t/38533/start=45
t/41598/start=15
t/33921/start=60
t/41991/start=30
t/113949/start=75
can't remember of more cases
t/41598/start=15
t/33921/start=60
t/41991/start=30
t/113949/start=75
can't remember of more cases
Oh, I thought you were joking when you said that.Hobbes2 wrote:
No, the thing is every map is good it's hard to subjectively quantify a map as good or bad. For example, this map has its own good qualities and the current ranking system unfortunately does not give it an opportunity. An autoranking system would do just that and would really enhance this games' competitive attributes. This also solves the problem of pp maps, as pp becoming irrelevant is a good way to disincentivize pp mapping.
Honestly, I've gone to the point in which I'm now both playing and mapping for fun. I just can't get behind the wheel of ranking maps anymore as I used to and it makes me depressed. I just want my shantae map to be ranked sometime before I graduate.johnmedina999 wrote:
Oh, I thought you were joking when you said that.Hobbes2 wrote:
No, the thing is every map is good it's hard to subjectively quantify a map as good or bad. For example, this map has its own good qualities and the current ranking system unfortunately does not give it an opportunity. An autoranking system would do just that and would really enhance this games' competitive attributes. This also solves the problem of pp maps, as pp becoming irrelevant is a good way to disincentivize pp mapping.
Well, if every map is ranked, and PP is useless now, why not just remove ranked all together?
Believe it or not, ranked is a good place to find decent maps quickly. Trying to find a decent map in the graveyard is like trying to find diamonds in the landfill. Yes, there are VERY good maps that don't fit the ranked criteria (look at my favorited beatmap list), but those are just a small percentile buried under a sea of poorly made, half-assed, and improperly timed maps.
Alright, I've been meaning to say this since the thread started, and now would be a good time to say it.
I know I'm just a beginner; for three months I've been playing this game. Being a beginner, I really want to play some of the maps you all create, but the simple fact that I cannot play a 7* map stops me from doing so. Ranked maps require an easy/normal difficulty, so most of those are a godsend to players such as myself. Finding a song that isn't ranked that I can actually pass can be frustrating sometimes.
Now, I'm not saying graveyarded maps are trash, there are so many that are incredible, like this one, this one, this one, the list goes on and on! However, the way I see it, maps cannot stay Pending or WIP forever; they either get ranked or they don't. 99% of the maps that get graveyarded suck or are simply unplayable, which is why a ranked section is required with strict rules and guidelines (a "necessary evil").
The maps that are incredible and are not ranked tend to explode on their own anyway (yes, I'm looking at you, Evening). But they are not ranked because they are under 5:00 and do not have an easy/normal difficulty. And that alright. It's just by coincidence that PLANET//SHAPER got ranked, for it's 6:00 long. Now, I couldn't tell you myself, but I believe Evening's maps are of a very high quality and even though they aren't ranked are still enjoyable to play. But again, the ranked status is necessary because if there was no ranked status to strive for, no new players would ever play this game and the community would die out due to a lack of playable maps.
/rant
Sad truth is that it's necessary because of the size of the community. The size of the community makes it hard to pick out good maps otherwise due new shit maps flooding in every second.johnmedina999 wrote:
. But again, the ranked status is necessary because if there was no ranked status to strive for, no new players would ever play this game and the community would die out due to a lack of playable maps.
By making it so that people are allowed to make single high diff maps, means that there will be less easy maps available for new comers. And obviously there are more new comers than people who are good at the game.abraker wrote:
Sad truth is that it's necessary because of the size of the community. The size of the community makes it hard to pick out good maps otherwise due new shit maps flooding in every second.johnmedina999 wrote:
. But again, the ranked status is necessary because if there was no ranked status to strive for, no new players would ever play this game and the community would die out due to a lack of playable maps.
The minimum time for a map to have a single difficulty is 5 minutes. There will never be a sufficient amount of >7* maps between than 2 and 5 minutes due to the insane time that needs to be put in bridging the difficulty gap with a spread. As a result DT shit is what ET players depend on now. If you define quality by how many players the mapset is for, props to you for limiting ranked maps to what is reasonable to waste time on. If you define quality by how good a difficulty is, then what is this rule? I hear a single top tier difficulty in o2jam took some 2-3 years to make (>12 star). This is insane. You want a 2*, 4*, 6*, 8*,... I'd just have it loved. No need to rank it. It's just a number after all.
/insanity
/rant
This argument again. Top tier players are forced to their own niche communities as we see with Stepmania because this community tries to appeal to all. This is hindering progression. osu!mania will never see enough maps which push the limits and it will never appeal to top tier players. There needs to be a rule a allowing players who know what they are doing to map higher level stuff while not worrying about anything else.Blitzfrog wrote:
By making it so that people are allowed to make single high diff maps, means that there will be less easy maps available for new comers. And obviously there are more new comers than people who are good at the game.
The higher level maps all fall under "graveyard". You yourself say that ranked status does not matter:abraker wrote:
This argument again. Top tier players are forced to their own niche communities as we see with Stepmania because this community tries to appeal to all. This is hindering progression. osu!mania will never see enough maps which push the limits and it will never appeal to top tier players. There needs to be a rule a allowing players who know what they are doing to map higher level stuff while not worrying about anything else.
What is your point? Ranked maps require a full spread because that's the first thing new players see when they click on the "Beatmaps" button on the top of the page. If you want to skip making a full spread, that's fine, no one is judging you on that.abraker wrote:
No need to rank it. It's just a number after all.
