I hope there won't be any more drama or memery in here.
Don't make me warn you with a silence please, it is not worth the game, trust me.
Don't make me warn you with a silence please, it is not worth the game, trust me.
Funny how I just mentioned you a few minutes back in my mod talking about the same thing and then you show up \o/Shiirn wrote:
The problem here isn't that there's "copying" going on, but that somehow a mapper's creativity is so inherently limited in scope that it feels "wrong" to map any particular set of a music track any differently from "the best" way.
Monstrata is extremely skilled at figuring out the "most natural" way to represent the music in a beatmap. This makes for very pleasing maps to play, and ones that people find very easy as well. Hence his popularity.
But when you get right down to the details of individual musical tracks, you find that there is
a
lot
of the same shit going on.
When you figure out "the best" way to represent a 5-roll, a cascade pattern, and do nothing but that, and (looking at you, irreversible) tell other people to do nothing but that, you're going to end up with extremely visually similar maps, until you reach a point where "the best" way to map is unequivocally going to be similar to how Monstrata maps it, because he's good at that style.
Whether Kroytz was using Monstrata's mapping as a reference, a direct inspiration, or even just as the only way he knows how to map (take a look at Ascension to Heaven - it's also extremely plain and uninspired, but effective), is irrelevant in the end.
Ya'll only have yourselves to blame. You like and encourage one particular style, then when it starts taking over, you have the audacity to complain. I've seen it all over and nary a half dozen people actually tried to do anything about it. The rest stomped them down, all the while bitching that every map "feels the same".
EDIT: also because im bored i might mod this later just to get some sick kd to pretend to be alive
Shiirn wrote:
The problem here isn't that there's "copying" going on, but that somehow a mapper's creativity is so inherently limited in scope that it feels "wrong" to map any particular set of a music track any differently from "the best" way.
Monstrata is extremely skilled at figuring out the "most natural" way to represent the music in a beatmap. This makes for very pleasing maps to play, and ones that people find very easy as well. Hence his popularity.
But when you get right down to the details of individual musical tracks, you find that there is
a
lot
of the same shit going on.
When you figure out "the best" way to represent a 5-roll, a cascade pattern, and do nothing but that, and (looking at you, irreversible) tell other people to do nothing but that, you're going to end up with extremely visually similar maps, until you reach a point where "the best" way to map is unequivocally going to be similar to how Monstrata maps it, because he's good at that style.
Whether Kroytz was using Monstrata's mapping as a reference, a direct inspiration, or even just as the only way he knows how to map (take a look at Ascension to Heaven - it's also extremely plain and uninspired, but effective), is irrelevant in the end.
Ya'll only have yourselves to blame. You like and encourage one particular style, then when it starts taking over, you have the audacity to complain. I've seen it all over and nary a half dozen people actually tried to do anything about it. The rest stomped them down, all the while bitching that every map "feels the same".
EDIT: also because im bored i might mod this later just to get some sick kd to pretend to be alive
I'm not dismissing it, i'd like to hear exactly what his motivations are. No need to get snippy, friend.Shiirn wrote:
I think it's pretty fucking arrogant to just dismiss anyone's purpose for mapping.
But then, I doubt you'd understand the concept of other human beings having different motivations. You map easy marathons for memes, after all, what's the fucking point?
What do we gain out of knowing what his motivations are? Modding the map helps him, knowing why he mapped it doesn't.Weber wrote:
I'm not dismissing it, i'd like to hear exactly what his motivations are. No need to get snippy, friend.Shiirn wrote:
I think it's pretty fucking arrogant to just dismiss anyone's purpose for mapping.
But then, I doubt you'd understand the concept of other human beings having different motivations. You map easy marathons for memes, after all, what's the fucking point?
Well, nothing really. I was just curious. Sorry if my previous wording was too antagonistic, I do respect Kroytz, I just wanted to see where he was coming from.Shiguma wrote:
What do we gain out of knowing what his motivations are? Modding the map helps him, knowing why he mapped it doesn't.
--Shiirn wrote:
When you want to keep natural flow going with basically one strict rhythm to follow, you're going to end up with similar patterns.
I assume you've never heard of a personal message before xdWeber wrote:
Well, nothing really. I was just curious. Sorry if my previous wording was too antagonistic, I do respect Kroytz, I just wanted to see where he was coming from.
I think it's time to wake up friendShiirn wrote:
I directly took a stream from another mapper in my Ascension to Heaven map, never really mentioned it to anyone, and kept it in my head as a personal homage to that mapper. I don't feel that is plagiarism.
Either change the patterns to something new and creative or demonstrate how they aren't a copy. Simple as that.Monstrata wrote:
I'm giving every single example of what I as the original mapper felt was a clear copy. Kroytz is a creative mapper, he can easily find a different way to map those sections I pointed out no? And then I would have no qualms about this map.
How can you plagiarize yourself if you aren't taking someone else's work?Monstrata wrote:
Hell, you can even plagiarize yourself if you don't quote from your own published works lol.
That's not plagiarism (if you're using your own works), that's an entirely different matter.Logic Agent wrote:
It was a dramatic example. In certain (maybe most, if not all) college courses, you have to cite every source you used in a finished paper. If you don't cite yourself, welp...
So you're making and statement here, meaning that Kroytz should re-map all the parts that are "copies" of your map?Monstrata wrote:
he can easily find a different way to map those sections I pointed out no? And then I would have no qualms about this map.
LULShiirn wrote:
When you want to keep natural flow going with basically one strict rhythm to follow, you're going to end up with similar patterns.
I hope there won't be any more drama or memery in here.
Don't make me warn you with a silence please, it is not worth the game, trust me.
Locking for the time being, contact a GMT if you need it unlocked for something actually "useful" to the map.And also Monstrata has even specified that this should not be about the map as a whole in his statement;
I'm giving every single example of what I as the original mapper felt was a clear copy. Kroytz is a creative mapper, he can easily find a different way to map those sections I pointed out no? And then I would have no qualms about this map..