Taiko ScoreV2 Discussion

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5urface

_yu68 wrote:

Is scroll speed changing not intended?

I think same scroll speed as 4:3 should be applied even at 16:9 resolution.
That would be unfair for 4:3 screen users as they would see less notes at the same time and it would be horribly unfair on higher SV
Same scroll speed on different screen aspect ratios could only be achieved if the length of the taiko bar was limited on wider resolutions.

I think the double hit finisher/not registering as real finisher bug happens as follows: Taiko registers a hit on a finisher immediately as the first button is pressed. If the second button is pressed on the same frame it registers as proper finisher. If the second button is pressed later but still within the acceptable time frame, it will add another hit, add the score of the second hit and internally count the finisher as hit by two buttons. But as the finisher was already registered as not being hit with two, but one button it wont revert that.
To fix this you would have to change how hit registration works on finishers, only registering the single/double button press after the 30ms timeframe for successfully hitting both buttons has passed.

Currently hitting the finisher buttons on different frames also seems to award more points:

Auto SS score with perfect finishers
My SS score with finisher hits on different frames
_yu68

5urface wrote:

That would be unfair for 4:3 screen users as they would see less notes at the same time and it would be horribly unfair on higher SV
Same scroll speed on different screen aspect ratios could only be achieved if the length of the taiko bar was limited on wider resolutions.
Can't players change resolution by option?

The disadvantage by 4:3 monitor is like the disadvantage by pc specs.
Should not restrict 16:9 players due to such problems.

Osu!taiko models "Taiko no Tatsujin", 16:9 scroll is closest to it.
So osu!taiko should follow with it.

To maintain fairness, It is best to slow 4:3 scroll on scorev 2 with 16:9 scroll as reference.
Nwolf
osu!taiko is not Taiko no Tatsujin. It doesn't have to follow it and scorev2 is a step in the direction of REALLY not following TnT mechanics.
_yu68
Anyway, I think it's better to slow 4:3 scroll speed
XK2238
played for a bit, can confirm


1. result totals show correctly despite combo screwing up. I'm not seeing how the finishers are 4x worth though; for example, in the first screenshot, regular notes were worth 1200~1350, while finishers had only around 2000 or 2200 (the first note being a finisher had ~1300, wat). Also, the >1m thing.
2. kiai time still has its +20% absent.
3. HR is slower now! E.g. in 4:3 reso, the circles would still overlap a bit on the borders, compared to being exactly adjacent like it was before. Haven't looked at 16:9 reso, but some people say it's relatively even slower than in 4:3, although very slightly. Also, HD visibility area got scaled along with the reso width?

there's most likely more to be found along the way, but so far it's going pretty well. Isn't it nice to have the same on-screen time of notes across different widths though? I mean, widescreen has been quite overpowered in non-HD/HR ever since the widescreen update back in late 2012 or early 2013.

---------

alright, go on
Loctav
yeah, but right now you can factually shift your scroll speed with resolution, which sort of makes HR and HD trivial. We are revising our changes here.
Bramble
HDHR turns out to be pretty easy once you play the fixed version, so I might consider buffing HR to be really worth to be on par with DT, because right now, HDHR is just cheap in comparison to DT. (as in, DT demands way more for the same score bonus, e.g. in terms of hit window)
Other than the part where HDHR is cheap in comparison to DT, this statement just genuinely confuses me :? What do you mean by "buffing HR to be really worth to be on par with DT"?

EDIT:
Upon completion of a drum roll, a miss will be given if the player has hit less than 15% of the ticks, a 100 will be given if the player has hit between 15% and 30% of the ticks, and a miss will be given if the player has hit more than 30% of the ticks.
"and a miss will be given if the player has hit more than 30% of the ticks" Please tell me this is a typo -w-
karterfreak
So something that should be pointed out...

Scrolling differences per mod
Nomod = ScoreV2 is faster
DT = ScoreV2 is faster
HR = ScoreV1 is slightly faster?

All three of these should be unchanged from V1 if you based things off 16:9 and rescaled them to 4:3 (to make up for 4:3's smaller width). What we have now with ScoreV2 is Nomod and DT both being harder while HR got easier. Kinda throws the balance of the mods out of whack a little bit.

