forum

Tomita Miyu, Onishi Saori, Ohzora Naomi, Hanazawa Kana - Gab

posted
Total Posts
189
show more
Inversal
Since my rule is total drain time < 8 min so I'll mod you 5 diffs

General

- In easier diffs try to simplify the rhythm to be forgivable for newbies

Normal

- Try to avoid stacking in normal diff.

- Try to use same rhythm in an entire part to not confusing the new players

00:13:802 (3) - What is this?? Why not do it like 00:12:373 (5) -

00:17:730 (4) - This thing is quite hard to read too. since you make this 00:16:659 (2) -

00:31:838 (5,6,7) - Switching polarity in normal is really punishable for new players. You should make sliderhead begins at the same colored tick in the stream to not mislead newbie players.

00:37:730 (6) - Slider? There're vocals on 00:37:909 -

Hard

00:17:373 (1) - !!!??? 1/2?

Rest looks okay.

Kurisu's Hyper

00:12:373 (4) - 1/2 Slider?

01:17:730 - Maybe add a note here to be consistent with 01:19:070 (2,3) - ?

This diff looks nice!

Insane

00:20:945 (3) - Not a reasonable thing if you said you're following the whispering talking sounds. So change it to a circle and leave the gap is a lot better

00:21:659 - to 00:24:338 - Maybe decreasing the SV and Spacing (Suggested to apply to every slow parts to make difference between slow and the fast part)

Tenshi

00:00:231 (1) - Nice wing :D

- I can't find anything in this diff sorry

GL ranking this :D
xDololow
Hi
[General]
Set preview point

[Tenshi]
00:04:159 (4) - move to x328 y24
00:08:802 (1) - slider?
00:13:445 (3) - move to x104 y248
00:13:802 (5) - add point at x384 y352
00:14:248 (8,9) - move to x240 y112
00:16:480 (4) - move to x232 y192
00:18:802 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - make like this http://prntscr.com/e5n96p
00:34:159 (5) - move to x104 y344 and turn on -45 degree
00:42:730 - Break here
00:46:659 (6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - make like this http://prntscr.com/e5nbd5

[Insane]
00:38:623 (7) - stack with 00:38:088 (4) ?
00:42:730 - Break here

Weird but i like it. :P

Good Luck
Curisu

Inversal wrote:

Kurisu's Hyper oops typo

00:12:373 (4) - 1/2 Slider?

01:17:730 - Maybe add a note here to be consistent with 01:19:070 (2,3) - ? Following vocal

This diff looks nice!

Sinnoh wrote:

Hyper
00:27:373 (1) - SV changes are probably a bit much Whole section are using 0.5x (consistent with 00:21:659 -)
00:36:838 (5,6,1) - Eh jumps are kinda too big here remapped
00:45:945 (1,2,1) - You use a 3x, 5x, and 4x reverse slider in succession. How are people meant to read them? error (fixed)
00:53:088 (1,2) - way too big jump imo not
01:07:641 (2,3) - Not sure these work, the violin which is the more important sound is on the previous tick also following vocal
01:10:766 (3,4) - Just change to slider cause impossible to read rhythm change improved the readability via other mean
01:20:588 (2,2) - pls do not do that it's really difficult to read 100% overlaps of sliders like this, change position. Even if you reject, they're not identical. k
https://puu.sh/tSnx1/bb141e7c7f.osu
Topic Starter
wcx19911123
fixed something, thanks for modding :3
please pm me if you want a full mod reply, I'll do it assp if you want(lazy to reply everyone, sorry)

added preview time to all diffs
added kiai time to my own diffs
all diffs updated

myself reminder:
  1. BG
  2. video
  3. combo color
zev
general

You need a background& combo color


00:24:159 (4) -

00:34:695 (2) - the beat on the white tick is way too strong for a 3/4 slider

00:36:123 (2) - could be spaced a bit further and i think a bowed slider fits more for the flow.

00:38:088 (4,5,6,7) - This pattern looks a bit uneven

00:40:945 (5) - very strong beats! it would feel more satisfying if they were clickable

01:09:695 (1,2) - NC those to indicate different instrument, and why are they not bowed like the other kick sliders.

01:21:838 (2,3,4) - bit uneven
Lily Bread
沒事,經過留個名而已
X Light
From my modding queue.

沒事,經過留個名而已

[Tenshi]
  1. 00:27:284 (1) - 这里建议用soft
  2. 00:52:373 (5,6,7,8) - 试试这样?http://puu.sh/tViKs/855b8dc981.jpg
  3. 00:57:552 (2,3) - 这里2没必要blanket 往上一些打起来比较舒服
  4. 01:08:266 (5,6,7) - 这里我觉得这样比较顺啊http://puu.sh/tViVi/327b13a390.jpg
  5. 01:10:230 (3) - 这个我觉得可以往上偏右一点去
  6. 01:14:873 (2) - 认真点拉啊...
[Insane]
  1. 00:15:588 (8) - 这里我觉得可以弄个3/4滑条然后滑条尾加个note
[Curisu's Hyper]
[listNo need for a list XD looks good
[Hard]
  1. 00:46:123 (2) - 这里贴1滑条尾近一点吧
  2. 00:57:373 (1) - 我更倾向于滑条+单点
N和E出于对唱戏大师的信任就不看了
Nao Tomori
kindly change the bg to not be a mostly naked girl before i check this, thanks.
Topic Starter
wcx19911123

Nao Tomori wrote:

kindly change the bg to not be a mostly naked girl before i check this, thanks.
alright.. removed. finding new bg now :roll:

changed combo color in guest diff, all diffs updated

P.S. thumbnail is slower than me ._.
Ashton
i thought the bg was kind of kawaii... :(
Nao Tomori
whirl you're like 13 you're not even legal

..

[tenshi]
00:05:945 (1,2,3,4) - this placement seems kinda random, is there some pattern or something..?

00:08:088 (3) - should be more emphasized, like 00:03:802 (3,3) -

00:11:480 - weird to ignore this, section sounds like one long stream to me
00:12:195 -
some other notes in there too

00:19:159 (5,6,7,8) - i think this stream jump is too big, it sounds similar to the one at 00:14:873 (5) - but is double the size or so..

00:16:659 (5,6) - misleading spacing with 00:16:302 (3,4) - imo. 4 is underspaced, 5>6 is overspaced.

00:20:945 (3) - looks weird visually cuz you are mostly following the guitar thingy, and it stops here. better to just leave it as a circle than switch to "vocals."

00:22:195 (2,3) - is really big for the calm part imo.

00:23:623 (2,4) - can you space these out more..

00:28:623 (7,1) - spacing emphasis should be on 1 rather than on 7

00:45:855 (1,2) - this is kind of misleading imo, people would see it as 1/1 spacing or 1/2 spacing since 3/4 is somewhat irregular. you could extend 00:45:588 (11) - to avoid this.

00:57:373 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - spacing on this pattern as a whole is too high imo.

00:58:980 (2,3,4) - these wide angles are really uncomfortable to play.. is there a reason you used them?

01:06:838 (7,8,9) - weird cuz while there is a drum on the red tick, the vocal starts on the blue tick. i recommend changing 01:06:659 (6) - to 1/2 slider

01:11:123 (5) - 01:16:838 (5,6) - both these things are not good rhythm, i think the circle + slider rhythm created by ctrl g on the 2nd pair of notes is better than just one slider.

01:22:730 (9) - this one is also kind of big jump imo, even though there's a precedent.

[insane]
00:20:945 (3) - same thing here tbh, kinda weird

00:30:230 (1,5) - you can red point in these to follow the devil theme, same with 00:35:945 (1,5) - imo

00:59:695 (6,7,8) - this is very uncomfortable, same as extra xd

01:06:302 (4,6,7) - shouldn't this all be same rhythm?

01:11:123 (5) - 01:16:838 (5,6) - uh same thing as in extra, this is bad rhythm imo.

[hyper]

00:25:230 - you could do the sharp thingy for the devil part imo

00:27:373 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - ugh can you spread this out more, it looks better like that imo.

00:44:516 - i think the spacing in this section is also very low, making it all overlap makes it annoying to play and read imo. please spread stuff out a bit.

