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posted

Arrival wrote:

I mean do you guys ACTUALLY looked at what this "MASSIVE" "HUGE" "DRASTIC" modification changes on gameplay ? Well, nearly nothing. Nearly everyone hits sliders / spinners / finishers now, so giving them importance will be only a better thing. If you like taiko now, you'll like it on Score v2. If you hate it now, then you'll hate it on score v2 too.
Do you have statistics on that?
That's like saying none plays converts and here is n1doking...

The concerns voiced regarding drumroll- and spinnerusage in mapping and how they would play out in the new context can't just be breezed off without thinking.
I for example often like to hit drumrolls with some custom rhythm I deem fitting when I have the impression that spamming all the ticks through doesn't fit the song in that place. And based on how drumrolls used to work maybe this is even what the mapper intended?
The same goes for the selected HP value as well so you should at least take a careful look instead of saying "nah, everything's fine because literally nothing changes". That's definitely wrong because things do change even if they actually end up being fine.

As far as I understood it, the intention of Taiko score v2 is to create a scoring system that is easier to understand for the clueless viewer and as such we get the analogies with 1m score and health to the other modes.
I'm not sure if the current setup is a success because as already mentioned, the mechanic of gaining score is less transparent with the arbitrary cap and the unknown scaling of combo- and accuracyscore which is also impossible to tell apart from each other. I think the possibility of losing score does not really make a scoring system easier to understand either.
I think I can just repeat my already voiced opinion here: The Taiko v1 scoring system is fairly straightforward, easy to understand and does a good job overall. I don't see a value in changing it to some weird values with new calculations just to have the same number as in the other modes when you lose some significant bits on the way that the other scoring systems (specifically std+ctb v1) never offered.

The premise of making all elements contribute to the score meaningfully is good from a viewing perspective though. I don't think the intended mechanics for the elements are suited to make their way into regular Taiko as they are now but for a tournament - why not? There have already been quite some comments on the finisher-mechanic though but it looks like you have an eye on it already. Same for notelock.
Health is just...meh. Taiko is not balanced around it like that. I see how the healthsystem of the other modes is easier to understand for a novice but I really don't think that this small benefit outweighs the balancing of the health and potential player or team deaths. Especially considering that Loctav wants to have the pool being significantly harder than last years...while it may be interesting from a competitive perspective as mentioned by Tasha such stuff is absolutely awful to watch when it ends up happening and most importantly - the team/player that dies on a spike with the new system would have lost the map in 99% of cases anyway! The major difference is that it feels worse and less "gg".
posted

Tasha wrote:

We can't even remove converts from rank because of people who oppose it
who?

i mean if you'r gonna force scoreV2 over pple's opinions, why not force that too?? (which is actually something we want LOL)


edit : cheaters give their opinions, only on osu :)
posted
will this be exclusive to tournaments or do you actually have plans to push this new system for the entire mode?

asking before i share my opinions on what the changes should be because i see a lot of people talking about converted maps here when i don't think they're understanding that this will only be for tournaments.
posted

Nofool wrote:

Tasha wrote:

We can't even remove converts from rank because of people who oppose it
who?

i mean if you'r gonna force scoreV2 over pple's opinions, why not force that too?? (which is actually something we want LOL)
Exact ... who's oppose? ...

obtain rank based in converteds EZ+DT is pathetic ... I even regret having Holy Orders with Easy
posted
It's more of a problem with the taiko pp system than anything else. Regardless, it's best not to turn this into a convert argument thread since I don't think score v2 has anything to do with them.
posted
Sorry :?
posted
I'm still not liking the idea of finishers basically turning into osu!mania. They've always been optional in osu! and every other taiko game, changing it now seems to be forcing people to play a specific way to play a map, not forcing people to play a specific way to get extra points. (this is a pretty unique thing taiko has over most other rhythm games)

Also honestly the maps forced finishers actually affect are generally maps with a lot of finishers, which you're pretty much bound to lose at in twc if you don't hit them vs someone who hits them while both fc. If you don't hit the finishers on maps like Schrodinger's Cat, Burn and Burn It Down you've already lost to be honest, also worth mentioning that all the maps mentioned are very playable with DT which I'd say makes it really challenging if you intend to hit finishers.
posted
All I know is Lno would have a totally legit #1 on marisa
posted
Sorry :?
posted
Hello and let's take a look

A miss will be given upon unsuccessful completion of a spinner.
A 300 hit will be given upon successful completion of a spinner.
Spinners award around half the HP of drum rolls for each hit and for successful completion of the spinner.
This might be a hard choice to let you know if the current ScoreV1 didn't give any miss for unsuccessful completion but if this score is being used on gimmick maps, it might be a worse idea at all.

