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posted
holy shit that was over five years ago


rip in peace 100pa-, you were an inspiration :thinking:
posted
Please stop making this about the map as a whole. I'm sitting her pointing out specific patterns. Also, if you go to any academic institution, any instance of plagiarism causes the entire paper to be plagiarized. Hell, you can even plagiarize yourself if you don't quote from your own published works lol.

I already stated my intentions pretty clearly.

Monstrata wrote:

I'm giving every single example of what I as the original mapper felt was a clear copy. Kroytz is a creative mapper, he can easily find a different way to map those sections I pointed out no? And then I would have no qualms about this map.
Either change the patterns to something new and creative or demonstrate how they aren't a copy. Simple as that.

[]

If you aren't satisfied with that, then I honestly have no clue what you are even arguing about, or why you're even here lol.
posted
There we go, then. Hope he's mature and changes things up for you.



Also, this isn't an academic institution, it's a loony bin for music-lovers-turned-sadomasochists. Standards might be a little bit different, so we shouldn't get too carried away with analogies.
posted

Monstrata wrote:

Hell, you can even plagiarize yourself if you don't quote from your own published works lol.
How can you plagiarize yourself if you aren't taking someone else's work?
posted
It was a dramatic example. In certain (maybe most, if not all) college courses, you have to cite every source you used in a finished paper. If you don't cite yourself, welp...
posted

Logic Agent wrote:

It was a dramatic example. In certain (maybe most, if not all) college courses, you have to cite every source you used in a finished paper. If you don't cite yourself, welp...
That's not plagiarism (if you're using your own works), that's an entirely different matter.
posted
It seems - regardless of whether any sort of plagiatism does apply in this case - that actions of copying specific elements into oneselfs map in the osu community isn't even being discussed in regards of the theme it being a questionable action because of the sake of an element, in similar manner, being used in a different map. Though this is the exact action I would see plagiatism in, that is whether something is "applied to the entire map" or not. I don't see any reason whatsoever that implies any difference (in terms of copying being blatant plagiatism) between those two. It does not at all matter whether a map represents the mappers own thoughts and creationism if he decided to randomly just copy elements of other maps.
The whole theme of a generic style being used in both maps is an entirely different discussion and does not influence the fact of whether plagiatism is rightfully denoted or not. The concept of "Mimicing styles" is a topic that is completely and utterly different from the charges that are being brought up to kroytz (which is plagiatism in terms of copying specific patterns whether or not they fit a specific style or not, which, again, does not mattern the slightest bit).
In my mind, it would be a start for rafraining from plagiatism (that is copying specific patterns that are recognizable) to become part of the ranking criteria.
And it is absolutely not a horrible idea for maps, in specific parts, to be necessarily different from a map of another set, as, for a map, being a product fully originating from the creativity and skill of its creator, is part of its purpose. And I am not talking about the style or the logic/flow patterns of specific parts of a map being an influence for a mapper to map a certain way - I am talking about blatantly copying patterns, that were thought out by another mapper to represent the song that is mapped to the best. Which again, neither do I know nor am able to judge whether this is the case here.
Calling out complaints (whether legitimate or not) as "bitching" doesn't help the discussion to advance in any way.

Sorry for this post, but it's 5:50 am and I got a little triggered I guess.
posted

Monstrata wrote:

he can easily find a different way to map those sections I pointed out no? And then I would have no qualms about this map.
So you're making and statement here, meaning that Kroytz should re-map all the parts that are "copies" of your map?
Let us think straight for a second here. How many maps of the same songs actually uses the same patterns, with the same rhythm choice, spacing, etc... This happens all the time in this game. Don't tell me you never notice that here;
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/812590 x https://osu.ppy.sh/s/493830

I have an even better example
MIIRO by Sakaue Nachi; (Hime) -> 00:55:543 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
MIIRO by Monstrata ; (TATOE) -> 00:51:692 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
MIIRO by sodarose ; (Insane) -> 00:55:543 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) -
MIIRO by Kawaiwkyik; (Miiro) -> 00:51:754 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) -

We have literally at least 4 difficulties ranked with the SAME FLOW and IDENTICAL rhythm with some space variations due to the difficulty range of each of them. This however doesn't mean that you copied Sakaue Nachi's final diff jumps, because, you're not the owner of this pattern. Like pretty much anything in this game, no one posses any idea here. We have people who first used it, but ,by no mean,s there're owners of ideas in this game.

The only thing that really gets me tired of this is because you guys just understood what's going on because this example is just too obvious and even people who don't mod or map can realize the similarities since the song is the same, but this is happening for a very long time now.
It's almost as if "Hey Kroytz, you can't use that there because I've done that in my map of the same song before!"
Then he gets the osu!file simple changes the music and then; "Oh ok, it's fine now."

I don't want to repeat myself, but the major problem is not your map getting copied Monstrata, but everyone making copies of a single mapping indentity that resolves around "polished aesthetic, blanket, hexagons, sharp angle jump flow, etc, etc", that leads into getting maps ranked in the past year.
Everyone is just mapping the same thing over and over again because there's hardly other ways to get things ranked.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/953586 x https://osu.ppy.sh/b/949011

But here we're discussing plagiarism. The only part you could argue that it's copy paste is this 02:40:568 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - and tbh why not take this as a simple case of "Hey, you used my pattern you son of a gun! At least mention me :/" and get over it? Think of it as clear mention to your map. Personally I've modded this and mention it as a pattern worth being changed for the sake of making it differently. But it's not like you found the cure of cancer and he stole it, it's just a bunch of sliders being spaced from down-up o.O
Trust me, you're not the first to use it either; https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7229049

Also, plagiarism in osu! should be seen in a really strictive way imo, to the point of actual .osu copy or simple flip cases (in the case of someone getting someone else's map and just flip it horizontally and call their own work). It's clear that Kroytz actually MAPPED the entire thing. He didn't take your map and started making small changes. He can even prove that since he livestreamed him mapping this for 9 hours straight.

I hope Kroytz will consider changing it for the sake of stopping this discussion. I also hope that your actions here as a mapper who feel offended by other copying ideas also reflects on how you nominate maps. Otherwise it's just a hypocritical situation that you don't allow people to copy you, but at the same time, if they don't follow your ideas you will not nominate their maps.
posted
weird map
posted
I looked through both songs, mapped by you and Monstrata, its the same map, just the jumps are a little bigger and you flipped the map
posted
Im think kroytz map better than monstrata.
posted
How many beats you ignore and how many overmap.
posted
I'd just like to point out that you can't copyright ideas and ideas that are "the way anyone would think to do it" never get granted patents. Monstrata's exact implementation may be covered under copyright but there is like what, a single circle that is in the exact same position?

Since this is a rhythm game it would make sense that we take a similar view as the music industry does. Copying a song is legally acceptable so long as you don't copy more than X seconds (I want to say X is 12 but I'm not a lawyer).

Even if you are able to make a compelling argument that Kroytz has copied parts of your map, you also need to make a compelling argument that the amount he copied is too much. Things aren't as black and white as you are trying to make them out to be.
posted
Its true thar kroytz took some ideas from monstrata's mapset, but as i was able to see while watching his stream was that he mapped all with his own creativity, it tooks some time to think on every pattern and think on what was better or not, what was comfortable and what wasn't, he even was like 1 hour in a simple 5 seconds section LUL, but the point is that most of the similarities weresnt on purpose, whats wrong if he had the same idea than monstrata? Its normal, not every map is exactly different tho..
I actually take some ideas from other mapsets when i map and it dont makes me a copier.
So please stop making innecesary drama zzz
posted
maybe krotyz and monstrata should have the discussion instead of other people coming in and making it drama

even if so my two cents:

I M O some of the patterns monstrata showed seemed way too similar to just be a strange coincedence at this point. i agree with that patterns are not copyrighted or anything and therefore some similar occations could happen, but the amount of patterns that happened to be identical here makes this feel like a lazy job which i didnt expect from a mapper like kroytz. i have high respects for kroytz but not for this map as it mostly shows uncreativity which really hurts me.

Shiirn wrote:

When you want to keep natural flow going with basically one strict rhythm to follow, you're going to end up with similar patterns.
LUL
this is a full disagreement, every mapper has more or less a different mindset and thus will most likely map different patterns, also how a person thinks a song should be mapped is mostly different from all other persons ya. i also believe people should have enough creativity to make different patterns for some occations as well ya
posted
Its hp 6.5 and theres 6 seconds of drain combined at 03:57:837 (1) - and then 04:00:178 (5) - to 04:02:081 (1) -
Maybe insert break time as its after a difficult stream. This allows the player to take a break without losing HP before the hard part.
posted
Please stop arguing about whether or not this map is a full copy of Monstrata or not. If a GMT or someone of significant power believes this to be stolen/copied then they will deal with it. The only replies on this thread for now should be mods and feedback on the map. If constant replies relating to the drama are to be continued then the thread will be locked permanently and people will end up get silenced as MrSergio said.
I hope there won't be any more drama or memery in here.

Don't make me warn you with a silence please, it is not worth the game, trust me.
Locking for the time being, contact a GMT if you need it unlocked for something actually "useful" to the map.
And also Monstrata has even specified that this should not be about the map as a whole in his statement;
I'm giving every single example of what I as the original mapper felt was a clear copy. Kroytz is a creative mapper, he can easily find a different way to map those sections I pointed out no? And then I would have no qualms about this map.
.

Now that, that is clear i would like to see only constructive replies from now on.


i know i sound a bit like an admin but im just getting annoyed
posted
04:19:276 (6,7,8,9,10) - hey man playing this is like stapling your nuts to the roof and jumping off so please change into something flowy
posted
i feel sorry for Kroytz ;n; some sliders and the hole community comes down at him/his map.. yeah some sliders are the same but everything else isnt... try mapping it yourself and see how similar it will become..
posted

Leggo wrote:

i feel sorry for Kroytz ;n; some sliders and the hole community comes down at him/his map.. yeah some sliders are the same but everything else isnt... try mapping it yourself and see how similar it will become..
I'm sorry but have you read monstrata's comment on the first page? it's definitely more than just "some sliders"

the chances of making so many similar looking things is pretty slim if you start out on different places and crap, but what do I know
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