01:13:355 - only double used in the entire map? o.o

01:23:088 (1,2,3,4,5) - this is very dense mapping considering that all the instruments more or less stopped, better to copy what the two higher diffs did imo.

karen will qualify other version of this so i can't really icon it till after that xd
Topic Starter
wcx19911123
Nao Tomori

Nao Tomori wrote:

[tenshi]
00:05:945 (1,2,3,4) - this placement seems kinda random, is there some pattern or something..?
no patterns here.. I jsut reduced their spacing one by one, make a calm down part here

00:08:088 (3) - should be more emphasized, like 00:03:802 (3,3) -
here is a soft part, so I used some simple rhythm instead of following everything

00:11:480 - weird to ignore this, section sounds like one long stream to me
here is a heavy vocal so I make an empty after it to emphasize this beat
00:12:195 -
some other notes in there too
same reason as before. and also another reason is that I think full of 1/4 here makes a bit boring

00:19:159 (5,6,7,8) - i think this stream jump is too big, it sounds similar to the one at 00:14:873 (5) - but is double the size or so..
reduced a bit

00:16:659 (5,6) - misleading spacing with 00:16:302 (3,4) - imo. 4 is underspaced, 5>6 is overspaced.
I used weird spacing around here cuz the song is full of irregular vocal and piano here in this part. normal spaicng won't fit this part very well imo. but the spacing is under control, it's easy to read for this level's player imo

00:20:945 (3) - looks weird visually cuz you are mostly following the guitar thingy, and it stops here. better to just leave it as a circle than switch to "vocals."
umm, a reverse slider is also a transition to switch following track imo. ppl don't need to move their mouse and have enough time to see what happen next. it makes the same sense as a single circle with empty parts folloing

00:22:195 (2,3) - is really big for the calm part imo.
the jump itself is big, but the spacing around it is mush smaller than the average spacing of other parts. as a soft part, a single big jump won't break the feeling imo, after all the jump follow an heavy vocal here

00:23:623 (2,4) - can you space these out more..
fixed

00:28:623 (7,1) - spacing emphasis should be on 1 rather than on 7
this part's spacing is small in overall imo, though the spacing is changed at some place. so it won't be much different if we jump from a different place

00:45:855 (1,2) - this is kind of misleading imo, people would see it as 1/1 spacing or 1/2 spacing since 3/4 is somewhat irregular. you could extend 00:45:588 (11) - to avoid this.
this is fine imo. cuz I start nearly every slider at white beat line around here, it won't be much hard to read with those stack stuff

00:57:373 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - spacing on this pattern as a whole is too high imo.
jump's difficulty is not based on spacing only. it is also based on what the object type is between the jump. for example, with a same spacing and time gap, a slider-to-slider jump is much more easier than a circle-to-slider, a circle-to-slider jump is easier to a circle-to-circle jump. for this part, I didn't reduce spacing, but I changed some simple objects between those jumps. so this part won't be hard to play, actually it's easier than the other parts

00:58:980 (2,3,4) - these wide angles are really uncomfortable to play.. is there a reason you used them?
I just think every jump become acute angle would be a bit boring..

01:06:838 (7,8,9) - weird cuz while there is a drum on the red tick, the vocal starts on the blue tick. i recommend changing 01:06:659 (6) - to 1/2 slider
I just used complex rhythm to follow the 3/4 beat here, it won't be much different if I changed it into slider.

01:11:123 (5) - 01:16:838 (5,6) - both these things are not good rhythm, i think the circle + slider rhythm created by ctrl g on the 2nd pair of notes is better than just one slider.
2 objects are more fit the song indeed, but I like to make a small easy part as transition to connect every hard part, so I chose this vocal to do this

01:22:730 (9) - this one is also kind of big jump imo, even though there's a precedent.
fixed this part a bit to reduce the spacing

[insane]
00:20:945 (3) - same thing here tbh, kinda weird
still want to keep this as the reason above

00:30:230 (1,5) - you can red point in these to follow the devil theme, same with 00:35:945 (1,5) - imo
the current rhythm is also fine imo

00:59:695 (6,7,8) - this is very uncomfortable, same as extra xd
hope it's fine, I just used 2 straight jump here :p

01:06:302 (4,6,7) - shouldn't this all be same rhythm?
yep, same rhythm with different objects. won't be boring imo

01:11:123 (5) - 01:16:838 (5,6) - uh same thing as in extra, this is bad rhythm imo.
umm, well, if others mentioned this too, I'll consider to change it in all my diffs

karen will qualify other version of this so i can't really icon it till after that xd
I'm glad to see more maps with this song :3
thanks for your modding :3
Tenshi updated.

still waiting nice new bg come out..
Lily Bread
...实在太吵了,加上没BG,就不摸了
gl
RandomPrson
Beginner + Easy
this can aply to the other lower diffs as well
you could change the slider speed slightly faster in the kiai
isnt really much else to say since the notes are all on beat and its a really low diff

easy part of this box cause why not combine them
again not much to say
some things can be emphasized more like 01:08:802 (1,2) - most of the music basically stops at that point so that part of the music can be expressed different
but thats about it cause theres nothing much wrong with this just that you could try to make the music stand out more instead of everything being the same space and sv

Normal
might have forgot to put kiai here 01:11:123 (6) - same for other diffs higher than this
again not much change to show the music
some parts could have a different sv change cause it feels boring to play imo
just some random examples incomming
00:54:516 (5,6,7) - and 00:55:230 (8,9,10) - could be spaced differently making the gap between 4 to 5 and 7 to 89 bigger (and nc on 5?)
at 00:58:802 i see the build up with the notes but 01:00:409 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - tapping pattern just feels wierd imo even though its repeated on the next nc
00:21:659 (1) - and 00:27:373 (1) - should be the same lenght

Hard
again could use some sv changes in some places cause the map feels boring imo
part from 00:44:159 to 00:48:623 feels really if-y
00:54:516 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - another if-y part

Curisu's Hyper
i see no point for the sligth bend in sliders like this 00:05:230 (4) - since just about all the diffs use a lot of straight sliders
00:16:570 (2) - doesnt feel right with the lack of doubles throughout the map to support it
00:49:695 (4,5) - would seem better if it was just back and forth jumps like 00:55:230 (3,4,5,6) -
00:53:088 (1,2) - jump is way too much
01:20:588 (2,1) - and 01:19:873 (6,1) - both should be stacked or not stacked?

wont say much about about the last 2 since i cant play them at all
nice map :D :D
MrMenda
From the modding queue, finishing Sepia's mod:

Insane
-00:10:588 (3,4) - maybe using this as a triple works better
-00:17:373 (1,2,3) - Add another note after 2, triple feels better. Make the jump between the triple and 3 (then 4) smaller
-00:19:516 (7) - New combo
-00:20:945 (3) - Take the last 2 1/4 back and forwards
-00:26:659 (5,6) - Take away 6 and turn 5 into a 1/2 slider
-00:50:230 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Maybe using the same pattern on both of them
-00:52:373 (5,6,7,8) - Turn it into a smaller jump section instead of putting them that close
-01:22:730 (9,10,11,12,1) - Move the stream up so it flows better and move 1 so it doesnt look as overlapped with 12 as it looks now
-01:24:159 (2) - Consider curving this slider

Tenshi
-00:08:802 (1) - A slider would fit the song better
-00:15:409 (10) - New Combo
-00:16:659 (5,6) - Overlap 5 with 6
-00:17:016 (7) - New Combo
-00:19:516 (9) - ^
-00:30:766 (3,4,5) - Overlap 4 and 5 with the slider
-00:34:695 (2,3) - 3 sounds off, make the slider a bit longer
-00:44:159 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - Looks really nice. Maybe try to change combo in 6 or 7
-00:46:659 (6) - New Combo.
-00:50:230 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Same as in Insane. Maybe bigger spacing, as this is an extra
-00:52:373 (5,6,7,8) - ^
-01:20:588 (2) - It might be me, but isn’t this slider too fast?
-01:22:998 (12,1) - Move 1 to get correct overlapping
-01:24:159 (2,3) - Curve 2 and use it as blanket for 3.