On the positive side of things... OHGODYESTHANKYOUFORHDHRPLSMAKEAVAILABLEINSCOREV1ASAPKTHX.
Bramble
So you're saying that scroll speed for HR will be slower in V2?
karterfreak

BrambleClaw wrote:

So you're saying that scroll speed for HR will be slower in V2?
It is slower! Not by much but it's definitely slower.
Edgar_Figaro
Interesting I'll need to test out what BPM I can play effectively with HR with new scroll speed change to see "how much slower"
Bramble
Well I'm all for slightly slower HR, maybe I can finally pass 200 BPM lol. I'm a lot more open to V2 with these changes that were updated, I haven't tried it yet though so I can't really say. I'm really glad we changed how finishers work, just because people's hardware would make the game unplayable (not me personally), so keep up the good work guys! (Still confused about things I mentioned before though)
Full Tablet
As for being able to change the scroll speed by changing resolution, the best solution is making the play area proportions standard and constant regardless of resolution (the same way the osu!mania play area scales with resolution with constant skin settings). That way, the scroll speed and time each note is on the screen is constant.

animexamera
I am really happy to see that you people who make this scorev2, that nobody wants, are still able to listen to others after all.

I still think misses on double notes are stupid, as they make certain maps and playstyles impossible.

also making maps impossible are drum roll´s and spinner´s HP drain and HP drain overally

i dont have any issues with the resolution stuff (because it actually makes sense in comparisson to the mania copies (why would you even make taiko like mania))
_yu68
I agree with Full Tablet.
Topic Starter
smoogipoo

Full Tablet wrote:

snip
So I've seen this suggested multiple times now, but this is impossible to achieve. You have one independent variable - the resolution (r), one uncontrolled (but constant) variable - the hitobject time (t), and two dependent variables - the speed of hitobjects (s) and the density of hitobjects per unit time (d).

You cannot control both s and d simultaneously - or at all. The simplest one is speed, which can be modeled as
s = r / t
Where you can see that a change in r results in a change in s, which can only be adjusted by a change in the uncontrolled variable t.

Density likewise can't be controlled, but it can be hand-wavily modeled by:
d = r / s
= r / (r / t)
= t
But t is uncontrolled.

Your "How it currently scales" box controls speed and density by keeping resolution constant.
Your "How it should scale" box is impossible as the change in density requires a change in time.

I've thought about it but the only conclusion I've come up with is to crop the area as ScoreV1 does.
k3v227
Two painless suggestions:

- Forget all of this resolution nonsense and just add this feature to taiko. Problem solved.

- Also add the note-randomization mod that mania has too :)
Topic Starter
smoogipoo

k3v227 wrote:

Two painless suggestions:

- Forget all of this resolution nonsense and just add this feature to taiko. Problem solved.

- Also add the note-randomization mod that mania has too :)
I have considered the first suggestion, but concluded that it would break HR forevermore. So that's not happening.

Second one is not a feature request for consideration right now.
k3v227
You sniped my edit so I'll just respond with it instead :P

smoogipooo wrote:

k3v227 wrote:

Two painless suggestions:

- Forget all of this resolution nonsense and just add this feature to taiko. Problem solved.

- Also add the note-randomization mod that mania has too :)
I have considered the first suggestion, but concluded that it would break HR forevermore. So that's not happening.

Second one is not a feature request for consideration right now.
Disable the ability to Decrease Speed if you use HR to preserve the integrity of the mod.

Also that's fair about the randomization mod, but that seems like a no brainer to a lot of the community.
Full Tablet

smoogipooo wrote:

Full Tablet wrote:

snip
So I've seen this suggested multiple times now, but this is impossible to achieve. You have one independent variable - the resolution (r), one uncontrolled (but constant) variable - the hitobject time (t), and two dependent variables - the speed of hitobjects (s) and the density of hitobjects per unit time (d).

You cannot control both s and d simultaneously - or at all. The simplest one is speed, which can be modeled as
s = r / t
Where you can see that a change in r results in a change in s, which can only be adjusted by a change in the uncontrolled variable t.

Density likewise can't be controlled, but it can be hand-wavily modeled by:
d = r / s
= r / (r / t)
= t
But t is uncontrolled.

Your "How it currently scales" box controls speed and density by keeping resolution constant.
Your "How it should scale" box is impossible as the change in density requires a change in time.

I've thought about it but the only conclusion I've come up with is to crop the area as ScoreV1 does.
What I meant was always keeping the proportions of the playfield constant, varying which percentage of the area of the screen is covered by it depending on the screen proportions. This way, density and speed (percentage of the screen covered per second) of the objects is always the same regardless of screen proportions.

Maybe these pictures illustrate what I mean more clearly:
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