osu!taiko World Cup 2017 - Discussion Thread

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Topic Starter
Loctav
wiki updated! give it a bit to populate!
Catgirl
funny that the goal of the initial version of scorev2 was to stop people from using no finisher skins when in the tiebreaker even more people are gonna use them than before lolol
Niko-nyan

Catgirl wrote:

funny that the goal of the initial version of scorev2 was to stop people from using no finisher skins when in the tiebreaker even more people are gonna use them than before lolol
that's the truth :( rip
Backfire
Score V2 Top Ten Anime Betrayals
Topic Starter
Loctav
Team Support Profile Banners are up for sale! http://store.ppy.sh/store/product/192

All money raised goes into funding the prizes for the podium winners. If your supported team wins the world cup, you can even keep your banner a bit longer!
Topic Starter
Loctav
and wiki has been updated! give it a bit to populate
cdhsausageboy
wow
-[ Dumpling ]-

cdhsausageboy wrote:

wow
[Lunatic Elf]
R.I.P osulive T^T
Topic Starter
Loctav
the wiki has been updated!
Topic Starter
Loctav
and again me, with another update. fancy
Backfire
Just wanna say this pool is over the line and i really feel bad for the players in this one.
Alchyr
Just my personal perspective on this twc.

The main purposes of twc should be
A. A place for some of the best players of taiko mode to compete in a FUN and fair way
B. A place for players to watch some of the best taiko players compete

Right now, it doesn't really do these very well.

A. I know there have been plenty of comments that the mappool is way too hard, and it's unfair and unbalanced. I do have to agree with this. The problem isn't just that the maps are hard though, and that players can't pass them. The winning team is still proven to be better. The problem is that, it isn't fun at all. Yes, this is a competition showcasing amazingly skilled players, but it's also a game. Balancing a mappool around the very best players or the goal of "the hardest maps that are still passable" results in a pool nobody likes. People don't play taiko to memorize maps just so they can have a chance of passing them. They play to enjoy the game. Probably. If players are literally unable to pass a map without practicing it, or even unable to pass even if they do, it just results in frustration, and people quitting taiko. Someone I know was frustrated enough to do so. For example, HR Freedom Dive. Only one player, the #1 global taiko player passed it in the Taiwan vs Japan match. It's just... not fun. The mappool should be at a level where most players, playing for the first time, could at least pass. And that's what I would honestly prefer; if maps were revealed on the day of the competition. Then it would actually be a test of reading and skill, rather than who practiced and memorized the pool most.

B. Second, while hard maps are cool and all, do you really think the audience wants to watch people struggling just to pass, or giving up in the middle? It's not fun to play, and it's not fun to watch.

It's fine to have some insanely hard maps, for the groups that can play them. But please, also balance it with more reasonable maps for everyone else, because at its core, osu! is a game. And games are meant to be fun.

Sorry for the wall of text. :?
Ekoro
giving my two cents as well

the fact is that even among the best teams (to me, taiwan/japan are the two best teams of the game), there's too much difference in raw skill. just look at _yu casually doing very good on every map while his teammates sometimes can't even follow (quoting freedom dive here, actually that's the only map where we can see it).

from this world cup, we should just conclude that mappool should be adapted to one (or more) team instead of a few "very good players".
as a player who likes to play hard maps, i liked this mappool because it's really challenging and i'd like to test myself against the best players on these maps. but i have to admit that it's just way too hard for some players who can't even pass them.

i'm fine with having a much harder mappool in general because the past years were just too easy and it could be a matter of shitmissing/accuracy only. i personally think that:

  1. group stage mappool should be moved to round of 16
  2. round of 16 mappool should be moved to quarterfinals
  3. ... and such.
  4. however the semifinals pool seems too easy for finals matches, so maybe a buff would be required.


memory is also a part of the difficulty itself, as you need to prepare for a lot of SV changes and stuff. FREEDOM DiVE might be too much, but that's "basically" memory as the long streams are all the same. it used to be even more retarded than this (higher HP and higher SV). if you get a mappool, you have one week to play the maps and train them (and since you're in a team, you aren't even supposed to play all the maps). i do think that i can pass most of the pool, with a little bit of practice.