Both difficulties look really good. Good luck^^
TheKingHenry
Hello mod from my queue~
General
  1. smth smth BG when
  2. add 3/4 timing point at 01:23:088 - since the time signature changes
Beginner
  1. 00:21:659 (1,2) - fix blanket
  2. 00:49:516 (3) - could map so that the white tick and important sound doesn't end up unclickable in a sliderend
  3. 01:02:016 (1) - while it is simple and thus works in Beginner diff, this emphasises the music poorly. Could be mapped with 1/2 shorter kickslider that ends on 01:03:088 - and then circle on the current sliderend place
  4. 01:08:088 (3) - important white tick sound sliderended again. Tho due the nature of the sound (and the break after it) it also kinda works in Beginner. Same at 01:13:802 (3) -
Easy
  1. 00:10:230 (1,2,3) - would look better if 00:10:945 (2,3) - had the same kind of positioning and angle compared to each other as 00:10:230 (1,2) -
  2. 00:12:373 (4,1,2) - while this is ok too I guess, it would look more neat if 00:12:373 (4,2) - blanketed. Don't lose the triangle tho
  3. 00:15:945 (1,2) - minor thing, but instead of having 00:16:659 (2) - lower than 00:15:945 (1) - (y=30 vs. y=32) which looks meh, preferably have it the same level
  4. 00:30:230 (1,3) - is this overlap necessary? If you just ran out of space, you can perhaps stack em or smth
  5. 00:35:945 (1,2) - I really liked the way you used curved vs. straight (or sharp) sliders expressing the change in tunes. Why doesn't this do it then?
  6. 00:38:088 (4,5,1) - due the stack, 4 looks like it's overlapping 1. Nevertheless doesn't look good. Perhaps do smth like this. (4: = x:328 y:112 ; 5 = x:328 y:109) or smth
  7. 00:47:373 (1,2,3,4,5) - if you do smth like this, have them form a straight line or alternatively symmetrical curve around 00:48:088 (3) - or just smth that makes it look more structured/interesting/both. Like currently it's almost straight line but 00:47:373 (1) - doesn't like up
  8. 00:53:802 (2,3,4) - similar stacking visual problem as earlier (tho it's very minor DS 0,95 instead of 1; but still visible) tho here due the order of the object you can just move 00:54:516 (3,4) - slightly lol
  9. 01:03:088 (3,4,5) - triangle instead of the overlap?
  10. 01:23:445 (1,2,3,4) - for thsi ending pattern smth like this would make more sense rhythimcally and emphasis-wise. The pic will make more sense after you add the 3/4 timing point. Slider 1 and 2 are basically at the 1st white ticks there, lasting for one bar each
Normal
  1. 00:12:373 (5,1) - since this looks like it's intended to be a blanket, fix it (you can see with the approach circle that it isn't perfect)
  2. 00:49:516 (7,8,9,10,1) - this kinda doesn't work due every other stacked pattern so far being 3 notes. It should be readable sure, but it's still unnecessarily similar, also losing the emphasis of the strong sounds here with 0 spacing. Or perhaps that's the emphasis ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  3. 01:03:445 (1,2) - you can hear the emphasis isn't on groups of 3 here anymore (stop at 01:03:445 - ) so slider of 2 + 2 + 2 or 4 + 2 or smth like that would make more sense. Tho it's not like you can't just have it this way too
  4. 01:05:945 (3) - would NC this instead, 01:05:588 (1,2) - to the previous combo since here is where new stuff starts. Similar case earlier at 00:44:159 (1,2,3) - but there the gap to the last objects was so large that it wouldn't necessarily make sense.
  5. similarly to last diff, last pattern needs work here too. It makes no sense emphasis-wise especially when you apply the correct 3/4 signature. I presume it will be the same case in every diff especially now that the density is increasing. I won't mention them, just change stuff along the timing change so they are more relevant.
  6. Also for this diff I kinda felt with your rhythmical choices that they were more like Hard diff stuff instead of Normal, but hey if it's not deemed "hard" by the system I guess it works then.
Hard
  1. 00:05:945 (2) - NC this, not the last one
  2. 00:14:516 (1,3) - would be possible to blanket these and then stack 00:14:159 (5,4) - for solid structure here
  3. 00:21:659 (1,3) - would blanket this too
  4. 00:25:409 (4) - I don't hear anything to justify triple. This way it also has the somewhat strong sound at 00:25:588 - in the slider end
  5. 00:28:445 (4,1) - fix blanket
  6. 00:44:516 (1,2) - since instruments don't have triples, I presume you are following the vocals here. Vocal "triples" however are located at the end of the beats, 1/2 later than what you currently have. You can hear how they have longer sounds at the beginning of the beats and then "triples" in the end.
  7. 00:45:855 (1) - 1/4 later, listen to with slowed down speed. Also makes it play less confusingly that way too (pls don't have it begin on blue tick)
  8. 01:03:445 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - same as in earlier diff. It's not really emphasised as groups of 3 anymore. I won't mention this in the later diffs anymore either, just change if you deem it so. (change in one = change in all, keep it consistent)
  9. 01:18:088 (4,5) - making the angle little larger would make it look better. You see how currently the curve is stronger than the angle and thus 01:18:445 (5) - is as if digging to the body of 01:18:088 (4) - line em up
Curisu's Hyper
  1. 00:15:230 (3,4,5) - with patterns like this before here, 00:16:570 (2,3) - this just doesn't work. It's definitely gonna end up read as 1/2 lol
  2. 00:26:302 (7,8) - arrange slightly so that 8 doesn't dig towards 7 (you see what's happening)
  3. 00:44:516 - this section is kinda questionable imo, lots of 1/4 mapped to barely audible sounds or sounds that don't necessarily even exist. How it's arranged tho makes sense and thus it's not bad to play. Dunno
  4. 00:49:159 (2,3,4,5,6,1) - the spacing inconsistensies are real here. I see your patterning idea here, but musically it doesn't make too much sense and due no support from music it doesn't play that well either and can be confusing
  5. 00:55:230 (3,4,5,6,1) - as if better version of the above ^ except 00:55:588 (5,6,1) - this transition is suddenly almost straight line, very smooth angle compared to the sharp ones before. Doesn't play that well, especially as you then stop it at 00:55:945 (1) - ; I would just continue with sharps. Perhaps just ctrl+h 00:55:945 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - and then slightly move them so it works with DS and stuff.
  6. 01:15:409 (3,4,5,1,2,3) - about the same visual spacing for different rhythms
Insane
  1. 00:27:373 (3) - change NC to this
  2. 01:05:945 (3) - ^
  3. 01:22:373 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1) - uh...First of all I wouldn't include this kind of stuff on this diff anyways. This stuff is for the top diff. For that matter, needs NC at 01:22:373 (5) - and then 01:22:730 (9) - for the jump. Also doesn't look too good, what's up with that 01:22:998 (12,1) - has it stacked there?
Tenshi
  1. looks like you are going really ham. First of all I would really make sure that you ain't just overmapping, so check if you have relevant sounds for everythin you map. Otherwise it's just gonna look like a mess and play that way too. Also if you want to use jumpstreams, perhaps NC new part of it, and think if the sound really justifies that kind of patterning.
  2. 00:27:373 (2) - the usual NC drill I guess
  3. 01:10:230 (3) - ^
  4. Didn't nazi too much on visuals here (or in the Insane) cuz I think these need more work without it too (tbh Insane was mostly decently clean). As in, I'm not too convinced all these 1/4 and the way you have patterned them make too much sense.
  5. Finally, what's up with copying patterns from the Insane? Okay, similar patterns are fine enough, since the music is similar. Patterns like 00:44:159 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - in Insane vs 00:44:159 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - in Tenshi scrape through my radar, but then the next phrase is exactly the same except the jumpstreams in Tenshi, more like the whole section all till the chorus is very similar for example. And finally 01:22:373 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1) - these patterns in both. Like, jumpstream like that shouldn't be in Insane anyways imo. If you want to have Extra here, recycling Insane this much doesn't make too much sense to me
Good luck!
Topic Starter
wcx19911123
fixed something, thanks for modding :3
please pm me if you want a full mod reply, I'll do it assp if you want(lazy to reply everyone, sorry)

fixed red timing sections in all diffs
all diffs updated

self reminder:
  1. BG
TheKingHenry

wcx19911123 wrote:

please pm me if you want a full mod reply, I'll do it assp if you want
I'll just drop this here cuz this is faster than forum message and I don't think I can catch you in-game because of timezone differences.
I don't really require you to do a full mod reply, but doing so will allow me to go through what was good and what you accepted and what was not and thus rejected. Replying to mods allows the modder to improve themselves and their mods in future, so I usually very much recommend doing it.
Topic Starter
wcx19911123
TheKingHenry

TheKingHenry wrote:

