I don't know is it just me but I feel like the HP is really meaningless.
I tend to agree that doing *both* is maybe overkill. But I want to math out multiple scenarios first and then make some sort of choice here.
Jaye wrote:I think having a mandatory 4x score or miss is a VERY large punishment for a tournament setting, especially for many maps (such as Loctav's) that overkill Finishers (ironically, with the way Finishers are now, his maps are virtually unplayable xD). However, giving the player a miss for technically hitting a note is a no-go, it's unfair and uncalled for. I think having a 4x score on Finishers, as opposed to the standard 2x, will place a larger emphasis on the appropriate hitting of Finishers like Loctav is trying to get at with this change.
one attempt of an example scenario would be this map that was in last year's LMS; it has a pretty lengthy 1/2-snap D K D K D K D K ... section at 260 BPM which is VERY difficult to double-hit all the way through without risking misses. In the instance where both sides pull FC's and the winning side doesn't double-hit any of them, the losing side only needs to double-hit some (if not all) finishers of ONE color to seal the game, even if they're behind by around 4x100, 12x100, or 25x100 or so. Basically, it's about double-hitting more than the opponent(s) without missing, with that section being in kiai time to further emphasize it.
Loctav wrote:I tend to agree that doing *both* is maybe overkill. But I want to math out multiple scenarios first and then make some sort of choice here.
Can you stop being a shit. What are you gonna do, kill me because I forgot about red text I read 4 days ago?
conor wrote:please use this thread for what it was intended for instead of ignoring the massive red text in the first post
this mode will forever stay the same because of reasons like you lot
nobody was asking about your participation either but thanks for adding that comment in anyway
It's fine to correct us, but don't act like you're 3 while you do it. If you're gonna tell the internet you're 20 years old, then act like a fucking 20 year old.
Conor wrote:animexamera wrote:
what about future scores, i mean you arent doing this for fun to troll all of us are you?
how about you fuck off already and come back with something beneficial towards this new system?
the current system we have is bad and anybody who thinks otherwise is absolutely delusional
it might be a foreign concept to you but when enough people make their voice heard about certain things they get changed
basically quit being a shit and get the changes you want instead (which funnily enough are the ones almost everybody else wants and they're currently getting)
Both of these examples are possible with any playstyle. There's also a recent video in the video thread of someone doing Loctav's looming map on v2 which is significantly harder.
k3v227 wrote:Another point to consider about finishers causing a combo break:
Here are two examples (there are certainly more instances of this concept in other maps):
This is almost on equivalent of saying 300+bpm maps should be banned because lower skill level players can't play that fast, or that LN's shouldn't break combo in mania because some players can't hold notes while pressing others. To add to that, they most certainly CAN fix it by improving their skill at that mechanic (aka: 'getting good').
k3v227 wrote:Not every taiko player has the same skill, ability, and playstyle so it's unreasonable to arbitrarily define "high-BPM play" because it's relative for every player. For some taiko players this is 180BPM, and for applerss this is 380bpm (LOL). So if a lower-skilled taiko player is struggling to hit finishers at 180BPM it's wrong to just tell them to "get good" and "play the game properly" because they can't in that moment. Why should they be penalized for something that they can't fix?
I'm still waiting to see a map that has impossible to hit finishers that isn't a convert. So far every map I've been linked is possible with proper reading and finger coordination. 300bpm+ is reaching an extremely fast speed for most players at high level (barring players like yu / applerss / a few others), so of course hitting finishers at that speed is hard, playing anything at that speed is hard irrelevant of finishers, especially considering the rules around them completely preventing players from having to (excuse mania terminology) do jacks at all unless there are multiple finishers in quick succession.
k3v227 wrote:You can extend this to a higher-skilled player struggling to hit finishers at 300BPM. Telling them to "get good" and "play the game properly" absolutely wouldn't make sense here because where do you draw the line? At what BPM is it acceptable to not play finishers with two fingers because it's too difficult? You can always tell any player to just "get good" because they can improve over time, but that line of thought has no place in determining game mechanics; that people need to just "get good".
Just speaking of significantly harder maps, Harpuia
Tasha wrote:There's also a recent video in the video thread of someone doing Loctav's looming map on v2 which is significantly harder.
But why do you find it awful? Most people here now actually want to help to get ScoreV2 a reason to exist, giving ideas and suggestions for improvement of it. Also, I am pretty certain that this will eventually be our new scoring system, and I also look forward to it. If there are changes you will never be able to please every single soul on this planet, that's just how life is.
Delthas wrote:Are these changes going to replace the current scoring system eventually? I find every single change you've added completely awful and in the wrongest possible direction for this game, but as long as this only applies for TWC I don't care. Just tell me you're going to keep the old system for normal plays (ranked and unranked) or at least for unranked plays, or that you're going to keep a way to play Taiko normally with a "score V1" mod or something. Please.
Something I wanted to suggest as well, even though I won't go as far as introducing 50s for this. The problem here is that even if you hit the note correctly, you would still get a 100 for it, which makes no sense. Perfect hits on finishers should always give 300, no matter if hit once or twice.
_verto_ wrote:Has anybody suggested that big notes should give 100 or even introducing 50s just for this if finishers are not hit correctly instead of combobreaking?
If not, I just did.
Scorev2 should be balanced with both tournaments and pp in mind.
haha. actually just ask any mapper or high level mapper for their opinion on this. everyone's just begging the staff to stop "shitting on" taiko
Ak1o wrote:Some people said it already, instead of instantly shitting on new ideas w/o giving any arguments or reasons, have some free thoughts about it for a change and read some posts people wrote before. There are quite some interesting suggestions that are worth a thought imo.
i don't believe that i have any chance to make them cancel this new system even with the best arguments, and i don't think we can fix or modify the score v2 system enough so as to turn it back to the right direction for the game. i've lost any kind of hope regarding the possibility to cancel or fix this and i'm just wondering whether they'll give us at least a "score v1 mod" in order to be able to enjoy the game.
Ak1o wrote:But why do you find it awful? Most people here now actually want to help to get ScoreV2 a reason to exist, giving ideas and suggestions for improvement of it. Also, I am pretty certain that this will eventually be our new scoring system, and I also look forward to it. If there are changes you will never be able to please every single soul on this planet, that's just how life is.
I think there was also a suggestion to disable ScoreV2 for these kind of maps. Furthermore,
Delthas wrote:edit: just take a look at this poll or at what kind of maps we taiko players actually LOVE playing. the new scoring system would break more than half of these maps. it's crzay. i don't even
I wish people would actually try to have an own opinion instead of always referring to "(high level) mappers", even if they may be more experienced.
Delthas wrote:haha. actually just ask any mapper or high level mapper for their opinion on this. everyone's just begging the staff to stop "shitting on" taiko
I agree, it took a while for me to finally try it without HDHR BecauseItLooksSoGodDamnBEAUTIFUL and I really don't like the new SV scaling
OzzyOzrock wrote:has anyone gotten mad at the SV scaling thing? it looks like garbage tbh if there's any way to preserve the beautifully authentic stacking of notes with 1.4 without changing osu into a square i'd love it
why is one of the options for that poll "I don't like it; the current PP system is fine as it is."?