这个不会很重的我挺喜欢
  6. 00:34:652 (3) - 虽然横过来最顺手但没地方放了.. 我觉得用前面3/4一样的弧度平行放比较美观 :arrow: 所以还是审美问题xc我觉得现在这样挺好,后面几个审美问题我也不太想改
  7. 00:42:074 (3) - 这个也是,和 00:41:600 (1,4) - 一起看起来很不协调
  8. 00:49:021 (3) - ^
  9. 00:56:284 (1) - 这个用drum whistle好像效果更好,和后面几个不太一样
  10. 01:15:863 (3,4) - 这里节奏下的没有区分度,我觉得可以主要跟主旋律的这三个音 01:15:547 - 01:15:705 - 01:15:863 - ,用这个节奏-> https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7605291,就是要调整一下梗 :arrow: 你觉得一定要改我觉得可以改,但是目前的梗我挺喜欢的,可以的话最好保留
  11. 01:22:179 (1,2) - 这种将就着要overlap的就摆摆清楚到底碰不碰.. 强迫症
  12. 01:27:705 - drumwhistle? 后面好像也有一些适合这个音效, clap有点显得太轻的地方 :arrow: 我仔细听了我所有音效,没有能适合这个音的。。因为仔细听这一段每个音都不一样,为了不犯错还是用安全一点的n clap算了
  13. 01:36:863 (1,2,3) - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7605325 从3直的下来还是直的感觉别手
  14. 01:43:179 (1,2) - nc倒过来? 我感觉不管跟vocal还是跳梗本身感觉都应该那样加啊
  15. 01:51:389 (1,2,3,4,5) - 这个弧度接前面的flow想打人.. 而且音乐本身这样导致这个五连出现得很突兀,如果能改得顺点就好啦 :arrow: 之前你irc说的时候我已经改了平了,那我再多改平一点
I personally can agree with the chaotic slider usage for kiai section in Ultra diff. It's consistent there, plays fine from my perspective and kinda give me a feeling of adventuring, somehow fits the theme imo. hey tho the background image doesnt seem to suggest so lo l
关于BG,因为现在有yuna的BG只有比基尼这一张,所以我觉得挺有必要的 8-)
Doormat
@Garden, i lowered OD to 6 and changed the (5,6) to a slider. thanks for the mod :3

https://drmt.s-ul.eu/hnwmkwQa
Lami
1 point : reduced
2 point : i think it followed other sound which i think more important, same with 00:16:495 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - .
and i copied hitsound from highest diff >_>

z
osu file format v14

[General]
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AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 55889
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.3
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LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

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DistanceSpacing: 1.5
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 8
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[Metadata]
Title:Catch the Moment -Radio Edit ver.-
TitleUnicode:Catch the Moment -Radio Edit ver.-
Artist:LiSA
ArtistUnicode:LiSA
Creator:Shad0w1and
Version:Lami's Extra
Source:劇場版 ソードアート・オンライン -オーディナル・スケール-
Tags:SWORD ART ONLINE The Movie - Ordinal Scale - SAO Lami intoon Kawaiwkyik Rizia Moecho Moeri Doormat Flask Kisses
BeatmapID:1232440
BeatmapSetID:570938

[Difficulty]
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_handholding
update
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Title:Catch the Moment -Radio Edit ver.-
TitleUnicode:Catch the Moment -Radio Edit ver.-
Artist:LiSA
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Creator:Shad0w1and
Version:Kisses' Novice
Source:劇場版 ソードアート・オンライン -オーディナル・スケール-
Tags:SWORD ART ONLINE The Movie - Ordinal Scale - SAO Lami intoon Kawaiwkyik Rizia Moecho Moeri Doormat Flask Kisses
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Fixed a couple of things from other ppl's mods

@garden overlap is ok imo, fixed rhythm
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and
Moecho
==============

Garden wrote:

为啥我感觉自己经常摊上很多很多diff的图 :(

General
  1. Wave hitsounds with possible delay > 5ms: normal-hitfinish.wav soft-hitnormal98.wav
    那个finish貌似蛮明显的和whistle一起加的时候(?
Moecho
  1. 00:08:916 (1) - 这里感觉用个默认的softwhistle点一下效果会不错 行的
  2. 00:16:179 (3) - burai目前还是unrankable的来着 你摸圖之前忘記更新了,這個已經改好,我忘記之前那個什麼樣子了... 感覺應該沒有做burai吧 總之不是故意的
  3. 00:18:705 (6,7,1) - 微调一下7,1位置让这边包得和 00:18:389 (4,5,6) - 视觉距离差不多? 个人认为这样这个梗看上去更有整体感(欸就是和 01:54:705 (2,3,1) - 一样,为什么复制段落这里是不一样的.. NC也不一样)後面的NC可能不小心點到了 謝謝,然後Blanket我實在不覺得有什麼問題,主要是你開了Stack之後就根本是動1px的節奏... 我調整了一下4的位置,包了5的尾巴
  4. 00:19:652 (4,5) - 我觉得可以调整下节奏突出这个音 -> 00:19:810 - 毕竟前面整体上都在跟主旋律,最后一段同 有點難修改,這裡不好分了 之前想好的現在修改很難,interesting不過目前應該不會改了
  5. 00:20:126 - 这里出kiai比较好? 和你最后一段一样 我後面這段也之前改了一下 沒更新,不是很懂你現在說的,不過修改了一下,現在應該效果蠻好的了
  6. 00:44:284 (1,2,1) - 滑条尾巴drum sample? 好的
  7. 01:18:389 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - 为什么这里节奏处理得和kiai其他部分很不一样啊.. 忽然一堆圈儿 歌裡面就是這樣子compose的節奏,仔細聽bass
HS是从Caramel Heaven拿的,根据测试,你砍掉波峰后面那一块对音效没影响,但是砍掉前面那一块反而音效没对了,应该是波峰没有反应实际听觉。。。这个音效没有delay,1ms也没有
jonathanlfj
[Kisses' Novice]
00:08:916 (1) - whistle?
00:50:284 (2) - this significantly overlaps the hp bar, you should lower it
01:52:495 (1) - this should end at 01:52:968 based on where the drums land