Hello mod from my queue~
General
  1. smth smth BG when
    would find soon
  2. add 3/4 timing point at 01:23:088 - since the time signature changes
    fixed
Beginner
  1. 00:21:659 (1,2) - fix blanket
    the current blanket looks fine imo
  2. 00:49:516 (3) - could map so that the white tick and important sound doesn't end up unclickable in a sliderend
    I just want to follow sound at 00:49:873 - but don't want here to be too hard to play, so I used a reverse slider here
  3. 01:02:016 (1) - while it is simple and thus works in Beginner diff, this emphasises the music poorly. Could be mapped with 1/2 shorter kickslider that ends on 01:03:088 - and then circle on the current sliderend place
    if I did, here would be a 1/1 gap between 2 objects, that's hard for a beginner diff imo
  4. 01:08:088 (3) - important white tick sound sliderended again. Tho due the nature of the sound (and the break after it) it also kinda works in Beginner. Same at 01:13:802 (3) -
    this 2 place are not that important to use complex rhythm to emphasize imo
Easy
  1. 00:10:230 (1,2,3) - would look better if 00:10:945 (2,3) - had the same kind of positioning and angle compared to each other as 00:10:230 (1,2) -
    not much difference imo
  2. 00:12:373 (4,1,2) - while this is ok too I guess, it would look more neat if 00:12:373 (4,2) - blanketed. Don't lose the triangle tho
    for an easy diff, the rhytm itself is very simple, so there's no much difference in playing an object with clicking or not. the harder the diff, the more blatant the difference
  3. 00:15:945 (1,2) - minor thing, but instead of having 00:16:659 (2) - lower than 00:15:945 (1) - (y=30 vs. y=32) which looks meh, preferably have it the same level
    this is fine imo.. ppl even won't realized what is changed if I fixed
  4. 00:30:230 (1,3) - is this overlap necessary? If you just ran out of space, you can perhaps stack em or smth
    they do overlapped but the time gap between them is totally enough imo, it's not hard to read even for new players
  5. 00:35:945 (1,2) - I really liked the way you used curved vs. straight (or sharp) sliders expressing the change in tunes. Why doesn't this do it then?
    do you noticed that I use curved slider for 2 characters' part and straight ones for another 2? I'm not using single patterns even in low difficulty diffs, or the map would be boring
  6. 00:38:088 (4,5,1) - due the stack, 4 looks like it's overlapping 1. Nevertheless doesn't look good. Perhaps do smth like this. (4: = x:328 y:112 ; 5 = x:328 y:109) or smth
    this is not good imo, cuz someone would play this with HR mode
  7. 00:47:373 (1,2,3,4,5) - if you do smth like this, have them form a straight line or alternatively symmetrical curve around 00:48:088 (3) - or just smth that makes it look more structured/interesting/both. Like currently it's almost straight line but 00:47:373 (1) - doesn't like up
    well the time gap between the objects on the both side of the screen is huge, it's unnecessary to force them to be symmetrical imo
  8. 00:53:802 (2,3,4) - similar stacking visual problem as earlier (tho it's very minor DS 0,95 instead of 1; but still visible) tho here due the order of the object you can just move 00:54:516 (3,4) - slightly lol
    I didn't see any 0.95 spacing here.. umm
  9. 01:03:088 (3,4,5) - triangle instead of the overlap?
    would be too hard imo
  10. 01:23:445 (1,2,3,4) - for thsi ending pattern smth like this would make more sense rhythimcally and emphasis-wise. The pic will make more sense after you add the 3/4 timing point. Slider 1 and 2 are basically at the 1st white ticks there, lasting for one bar each
    no much different imo, I jsut used same pattern at the beginning
Normal
  1. 00:12:373 (5,1) - since this looks like it's intended to be a blanket, fix it (you can see with the approach circle that it isn't perfect)
    fixed
  2. 00:49:516 (7,8,9,10,1) - this kinda doesn't work due every other stacked pattern so far being 3 notes. It should be readable sure, but it's still unnecessarily similar, also losing the emphasis of the strong sounds here with 0 spacing. Or perhaps that's the emphasis ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    this part is the most difficulty part in the diff, but it fits the sone well imo. clicking objects fits better than other objects here imo, but I don't want here to be too difficulty to play, so I stacked the 4 circles and leave a gap to 5th slider as transition to next part
  3. 01:03:445 (1,2) - you can hear the emphasis isn't on groups of 3 here anymore (stop at 01:03:445 - ) so slider of 2 + 2 + 2 or 4 + 2 or smth like that would make more sense. Tho it's not like you can't just have it this way too
    they are not group indeed, but just because this, many rhythm would fit here imo. not only 222 or 42, 33 is also fine imo
  4. 01:05:945 (3) - would NC this instead, 01:05:588 (1,2) - to the previous combo since here is where new stuff starts. Similar case earlier at 00:44:159 (1,2,3) - but there the gap to the last objects was so large that it wouldn't necessarily make sense.
  5. similarly to last diff, last pattern needs work here too. It makes no sense emphasis-wise especially when you apply the correct 3/4 signature. I presume it will be the same case in every diff especially now that the density is increasing. I won't mention them, just change stuff along the timing change so they are more relevant.
    same here as before, I just did the same thing at the beginning
  6. Also for this diff I kinda felt with your rhythmical choices that they were more like Hard diff stuff instead of Normal, but hey if it's not deemed "hard" by the system I guess it works then.
    the rhythm is near a Hard diff, but the movement is pretty easy. in overall, it's a usual Normal imo
Hard
  1. 00:05:945 (2) - NC this, not the last one
    this is more logical but not looks good imo.. I mean, different color stacking looks a bit werid
  2. 00:14:516 (1,3) - would be possible to blanket these and then stack 00:14:159 (5,4) - for solid structure here
    I didn't think about blanket here. due to the spacing, if I use blanket here, the direction would change much more faster, make the flow worse imo
  3. 00:21:659 (1,3) - would blanket this too
    same as above
  4. 00:25:409 (4) - I don't hear anything to justify triple. This way it also has the somewhat strong sound at 00:25:588 - in the slider end
    this is just custom triples, they didn't follow anything, they just make the rhythm fit the song, and not boring
  5. 00:28:445 (4,1) - fix blanket
    the current blanket is already fine imo
  6. 00:44:516 (1,2) - since instruments don't have triples, I presume you are following the vocals here. Vocal "triples" however are located at the end of the beats, 1/2 later than what you currently have. You can hear how they have longer sounds at the beginning of the beats and then "triples" in the end.
    sorry I can't understand this mod correctly.. I mainly followed the vocal here, but the vocal here is very complex to this diff, so I just leave somewhere empty without any regular pattern
  7. 00:45:855 (1) - 1/4 later, listen to with slowed down speed. Also makes it play less confusingly that way too (pls don't have it begin on blue tick)
    I just following vocal here, starting slider at 1/4 beat is not hard for a Hard diff imo
  8. 01:03:445 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - same as in earlier diff. It's not really emphasised as groups of 3 anymore. I won't mention this in the later diffs anymore either, just change if you deem it so. (change in one = change in all, keep it consistent)
    same as before here
  9. 01:18:088 (4,5) - making the angle little larger would make it look better. You see how currently the curve is stronger than the angle and thus 01:18:445 (5) - is as if digging to the body of 01:18:088 (4) - line em up
    umm, I didn't do triangle here..
Insane
  1. 00:27:373 (3) - change NC to this
  2. 01:05:945 (3) - ^
    same reason as before
  3. 01:22:373 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1) - uh...First of all I wouldn't include this kind of stuff on this diff anyways. This stuff is for the top diff. For that matter, needs NC at 01:22:373 (5) - and then 01:22:730 (9) - for the jump. Also doesn't look too good, what's up with that 01:22:998 (12,1) - has it stacked there?
    I would make this part much easier if more ppl mentioned same thing here
Tenshi
  1. looks like you are going really ham. First of all I would really make sure that you ain't just overmapping, so check if you have relevant sounds for everythin you map. Otherwise it's just gonna look like a mess and play that way too. Also if you want to use jumpstreams, perhaps NC new part of it, and think if the sound really justifies that kind of patterning.
    not sure about this, I can't understand this one correctly either. I just use some hard and unusual pattern to make this diff, it won't be comfortable to play for sure. cuz I did it on purpose to fit the song(don't you think the song is nice but sounds mess at somewhere?)
  2. 00:27:373 (2) - the usual NC drill I guess
  3. 01:10:230 (3) - ^
    same as Insane here
  4. Didn't nazi too much on visuals here (or in the Insane) cuz I think these need more work without it too (tbh Insane was mostly decently clean). As in, I'm not too convinced all these 1/4 and the way you have patterned them make too much sense.
    those custom 1/4 is fine imo. they might following nothing but it doesn't mean that they didn't fit the song
  5. Finally, what's up with copying patterns from the Insane? Okay, similar patterns are fine enough, since the music is similar. Patterns like 00:44:159 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - in Insane vs 00:44:159 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11) - in Tenshi scrape through my radar, but then the next phrase is exactly the same except the jumpstreams in Tenshi, more like the whole section all till the chorus is very similar for example. And finally 01:22:373 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1) - these patterns in both. Like, jumpstream like that shouldn't be in Insane anyways imo. If you want to have Extra here, recycling Insane this much doesn't make too much sense to me
    in fact I copied from Tenshi to Insane.. I made Tenshi first and did a lot similar staff in Insane diff. I just want to make my set looks like a regular entirety. every diff looks totally different is not a good way imo
Good luck!
thanks for modding anyway :3
Xayler
Heya, from my queue.

Normal
  1. I followed a bit your using of stacks and I'd say that 00:47:730 (2,3,4) - this one would play better as a slider+slider, as for example 00:44:159 (1,2,3) - this one or 00:49:516 (7,8,9,10) - these have loud beats, so they fit indeed. If you decide to change it then I'd change others also as the 2nd circle doesn't have the loud beat.
  2. 00:53:088 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - I find that this may be really hard to play for a normal difficulty. Because of the last stack with the slider to be exact, the new combo what starts from 00:55:945 (1) - here may basically bring in a sliderbreak due to the intensity of 1/2 notes. I'd put there maybe some repeat sliders or something as this constant tapping is really hard for newbies.
  3. 01:19:516 (5) - I'd move this circle a bit above and left, it plays better and blankets with 01:18:445 (3) - this slider.

Hard
  1. 00:20:945 (3) - This slider doesn't really need a repeat imo, as even at the repeating place (where the slider ends) there isn't any sound.
  2. 01:03:445 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - I don't get these triples here, they shouldn't be stacked at all as you go intenser and intenser with the movements and you gradually remove the stacks like 01:00:409 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - here. They should be just spaced imo with maybe some triangles (2nd triangle with a bit higher spacing). My triangle idea basically: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7325032 (not very polished, but just the idea).
Evil_Twilight
沒事,經過留個名而已
Monstrata
Tenshi

00:10:498 (2,3,4,5) - This rhythm really confused me. Not really sure what you're following here at all. There's a vocal on 00:10:677 - , but there doesn't seem to be anything landing on the red tick 00:10:766 - or on 00:10:498 (2) - . Please reconsider this rhythm.
00:53:088 (1,2,3,4,5) - Doublets would be more interesting here imo. This rhythm is too standard and normal lol. Vocals suggest a different rhythm.
01:04:516 (1,2,3,4) - This sounds more like 1/3 to me. Actually it sounds like a mix of both, but if I were playing this I would expect a 1/3 rhythm rather than a 1/4. Feel free to disagree here though.
01:08:088 (4,5,6,7,8) - Really not a fan of linear patterns like this. It's really hard to snap to linear flows because of a lack of angle change.
01:09:159 (2) - 01:14:873 (2) - You could try hitsounding the head/tail with like a soft-whistle or something for the vocals. The tail especially, since there's still a strong vocal.
01:16:838 (5) - I think the slider-end is stronger and deserves to be clicked.

