many thingsTo be honest, personally I don't even see why we have to mess with scroll speed in the first place. Surely this is a problem if suddenly score V2 + EZ is faster than score V1 nomod :/
I'd like to play with ScoreV1 this year, giving players around the world 1 year to discover the scoreV2 system and really make it stable.
n1doking wrote:what was wrong with the old scoring systemthe old system is all about having majority of taiko's mechanics be optional, whereas they have been mapped with intention in most parts. people skin away finisher objects to normal objects, trivializing them, spinners can be ignored, sliders can be ignored. the only thing I sort of can see not necessarily need to change is HP, but HP was always sort of silly in taiko - and is a bit overtuned right now (no idea if the hotfix for this has been pushed yet)
why do we need a new one to replace a system that was perfectly fine
i don't understand the reasoning behind score v2 at all
That's what unique about taiko. Are you going to force the meta? Every mode have different unique mechanic and it's not good to break any of them. I'd rather ignore some of the sliders for stamina with the cost of a lil bit of my score. But sliders now affect acc and combo? really? how about those sliders with only 3 - 5 ticks? What if you hit the first and then being notelocked? great. a miss / a 100. I'm ok with the spinners tho, as long as the map pool have no ninja one. HP is ok and unique so it shouldn't change imo. #RespectTaikoNoTatsujin. Remember what's taiko mode origin.
Garpo wrote:The only beneficial thing I've seen from Scorev2 is making spinners worth a flat 300 so Hard Rock SS is equal to a Hidden SS which has been a problem for a long time in tournaments.All in all, I think doing this is the step into the right direction, HP drain is harsh and can't behave like in osu!standard (dunno if it considers NCs, if yes, it shouldn't), OD ratings stayed the same and I think we didn't really talk or look into mods (HD, HR, DT, HDHR) yet, so you shouldn't judge that just yet, however preliminary suggestions always work out.
Having HP drain sounds like a dumb idea on paper, a lot of maps have large difficulty spikes which would results in players failing in situations they normally wouldn't be.
the default taiko HP system doesnt make inherent sense, though. although it being overtuned (as said), I don't mind this kind of HP at all. it works for mania, though works for taiko, too.
STOP FREAKING COMPARING TAIKO AND MANIA 4K, IT IS NOT THE FREAKING SAME. The keyboard overlay maybe the same, but the skills required to play is never the same. Otherwise why do we have to seperate those mode? Maybe many top taiko players are good at mania and vice versa, but that not make everything works for mania to works for taiko too. Just... seriously, just stop it. Does mania have completely notelock on stream? Can you press a note on taiko before another when it comes later and still got no miss(es)? Is there any hold note in taiko? etc.
In a tournament setting like TWC, I see if you don't hit finishers properly it counts as a miss in a positive way. There won't be loved mapped like Looming Shadow or other obscure loved/Unranked maps. although maps like Da x10 have been. Counting it as a miss is a bit harsh but I don't know how harsh a miss punishes you in scorev2.
yeah well, if people wouldn't skin their finisher objects to normal objects and simply ignore a crucial mechanic on beatmaps that are designed in a way that they are way more tricky with playing them but absolutely trivial without (see looming shadows or no money down), this wouldnt need to be a thing. but finishers are a gameplay mechanic - and with old scores, they are entirely optional to do. ignoring mechanics that have been put with full intention to be ignored at all shouldn't be a thing. Hitting finishers should be easier now - or at least, it does actually show you hitting them, as the leniency didn't change (30ms right now I think?)
First of all, some maps have 1/8 stream with finishers at the middle of it. Many, in fact. So if you're planning on doing this, please make sure that 100% of the map is fc-able. Remember that not all of us are _yu. Second of all: if you change the timing difference between 2 button pressed of a finishers to like 30ms, 1/8 stream with finishers at the end/start will be completely ruined as if you press 2 button at different time trying to start the stream, the game might take both of them as the input for the finisher. I just hate the changes on finisher.