[Flask's Advanced]
00:24:074 (1) - the end of this slider overlaps the progress bar and score display, consider lowering it a bit
00:30:074 (1) - a bit Nazi but this is not symmetrical; you can build it on the y-axis then just rotate it slightly clockwise
00:56:284 (1) - feels more impactful as a 1/2 repeat slider imo
01:07:021 (4) - NC here instead of 01:07:337 (1); refer to 01:09:547 (1)
01:29:126 (4) - generally overlaps that cover more than half of the hitcircle is discouraged in a lower difficulty like this, you should adjust it so it overlaps similar to 00:21:547 (1)
01:42:389 (1,2) - should try to follow vocals here which is a much more dominant layer: https://puu.sh/uSs7a.jpg
01:53:442 (3) - the sequence of 1/2 is quite long here so you can separate it by making this a circle

[Doormat's Hard]
00:40:337 (1) - a more natural flow for this is to stack it on top of 00:39:863 (3), but the patterns after are gonna have to be adjusted to up to you
otherwise a very consistent map, nothing much to say

[Hyper]
00:18:389 (1) - remove NC, don't see why its needed here
00:19:495 (1) - ^
01:14:600 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - what a difficulty spike for a Hyper, consider toning down the jumps a bit
01:17:758 (3,4,5) - not stacked properly
01:51:389 (1) - instead of multiple repeats, having a triplet + single repeat slider works better here to complement the piano layer at the beginning

[Moecho's Insane]
hitsound in the beginning is too loud, something under 50% would be nicer
00:50:284 (1) - I understand you want to keep the visual symmetry here, but having a strong beat land on a slider end is really affecting the quality of gameplay here. You can consider a 3/4 slider followed by a circle at 00:50:916
01:27:705 (3) - again, a better approach here is to remove the repeat and have a circle for 01:27:863 since a strong vocal sound lands there
01:38:442 (3) - based on how you mapped out this section this should be a 1/4 slider as well
01:43:416 (1) - soft sample
01:55:652 (4) - should be two separate 1/4 sliders so the guitar at 01:55:802 is covered by a click action

[Another]
00:18:231 (4) - if you curve this a bit to the left it will flow more naturally on the stacked stream
00:41:126 (1,1,1) - quite difficult to read given the overall difficulty of this map, you should follow distance snap more proportionally here as I got confused the first time trying this. Also silencing the slider ends (including 00:42:863 (1)) would help a lot
01:31:337 (3,4,5,6) - this part flowed a bit weird, a more natural movement would have 01:31:652 (4) somewhere like the start of 01:32:284 (1)

[Lami's Extra]
00:16:021 (4,5,6) - I expect some sort of movement here due to the way the piano just goes phewwww, perhaps you can unstack it and create some form of linear flow
00:56:600 (5) - tbh a faster SV here will work wonders as it contrasts nicely with the compressed stream before
01:49:021 (3,5) - a blanket here would be nice

[Ultra]
how did I pass this on a sight read lmao
00:19:337 (3,4,5) - angle is a bit weird to play, having the circles a bit to the right feels better
00:31:179 (1,1,1) - I don't see the need for NC spam here, there are no SV changes and no other patterns are like this
00:40:179 (3) - this is a very minor beat, so based on the way spacing works to convey intensity, should be stacked under 00:40:179 (3)
00:56:916 (1) - now the kiai is fine with the 1/4 sliders on my end, but they only work well if you silence the slider ends (e.g. 20% volume) so the audio feedback is accurate to the music. May take some work but I can guarantee it will make the map much more fitting to the song
01:56:891 (1,2,3,1) - the straight line is nice, but I expected a larger spacing here considering it being the finale of the map

ok pm me after you fix stuff I guess
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and

jonathanlfj wrote:

[Hyper]
00:18:389 (1) - remove NC, don't see why its needed here :arrow: 00:18:705 - deleted the NC on 00:18:705 - instead
00:19:495 (1) - ^
01:14:600 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - what a difficulty spike for a Hyper, consider toning down the jumps a bit :arrow: Hyper to me is light insane, Another is light extra xc... I think it should be acceptable xc, I got Hard anyways xc
01:17:758 (3,4,5) - not stacked properly
01:51:389 (1) - instead of multiple repeats, having a triplet + single repeat slider works better here to complement the piano layer at the beginning :arrow: I feel it is a over kill for this diff(or maybe just I am too weak tho xc)

[Another]
00:18:231 (4) - if you curve this a bit to the left it will flow more naturally on the stacked stream :arrow: I actually think curve to the left will break the flow from previous pattern, so I instead changed the angle of 00:18:389 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3) - to make them catch the flow better
00:41:126 (1,1,1) - quite difficult to read given the overall difficulty of this map, you should follow distance snap more proportionally here as I got confused the first time trying this. Also silencing the slider ends (including 00:42:863 (1)) would help a lot :arrow: did not change the slider ends tho, because I think the crash is strong enough to overwrite the feedback from the slider tail(I do not like to silent slider end anyways unless I have to)
01:31:337 (3,4,5,6) - this part flowed a bit weird, a more natural movement would have 01:31:652 (4) somewhere like the start of 01:32:284 (1)

[Ultra]
how did I pass this on a sight read lmao
00:19:337 (3,4,5) - angle is a bit weird to play, having the circles a bit to the right feels better :arrow: due to the track switch (guitar-drum), I would like to keep the current flow cut idea, I think this should give a flow hint to the player
00:31:179 (1,1,1) - I don't see the need for NC spam here, there are no SV changes and no other patterns are like this
00:40:179 (3) - this is a very minor beat, so based on the way spacing works to convey intensity, should be stacked under 00:40:179 (3) :arrow: I would like to be consistent because in my previous patterns, I highlighted vocal beat, regardless of the drum intensity(stop is another type of emphasis as well), 00:38:442 (3) - 00:39:074 (6) -
00:56:916 (1) - now the kiai is fine with the 1/4 sliders on my end, but they only work well if you silence the slider ends (e.g. 20% volume) so the audio feedback is accurate to the music. May take some work but I can guarantee it will make the map much more fitting to the song :arrow: I am unsure about this, because I placed additions on every slider head for additional feedback, the default soft-hitnormal should not be much distracting at this volume. I played this diff with HT and the default volume does not distract me :? I think it should be fine tho xc
01:56:891 (1,2,3,1) - the straight line is nice, but I expected a larger spacing here considering it being the finale of the map

ok pm me after you fix stuff I guess
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and

jonathanlfj wrote:

[Flask's Advanced]
00:24:074 (1) - the end of this slider overlaps the progress bar and score display, consider lowering it a bit
00:30:074 (1) - a bit Nazi but this is not symmetrical; you can build it on the y-axis then just rotate it slightly clockwise
00:56:284 (1) - feels more impactful as a 1/2 repeat slider imo :arrow: I personally prefer the current so it treat the red beat and blue beats the same
01:07:021 (4) - NC here instead of 01:07:337 (1); refer to 01:09:547 (1)
01:29:126 (4) - generally overlaps that cover more than half of the hitcircle is discouraged in a lower difficulty like this, you should adjust it so it overlaps similar to 00:21:547 (1)
01:42:389 (1,2) - should try to follow vocals here which is a much more dominant layer: https://puu.sh/uSs7a.jpg
01:53:442 (3) - the sequence of 1/2 is quite long here so you can separate it by making this a circle :arrow: current is ok I think, leave that beat empty makes me sick xccccc
fixed flask's diff for him as he requested.
Doormat
@lfj i stacked 00:40:337 (1) - on top of 00:39:863 (3) - like you suggested, and adjusted the following patterns. thanks for the mod!

https://drmt.s-ul.eu/pM1uWjnB
Lami
fixed all, ty mod
z
osu file format v14

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AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 55889
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.3
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LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

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[Metadata]
Title:Catch the Moment -Radio Edit ver.-
TitleUnicode:Catch the Moment -Radio Edit ver.-
Artist:LiSA
ArtistUnicode:LiSA
Creator:Shad0w1and
Version:Lami's Extra
Source:劇場版 ソードアート・オンライン -オーディナル・スケール-
Tags:SWORD ART ONLINE The Movie - Ordinal Scale - SAO Lami intoon Kawaiwkyik Rizia Moecho Moeri Doormat Flask Kisses
BeatmapID:1232440
BeatmapSetID:570938

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Kyouren
Metadata? Because i can't found a correct site :c
and maybe you can remove "-" from tags :>
Doormat

KittyAdventure wrote:

Metadata? Because i can't found a correct site :c
and maybe you can remove "-" from tags :>
you gotta learn to search more indepth :p

劇場版 ソードアート・オンライン -オーディナル・スケール- from http://sao-movie.net/sp/music/
_handholding

jonathanlfj wrote:

[Kisses' Novice]
00:08:916 (1) - whistle?
00:50:284 (2) - this significantly overlaps the hp bar, you should lower it
01:52:495 (1) - this should end at 01:52:968 based on where the drums land At first I was following the drum beat for the whole section but Garden told me to change it since a lot of 3/2 gaps are intuitive so he told me to change it to the same rhythm as the first part of the song. I think it'd be a bit stupid to follow this specific drum beat when i've omitted a lot already from the section and it wil break away from the current rhythm used
fixed other 2!
update
osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: optc.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 55889
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.9
Mode: 0
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

[Editor]
Bookmarks: 74,11442,21547,31652,41600,51863,56916,77126,87231,97337,107442
DistanceSpacing: 1
BeatDivisor: 1
GridSize: 32
TimelineZoom: 1.900006

[Metadata]
Title:Catch the Moment -Radio Edit ver.-
TitleUnicode:Catch the Moment -Radio Edit ver.-
Artist:LiSA
ArtistUnicode:LiSA
Creator:Shad0w1and
Version:Kisses' Novice
Source:劇場版 ソードアート・オンライン -オーディナル・スケール-
Tags:SWORD ART ONLINE The Movie - Ordinal Scale - SAO Lami intoon Kawaiwkyik Rizia Moecho Moeri Doormat Flask Kisses
BeatmapID:1227487
BeatmapSetID:570938

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:3
CircleSize:3
OverallDifficulty:3
ApproachRate:3
SliderMultiplier:0.9
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
//Background and Video events
0,0,"BG2.jpg",0,0
//Break Periods
//Storyboard Layer 0 (Background)
//Storyboard Layer 1 (Fail)
//Storyboard Layer 2 (Pass)
//Storyboard Layer 3 (Foreground)
//Storyboard Sound Samples

[TimingPoints]
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116102,315.789473684211,4,2,1,60,1,1
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Combo2 : 221,60,55
Combo3 : 95,158,222