Interesting use of 1/4 jumps. I'm currently experimenting on stuff like 00:14:516 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - and the way you arrange them they could definitely work. Just one thing to be aware of, when you do stacks like this, the visual spacing can end up being different from how it looks in editor.
As you can see, the two stacks are close together, but circle 9 seems farther apart from the pattern due to the stacking mechanic.

[]

I will mod the other diffs asap. Give me like another 24 hours, I'm finally on school break xD.
Monstrata
Insane

00:06:302 (2,3) - This sounds better as a 1/2 slider imo. I don't think the red tick really supports a second click here.
00:10:409 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - This rhythm makes a lot more sense compared to Extra.
00:12:730 (7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - Be careful of the stacking mechanic here. Some patterns are overlapping unnecessarily. Enable stacking and make sure this visual arrangement is actually what you intended.
00:53:088 (1,2,3,4,5) - I guess this is optional, but I would still follow doublet rhythm here since this Insane still uses some more complex blue-tick rhythms. Feel free to disagree here though.
01:20:230 (1,2,3,4) - Something interesting you can do with a pattern like this is integrate combo color hax to correspond with the slow/fast slider. For example, I used light blue for the slower slider, and red for the faster slider. That way the color can make it seem like two combo's rather than typical NC spam. If you like this idea, feel free to apply it to other diffs.

Curisu's Hyper

00:30:409 (2,3) - This blanket is pretty off.
00:53:088 (1,2) - This is a huge jump. I really think you need to make this smaller because its really too big compared to the other jumps in this diff. The note you are jumping to isn't a really distinguished note anyways, so it shouldn't deserve such emphasis.
01:20:230 (1,2,1,2) - Is there a way you can arrange this so the spacing increases instead of decreases? Right now 01:20:230 (1,2) - is a bigger jump. The pitch is increasing here so imo the jumps should get bigger to match intensity.

Hard

Fine!

Normal

00:31:480 (4,5) - This rhythm felt a bit questionable to me. Actually this whole combo felt like too much switching from red-tick rhythms to white tick rhythm back to red tick. I think less polarity shift would be better for players of this level. Simple solution is using a 1/1 slider here:

Overall, this Normal contains some very dense 1/2 rhythm sections. I feel it's just too dense right now, and creates an unnecessary difficulty spike when compared to the Easy. The two sections I feel need some trimming are:
00:53:088 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Sections like this could be trimmed down a bit. There's just too much consecutive 1/2 rhythm. Use some more 1/1 gaps here, some of the 1/2 sliders could just be circles.
00:58:802 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3) - Here too. Instead of 1/2 repeat sliders, you could use 1/1 sliders too.

Easy

00:37:730 (3,4,5) - This arrangement is really confusing. First you have spacing, then a stack. Also, the stacking mechanic creates an unnecessary overlap. I would just space these all out. This is just confusing for beginners ;c

Beginner

Fine!

[]

I suppose my main concern is the rhythm density in Normal. If you can address that, then I can help with pushing this set forward.
Topic Starter
wcx19911123
Monstrata

Monstrata wrote:

Tenshi

00:10:498 (2,3,4,5) - This rhythm really confused me. Not really sure what you're following here at all. There's a vocal on 00:10:677 - , but there doesn't seem to be anything landing on the red tick 00:10:766 - or on 00:10:498 (2) - . Please reconsider this rhythm.
I'm mainly following drums at this part. this sliders are transition to a complex rhythm part, so I just start them at drum beats
00:53:088 (1,2,3,4,5) - Doublets would be more interesting here imo. This rhythm is too standard and normal lol. Vocals suggest a different rhythm.
nice idea :3
01:04:516 (1,2,3,4) - This sounds more like 1/3 to me. Actually it sounds like a mix of both, but if I were playing this I would expect a 1/3 rhythm rather than a 1/4. Feel free to disagree here though.
I listened here several times with low speed carefully, and I'm sure it's 1/4 beat..
01:08:088 (4,5,6,7,8) - Really not a fan of linear patterns like this. It's really hard to snap to linear flows because of a lack of angle change.
I do know straight patterns are not good for a part of players indeed, so I just used regular spacing instead of jumping for them to mitigate the bad affect. it's fine in overall imo
01:09:159 (2) - 01:14:873 (2) - You could try hitsounding the head/tail with like a soft-whistle or something for the vocals. The tail especially, since there's still a strong vocal.
added on tail to all my own diffs
01:16:838 (5) - I think the slider-end is stronger and deserves to be clicked.
I just used same rhythm as 01:11:123 - , the cheer is something like background sound, that's why I didn't follow it preferentially

Interesting use of 1/4 jumps. I'm currently experimenting on stuff like 00:14:516 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - and the way you arrange them they could definitely work. Just one thing to be aware of, when you do stacks like this, the visual spacing can end up being different from how it looks in editor.

As you can see, the two stacks are close together, but circle 9 seems farther apart from the pattern due to the stacking mechanic.
adjusted placement a bit to solve it

Insane

00:06:302 (2,3) - This sounds better as a 1/2 slider imo. I don't think the red tick really supports a second click here.
I did same thing as 00:03:623 - . I just think all sliders are a bit too boring, so I added a bit more circles at somewhere not that unexpected
00:10:409 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - This rhythm makes a lot more sense compared to Extra.
might because I followed more piano here rather than the ex diff :3
00:12:730 (7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - Be careful of the stacking mechanic here. Some patterns are overlapping unnecessarily. Enable stacking and make sure this visual arrangement is actually what you intended.
fixed spacing to solve this
00:53:088 (1,2,3,4,5) - I guess this is optional, but I would still follow doublet rhythm here since this Insane still uses some more complex blue-tick rhythms. Feel free to disagree here though.
01:20:230 (1,2,3,4) - Something interesting you can do with a pattern like this is integrate combo color hax to correspond with the slow/fast slider. For example, I used light blue for the slower slider, and red for the faster slider. That way the color can make it seem like two combo's rather than typical NC spam. If you like this idea, feel free to apply it to other diffs.
the speed changing is not big, and it fits the vocal. I think it's not unexpected to read even without color's help

Hard

Fine!

Normal

00:31:480 (4,5) - This rhythm felt a bit questionable to me. Actually this whole combo felt like too much switching from red-tick rhythms to white tick rhythm back to red tick. I think less polarity shift would be better for players of this level. Simple solution is using a 1/1 slider here:

Overall, this Normal contains some very dense 1/2 rhythm sections. I feel it's just too dense right now, and creates an unnecessary difficulty spike when compared to the Easy. The two sections I feel need some trimming are:
00:53:088 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Sections like this could be trimmed down a bit. There's just too much consecutive 1/2 rhythm. Use some more 1/1 gaps here, some of the 1/2 sliders could just be circles.
00:58:802 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3) - Here too. Instead of 1/2 repeat sliders, you could use 1/1 sliders too.
I did many changes to this diff to make the rhythm much more simpler, including all above

Easy

00:37:730 (3,4,5) - This arrangement is really confusing. First you have spacing, then a stack. Also, the stacking mechanic creates an unnecessary overlap. I would just space these all out. This is just confusing for beginners ;c
fixed

Beginner

Fine!

[]

I suppose my main concern is the rhythm density in Normal. If you can address that, then I can help with pushing this set forward.
thanks for modding :3
updated all my own diffs
Invertable
Hi NM from our queue The Black Vultures

I'l try my best to mod this

Insane diff
  • 00:04:338 (1) - Over here you are ignoring the strong sound completly just make 2 sliders and ephasize that Important sound with a circle and NC http://prntscr.com/ean7vj

    00:05:588 (4) - Cant hear any sound on this beat and if you want that part to be mapped put a slider instead of circle 00:05:230 (3) - since slider ends are not that big of an emphasize and it will be much more easier to play it like that

    00:10:588 (3,4,7,8) - same sounds you stack these 00:10:588 (3,4) - why u didn t stack them too 00:11:302 (7,8) - litterally on the whole map this is the only place you put such big DS on a double idk if you are epmhasizing anything but i can t find that thing

    00:12:998 (1,2) - These should not be stacked at its hard to read even for me plus NC on a blue tick really what are you starting with that NC

    00:14:248 - Why is this not mapped when you can clearly hear a piano sound on that blue tick like on all the other before that and instead of reverse slider

    00:13:980 (9) - I would but just 1/4 slider and a circle on important white tick http://prntscr.com/eanc0o

    00:14:516 (1) - NC

    00:13:980 (9,1) - Remove NC

    00:24:338 (5) - Again circle on no sound. Replace 00:24:159 (4) - with a 1/2 slider. Just like you did here 00:28:088 (5,6)