For the second statement, it's really a good idea. This will pretend any huge score difference between x100 combos and x0-x99 combo(s) when being calculated.

For the third statement, how about if we did an unsuccesfull completion of a spinner? Will the HP drain decrease like before (ScoreV1)?

@Loctav : Please make sure that the mappools for TWC2017 won't be awkward. Unranked maps mostly awful to get a good score and had many unranked stuffs (but there are some unranked maps with a good reason to be on mappools).

i will check the other comments on this discussion first :3 and then continue this one
posted
I've pushed out a new build with a few changes to address most concerns in this thread. Check out the OP (I will update this with every new update going forward) and let me know what you think of the new changes.
posted
I will say that I like it a lot better now than before, from what I understand combo has an effect on score still but not as much as before? I'm still not entirely happy about finishers counting as a combo break in that case.

Oh well, I'm glad some middle ground has been made already.
posted
My English is not good, sorry.
I basically agree if this applies only in tournament.
But I disagree to give big notes possibility of misscount.
The reason for this is that depending on keyboard and pc spec, it may not be judged that pressed with both hands.
posted
@smoogipooo, it's better than before now. A lot of changed from original but about the big notes, i'm still disagree a little bit. check yu68's :) i would agree with his reason
posted
did you fix HDHR for tournament settings only? regular play needs this badly because for way too long it's been DT or nothing. i would love to see DT have something that could match it for once. the balance of scores/pp on standard with HDHR/DT is something i think taiko has needed for years. i didn't think i would live to see the day where HDHR was actually usable.

normal notes are fine.

remove anything combo break/missing related from finishers and they'll be fine. the 1 key/2 key score difference is all you need for these. there's way too many playstyle and equipment factors to make combo break/missing ever work for these. it's kinda daft to me. if it was in my hands i would make 1 key worth 2x a normal note and 2 keys worth 4x a normal note but have them both still count as a 300.

the drumrolls are amazing. i beg you to apply this change to regular play. drumroll ticks changing to 1/8 on bpm<=125 has been a pain for everyone since the dawn of time (mainly score farmers). 250bpm drumrolls on 125bpm songs is something that shouldn't happen. the rest of the changes are fine. i heavily agree on them being added to the 1,000,000 score and not counting towards combo. notelocking being removed is another godsend especially when it comes to high bpm since a lot of people including myself begin to hit them with 4 keys at that point. the missing aspect of these shouldn't be a problem for anybody now.

spinners are fine.

health is something i need to play around with a little more but as it stands there doesn't seem to be that much of a difference. it seems pretty solid if you ask me and the whole idea of "building HP" has confused viewers and new players forever.
posted
Given that the punishment for not hitting a finisher has now gone up from 2x to 4x, it seems rather excessive to add a minimum ~40k point deficit on top of that in the form of a combobreak. (insert something about keyboard not registering finisher hits here).
posted
Before I will make the decision whether to change the slider tick bonus to a different value or whether to make finishers slider break or not (or have a x4 bonus, having both really seems excessively punishing on misheap), i want to do some maths with how scorev2 currently computes these notes and how scorev1 would. Please give me some time for that.

I am glad you like the changes to HDHR and fixing resolution abuse. I didn't get quite the chance yet to test this out and figure if new HR itself it broken (? I heard rumors), but yet again I urge everyone to test things directly (maybe we can get HDHR into ranked play already, I'd love so)

Everything else from this point on feels like balancing, as in how much gives what, how much does every note drain, is it feasible to keep this HP system with current map settings, etc.
for that I will need to do some excessive maths sessions and get back to you with my results, so I am asking for patience here and thank you for all the feedback so far!

Finisher hits not being registered seemed to be a long term display bug that actually resulted in registering the finisher, but not showing you that it did. This display bug seem to be fixed, too, as I can suddenly reliably hit all finishers, which was never the case before.
posted
MY HD+HR MY LIFE IS COMPLETE AYAYAYAYAYAYAYA
posted
the finisher bug is still not fixed, you can hit finishers correctly and get bonus points but depending on (I think) PC and keyboard it won't show it as a finisher hit.

There are also cases where it might show finisher hit sometimes and normal hit other times if you hit correctly and get double points, I get it to show that I hit a finisher extremely rarely, but I generally get double points all the time if I hit correctly.
posted
For me the finisher display bug still persists. While being able to get the hit and score of the two button Finisher it displays and shows up in the stats at the end of the song as Finisher only if I hit both notes on the same frame (which at 2000 fps isn't happening often).
Finisher bug on end screen

Kiai time is still being ignored - Why is that?

Drumrolls with the removed notelock are actually fun to play and with that removed making them hitobjects is actually balanced so no issues here.

I still need more time to see if HP is balanced

The miss on Finishers needs to go though. 4x score should be enough reason to play them properly.
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