some "sightread" tournament could be interesting though, why not, but maybe this isn't what staff isn't looking for? and we would literally ban most maps with some ninja SV/spinners because everyone would miss on them.

this is a world cup which tests the best players of each country. i admit that on the matches it rely a little bit too much on individual skill & single pass, though. to defend the mapset selectors, they tried something new this year which might not have been too good, it happens. just wait for the next year to show the same system but even better

tl;dr even if i liked the idea of much higher difficulty, every pool should be slightly nerfed to keep something somewhat challenging while allowing most players to play the map.
Topic Starter
Loctav
wiki has been updated, by the way.
He Ang CTB

Alchyr wrote:

Just my personal perspective on this twc.

The main purposes of twc should be
A. A place for some of the best players of taiko mode to compete in a FUN and fair way
B. A place for players to watch some of the best taiko players compete

Right now, it doesn't really do these very well.

A. I know there have been plenty of comments that the mappool is way too hard, and it's unfair and unbalanced. I do have to agree with this. The problem isn't just that the maps are hard though, and that players can't pass them. The winning team is still proven to be better. The problem is that, it isn't fun at all. Yes, this is a competition showcasing amazingly skilled players, but it's also a game. Balancing a mappool around the very best players or the goal of "the hardest maps that are still passable" results in a pool nobody likes. People don't play taiko to memorize maps just so they can have a chance of passing them. They play to enjoy the game. Probably. If players are literally unable to pass a map without practicing it, or even unable to pass even if they do, it just results in frustration, and people quitting taiko. Someone I know was frustrated enough to do so. For example, HR Freedom Dive. Only one player, the #1 global taiko player passed it in the Taiwan vs Japan match. It's just... not fun. The mappool should be at a level where most players, playing for the first time, could at least pass. And that's what I would honestly prefer; if maps were revealed on the day of the competition. Then it would actually be a test of reading and skill, rather than who practiced and memorized the pool most.

B. Second, while hard maps are cool and all, do you really think the audience wants to watch people struggling just to pass, or giving up in the middle? It's not fun to play, and it's not fun to watch.

It's fine to have some insanely hard maps, for the groups that can play them. But please, also balance it with more reasonable maps for everyone else, because at its core, osu! is a game. And games are meant to be fun.

Sorry for the wall of text. :?
Very well structured and clearly explained, couldn't agree more.
Suzuka12345
wow there is one
Eiuh

Ekoro wrote:

i'm fine with having a much harder mappool in general because the past years were just too easy and it could be a matter of shitmissing/accuracy only. i personally think that:

  1. group stage mappool should be moved to round of 16
  2. round of 16 mappool should be moved to quarterfinals
  3. ... and such.
this
Mills
^^^^^
Im glad I didnt join after all. The requirement to join TWC is to be >5000 ranks (if Im not mistanken), but the GS mappool this year was unpassable even for >900 ranked players. I dont know what the beatmapchoosers were thinking when they made this mappool, but it ain't fun for players who cant pass them. I'd rather have players SS every single map, if that means I can pass them.
Eiuh

UNI-Q wrote:

^^
^^^
Im glad I didnt join after all. The requirement to join TWC is to be >5000 ranks (if Im not mistanken), but the GS mappool this year was unpassable even for >900 ranked players. I dont know what the beatmapchoosers were thinking when they made this mappool, but it ain't fun for players who cant pass them. I'd rather have players SS every single map, if that means I can pass them.
While a lot of players(me included) agree this mappool diff was overboard, mid-higher tier players have gotten tired of easily SSable maps in groups.
Regarding the rank requirement, the vast majority of players below #1500 wouldn't be able to handle this mappool. However, some people are very underranked (Hydria and PING are participants that come to mind), so I don't see why they wouldn't leave registrations open for lower ranks aswell.
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