    00:35:230 (4) - One slider doesn't fit here cause sliders have emphasize on the slider heads and you can hear that on the end of that slider is the exactly the
    same sound as on the slider head. Make 2 1/2 sliders to epmhasize that important sound. http://prntscr.com/eane36

    00:44:516 (5) - NC

    00:45:855 (1) - Remove Combo

    00:45:945 (2) - NC

    01:21:748 (2) - This is just not right you went ham on every part that could have any stream in it and in this part where you could put the stream since its kiai part and the music is really intense you put just a slider idk its undermapped for me

    01:22:373 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - Jump stream on 4*. You could just change the direction of the stream it would be enough emphasize there http://prntscr.com/ean6a2 something like this if you will leave it as it is just NC this one 01:22:730 (1)


Tenshi diff
  • 00:17:998 (5,6,7) - This is overmapped its not even that intense lower the jumps or just put a slider instead of 00:18:177 (6,7)

    00:28:802 (1,4) - You can stack these and blanket these 00:28:802 (1,3)

    00:44:516 (5) - NC

    00:45:855 (1,2) - Switch NC

    00:52:730 (7,8) - Slider instead of circles or just make like you did on the exactly the same sound here 00:52:016 (3,4)

    01:22:373 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - Really bad flow point first stream into second cause this is really hard to hit or put 01:22:730 (9,10,11,12,1) - above them http://prntscr.com/eank1s

Ok that is it from me i tried to be nazi as much as i could hopefully it will be somewhat helpful and GL with the map! :D
Curisu
About the 00:44:516 ~ 00:48:802 section - Keep. This section has been already simplified for several times and I do not find it necessary to be changed.

Nao Tomori wrote:

[hyper]

00:25:230 - you could do the sharp thingy for the devil part imo Already using different sv to presenting devil part

00:27:373 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - ugh can you spread this out more, it looks better like that imo. meh

00:44:516 - i think the spacing in this section is also very low, making it all overlap makes it annoying to play and read imo. please spread stuff out a bit. ^

01:13:355 - only double used in the entire map? o.o 01:07:641

01:23:088 (1,2,3,4,5) - this is very dense mapping considering that all the instruments more or less stopped, better to copy what the two higher diffs did imo. wcx and I didn't following the same logic thus I donno this is a good idea

-Sepia- wrote:

i see no point for the sligth bend in sliders like this 00:05:230 (4) - since just about all the diffs use a lot of straight sliders Personal mapping style
00:16:570 (2) - doesnt feel right with the lack of doubles throughout the map to support it loosely following the piano cuz the piano itself is off
00:49:695 (4,5) - would seem better if it was just back and forth jumps like 00:55:230 (3,4,5,6) - nope
00:53:088 (1,2) - jump is way too much ok rearranged cuz it seems too large indeed
01:20:588 (2,1) - and 01:19:873 (6,1) - both should be stacked or not stacked? inconsistency for being in different pitch

TheKingHenry wrote:

  1. 00:15:230 (3,4,5) - with patterns like this before here, 00:16:570 (2,3) - this just doesn't work. It's definitely gonna end up read as 1/2 lol umm imo distinguishable
  2. 00:26:302 (7,8) - arrange slightly so that 8 doesn't dig towards 7 (you see what's happening)
  3. 00:44:516 - this section is kinda questionable imo, lots of 1/4 mapped to barely audible sounds or sounds that don't necessarily even exist. How it's arranged tho makes sense and thus it's not bad to play. Dunno
  4. 00:49:159 (2,3,4,5,6,1) - the spacing inconsistensies are real here. I see your patterning idea here, but musically it doesn't make too much sense and due no support from music it doesn't play that well either and can be confusing I'm using 4 increasing spacing to enforce those circles and a sudden decreased spacing to make strong contrast. Dunno this one have zero support from music but making sense imo
  5. 00:55:230 (3,4,5,6,1) - as if better version of the above ^ except 00:55:588 (5,6,1) - this transition is suddenly almost straight line, very smooth angle compared to the sharp ones before. Doesn't play that well, especially as you then stop it at 00:55:945 (1) - ; I would just continue with sharps. Perhaps just ctrl+h 00:55:945 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - and then slightly move them so it works with DS and stuff. Also for making strong comparison between two section(especially the stop at 55.945)
  6. 01:15:409 (3,4,5,1,2,3) - about the same visual spacing for different rhythms 0.1x ds difference is ok imo

Monstrata wrote:

Curisu's Hyper

00:30:409 (2,3) - This blanket is pretty off. ok
00:53:088 (1,2) - This is a huge jump. I really think you need to make this smaller because its really too big compared to the other jumps in this diff. The note you are jumping to isn't a really distinguished note anyways, so it shouldn't deserve such emphasis. rearranged
01:20:230 (1,2,1,2) - Is there a way you can arrange this so the spacing increases instead of decreases? Right now 01:20:230 (1,2) - is a bigger jump. The pitch is increasing here so imo the jumps should get bigger to match intensity. done
Thanks for modding :)
Topic Starter
wcx19911123
Invertable

Invertable wrote:

Hi NM from our queue The Black Vultures

I'l try my best to mod this

SPOILER
  • 00:04:338 (1) - Over here you are ignoring the strong sound completly just make 2 sliders and ephasize that Important sound with a circle and NC http://prntscr.com/ean7vj
    I follow the vocal sound at 00:04:338 - and 00:04:695 - here

    00:05:588 (4) - Cant hear any sound on this beat and if you want that part to be mapped put a slider instead of circle 00:05:230 (3) - since slider ends are not that big of an emphasize and it will be much more easier to play it like that
    I follow nothing here, just for more comfortable to play or it would be a big gap while playing

    00:10:588 (3,4,7,8) - same sounds you stack these 00:10:588 (3,4) - why u didn t stack them too 00:11:302 (7,8) - litterally on the whole map this is the only place you put such big DS on a double idk if you are epmhasizing anything but i can t find that thing
    the second object is 1/2 slider, it's not that hard to play compare with stacked circle+1/4 slider. I did it only here because I didn't use circle+1/2 slider later

    00:12:998 (1,2) - These should not be stacked at its hard to read even for me plus NC on a blue tick really what are you starting with that NC
    the spacing from the previous slider is easy to tell that it's a 1/4 time gap imo

    00:14:248 - Why is this not mapped when you can clearly hear a piano sound on that blue tick like on all the other before that and instead of reverse slider
    I mainly follow the piano here, so empty here

    00:13:980 (9) - I would but just 1/4 slider and a circle on important white tick http://prntscr.com/eanc0o
    reverse slider end also fit here imo

    00:14:516 (1) - NC

    00:13:980 (9,1) - Remove NC
    I don't really like different color stacked together.. it won't help to read, but looks a bit werid

    00:24:338 (5) - Again circle on no sound. Replace 00:24:159 (4) - with a 1/2 slider. Just like you did here 00:28:088 (5,6)
    same reason as before here

    00:35:230 (4) - One slider doesn't fit here cause sliders have emphasize on the slider heads and you can hear that on the end of that slider is the exactly the
    same sound as on the slider head. Make 2 1/2 sliders to epmhasize that important sound. http://prntscr.com/eane36
    the vocal here is a long voice, so I used long slider to follow it. 1/2 is also a way but I think 1/2 everywhere would be a bit boring

    00:44:516 (5) - NC

    00:45:855 (1) - Remove Combo

    00:45:945 (2) - NC
    same reason as before here

    01:21:748 (2) - This is just not right you went ham on every part that could have any stream in it and in this part where you could put the stream since its kiai part and the music is really intense you put just a slider idk its undermapped for me
    adjusted it in another way

    01:22:373 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - Jump stream on 4*. You could just change the direction of the stream it would be enough emphasize there http://prntscr.com/ean6a2 something like this if you will leave it as it is just NC this one 01:22:730 (1)
    fixed


SPOILER
  • 00:17:998 (5,6,7) - This is overmapped its not even that intense lower the jumps or just put a slider instead of 00:18:177 (6,7)
    this pattern is not hard imo(compare with stacked and jumping steam).

    00:28:802 (1,4) - You can stack these and blanket these 00:28:802 (1,3)
    the current pattern is also fine imo(the flow is hard to control if I did what you suggested)

    00:44:516 (5) - NC

    00:45:855 (1,2) - Switch NC

    00:52:730 (7,8) - Slider instead of circles or just make like you did on the exactly the same sound here 00:52:016 (3,4)
    I just did it in polygon every 4 vocal(the number of edge is reducing)

    01:22:373 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - Really bad flow point first stream into second cause this is really hard to hit or put 01:22:730 (9,10,11,12,1) - above them http://prntscr.com/eank1s
    the flow is fine imo..(compare with the 4 1/4 sliders before)

Ok that is it from me i tried to be nazi as much as i could hopefully it will be somewhat helpful and GL with the map! :D
fixed something, thanks for modding :3
please pm me if you want a full mod reply, I'll do it assp if you want(lazy to reply everyone, sorry)

fixed a bit in Insane's end
changed bg in Hyper diff
all diffs updated
Monstrata
Okay, looks good now. Bubbled! Good luck~
Zero__wind
还缺人吗 是不是已经找好人点图了
Topic Starter
wcx19911123

Zero__wind wrote:

还缺人吗 是不是已经找好人点图了
找了,但是我担心咕咕 o.o..
Rizia
Tenshi
00:34:873 - 話說這邊clap沒覆蓋到不會奇怪嗎
Topic Starter
wcx19911123

Rizia wrote:

Tenshi
00:34:873 - 話說這邊clap沒覆蓋到不會奇怪嗎
我觉得还行吧,这里太密不是很好
F D Flourite

wcx19911123 wrote:

Zero__wind wrote:

还缺人吗 是不是已经找好人点图了
找了,但是我担心咕咕 o.o..
你找了多少人啊爷爷
Sonnyc
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/556393 don't forget this still qualified in case someone plans a qualify!
Seijiro
<.<

Let me take a look for a bit...
EDIT: actually, I have to pop this. It's not ready at all, sorry.