Drum rolls being forced to 1/4 and counting as a 300/miss is plain stupid. Sure, you might implement a way to change the tick rate but on older fast maps that may be used could cause some issues with it being extremely difficult to hit all of the ticks. Another issues is that if you slightly miss time the head of it and don't realize it in time, you could be tick locking yourself out by hitting between ticks and it being almost impossible to get back into it.
drum rolls being 1/2 on high BPM doesnt make sense either. drum rolls turning to 1/8 on DT neither. Having them on 1/4 is the most proper way to handle this (and making them 1/3 if tickrate is 3, which is hopefully to come, I already brought that up). Ticks are indeed difficult to hit because of some weird note locking, however, you dont have to hit all ticks. a completion is reached with hitting 30% of the slider's ticks. only if you hit less than 30%, you gain a miss. although we need to look into this note locking, I think it also affects spinners.
I agree with you on this.
Spinners counting as a miss if not completed shouldn't be an issue during TWC. There is a very little chance that there will be maps with ninja ones, it is completely your fault if you don't complete it and are punished accordingly.
even with, imo crying about ninja spinners is really just crying, because completing them isnt even remotely hard and ignoring them should be as punished as finishers (same reason)
Nope, cancer roll speed maps like THIS (Imagine the spinner is ninja). RIP FOR SURE unless you LEARN THE MAP BY HEART (Which is not ok imo)
What I see is that, Scorev2 is very punishing to players who don't play perfectly every time. From finishers counting as misses to the 1 Million score cap.
that's the idea. there is the same accuracy/combo weighting as in mania right now (iirc? don't quote me here). Taiko relies less on combo and tiering score increase now - and taiko always punished those who don't play perfectly every time, so this isn't really a concern
LOL sorry i just read it right now.
The argument wheter we need this or not is uuuh, let's say that Taiko is probably the most lenient game mode in all of its aspect but hit accuracy (has the harshest hit windows of all game modes), however Taiko allows you to ignore pretty much over the half of its mechanics and just faceroll through all the normal notes. ScoreV2 gives the other half of the mechanics a way higher weightening, changes how maps play and reduce the cheesing through game mechanics (here again: SKINS) and make the maps and its elements be played the way they are supposed to be played.
[*] The note scroll speeds not adjust based on resolution. The default resolution is 4:3. As such, the track is no longer cut to a 4:3 resolution with HD.
[*] HDHR now accounts for the HR speed multiplier to make notes as visible as with just HD.
[*] Finishers now give a 300/100 hit for successful hits with the first key, and 900/300 hit for successful hits with the second key. Thus the total max score attainable from a finisher is 1200/400 (4x a normal hit).
[*] Not pressing the second key for finishers now results in a combo break (but not a miss).
[*] Finishers no longer require double presses.[/list]
- Finishers are calculated last and are worth 4x the score. E.g. 300 normal -> 1200 finisher. 350 drum roll -> 1400 finisher.
- Finishers require double presses, like a double chord in osu!mania. Lenience has not been adjusted for this.
HP drain for misses has been halved.
[*] Taiko now has HP. HP values are calculated exactly the same as osu!mania.
[*] Normal notes are unchanged. Scoring is 300 for an accurate hit, 100 for an inaccurate hit.last i checked it was 150 for inaccurate hits
Sooo it's 4:3 players turn to get fucked? Not sure why you dont keep both resolutions but Im not gonna register for that single reason and might not be the only one doing so. Idk if your plan is to get even less people participating but if so then yea sure keep goingNot sure what you mean by this? How does this affect anything for 4:3 players? The only thing this affects is 16:9 players being forced to 4:3 with HDHR.
uhm any plan to make the scorev2 to fallback too? It's quite ridiculous that old pc can't use scorev2 (but long long ago i tried scorev2 on ctb on fallback or so D: ). Sadly i can't check the new ScoreV2 update. I will keep my eyes on the discussion as well. :/Not for the time being no. It's made specifically for the TWC right now, which fallback players will not be able to participate in anyway.