Sounds good to me.abraker wrote:
Get people to like your map for what it is.
If you appeal to new players though, there will be a larger player base. The larger the player base, the more mappers, therefore higher chance of mapping higher level stuff. Also I proposed something for a reasonabraker wrote:
This argument again. Top tier players are forced to their own niche communities as we see with Stepmania because this community tries to appeal to all. This is hindering progression. osu!mania will never see enough maps which push the limits and it will never appeal to top tier players. There needs to be a rule a allowing players who know what they are doing to map higher level stuff while not worrying about anything else.Blitzfrog wrote:
By making it so that people are allowed to make single high diff maps, means that there will be less easy maps available for new comers. And obviously there are more new comers than people who are good at the game.
is there a term for both, like inactive but activewinber1 wrote:
non mappers arguing about mappers ahahahha
My crippling depression tells me yesBakari wrote:
You mean to tell me somebody actually cares about editor stuff?
B1rd wrote:
We don't need any more diffs for bad players because there are enough already. Thousands. And if we stopped making it a requirement, people would still map them because they are easy to map and mappers naturally map what the community plays. Easy diffs don't fit in with a lot of songs and have to be extremely undermapped, and make mapping and ranking a lot more tedious. So does this idea of 'difficulty spread' in which maps have to cater to every imaginable skill level for unknown reasons. Rather than having a philosophy of "every player deserves to play every song regardless of skill level"' (which is undermined by the fact that when you go over 5 minutes you don't need to do this anymore), having a skill barrier for certain songs might actually encourage people to get better. The game is not sustained by casual players, and making everything easy for casual players is not how you encourage them to play more.
Cater to a wider audience, also known as dumb down. It's good that certain niches can be filled by certain maps, not everything has to be for everyone.Garven wrote:
I see lazy people are still crying over not wanting to cater to a wider audience with their maps. People never change.
there doesn't have to be a solution. Undermapping is good for easy maps, actually.Hobbes2 wrote:
Well making Easies and Normals isn't even that hard. The only real hard part is rhythm since there's not really that much freedom elsewhere. If you can make a 6 star map you should probably be able to spend an hour making the Easy and Normal too.
I do agree that some songs really suck to make E/N's for because of the severe undermapping required, but I don't really know the solution to that or if there even really has to be one.
not everyone plays at the same pace, hence why i like making easy difficulties easier than 1.3* some people aren't going to get good within 9 hours, or 8 days, or 10 weeks, others just have the skill/experience almost right awayRailey2 wrote:
The sort of songs that warrant a 6* difficulty often have more complex rhythms and when you map those in a normal difficulty, new players probably couldn't keep up with that. More complicated rhythms shouldn't be used too much in very easy maps, they should be introduced later after the new player mastered the very basics of the game. Playing easy and normal difficulties is basically like playing and extended tutorial of the game anyway, until you move on to hard maps
there doesn't have to be a solution. Undermapping is good for easy maps, actually.Yeah, I know, my point was the same as yours; some songs have rhythms that are pretty challlenging to make Easies and Normals out of, and requiring maps to have those diffs can be frustrating. But my personal opinion is that mappers are just gonna have to suck it up and make em.
The main reason I am against under mapping is it breaks me to see something like this severely under mapped to the point it barely creates that feel the music give off. Energy! Power! Excitement! Being ET as fuck! All that lost when you have slow sliders at AR 5. Create E/N difficulties for reasonable songs like vocals or calming piano songs, not high BPM *core.Railey2 wrote:
The sort of songs that warrant a 6* difficulty often have more complex rhythms and when you map those in a normal difficulty, new players probably couldn't keep up with that. More complicated rhythms shouldn't be used too much in very easy maps, they should be introduced later after the lew player mastered the very basics of the game. Playing easy and normal difficulties is basically like playing and extended tutorial of the game anyway, until you move on to hard maps!
<insert more bashing at the ranking criteria>Hobbes2 wrote:
But my personal opinion is that mappers are just gonna have to suck it up and make em.
*cough* monstrata*cough*B1rd wrote:
Easies and normals are all the same pretty much... Play one and you've played them all
Quality-wise, this is what I expect to read from Off-Topic. Thanks for the good laugh.B1rd wrote:
We don't need any more diffs for bad players because there are enough already. Thousands. And if we stopped making it a requirement, people would still map them because they are easy to map and mappers naturally map what the community plays. Easy diffs don't fit in with a lot of songs and have to be extremely undermapped, and make mapping and ranking a lot more tedious. So does this idea of 'difficulty spread' in which maps have to cater to every imaginable skill level for unknown reasons. Rather than having a philosophy of "every player deserves to play every song regardless of skill level"' (which is undermined by the fact that when you go over 5 minutes you don't need to do this anymore), having a skill barrier for certain songs might actually encourage people to get better. The game is not sustained by casual players, and making everything easy for casual players is not how you encourage them to play more.
He is somewhat right though. I remember when Talent Shredder came out and one of my goal was passing it, giving me motivation to play.Stefan wrote:
Quality-wise, this is what I expect to read from Off-Topic. Thanks for the good laugh.
That is wrong. Stefan is a cool mod, don't bully! how many times have you silenced me though?winber1 wrote:
he's low-key calling you an incapable potato of a moderator
it's a real honor to meet you sherlock, i loved ur booksN0thingSpecial wrote:
B1rd you're arguing for the sake of arguing
No.N0thingSpecial wrote:
B1rd you're arguing for the sake of arguing
Oh wait that's what mapping drama is supposed to be my bad