Tenshi


  1. 00:00:231 (1) - unsnapped :P
    To be more accurate, it should start from 00:00:320 - , which is the point where those bells start playing. Use 25% playback rate and see yourself
  2. 00:04:338 (1,2,3,4) - maybe this is your way to do aesthetics, but I wanted to understand what's the meaning of this entire pattern.
    Currently, these shapes seem fairly random to me. Maybe I'm missing something here?
  3. 00:05:945 (1,2,3,4) - well, umh... let's say that I still don't get the order used for this pattern either. They seem random jumps, what's happening? D:
  4. 00:03:088 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2) - this is just the first part, but there are other similar ones ahead.
    I find the general SV, note density and spacing a bit too high considering the calm part. I'm not saying this because I dislike high spacing or stuff like that, but because if I compare this section to 00:24:516 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - I can't notice any difference in fact of song expression.
  5. same thing happens between 00:21:659 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - and again 00:24:516 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - . These sections clearly have a different tone, the singer changes and the theme of the entire song is "good vs evil"so I would expect some sort of change into your map to make that stand out, yet there is nothing of the sort D:
    The part where devils sing is rather fine, I'd say, but the angel parts are too dense, too intense, too spaced.
    If you were wondering: no, using soft curves for the angel parts and edgy ones for the devil parts doesn't do a thing in that regard, It is not enough of a change.
  6. 00:12:730 (9,10,1) - trust me that barely no one will be able to anticipate such a pattern. When you have a circle like that after a slider you'd expect a 1/4 snap between slider and circle and then a short 1/2 break to the next object.
    The alternative would be to move the circle on top of the second slider, since you can use slider leniency from the first slider to jump on it even if it is spaced. Moreover you get to see the object clearly and not hidden behind something else.
    Conclusion: move the circle on the second slider for the sake of playability and reading.
  7. 00:13:088 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - since I couldn't find a fixed rule for these I ask you once again: how did you place these? What rules are they following? Am I not hearing something that you considered to place them? etc... (referring to sliders for the most part)
  8. 00:14:516 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - this rhythm is misleading. The reason I say this is because I thought you were following piano (you know... you mapped 00:13:088 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - on piano, so...) but the piano has beats only at 00:14:516 - 00:14:695 - 00:14:873 - 00:14:963 - ?.?
    Really, this is confusing, what are you following there and why? .-.
  9. On a side note: take that last stream with the jump in the middle. How you use it above ^and how you use it for 00:18:802 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - is completely different.
    If I listen to 00:18:802 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - , it makes sense to have such a pattern. It's a bit hard due to the jump in the middle, but it fits with the music.
    If I listen to 00:14:516 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - I can't understand what you're following, as I already said, and moreover it doesn't seem to fit with any rhythm there .-.
  10. 00:20:230 (1,2,3) - I guess you still need practice on choosing the right rhythm, because it seems a common thing on your map to put different sounds into the same combo just because they look interesting.
    In this case the repeat slider is really spammy, since 1 and 2 are focused on the drum, while 3 is focused on... actually, on nothing. There is no instrument doing such a fast rhythm there, why did you place it? D:
    Just a circle at 00:20:945 - works 5 times better, trust me.
  11. 00:29:963 (5) - again, similar stuff ^. You might as well delete this since it's just a useless overmap D:
    I mean, I can accept it if supported by a reason, but the fact I can't even see a glimpse of such reason makes me wonder if you had any at all when placing it :roll:
  12. Let's now take 00:50:230 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this giant part.
    In this part of the song the singers switch place every half of a measure (2 white ticks). As such, you decided to map them differently each time they switched, but this turned out to ruin the map imo.
    I can understand they switch, but switching pattern every time creates confusion and says "goodbye"to structure.
    I would have rather used again couples, like angel/devil or simply since their lyrics are actually connected, to separate the first 2 singers from the other 2. Just don't change pattern that often, because it feels like you didn't have the slightest idea of what you were doing :/
    In particular 00:52:016 (3,4) - this passage and 00:52:552 (6,7,8) - play really awkward in gameplay due to the short spacing that is not expected at all.
  13. 00:53:088 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - again, you don't follow the cool drum using 1/2 beats, nor the vocals, since I saw you skipped the right jump for 00:53:891 - which should have been a slider tail as for 00:53:177 (2) -
  14. 01:03:445 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - you probably don't realize how hard and also inconsistent with the rest this pattern his.
    The wide angle jumps are hard to play by nature, since well... there is geometry involved (I won't go in details, but the short story is "sharp angles are easier than wide angles") and the whole pattern being a giant hexagon throws you off a little considering you didn't do any similar things before.
    (I can agree that 00:59:873 (7,8,9,1,2,3) - this stuff may be a sort of introduction to the hexagon, but it's not quite there yet imo)
  15. 01:09:159 (2) - rhythm again, this time you ignore the vocals being equal here.
    A slider usually tells the player "the beat on my head is strong, while the beat on my tail is weaker in comparison", but in this case intensity for both beats are equal and that is not so great :/
    2 circles work better.
  16. 01:11:123 (5) - same ^
  17. 01:16:838 (5) - ^
  18. 01:14:873 (2) - ^
  19. 01:20:230 (1,2,3,4) - and again these crazy shapes. I mean, alright, it may be your style, but I can't help myself and not tell you how inconsistent they are D:
  20. 01:22:998 (12,1) - ugh, this is really ugly to be seen and partly to be played too. You might as well add another jump, although I dislike such technique by default.
  21. 01:23:088 (1,2) - just a minor detail: using the same shape gives a totally different feeling, and that's because they have an additional reason to be as they are (they share the same shape).
    I won't go in details here on how to improve structure or what exactly this concept is, but I suggest you check my userpage. You'll find a lesson I did for my mentees time ago that would help you understand better what I mean here.

________________



As a general thing: having a Beginner and a Hyper diff is pretty pointless in this set imo. If you remove them gaps are still fine and linear, which makes me wonder "why did you add them to begin with?"

Anyway, I'll post this for now and edit later with the rest of the diffs.
I gave a quick look at Insane and Hyper and... well, it's more or less the same things I mentioned here so this set is definitely not ready, sorry.
I just need sleep right now. I'll write the rest soon enough.
Topic Starter
wcx19911123
MrSergio

MrSergio wrote:

<.<

Let me take a look for a bit...
EDIT: actually, I have to pop this. It's not ready at all, sorry.