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265,175,74600,6,0,P|243:241|272:313,2,135,4|0|0,0:0|0:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
219,97,75863,2,0,L|129:89,1,90,0|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
67,155,76495,1,2,1:2:0:0:
63,244,76810,1,2,1:2:0:0:
117,315,77126,6,0,B|170:306|170:306|242:332|242:332|292:327,1,180,4|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
372,366,78074,1,0,1:0:0:0:
436,303,78389,2,0,P|471:227|432:131,1,180,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
381,72,79337,1,0,1:0:0:0:
309,125,79652,6,0,B|244:150|244:150|124:129,1,180,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
67,70,80600,1,0,1:0:0:0:
5,135,80916,2,0,L|13:246,1,90,2|0,0:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
100,235,81547,2,0,L|90:345,1,90,2|0,0:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
174,362,82179,6,0,B|198:304|198:304|180:175,1,180,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
117,125,83126,1,0,1:0:0:0:
169,51,83442,2,0,P|246:9|341:34,1,180,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
391,95,84389,1,0,1:0:0:0:
334,164,84705,6,0,B|327:216|327:216|346:290|346:290|336:354,1,180,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
255,376,85652,1,0,1:0:0:0:
201,303,85968,2,0,L|51:310,2,135,4|2|2,2:0|1:2|1:2,0:0:0:0:
268,243,87231,6,0,P|314:169|267:80,1,180,4|0,3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
201,45,88179,2,0,B|147:54|147:54|80:40|80:40|25:51,2,180,4|4|0,1:2|0:3|1:0,0:0:0:0:
280,89,89758,6,0,L|273:186,2,90,4|0|0,0:3|0:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
350,33,90705,2,0,P|448:21|497:88,1,180,4|0,0:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
453,157,91652,1,0,0:0:0:0:
465,246,91968,1,0,1:0:0:0:
416,321,92284,6,0,B|361:315|361:315|292:337|292:337|234:331,1,180,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
169,275,93231,1,0,1:0:0:0:
86,310,93547,2,0,P|49:242|90:145,1,180,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
67,62,94495,1,0,1:0:0:0:
145,17,94810,6,0,L|290:8,2,135,2|2|2,0:0|1:2|1:2,0:0:0:0:
67,62,96074,1,0,1:0:0:0:
112,139,96389,1,2,0:0:0:0:
43,197,96705,2,0,L|50:307,1,90,0|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
107,355,97337,6,0,L|253:340,2,135,4|0|0,0:0|1:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
133,268,98600,2,0,L|-11:251,2,135,4|0|0,0:0|1:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
187,196,99863,6,0,P|220:259|203:323,2,135,4|0|0,0:0|1:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
141,118,101126,2,0,L|284:104,1,135,4|0,0:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
377,34,102074,1,0,1:0:0:0:
441,95,102389,6,0,B|448:137|448:137|435:188|435:188|441:239,2,135,8|4|4,0:3|0:3|1:2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,103495,12,0,106179,0:0:0:0:
172,335,107442,6,0,L|164:245,1,90,4|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
202,163,108074,2,0,P|136:159|84:204,2,135,2|2|2,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
267,224,109337,1,0,1:0:0:0:
298,140,109652,1,0,1:0:0:0:
362,203,109968,6,0,L|513:194,2,135,0|4|0,1:0|0:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
298,140,111231,2,0,P|241:131|188:160,1,90,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
205,52,111863,2,0,P|162:65|131:97,1,90,2|0,0:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
75,168,112495,6,0,B|59:281|59:281|100:351,1,180,6|0,1:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
176,369,113442,1,0,1:0:0:0:
235,301,113758,2,0,L|223:156,2,135,2|2|0,0:0|0:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
305,356,115021,6,0,P|382:312|378:209,1,180,4|4,0:3|0:3,0:0:0:0:
357,109,116102,2,0,B|194:93|194:93|243:43,1,225,4|8,1:2|0:3,0:0:0:0:
123,5,117365,5,4,1:2:0:0:
256,192,117523,12,2,120049,0:0:0:0:
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and
Moecho

jonathanlfj wrote:

[Moecho's Insane]
hitsound in the beginning is too loud, something under 50% would be nicer Alright, 60%->50%
00:50:284 (1) - I understand you want to keep the visual symmetry here, but having a strong beat land on a slider end is really affecting the quality of gameplay here. You can consider a 3/4 slider followed by a circle at 00:50:916 I don't feel like it is affecting much, no change
01:27:705 (3) - again, a better approach here is to remove the repeat and have a circle for 01:27:863 since a strong vocal sound lands there Also I think it's fine here too, changing would be hard to adjust placement
01:38:442 (3) - based on how you mapped out this section this should be a 1/4 slider as well Nope, listen carefully to when it's slider and when it's not slider, it's a huge difference
01:43:416 (1) - soft sample OK ouo
01:55:652 (4) - should be two separate 1/4 sliders so the guitar at 01:55:802 is covered by a click action Did a major change to that, replaced with circles, since adding kickslider to make it both clickable AND for the aesthetics would be hard without a proper space, which in this case is very crowded. As well as I want to keep the SR at 4.60
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and
[Some Discussion about the set]
  1. In Novice, spinner end at 02:00:049 - to make it easier for new player, although it is not 100% accurately snapped,
    we believe it is good enough for this diff.
  2. The two HS normal-hitfinish.wav soft-hitnormal98.wav does not really have a delay, its sound peak does not matter. Because if we cut their peak it is still audible.
  3. This mp3 is the official radio cut ver, so the file was cut officially without the concern of bpm section and got a error at the end,
    I have to add two red lines to fix the timing.
  4. For Another diff I did 80% of the work, so I would not call this diff as a collab or smt similar.
  5. For metadata, this is the offical radio edit ver. metadata:
jonathanlfj
The 1/4s sounded messy mostly because I was modding with speakers (forgot my headphones at home and I'm out traveling for work), perhaps they are more acceptable with headphones...

I will take your word for the hitsounds as I've seen similar things in the past (refer to Charles445's discussion about where the attack of a hitsound is introduced)
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and
thanks for helping me even when you so busy on your work xc.
Garden
qualified
Karen
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/576112 ??? 什么时候不同mode可以同时q了,话说居然两种metadata
sahuang
悲剧了,好奇一下假如那张图meta不对的话优先度是什么,先dq这个再dq那个还是只dq那张啊
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and
那張是自行cut的,我這個是官方的cut。他們少了10秒。我問過兩個mode可以同時qua。
Battle
None of the albums on LiSA's site have -Radio Edit ver.- on any of the Catch the Moment songs so I'm curious where you found the radio edit ver. part of the song
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and
official digital file distributor recochoku, the meta copied from the file.
refer to p/5891962
btw I bought the file before the full ver release, so it is clearly official source, kwan proved that.
Maxus
weee another one xd
Congrats for the qualify! dat bg.. wanna big fav huh? :p
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and

Maxus wrote:

weee another one xd
Congrats for the qualify! dat bg.. wanna big fav huh? :p
;^) Thank you and why not.
Also thanks to everyone who helped <3
Pho
Hi there Shad0w1and o/ Before seeing this map being pushed through the ranked section, I have some quality concerns about the highest difficulty of this set:

[Ultra]
  1. The map seems like it tries to be special in certain ways, but many parts ended up being either overdone or not well-thought out for the song:
  2. 00:00:074 - to 00:08:916 - Starting right at the beginning, the 1/2 singletaps are too much compared to what is actually offered in the song at this point, about 50% of the taps land on weak, barely-emphasized snare sounds (red ticks).
    Keep in mind that the tempo of the song is already pretty high, 1/2 sliders would be more fitting to the intensity of the song for the intro. What really annoys me however are the triples (00:01:179 (8,9,1) - , 00:02:442 (8,9,1) - etc.) at the beginning that are way too overspaced. It'd be less forced to play if you just stack them instead.
  3. Extended sliders (3/4 sliders) are overused / inproperly used in this map. It is fine to a certain extent to give notion to strong or special notes in the track, using too many of them usually results in maps with wonky rhythms that are most of the time unnatural and forced to play:
    1. 00:11:126 (1) - Doesn't emphasize anything specific in the song and thus should be cropped to 1/2. Similar occasions where this happens:
      00:18:705 (1) - 00:21:547 (1) - 00:22:810 (1) - 00:23:442 (4) - 00:24:074 (1) - 00:38:600 (4) - 01:37:968 (1) - etc.
      00:26:600 (1) - The whole slider pattern here at 00:25:968 (1,2,1) - feels weird as well since you weren't focussing on vocals after 00:21:547 - . Make clear what exactly you follow with your rhythm here.
      00:46:179 (1,2,1) - It seemingly follows the vocals, but 00:44:284 (1,1,1) - previous sliders clearly follow the e-guitar, which makes rhythm pretty confusing here. Ending 00:46:179 (1) - on 00:46:652 - instead would make it clearer.
    2. 00:12:547 (1,2) - Feels too forced and would be better if you swap these with only a slider instead. Same goes to:
      00:34:179 (1,2) - 00:46:810 (1,2) -
  4. 00:31:179 (1,2,3) - This feels pretty forced if it's just for the sake of the vocals since those aren't that strong to warrant buzz sliderjumps.
  5. 00:41:600 - There's a lack of differentiation towards the previous section of the music. Song gets less intense, but you're still spacing /positioning objects high, the same way as before.
  6. 00:51:863 - Pretty sad about this since a build-up would've been nice here. Jumping right into a vertical jumps section isn't the greatest idea, ramping up spacing slowly would've been more fitting to the song. In general, try to balance out the difficulty according to different sections of a song.
  7. 00:56:916 (1,2) - Two major problems I see with the kiai time here:
    1. 1. Overdoing sliders. Now I get that sliders are funnier and entertaining to play, but if it doesn't correlate with the song there's no sense in doing so. The 1/4 sliders in particular for the kiai, with 01:15:547 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - being a prime example of overdoing patterns. There are others following like 01:27:547 (1,2,1,2) -
    2. 2. Repetition. There's no place for rhythm variation here since you decided to make a big slidertrain here, which doesn't reflect the song well at all. It's seven times the same rhythm in a row starting from 00:58:179 - (8 times actually, 00:56:916 (1,2) - should be a single slider only if i were to follow your current logic), which is pretty bland, don't you think?
  8. 01:51:389 (1,2,3,4,5) - Doesn't follow anything properly and the spacing on the ministream feels really huge.
Sorry if I sound blunt, but this map doesn't look well executed to me at all. Many concepts you used in this map lack proper application which I explained above, and this seems to need more work before being ranked imo. Other peoples opinion's matter ofc, so it might be good to ask around. Anyways, good luck with the set o/
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and

Pho wrote:

Hi there Shad0w1and o/ Before seeing this map being pushed through the ranked section, I have some quality concerns about the highest difficulty of this set:

[Ultra]
  1. The map seems like it tries to be special in certain ways, but many parts ended up being either overdone or not well-thought out for the song: :arrow: I do not think so, and I am not trying to be special on mapping, in this map I was trying to present the strong vocal and instruments with various slider shapes. I was also using these sliders to control the flow of the diff, so most point on your mod are already invalid.
  2. 00:00:074 - to 00:08:916 - Starting right at the beginning, the 1/2 singletaps are too much compared to what is actually offered in the song at this point, about 50% of the taps land on weak, barely-emphasized snare sounds (red ticks).
    Keep in mind that the tempo of the song is already pretty high, 1/2 sliders would be more fitting to the intensity of the song for the intro. What really annoys me however are the triples (00:01:179 (8,9,1) - , 00:02:442 (8,9,1) - etc.) at the beginning that are way too overspaced. It'd be less forced to play if you just stack them instead.
    :arrow: It is not over spaced compare to the latter section. In fact, with out HT, this part is the only part I could play and FC. This diff was designed as an Ultra since beginnning, it is expected to be much harder compare to Lami's Extra
  3. Extended sliders (3/4 sliders) are overused / inproperly used in this map. It is fine to a certain extent to give notion to strong or special notes in the track, using too many of them usually results in maps with wonky rhythms that are most of the time unnatural and forced to play:
    1. 00:11:126 (1) - Doesn't emphasize anything specific in the song and thus should be cropped to 1/2. Similar occasions where this happens:
      00:18:705 (1) - 00:21:547 (1) - 00:22:810 (1) - 00:23:442 (4) - 00:24:074 (1) - 00:38:600 (4) - 01:37:968 (1) - etc.
      00:26:600 (1) - The whole slider pattern here at 00:25:968 (1,2,1) - feels weird as well since you weren't focussing on vocals after 00:21:547 - . Make clear what exactly you follow with your rhythm here.
      00:46:179 (1,2,1) - It seemingly follows the vocals, but 00:44:284 (1,1,1) - previous sliders clearly follow the e-guitar, which makes rhythm pretty confusing here. Ending 00:46:179 (1) - on 00:46:652 - instead would make it clearer.
    2. 00:12:547 (1,2) - Feels too forced and would be better if you swap these with only a slider instead. Same goes to:
      00:34:179 (1,2) - 00:46:810 (1,2) -
    :arrow: This point is not valid as I explained at the beginning, you fail to understand my idea for this diff, it is not for people to single tap on these drum beats at the kiai, although I know that will be easier, however, when I design this diff I was trying to keep the constant flow and motion pressure on the player, because the song has a very strong background music, and vocal, by only give 1/2 single tap I think it will be way too mindless to follow the drum beats, which I did in my lower diffs. Yes, when I map a song for 3 times, I will not try to use exactly the same rhythm choice for Hyper/Another/Ultra. Also, because I added strong HS additions on the slider heads, the HS in the tail is not a problem according to the test plays and my self tests with HT
  4. 00:31:179 (1,2,3) - This feels pretty forced if it's just for the sake of the vocals since those aren't that strong to warrant buzz sliderjumps. :arrow: Either way worked, I do not think current got any problems
  5. 00:41:600 - There's a lack of differentiation towards the previous section of the music. Song gets less intense, but you're still spacing /positioning objects high, the same way as before. :arrow: uhmmmm... I can't agree to you.... as I placed the green lines before I started mapping.... Ipersonally feel these two sections got the same intensity....
  6. 00:51:863 - Pretty sad about this since a build-up would've been nice here. Jumping right into a vertical jumps section isn't the greatest idea, ramping up spacing slowly would've been more fitting to the song. In general, try to balance out the difficulty according to different sections of a song. :arrow: again I think either way worked tho xc.... the build up was like since the beginning tho... this whole diff was kinda jumpy, so I think current patterns fit the theme tho .....
  7. 00:56:916 (1,2) - Two major problems I see with the kiai time here:
    1. 1. Overdoing sliders. Now I get that sliders are funnier and entertaining to play, but if it doesn't correlate with the song there's no sense in doing so. The 1/4 sliders in particular for the kiai, with 01:15:547 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - being a prime example of overdoing patterns. There are others following like 01:27:547 (1,2,1,2) -
    2. 2. Repetition. There's no place for rhythm variation here since you decided to make a big slidertrain here, which doesn't reflect the song well at all. It's seven times the same rhythm in a row starting from 00:58:179 - (8 times actually, 00:56:916 (1,2) - should be a single slider only if i were to follow your current logic), which is pretty bland, don't you think?
    :arrow: to me for this song, sadly there is no clear way I could make a diverse rhythm choice. I was very sad about it when I mapped to this part, because the main rhythm itself was not the diverse, as you can see in all of my diffs the kiai was using the repetitive rhythm, I tested very hard and the slider shape thing come to my mind, I spend more than 10 hours to just shape these sliders to make them look good to my aesthetics, also I try to shaped sliders to control the flow so targeted players will be able to catch my"train" as you said.
  8. 01:51:389 (1,2,3,4,5) - Doesn't follow anything properly and the spacing on the ministream feels really huge. :arrow: this one is a commonly used technic to use the stream to overwrite the piano sweeps, because make it a hold for buzz slider will be too easy for this diff and for its strong sound, but do smt like ctb snap it to 1/12 will also be a over kill, therefore current solution is the best for me.
Sorry if I sound blunt, but this map doesn't look well executed to me at all. Many concepts you used in this map lack proper application which I explained above, and this seems to need more work before being ranked imo. Other peoples opinion's matter ofc, so it might be good to ask around. Anyways, good luck with the set o/
I know it is not a creative map to many people's standard, however, my idea was very clear, also I did many test plays and according to the test player they could catch my flow with these "werid" sliders, and that is why I believe this map should be able to get ranked. aesthetics is a very weird term, because I truly believe I made a great flow with sliders, many player agree to me. however, some mappers disagree to my because in the editor it does not look that pretty. My response is: the map is for play, for me it is pretty.
Pho

Shad0w1and wrote:

Pho wrote:

Hi there Shad0w1and o/ Before seeing this map being pushed through the ranked section, I have some quality concerns about the highest difficulty of this set:

[Ultra]
  1. The map seems like it tries to be special in certain ways, but many parts ended up being either overdone or not well-thought out for the song: :arrow: I do not think so, and I am not trying to be special on mapping, in this map I was trying to present the strong vocal and instruments with various slider shapes. I was also using these sliders to control the flow of the diff, so most point on your mod are already invalid.

    Just saying it now since you always raise that point again in your reply: I have no complaints about your aesthetics and slidershapes at all, this one's somewhat subjective anyway. The actual issue is in how you use extended sliders in this map in general. A map flowing and playing well doesn't mean a thing if your rhythm placement doesn't work out with the song. I explained it further below.

  2. 00:00:074 - to 00:08:916 - Starting right at the beginning, the 1/2 singletaps are too much compared to what is actually offered in the song at this point, about 50% of the taps land on weak, barely-emphasized snare sounds (red ticks).
    Keep in mind that the tempo of the song is already pretty high, 1/2 sliders would be more fitting to the intensity of the song for the intro. What really annoys me however are the triples (00:01:179 (8,9,1) - , 00:02:442 (8,9,1) - etc.) at the beginning that are way too overspaced. It'd be less forced to play if you just stack them instead.
    :arrow: It is not over spaced compare to the latter section. In fact, with out HT, this part is the only part I could play and FC. This diff was designed as an Ultra since beginnning, it is expected to be much harder compare to Lami's Extra

    The issue here is that this part is too motion-intense compared to how quiet this part of the song is. While the singletaps are acceptable for an Extra since you also spaced them fairly low and with DS, the spaced triples are questionable since they add too much tempo in this section and should be stacked or at least lower-spaced to fit the quietness in the intro. Also try not to use Ultra as a high-end difficulty as an excuse to make harder patterns, it's not a valid one and I am more concerned about how your patterns reflect the song than how difficult it is actually to play.
  3. Extended sliders (3/4 sliders) are overused / inproperly used in this map. It is fine to a certain extent to give notion to strong or special notes in the track, using too many of them usually results in maps with wonky rhythms that are most of the time unnatural and forced to play:
    1. 00:11:126 (1) - Doesn't emphasize anything specific in the song and thus should be cropped to 1/2. Similar occasions where this happens:
      00:18:705 (1) - 00:21:547 (1) - 00:22:810 (1) - 00:23:442 (4) - 00:24:074 (1) - 00:38:600 (4) - 01:37:968 (1) - etc.
      00:26:600 (1) - The whole slider pattern here at 00:25:968 (1,2,1) - feels weird as well since you weren't focussing on vocals after 00:21:547 - . Make clear what exactly you follow with your rhythm here.
      00:46:179 (1,2,1) - It seemingly follows the vocals, but 00:44:284 (1,1,1) - previous sliders clearly follow the e-guitar, which makes rhythm pretty confusing here. Ending 00:46:179 (1) - on 00:46:652 - instead would make it clearer.
    2. 00:12:547 (1,2) - Feels too forced and would be better if you swap these with only a slider instead. Same goes to:
      00:34:179 (1,2) - 00:46:810 (1,2) -
    :arrow: This point is not valid as I explained at the beginning, you fail to understand my idea for this diff, it is not for people to single tap on these drum beats at the kiai, although I know that will be easier, however, when I design this diff I was trying to keep the constant flow and motion pressure on the player, because the song has a very strong background music, and vocal, by only give 1/2 single tap I think it will be way too mindless to follow the drum beats, which I did in my lower diffs. Yes, when I map a song for 3 times, I will not try to use exactly the same rhythm choice for Hyper/Another/Ultra. Also, because I added strong HS additions on the slider heads, the HS in the tail is not a problem according to the test plays and my self tests with HT

    Constant flow and motion pressure only makes sense if the song had about the same intensity throughout it's whole length. And this song certainly is not constant, it has ups and downs. The problem lies in how you utilize extended and buzzsliders for Ultra.

    Maybe I was too inprecise, so here's a concrete example:
    00:56:916 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - If I were to compare the kiais of Ultra to the ones in your Insane difficulty, the latter are actually fine because it is clear what exactly you want to focus on with the extended sliders - the vocals, since that is also what is the most noticeable layer in this section. Then in Ultra, you decided to make motion-heavy extended slider/ 1/4 sliderjumps with focus on the instruments/e-guitar in the background - which are considerably weaker than the vocal. And you did this for around 50% of the map. This is what I mean when I said some of those patterns are overdone, the background music isn't that intense to make such motion-heavy patterns.

    And I already mentioned one of these above at 01:15:547 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - , which should be revised again, because focus lies on drums from 01:14:600 - to 01:17:126 - and should be emphasized with circleclicks, so I'm irritated why you suddenly decided to put in 1/4 sliders after 01:15:547 - (starting those at 01:15:863 - makes more sense tbh). Singletapping to drums here might sound like it's a generic thing to do here mapping-wise, and yea it actually is. But it makes more sense in relation to the music instead of putting 1/4 sliders in places where they don't fit.

  4. 00:31:179 (1,2,3) - This feels pretty forced if it's just for the sake of the vocals since those aren't that strong to warrant buzz sliderjumps. :arrow: Either way worked, I do not think current got any problems
  5. 00:41:600 - There's a lack of differentiation towards the previous section of the music. Song gets less intense, but you're still spacing /positioning objects high, the same way as before. :arrow: uhmmmm... I can't agree to you.... as I placed the green lines before I started mapping.... Ipersonally feel these two sections got the same intensity....

    It's pretty noticeable if you compare the note density of the background instruments of this part to the previous part.
  6. 00:51:863 - Pretty sad about this since a build-up would've been nice here. Jumping right into a vertical jumps section isn't the greatest idea, ramping up spacing slowly would've been more fitting to the song. In general, try to balance out the difficulty according to different sections of a song. :arrow: again I think either way worked tho xc.... the build up was like since the beginning tho... this whole diff was kinda jumpy, so I think current patterns fit the theme tho .....

    I mean for 00:51:863 - to 00:55:652 - specifically, since vocals raise up 00:51:863 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - here so you could ramp up the spacing for this pattern.
  7. 00:56:916 (1,2) - Two major problems I see with the kiai time here:
    1. 1. Overdoing sliders. Now I get that sliders are funnier and entertaining to play, but if it doesn't correlate with the song there's no sense in doing so. The 1/4 sliders in particular for the kiai, with 01:15:547 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - being a prime example of overdoing patterns. There are others following like 01:27:547 (1,2,1,2) -
    2. 2. Repetition. There's no place for rhythm variation here since you decided to make a big slidertrain here, which doesn't reflect the song well at all. It's seven times the same rhythm in a row starting from 00:58:179 - (8 times actually, 00:56:916 (1,2) - should be a single slider only if i were to follow your current logic), which is pretty bland, don't you think?
    :arrow: to me for this song, sadly there is no clear way I could make a diverse rhythm choice. I was very sad about it when I mapped to this part, because the main rhythm itself was not the diverse, as you can see in all of my diffs the kiai was using the repetitive rhythm, I tested very hard and the slider shape thing come to my mind, I spend more than 10 hours to just shape these sliders to make them look good to my aesthetics, also I try to shaped sliders to control the flow so targeted players will be able to catch my"train" as you said.

    I suppose the point about repetition isn't that much of an issue, and yes you did the same in the lower difficulties where it actually worked out fine because the rhythms were fine. In Ultra it doesn't work out well as I've already explained above. Again, playability is not the issue here, your rhythm placement is.
  8. 01:51:389 (1,2,3,4,5) - Doesn't follow anything properly and the spacing on the ministream feels really huge. :arrow: this one is a commonly used technic to use the stream to overwrite the piano sweeps, because make it a hold for buzz slider will be too easy for this diff and for its strong sound, but do smt like ctb snap it to 1/12 will also be a over kill, therefore current solution is the best for me.
It is fine if the snapping overwrite isn't too noticeable or the ideal snapping would make it hard to play, but here it certainly is not because the stream doesn't follow a thing in the song. You can go with 1/2 ticks for the drums here, or 3/4 to give notion to the piano sweeps (see Delis' set), but the current rhythm is no great solution.

Sorry if I sound blunt, but this map doesn't look well executed to me at all. Many concepts you used in this map lack proper application which I explained above, and this seems to need more work before being ranked imo. Other peoples opinion's matter ofc, so it might be good to ask around. Anyways, good luck with the set o/
I know it is not a creative map to many people's standard, however, my idea was very clear, also I did many test plays and according to the test player they could catch my flow with these "werid" sliders, and that is why I believe this map should be able to get ranked. aesthetics is a very weird term, because I truly believe I made a great flow with sliders, many player agree to me. however, some mappers disagree to my because in the editor it does not look that pretty. My response is: the map is for play, for me it is pretty.
I care for the quality of this map more than its rankability, and I still believe you should put a bit more work into this map, but well it's your set in the end. I never raised aesthetics or playability as an issue though, so not sure why you always bring these points up in your arguments. Rhythm placement is the critical issue here, which I still believe makes this set unfitting for rank as of now.
nextplay
Lol why is Kisses Diff Novice instead of Normal because Maps like this https://osu.ppy.sh/s/156235 are useing Novice>Advanced>Exhaust but here it is Novice>Advanced>Hard>Insane
_handholding

nextplay wrote:

Lol why is Kisses Diff Novice instead of Normal because Maps like this https://osu.ppy.sh/s/156235 are useing Novice>Advanced>Exhaust but here it is Novice>Advanced>Hard>Insane
it lacks 1/2 beats so I don't think it's appropriate to call it a normal and novice does fit it with the spread.. kinda
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and
Hard for you does not mean it is hard for everyone. Your most points are about my motion intense designing in general. However, a player cannot play the first part he is already out from the Ultra diff. This diff requires strong aiming and movement ability.
I could not understand your point of up and downs. this song to me only has minor intensity change and I would not agree to your point of change the spacing and sv too much for presenting the "rhythm intensity change". There are songs I would like to do that, but not for this one.
Ok, lastly, your point of my rhythm choice, I think current rhythm is correct, because the usage of the kick sliders is quite consistent throughout the whole diff, I could not see any problem with rhythm placement as you mentioned. I want to explain my idea there: represent all drum beats as a click>then I found the vocal, strings, and everything else is continuing, notes are not good compared to my previous sections. finally, use kick sliders throughout the whole section come to my mind, because I do not want to make the rhythm placement too complex since it actually was not that diverse, mixed rhythm placement is not good to me for this song. so I added additions on every slider head and make the whole section kick sliders. I asked for some player's feedback, my current kiai has a great difficulty and fit my overall motion intense theme. the other mapping like moecho's insane, starr's aguma will break the whole diff's feeling. and that is why there is only kick sliders in the kiai: because: 1, the rhythm is not diverse, 2, other parts of the map are motion intense, there is no way I should make this part too easy, 3, test plays showed its difficulty is actually very good, if a person passed the previous section, he will feel this part has a right difficulty.
Pho
I'm aware of the difficulty of the map, and my points still stand.
There are clear differences in intensity in the track which you can highlight in terms of spacing and rhythm density. And you did care of that in your Another difficulty, just look at 00:41:758 - this section compared to the previous one (you even set bookmarks that logically separates sections from each other), so why you chose to make it all constant on the ultra difficulty is a big question mark for me.
Also, the way you described your kickslider usage is questionable, it sounds like you arbitrarily used kicksliders whenever you see fit. While your rhythms are consistent, the one your measurements in the kiai are based on (00:56:916 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,3) - ) doesn't work out well in the Ultra, in contrast to Another and Hyper, due to what I already wrote above. (Speaking of, you seem to dodge giving answer to the specific timestamps I pointed out, oh well)
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and

Pho wrote:

I'm aware of the difficulty of the map, and my points still stand.
There are clear differences in intensity in the track which you can highlight in terms of spacing and rhythm density. And you did care of that in your Another difficulty, just look at 00:41:758 - this section compared to the previous one (you even set bookmarks that logically separates sections from each other), so why you chose to make it all constant on the ultra difficulty is a big question mark for me.
Also, the way you described your kickslider usage is questionable, it sounds like you arbitrarily used kicksliders whenever you see fit. While your rhythms are consistent, the one your measurements in the kiai are based on (00:56:916 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,3) - ) doesn't work out well in the Ultra, in contrast to Another and Hyper, due to what I already wrote above. (Speaking of, you seem to dodge giving answer to the specific timestamps I pointed out, oh well)
I do not give specific timecode because all your point are arguing my mapping idea in general, how does that not fit in the rhythm, so I explain my mapping idea in general.
ok about this one 00:41:758 - , tbh in Another it's Rizia's idea. at least its his rhythm choice (I arranged the placement). I think it is a fun pattern because it switched to another track which is different from my mapping theory. I respected his rhythm choice. To me it should have the same spacing on patterning according to my theory (as you can see in hyper).
Pho
I will leave the decision to the QAT whether the map should be open for discussion or not. I'll just add one final point for now that I didn't bring up in my previous posts:
01:47:442 - 01:54:705 - The final kiai is is pure 1/2 singletapping jumps with high spacing throughout all objects, with clear lack of differentiation
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and
put all your thoughts in one sentence: overall spacing too huge, too many notes, and too hard...
uhm, I think that is all modern mapping are focusing at on their PP jumpy sections. It is just, my map does not offer pp because of the continuous pressure throughout the whole diff. It will be hard for most players to follow the intense mapping.
However, we already see many FCs and even with HR.
and is this song much less intense than those 7* or 8* jumpy maps? I don't think so.
the only parts you did not mention to my diff was the biggest cross-screen jumps. These days I only map these in ultra diff, partially because I believe if a player can fc those jumps, they must have the skill for the rest of the diff, those who play the TV size for trying their luck for the cross-screen jumps should not be allowed to take these PP.
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