Tenshi


  1. 00:00:231 (1) - unsnapped :P
    To be more accurate, it should start from 00:00:320 - , which is the point where those bells start playing. Use 25% playback rate and see yourself
    might fix this assp when rest mod came out
  2. 00:04:338 (1,2,3,4) - maybe this is your way to do aesthetics, but I wanted to understand what's the meaning of this entire pattern.
    Currently, these shapes seem fairly random to me. Maybe I'm missing something here?
    I think it's fine here to use any shape imo, just follow the vocal thrill, I didn't to it always though
  3. 00:05:945 (1,2,3,4) - well, umh... let's say that I still don't get the order used for this pattern either. They seem random jumps, what's happening? D:
    they are not random at all.. the spacing is reducing..
  4. 00:03:088 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2) - this is just the first part, but there are other similar ones ahead.
    I find the general SV, note density and spacing a bit too high considering the calm part. I'm not saying this because I dislike high spacing or stuff like that, but because if I compare this section to 00:24:516 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - I can't notice any difference in fact of song expression.
    I don't like to do really simple pattern as a highest diff even in a calm part. but if you can play it you'll realize that this pattern is much more easier to play compare with the one you mentioned. I don't really want to map an easy part here to make this part play the same as a hard diff. it's not good to make difficulty all the same across all the parts, but if we made a big difficulty gap within a single diff, this gap would make bad sense to the overall feeling imo
  5. same thing happens between 00:21:659 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - and again 00:24:516 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - . These sections clearly have a different tone, the singer changes and the theme of the entire song is "good vs evil"so I would expect some sort of change into your map to make that stand out, yet there is nothing of the sort D:
    The part where devils sing is rather fine, I'd say, but the angel parts are too dense, too intense, too spaced.
    If you were wondering: no, using soft curves for the angel parts and edgy ones for the devil parts doesn't do a thing in that regard, It is not enough of a change.
    as I siad before, I didn't want to make a huge difficulty gap in a single diff, actually I didn't make any big difference of difficulty in these angel-devil parts. I just used different slider shapes and different hitsounding to fit this. I don't think fit the song with huge difficulty difference is a good thing only because the vocal style is changing without any changing of the vocal's density
  6. 00:12:730 (9,10,1) - trust me that barely no one will be able to anticipate such a pattern. When you have a circle like that after a slider you'd expect a 1/4 snap between slider and circle and then a short 1/2 break to the next object.
    The alternative would be to move the circle on top of the second slider, since you can use slider leniency from the first slider to jump on it even if it is spaced. Moreover you get to see the object clearly and not hidden behind something else.
    Conclusion: move the circle on the second slider for the sake of playability and reading.
    I just want to make a jump to 00:13:088 - here. I think it fits the song, and the pattern is pretty easier to read for anyone who would like to play this diff. this 1/4 jump after the stack is totally fine imo
  7. 00:13:088 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - since I couldn't find a fixed rule for these I ask you once again: how did you place these? What rules are they following? Am I not hearing something that you considered to place them? etc... (referring to sliders for the most part)
    did you hear the mixed mess vocal and piano in the music? I'm following both of them here. in fact their sounds are not on the beat 100% accurately, so I just put full of 1/4s to do this. the later pattern(00:13:802 (5,6,7,8,9) - ) I did here is to follow some heavy beats around with slider head
  8. 00:14:516 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - this rhythm is misleading. The reason I say this is because I thought you were following piano (you know... you mapped 00:13:088 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - on piano, so...) but the piano has beats only at 00:14:516 - 00:14:695 - 00:14:873 - 00:14:963 - ?.?
    Really, this is confusing, what are you following there and why? .-.
    I'm follow both of the vocal and piano in this part. some of them are not on the beat accurately. so I just use the similar density pattern(1/4) to fit them
  9. On a side note: take that last stream with the jump in the middle. How you use it above ^and how you use it for 00:18:802 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - is completely different.
    If I listen to 00:18:802 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - , it makes sense to have such a pattern. It's a bit hard due to the jump in the middle, but it fits with the music.
    If I listen to 00:14:516 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - I can't understand what you're following, as I already said, and moreover it doesn't seem to fit with any rhythm there .-.
    the stacked steam is following vocal, piano or nothing here. this part in the music is pretty mess and mixed. it's impossible to follow the song accurately with simple objects. however, my opinion to map is that following the song accurately is not equals to fitting the song well. this is the reason you can see why some ppl would do 1/4 triples to following nothing. we can't follow everything in the music accurately, on the other hand, we don't need to forbidden to follow nothing or follow a mess with simple but density patterns
    return to this case, everone would here the song is mess and density here, I don't see any reason why 1/4 steam won't fit it
  10. 00:20:230 (1,2,3) - I guess you still need practice on choosing the right rhythm, because it seems a common thing on your map to put different sounds into the same combo just because they look interesting.
    In this case the repeat slider is really spammy, since 1 and 2 are focused on the drum, while 3 is focused on... actually, on nothing. There is no instrument doing such a fast rhythm there, why did you place it? D:
    Just a circle at 00:20:945 - works 5 times better, trust me.
    could you please listen to the music carefully..? the vocal is exactly visible at 00:21:391 - and 00:21:480 - . other than that, I switching the tracks I following suddenly is to make a transition here to warn players that next part would be different. however I did it 5 times in lower diff cuz only high level players can realize the meaning of switching tracks imo
  11. 00:29:963 (5) - again, similar stuff ^. You might as well delete this since it's just a useless overmap D:
    I mean, I can accept it if supported by a reason, but the fact I can't even see a glimpse of such reason makes me wonder if you had any at all when placing it :roll:
    the slider is following the laugh. I think this is an enough reason
  12. Let's now take 00:50:230 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this giant part.
    In this part of the song the singers switch place every half of a measure (2 white ticks). As such, you decided to map them differently each time they switched, but this turned out to ruin the map imo.
    I can understand they switch, but switching pattern every time creates confusion and says "goodbye"to structure.
    I would have rather used again couples, like angel/devil or simply since their lyrics are actually connected, to separate the first 2 singers from the other 2. Just don't change pattern that often, because it feels like you didn't have the slightest idea of what you were doing :/
    In particular 00:52:016 (3,4) - this passage and 00:52:552 (6,7,8) - play really awkward in gameplay due to the short spacing that is not expected at all.
    I follow vocal here, and changed the pattern to each vocalist. the law of changing is pretty obviously here: I reduced the edges of every polygon
  13. 00:53:088 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - again, you don't follow the cool drum using 1/2 beats, nor the vocals, since I saw you skipped the right jump for 00:53:891 - which should have been a slider tail as for 00:53:177 (2) -
    I'm following mainly vocal here. did you noticed that 00:53:177 - has vocal but 00:53:891 - has not? that's the reason why this 2 parts are different
  14. 01:03:445 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - you probably don't realize how hard and also inconsistent with the rest this pattern his.
    The wide angle jumps are hard to play by nature, since well... there is geometry involved (I won't go in details, but the short story is "sharp angles are easier than wide angles") and the whole pattern being a giant hexagon throws you off a little considering you didn't do any similar things before.
    (I can agree that 00:59:873 (7,8,9,1,2,3) - this stuff may be a sort of introduction to the hexagon, but it's not quite there yet imo)
    you have a right saying here now, wide angle is harder than sharp angles. but this is only a part of factors of difficulty. spacing, direction of moving, object types maybe more, lots of things effect the difficulty together. in this case, I used small spacing here with wide angles. I'm pretty sure this hexagon is mush easier than lots of patterns in this diff
  15. 01:09:159 (2) - rhythm again, this time you ignore the vocals being equal here.
    A slider usually tells the player "the beat on my head is strong, while the beat on my tail is weaker in comparison", but in this case intensity for both beats are equal and that is not so great :/
    2 circles work better.
    I following here with a single long slider is because there's nothing besides the vocal(other parts between it is vocal+drums mixed), I'm not following the vocal here, in fact I'm following the numbers of visible tracks here. the number of visible tracks reduced at only this point, so I used a simple pattern to emphasis this
  16. 01:11:123 (5) - same ^
  17. 01:16:838 (5) - ^
    this 2 are a bit different. I just made a simple pattern here as a transition to next part. following same type of things with different density
  18. 01:14:873 (2) - ^
    this one's reason is same as 01:09:159 (2) -
  19. 01:20:230 (1,2,3,4) - and again these crazy shapes. I mean, alright, it may be your style, but I can't help myself and not tell you how inconsistent they are D:
    this is a style of mine, but this is just 1 of the reasons. another one is that strange shape goes a bit slower than regular one, so the speed-up is less confusing here
  20. 01:22:998 (12,1) - ugh, this is really ugly to be seen and partly to be played too. You might as well add another jump, although I dislike such technique by default.
    sudden calm down part is fiting the end of the song imo
  21. 01:23:088 (1,2) - just a minor detail: using the same shape gives a totally different feeling, and that's because they have an additional reason to be as they are (they share the same shape).
    I can't understand the difference here. however I think this 2 sliders are fine
    I won't go in details here on how to improve structure or what exactly this concept is, but I suggest you check my userpage. You'll find a lesson I did for my mentees time ago that would help you understand better what I mean here.

________________



As a general thing: having a Beginner and a Hyper diff is pretty pointless in this set imo. If you remove them gaps are still fine and linear, which makes me wonder "why did you add them to begin with?"
wider spread is always better, isn't it?

Anyway, I'll post this for now and edit later with the rest of the diffs.
I gave a quick look at Insane and Hyper and... well, it's more or less the same things I mentioned here so this set is definitely not ready, sorry.
I just need sleep right now. I'll write the rest soon enough.
Curisu
Rizia
short mod

[Insane]
  1. 00:13:088 (2,3) - its confused the rhythm after 1/2 slider 00:12:730 (7) - ,recommend make the slider head on the strong beat
[Curisu's Hyper]
  1. 00:05:230 (4,5) - it a bit easy to misbread to 3/4 slider with circle since the spacing between, i suggest to stack it together
yeah that's all
mapset seem fine to me
not much thing want to point out
Curisu

Rizia wrote:

[Curisu's Hyper]
  1. 00:05:230 (4,5) - it a bit easy to misbread to 3/4 slider with circle since the spacing between, i suggest to stack it together imo not misleading but stacking it is fine
多謝mod :lol:
UndeadCapulet

MrSergio wrote:

  1. 00:00:231 (1) - unsnapped :P
    To be more accurate, it should start from 00:00:320 - , which is the point where those bells start playing. Use 25% playback rate and see yourself the strings instrument clearly starts at the downbeat
  2. 00:12:730 (9,10,1) - trust me that barely no one will be able to anticipate such a pattern. When you have a circle like that after a slider you'd expect a 1/4 snap between slider and circle and then a short 1/2 break to the next object. this is blatantly false, many many players can play and expect this just fine, please avoid spreading misinformation like this
there's something wrong with the state of the game if a wcx map gets popped for "random note placements"
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply