Sota Fujimori - polygon · forum

Xilver15

Former osu! Champion: 2015

Joined August 2013

Xilver15 2017-03-30T08:48:04+00:00

Hello! From queue o7 Apologies for short delay~

Navosu didn't point anything too interesting, so I'll leave the log out.

Nothing seemed off in General, either.

[unhinged]

00:02:737 (1) - Maybe turn this more expressive? It's emphasizing a pretty prominent sound so a simple curve makes this looks kinda weak.
00:13:599 (2) - There's a nice 1/8th here you could try mapping to, it feels pretty powerful to just ignore it and choose the 1/4 synth.
00:19:289 (4,5) - Shouldn't this be something similar to 00:16:530 (1,2,3) - ? It feels pretty weak ATM especially since you gave it so much emphasis on the first instance.
00:35:410 (1) - You could probably map this section...there's a lot to work with, having a spinner kinda makes it look out of place.
00:39:375 (4,5) - This feels like way too big of a jump...I suggest reducing the spacing a bit, since there's nothing in the music to call for such a change.
00:55:496 (1,2,1,2) - What is this mapped to? There are synths in that part which you seemingly ignored.
01:05:496 (1,2,3,1) - The jump between 3 to 1 is way too much, IMO. I think reversing direction would make more sense. There's nothing in the song to suggest such a big 1/4 jump.
01:08:513 (4) - There's also a 1/8th here you could probably map to if you wanted.
01:14:461 (1,2,3,4,1) - Pretty sure these are 1/8th synths you were trying to map to.
01:17:910 (1,2,3,4,1,1,2,1) - IMO, the spacing on 01:17:910 (1,2,3,4,1) - should be the same as 01:18:427 (1,2,1) -. The vocals seem just as intense so having them in different spacing is weird.
01:30:841 (3) - More instance of 1/8th, wouldn't make sense to ignore them especially since you didn't ignore them at 01:36:703 (3,4) -.
01:37:565 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - This seems pretty overkill...It's way bigger than your other streams in the kiai with no song change to suggest The spacing.
01:52:910 (2,3,4,5) - Change these to 1/8 sliders? It's pretty weird not using clickable 1/8th rhythm throughout your entire map and then introduce it at the very end.

[Bonzi]

00:24:203 (4) - Consider reducing SV a little to indicate this is a 1/8th slider better? Change for all other instances, too.
Nothing else, really @_@ This diff is really well made!!

[Hi-Speed]

Feels a bit weird to have a base SV of 1.80 on a hi-speed difficulty. Despite using high SV multipliers the SV speed still seemed a bit low to me overall. Maybe increase it a bit?

00:06:789 (1,2,3,4) - Starting streams on blue ticks is always a bit iffy...I'd try to reimplement it to start on the white tick, since I'm pretty sure you did the same thing to the top diff.
00:08:255 (1,2,3,4) - I think you should change this into a triangle rather than a square... There isn't an intense sound going on at 00:08:513 (4) - so having this massive spacing feels very out of place.
00:09:979 (1,2,3) - I think you should just make these flow in a straight motion...having antiflow here doesn't make sense much, since nothing is being emphasized in the song. Your flow shouldn't emphasize anything either.
00:14:806 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - I think this kind of goes against the theme of a hi-speed difficulty...shouldn't they be much faster?
00:19:634 (1,2) - The SV here is weird too, since the sound is the same as previous instances, yet you make this one really fast in SV.
00:34:806 (3) - I feel like this would be a good place to raise the SV to fit a hi-speed theme. Feels very slow and underwhelming.
01:08:599 (1,1,1) - This would be a good instance where antiflow would work really nicely to emphasize the sounds you were mapping. Something like this https://puu.sh/v3aDs/b1c9ffed7d.png feels way more strong and powerful compared to smooth motion, and there's also a part of a song to justify it.
01:17:910 (1,2,3,4,1) - Increase spacing here? Feels very weak with how this diff is designed, especially since you increased the spacing on instances like 01:18:513 (1,2) -.
01:41:703 (1,2,1) - 1 and 2 should probably go in the same direction...I think it's going to be very confusing for players if they go in opposite directions. IMO it looks nicer too! https://puu.sh/v3aJ1/b9d29e1a33.png

[Expert]
00:08:255 (1,2,3,4,1) - Same instance where there isn't a sound on 4 so it shouldn't be emphasized that much.

Didn't find much wrong, well done!! I like this difficulty a lot.

[Lolirii]

00:11:358 - Feels a bit weird to have a stream going on the same sounds where you didn't do a stream previously. Did that make sense? I don't really hear anything in the song to justify a stream, either.
00:23:082 (1,2,1,2,1) - These should probably be jumps, to be consistent with your theme in the previous sections. The synth gets weaker too.
00:44:979 (4,4) - You should probably overlap this, looks a bit ugly right now.
00:50:209 (2,3,1) - Don't think this is 1/6, just regular 1/4.
00:51:875 (1) - Remove NC?
00:55:726 (2,3,1) - Same here. Just 1/4
00:59:117 (4,5,6) - Consider moving 5 upward instead? You have a really wide angle here which doesn't emphasize anything since there's nothing to be emphasized in the song. You could also do a nice overlap with 00:58:513 (4) - https://puu.sh/v3bdg/4a24081ab0.png
01:08:427 (1,2,1) - I think you should move this more upward. The stream kind of looks really messy, not to mention it would fit your angle placements better. https://puu.sh/v3bhM/da99e6701d.png
01:11:703 (1) - This could probably be another 1/8th repeat, I think?
01:30:841 (1,1,1,1) - No need to NC all notes, I think the reduced spacing is a good enough indicator.
01:42:048 (1,2,3) - This is a bit too much xd. I think reducing it would work better, this seems like a huuuuuge spike at the moment, for not THAT much emphasis going on in the song.

[Extra]

01:14:461 (1,2,3,4,1) - This should probably be 1/8th.

Really nice <3

[Fanzhen]

00:58:255 - Feels a bit late to introduce this theme in your map, but it's a nice touch. I like it.
01:52:953 (1) - Recommend buffering that slider.

Looks fine.

Lower diffs look fine too! I'm guessing you needed help on the higher diffs, anyway.

Best of luck!!

Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-03-31T05:03:21+00:00

Xilver wrote:
Hello! From queue o7 Apologies for short delay~ no worries thanks for modding i appreciate feedback from god player

Navosu didn't point anything too interesting, so I'll leave the log out.

Nothing seemed off in General, either. :D

[unhinged]

00:02:737 (1) - Maybe turn this more expressive? It's emphasizing a pretty prominent sound so a simple curve makes this looks kinda weak. the beat completely drops out here, and i wanted to keep it consistent because i really like that flow into the sudden spike as the beat drops in 0.5 seconds
00:13:599 (2) - There's a nice 1/8th here you could try mapping to, it feels pretty powerful to just ignore it and choose the 1/4 synth. the 1/4 synth is much more vibrant to me in the music, it would be unintuitive for the player to listen to this song and tap 1/8 there
00:19:289 (4,5) - Shouldn't this be something similar to 00:16:530 (1,2,3) - ? It feels pretty weak ATM especially since you gave it so much emphasis on the first instance. the emphasis comes from it being such lower spacing with clean flow, playing it makes it not feel weak in my opinion even though i understand the perspective, the sound is much different here
00:35:410 (1) - You could probably map this section...there's a lot to work with, having a spinner kinda makes it look out of place. the leadin to the chorus having a break after the previous section + the finality of how the drums + hitsounds sound + how the challenge of stopping and suddenly doing a fastish spinner are why i want to use a spinner here, mapping it out would make the map feel too draining
00:39:375 (4,5) - This feels like way too big of a jump...I suggest reducing the spacing a bit, since there's nothing in the music to call for such a change. the other ones are higher spacing than this D: plus the angle makes this super easy even in comparison to the other spaced 1/4
00:55:496 (1,2,1,2) - What is this mapped to? There are synths in that part which you seemingly ignored. the high pitched ba ba ba ba sound that is the same tone that i've been following for the past 2 bars
01:05:496 (1,2,3,1) - The jump between 3 to 1 is way too much, IMO. I think reversing direction would make more sense. There's nothing in the song to suggest such a big 1/4 jump. ctrl g'd, i agree good work around
01:08:513 (4) - There's also a 1/8th here you could probably map to if you wanted. nearly inaudible for all intents and purposes, i'll think about making this note a 1/8 slider tho
01:14:461 (1,2,3,4,1) - Pretty sure these are 1/8th synths you were trying to map to. simplified to 1/4 to be fitting
01:17:910 (1,2,3,4,1,1,2,1) - IMO, the spacing on 01:17:910 (1,2,3,4,1) - should be the same as 01:18:427 (1,2,1) -. The vocals seem just as intense so having them in different spacing is weird. hmmmmmmmm let me think about changing this, the spacing of the 1/4 gradually increases in these 2 bars in order to make the transition much smoother, also i hear the triplet of the voice as more intense because of how he enunciants the last syllable 01:18:599 (1) which calls for more spacing for the whole pattern to emphasize this
01:30:841 (3) - More instance of 1/8th, wouldn't make sense to ignore them especially since you didn't ignore them at 01:36:703 (3,4) -. i don't hear the 1/8 you're talking about, unless you mean the vocal? the vocal isnt prominent like the other 1/8 it so it wouldn't make sense to map these as 1/8 sliders, also it would take away from the special feel of the 1/8 sliders later in the kiai
01:37:565 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - This seems pretty overkill...It's way bigger than your other streams in the kiai with no song change to suggest The spacing. there is no 1/4 jump in the second half of the kiai, just consistent streams, the second half of the song's kiai is undeniably more intense than the first half, so in the first half of the second kiai (01:31:358) i used long streams and lots of objects chained together with unrelenting rhythm to emphasize this, so when it came time to map a 1/4 jump, i made it bigger than all the rest to reflect the increased difficulty and intensity of the section
01:52:910 (2,3,4,5) - Change these to 1/8 sliders? It's pretty weird not using clickable 1/8th rhythm throughout your entire map and then introduce it at the very end. changed!

[Bonzi]

00:24:203 (4) - Consider reducing SV a little to indicate this is a 1/8th slider better? Change for all other instances, too.
Nothing else, really @_@ This diff is really well made!! ikr its fucking godly

[Hi-Speed]

Feels a bit weird to have a base SV of 1.80 on a hi-speed difficulty. Despite using high SV multipliers the SV speed still seemed a bit low to me overall. Maybe increase it a bit? i changed the diff name to Incrementally Hi Speed Extra to better reflect the theme of the map and address the concerns in your mod

00:06:789 (1,2,3,4) - Starting streams on blue ticks is always a bit iffy...I'd try to reimplement it to start on the white tick, since I'm pretty sure you did the same thing to the top diff. i understand your concern but i am following the song and this is a finger control heavy high extra difficulty at 174 bpm, it's okay due to how it follows the song exactly
00:08:255 (1,2,3,4) - I think you should change this into a triangle rather than a square... There isn't an intense sound going on at 00:08:513 (4) - so having this massive spacing feels very out of place. let me think about how to change this, i think making it a triangle might make it more awkward but i can understand your concern: i'll get some other opinions on it as well
00:09:979 (1,2,3) - I think you should just make these flow in a straight motion...having antiflow here doesn't make sense much, since nothing is being emphasized in the song. Your flow shouldn't emphasize anything either. the sound is being "pulled back" (this is how i hear it i don't know how to describe it), hence the flow, it doesn't really flow bad for player and fits song so i would like to keep: however if this is a concern i'll just ctrl g it i just like the cool interaction with the song
00:14:806 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - I think this kind of goes against the theme of a hi-speed difficulty...shouldn't they be much faster? addressed
00:19:634 (1,2) - The SV here is weird too, since the sound is the same as previous instances, yet you make this one really fast in SV. addressed
00:34:806 (3) - I feel like this would be a good place to raise the SV to fit a hi-speed theme. Feels very slow and underwhelming. addressed
01:08:599 (1,1,1) - This would be a good instance where antiflow would work really nicely to emphasize the sounds you were mapping. Something like this https://puu.sh/v3aDs/b1c9ffed7d.png feels way more strong and powerful compared to smooth motion, and there's also a part of a song to justify it. sure changed to your suggestion
01:17:910 (1,2,3,4,1) - Increase spacing here? Feels very weak with how this diff is designed, especially since you increased the spacing on instances like 01:18:513 (1,2) -. it would be awkward to make this higher spacing imo, plus it is building in this segment
01:41:703 (1,2,1) - 1 and 2 should probably go in the same direction...I think it's going to be very confusing for players if they go in opposite directions. IMO it looks nicer too! https://puu.sh/v3aJ1/b9d29e1a33.png ctrlg'd as suggested

[Expert]
00:08:255 (1,2,3,4,1) - Same instance where there isn't a sound on 4 so it shouldn't be emphasized that much. thinking on it

Didn't find much wrong, well done!! I like this difficulty a lot. thank you!

[Extra]

01:14:461 (1,2,3,4,1) - This should probably be 1/8th. explained in unhinged

Really nice <3 thanks ( ◕‿◕✿)

Lower diffs look fine too! I'm guessing you needed help on the higher diffs, anyway. you guessed correct

Best of luck!! thanks xilver!

Ascendance

Elite Mapper

4,225 posts

Joined July 2013

Ascendance 2017-04-01T05:08:22+00:00

when u hav a difficulty that's nonmeta and rly hard to understand but u decline 90% of mods on it its myst yle:dd

ok but yea ctb

Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-04-01T18:25:03+00:00

Ascendance wrote:
when u hav a difficulty that's nonmeta and rly hard to understand but u decline 90% of mods on it its myst yle:dd

ok but yea ctb

my map makes objective sense: not your sense

if you dont understand my point of view after reading my mod replies its you that has the problem, not the map

do you want me to make my map worse just for the sake of accepting mods? or defend my position and give an explanation behind the thought of every object that is questioned in the map

if you notice that i accept and consider suggestions that make sense to me when thinking about the map as a whole: which included taking some feedback from people like Azer and byfar that isnt listed in the thread due to it being when the map was just one diff

the suggestions i decline either dont make sense in the context of my map or would make the experience worse than what is currently present

i dont want ctb diffs because i know nothing about ctb and already have 11 standard diffs for this map and really dont need to make it multi mode

also from what ive seen ctb diffs just create difficulty and drama for the mapper, so sorry to decline your gd

VINXIS

Featured Artist

3,161 posts

Joined April 2014

VINXIS 2017-04-01T19:34:03+00:00

april fools Lol

Ascendance

Elite Mapper

4,225 posts

Joined July 2013

Ascendance 2017-04-01T21:28:19+00:00

relax it was a prank

didnt want 2 read an essay

Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-04-02T01:25:38+00:00

Asphyxia

osu! Alumni

1,986 posts

Joined June 2012

Asphyxia 2017-04-03T02:27:19+00:00

IRC

04:28 Asphyxia: did you watch AoT S2
04:30 Kaifin: Helo
04:30 Kaifin: no
04:30 Asphyxia: whats wrong with you
04:30 Kaifin: O
04:30 Kaifin: : (
04:30 Kaifin: i modded the speed rank set tho
04:30 Asphyxia: NICE
04:30 Asphyxia: monstrata back at it again
04:31 Asphyxia: let's see if it'll get 6k favourites like Kuria
04:31 *Kaifin is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1247184 DJ Noriken - #MAGiCVLGiRL_TRVP_B3VTZ]
04:31 Kaifin: this is brilliant
04:31 Asphyxia: ill do it after
04:31 *Asphyxia is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/1200235 Sota Fujimori - polygon [Easy]]
04:33 Kaifin: nic
04:33 Asphyxia: 00:00:324 (1) -
04:33 Asphyxia: whats wrong with U
04:33 Kaifin: what do u mean
04:34 Asphyxia: maybe it's too hard to put normal 1/1 rhythms in an easy in that spot
04:34 Kaifin: we are off 2 a good start
04:34 Asphyxia: personally speaking tho spinner is kinda dull xd
04:34 Kaifin: all first 4 diffs start with spinner
04:34 Asphyxia:

!
04:35 Asphyxia: nevermindthen
04:35 Kaifin: Themed
04:35 Asphyxia: 00:23:772 (3,3) - if you want to you can fix that stack rly small
04:35 Kaifin: fuk this would be a bitch to fix
04:35 Kaifin: lemme see if i can
04:36 Kaifin: jk it wasnt
04:36 Kaifin: except now i have to fix the blanket 2
04:36 Asphyxia: blankets are easy np
04:36 Asphyxia: 00:36:875 (2,3,4) - I feel like a lot of hitsounds are missing here
04:36 Asphyxia: no claps whatsoever
04:36 Asphyxia: 00:37:220 - could be a clap here unless you're following something else?
04:36 Asphyxia: 00:37:910 - here too
04:36 Asphyxia: 00:38:599 - ^
04:37 Kaifin: i copied fanhands diff
04:37 Kaifin: so there is probably claps missing in lower diffs
04:38 Asphyxia: if you think claps fit those spots, just remember them, maybe copy them into a banchobot PM and then add claps to all diffs
04:38 Asphyxia: after the session
04:38 Asphyxia: thats how I do hitsound consistency
04:39 Asphyxia: 00:54:117 (3,1) - I don't think these should be rhythmically the same, mainly because 00:55:496 (1) - has many more sounds inside the slider body compared to 00:54:117 (3) -
04:39 Asphyxia: imo 1/1 would be better
04:39 Asphyxia: instead of 2/1
04:40 Kaifin: i think that the 2/1 fits better for intensity
04:40 Kaifin: i dont think 1/1 fits the intensity of the song in this segment
04:40 Kaifin: also i'll just manually run through every diff after we're done
04:40 Kaifin: and fix the hitsounds
04:40 Kaifin: something i need to do so
04:40 Asphyxia: I just think having those as the same rhythm is really wrong
04:40 Asphyxia: but you do you
04:41 Kaifin: the snapping is actually here 00:55:755 -
04:41 Kaifin: so i couldnt make them 1/1
04:41 Kaifin: so its the best work around i can do while keeping it simple imo
04:41 Kaifin: since they all start and end on 2/1 beats
04:41 Asphyxia: I suppose
04:42 Asphyxia: rest is cool
04:43 *Asphyxia is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/1213580 Sota Fujimori - polygon [Normal]]
04:43 Kaifin: ook
04:43 Asphyxia: 00:27:910 (1) - dont really like the heavy curve, maybe there's a reason as why this is so curved but
04:43 Kaifin: okok*
04:43 Asphyxia: imo would be cooler if it was less curved
04:43 Asphyxia: so it'd fit better with sliders like
04:43 Asphyxia: 00:23:082 (2) -
04:44 Asphyxia: esp cuz it's the only one and doesn't rly have significant sound on it
04:44 Kaifin: this might sound really dumb but because of like how the sound sounds i wanted to make it more curved
04:44 Kaifin: how the beat becomes more muted
04:45 Kaifin: i could change it to look like the normal sliders but that was what i was going for
04:45 Kaifin: also to provide a very clear indication that you're supposed to click the head of 00:28:599 (2) -
04:45 Kaifin: so it doesn't get confusing
04:45 Asphyxia: 01:06:530 (1) - maybe blanket it around 01:04:806 (2) - ? kinda looks sloppy atm
04:45 Kaifin: sure
04:46 Asphyxia: also a lot of your diffs have the break at 01:09:289 -
04:46 Asphyxia: have you ever thought about extending the break start to 01:09:289 - ?
04:46 Asphyxia: would be a cool effect I think
04:46 Asphyxia: small one but cool
04:46 Kaifin: yes that is good idea
04:47 Kaifin: will apply to all diffs with the break
04:47 Asphyxia: yay
04:47 Kaifin: hows this
04:47 Kaifin: http://puu.sh/v7ryd/7b98f5696a.jpg
04:47 Asphyxia: I assume it's good, you'd need to show me the circle (2) with it though
04:47 Kaifin: o it blankets the cirlce dw
04:47 Asphyxia: alright
04:48 Asphyxia: 01:52:737 - skipping this sound is kinda meh imo but
04:48 Asphyxia: can't really help it I guess?
04:48 Asphyxia: I'd put a note there but maybe not for you
04:48 Kaifin: i could make a slider art?
04:48 Kaifin: from 01:52:737 - to 01:53:341 -
04:49 Asphyxia: that would be okay imo
04:49 Kaifin: and stack the note on the slider end of 01:51:703 (4) -
04:49 Asphyxia: up to you what you prefer
04:49 Kaifin: i think the finality of it is good
04:49 Kaifin: as is
04:49 Kaifin: cause the song kind of just abruptly ends
04:49 Kaifin: u feel me
04:49 Kaifin: also im shit at making sliders

04:50 *Asphyxia is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/1228200 Sota Fujimori - polygon [Hard]]
04:50 Kaifin: okay so can i keep this ar 6
04:50 Asphyxia: 00:13:686 - this kinda bothered me because it's very audible
04:50 Kaifin: cause i really want to
04:50 Kaifin: but if i cant i wont
04:50 Asphyxia: uh
04:51 Kaifin: cause 2468
04:51 Kaifin: ar
04:51 Asphyxia: I can't really say yet because I haven't looked at the entire diff
04:51 Kaifin: okok
04:51 Kaifin: let me know what you think
04:51 Kaifin: cause i can up it to ar 7
04:51 Kaifin: if you think its too dense in the kiai areas
04:52 Kaifin: also, it would be very very very hard to make that a pattern if i didnt simplify those to triples
04:52 Kaifin: io
04:52 Kaifin: imo
04:54 Kaifin: also i think the interpretation of them as repeat triples is ok for the sound
04:54 Kaifin: despite the audible drum beat
04:54 Asphyxia: yee
04:55 Asphyxia: 00:56:703 (1,2,3) -
04:55 Asphyxia: this feels really awkward
04:55 Asphyxia: mainly because the 00:56:875 - is covered by the repea
04:55 Asphyxia: I'd rather have a slider go from 00:56:875 - to 00:57:134 -
04:55 Asphyxia: than this imo
04:56 Kaifin: i can make it a slider
04:56 Kaifin: do you think a slider starting at 2 and ending at 3
04:56 Kaifin: would be good solution
04:57 Kaifin: like this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7726207
04:57 Asphyxia: I think it's better, yeah, but doesn't really fix the main issue imo
04:57 Asphyxia: cuz I'd like the stanza to be emphasized as a clickable object
04:58 Kaifin: that makes sense
04:58 Kaifin: then i could just make it a triple
04:58 Kaifin: triple into 3 circles
04:59 Kaifin: or this
04:59 Kaifin: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7726212
04:59 Asphyxia: 01:21:617 - hitsound sounds rly off here btw idk why maybe its my ears
04:59 Kaifin: i think i like this better
04:59 Asphyxia: yea thats nice
04:59 Asphyxia: I'd prefer that better
05:00 Asphyxia: also not sure how your hitsounds go but check for consistency and see if it's intentional because the 01:21 spot has a whistle with drum sampleset
05:00 Asphyxia: while 01:24:117 (4) - 's end doesn't
05:01 Kaifin: fanzhen y
05:01 Kaifin: ok fixed
05:01 Kaifin: ill check consistency across the board for all diffs
05:01 Asphyxia: also for me
05:01 Asphyxia: the diff is fine with ar6, but then you have stuff like 01:42:392 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) -
05:02 Asphyxia: and I imagine that being somewhat difficult to read with ar6
05:02 Kaifin: i think i will make it ar 7
05:02 Kaifin: that is still quite low ar
05:02 Asphyxia: so my request would be to maybe ask 1-2 people who play hard diffs to play your map
05:02 Asphyxia: like a random person from #osu would be fine
05:02 Asphyxia: and see how they do
05:02 Asphyxia: imo
05:02 Kaifin: okay i could do that as well
05:02 Kaifin: i got my roommate
05:02 Kaifin: to play my normal
05:02 Asphyxia: yea exactly
05:02 Kaifin: to prove the stacks were ok lol
05:03 Asphyxia: just dont say anything beforehand you ask them'
05:03 Asphyxia: otherwise it may lead into some sort of bias
05:03 Kaifin: im just going to change it to 7 tbh
05:03 Kaifin: because it seems a bit too dense to me as well
05:03 Kaifin: i made normal 4.5 as well
05:04 *Asphyxia is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/1236720 Sota Fujimori - polygon [Insane]]
05:04 Asphyxia: would you be willing to do hp6 or 5.5?
05:04 Asphyxia: kinda weird to have same hp setting on hard and Insane
05:04 Asphyxia: should be gradually getting harder in every way
05:05 Kaifin: could i make normal hp 3
05:05 Kaifin: hard hp 4?
05:05 Kaifin: instead?
05:05 Kaifin: or do you think hp 4 is too low for hard
05:05 Asphyxia: uh
05:06 Asphyxia: idk up to you I dont mind your choice but
05:06 Asphyxia: I just feel like insane should have higher hp
05:06 Kaifin: okay, i will buff insane + fanzhen hp then
05:06 Kaifin: same with extra
05:06 Kaifin: 5.5 6 and 6 respectively
05:06 Asphyxia: just my opinion
05:06 Kaifin: also im applying mods for fanzhen if you wanted to touch on his diff as well
05:06 Asphyxia: if you think they're too much
05:06 Asphyxia: the hp values
05:06 Kaifin: its god tier
05:06 Asphyxia: nerf them back to old ones
05:07 Asphyxia: cant rly test diffs rn so
05:07 Kaifin: okay
05:07 Kaifin: if the whole set has high hp values, i don't mind
05:07 Asphyxia: 00:29:289 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
05:07 Asphyxia: I feel like
05:07 Asphyxia: going from hard to this might feel like a big step
05:07 Asphyxia: but maybe just me
05:08 Asphyxia: for me I'd make it less dense but
05:08 Asphyxia: like 2 notes -> 1/4 slider -> 2 notes etc
05:08 Asphyxia: but up2you
05:08 Kaifin: well this is relatively low bpm
05:08 Asphyxia: idk if 174 is considered low tho
05:08 Asphyxia: but
05:08 Kaifin: and the hard had some decently dense rhythms in the kiai times
05:08 Asphyxia: you decide
05:08 Kaifin: i will think about it
05:09 Kaifin: if it ends up being too intense i'll do double -> 1/4 slider
05:09 Asphyxia: yea
05:09 Kaifin: i just wanted to emphasize some like baby finger control in this diff
05:09 Kaifin: because there are longer 1/4 streams in the fanzhen diff
05:09 Asphyxia: I like the general theme so far of your diffs
05:09 Asphyxia: it's like
05:09 Asphyxia: taking an idea to the next lvl with every diff
05:09 Asphyxia: so far
05:09 Kaifin: thanks!
05:09 Asphyxia: 01:36:875 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - I know you talked about hard dense stuff but
05:10 Asphyxia: you introduced triplets only
05:10 Asphyxia: maybe 8 note stream isnt the best
05:10 Asphyxia: but
05:10 Asphyxia: like said up to you
05:10 Kaifin: true, i might change this stream
05:10 Kaifin: its just hard because its like
05:10 Kaifin: the most intense part of the whole song
05:10 Asphyxia: yea ik
05:10 Kaifin: so i don't know if its a justified spike at the end
05:10 Kaifin: or if its too intense for the dif
05:10 Kaifin: f
05:11 Asphyxia: this might sound really difficult to apply but
05:11 Asphyxia: 01:52:737 (1) - you know this slider
05:11 Kaifin: there is like quite a bit of 1/4 in fanzhen diff so you can judge by seeing that spread
05:11 Kaifin: yes this slider
05:11 Asphyxia: what would be insanely cool is that you'd put 01:52:910 - red points in your slider at this point
05:11 Asphyxia: so it'd create this buzzing feeling to it without being unrankable
05:11 Asphyxia: 01:53:082 - and then would stop it here
05:11 Asphyxia: but that's like
05:11 Asphyxia: hard to do so idk if you wanna
05:11 Kaifin: oooo i see what you mean
05:12 Kaifin: i have no clue how to make that slider
05:12 Kaifin: and also make it not ugly as FUCK
05:12 Asphyxia: LOL
05:13 Asphyxia: also I don't think I have anything to suggest in fanzhen diff because I like it too much
05:13 Asphyxia: I think it's perfect as it is
05:13 Kaifin: wait this looks ok i think
05:13 Kaifin: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7726272
05:13 Kaifin: the buzz goes up and down
05:13 Kaifin: with the buzz
05:13 Asphyxia: the end is horrible curve-wise
05:13 Asphyxia: but middle is cool
05:13 Kaifin: yeah i fixed the end
05:14 Kaifin: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7726277
05:14 Asphyxia: still kinda wonky but better
05:14 Kaifin: yes i love the fanzhen diff
05:15 *Asphyxia is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/1213579 Sota Fujimori - polygon [Extra]]
05:15 Asphyxia: 01:19:289 -
05:15 Asphyxia: aaaaa nfioshklfalfgshklfghiklashiklafhklashlfkhjklf
05:15 Asphyxia: thats like
05:16 Asphyxia: trigger to next lvl
05:17 Kaifin: ???
05:17 Kaifin: what do you mean
05:17 Asphyxia: my BEATY
05:17 Asphyxia: beat
05:17 Asphyxia: its
05:17 Asphyxia: like
05:17 Asphyxia: it's calling my name
05:17 Asphyxia: ''place a note on me please...''
05:18 Kaifin: there is no beat there???? ?? ?? ??// /? ?
05:18 Asphyxia: well xd
05:18 Asphyxia: I listened to it so many times with 25% playback rate that
05:18 Asphyxia: there's definitely a sound
05:18 Kaifin: O
05:18 Kaifin: i hear it
05:18 Kaifin: now
05:19 Kaifin: yea but i am following the vocal
05:19 Asphyxia: ye ik just kinda awkwards imo
05:19 Kaifin: it would be so weird and off to put a clickable beat there
05:19 *Asphyxia is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/1220396 Sota Fujimori - polygon [Expert]]
05:19 Asphyxia: I can't really commeont on these diffs too much cuz way out of my league but
05:19 Asphyxia: I'm sure you tested stuff like 00:58:513 (4,1) -
05:19 Asphyxia: but you should be careful with them
05:19 Asphyxia: spacing is kinda huge
05:20 Kaifin: that isnt too bad coming out of slider because of the slow
05:20 Kaifin: errr flow*
05:20 Kaifin: and sliders are really really leniant at this bpm
05:20 Kaifin: for stuff like that
05:20 Asphyxia: maybe im dumb but
05:20 Asphyxia: i find it easy to go from a slider to a note
05:20 Asphyxia: cuz sliders
05:21 Asphyxia: but note into a slider is like
05:21 Asphyxia: way harder
05:24 Asphyxia: alright well that's all I have for your set really
05:24 Asphyxia: the higher end diffs look good enough and I don't really wanna touch them cuz I'd be pointing out subjective visual stuff
05:24 Kaifin: okok
05:24 Asphyxia: and it's like
05:24 Asphyxia: they're fine as they are rn imo
05:25 Kaifin: thank you!

Good map

Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-04-03T02:47:57+00:00

Xilver wrote:
[Fanzhen]

00:58:255 - Feels a bit late to introduce this theme in your map, but it's a nice touch. I like it. im hard
01:52:953 (1) - Recommend buffering that slider. the rhythm here was off by 1/8 so i fixed it

Looks fine. FINE AF
VINXIS wrote:
fanzhen
00:25:927 (5,6) - lol iof u ctrl g itd hav that criss cross feel to it and itd b cooler u feel wot im sayin ya but the theming is like this for the first half and criss cross for the second half so no
00:40:324 - y r the synth sounds on the sliderends and not on the sliderheads like how they are evrywher elseLol cause they're interpreting the rhythm in a way that makes the clickable part of these sliders the most emphasized, thats why they're in that different flow too
01:39:634 (1,1) - uneven !! i think i fixed it
01:52:953 (1) - nice buffer u sHIT : / ya i fixed it
ChronoNig wrote:
fahzhen's Another

00:09:979 (1) - NC agree
01:07:910 (1) - ^ agree
01:28:427 (6) - pull this up a bit? disagree
Zel wrote:
fanzhen's Another
inb4 404 mod not found

00:07:910 (1,2,3,4,5) - this would be better as a straight line imo to match aes of before section the sound is different, thus the shape is as well
00:10:668 (1,2,3) - would move 2 down so it makes the flow seem nice http://i.imgur.com/vMgb5ir.png but the flow being like that matches the sound really well
01:01:530 (4,5,6,7,8) - this stream looks sloppy, I would reproduce this stream instead 01:03:772 (1,2,3,4,5) - the stream is mirroring the slider
01:33:599 (4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - this stream looks pretty off 01:33:599 (4,5,6,7) - part 1 of stream 01:33:944 (8,9,1) - part 2 of stream, maybe ill make this more distinct if another modder mentions but honestly seems fine to me

i lov u fanzheni love u too my son

applied mods for fanhands

revurii

42 posts

Joined March 2014

revurii 2017-04-03T04:16:31+00:00

- Yoshimaro - wrote:
00:59:979 (1,2,3,4,5) - 01:05:496 (1,2,3,4,5) - although i dont really know what to suggest, i think something should be done about these combos to make the polygon sliders more readable. as it is now, its really easy to confuse when to tap because it looks like the slider is a continuation of the same rhythm of the first 4 notes. Sliders don't have a hit window (and I don't like Score V2 either).

VINXIS wrote:
01:07:910 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - WOT A MESS!!!!!!!!! ((((((((((((( Hey it works lol.
01:18:944 (1,1,1,2) - nice slider buffer u fucj ; / Applied + for similar stuff too.
01:41:789 (1) - do u think ur funny with dat Nc and lack of slider buffer,,,, Fixed it m'boi.
01:52:910 (2) - FUCK uA%^j76fqsc rt Fixed uwu

Xilver wrote:
00:59:117 (4,5,6) - Consider moving 5 upward instead? You have a really wide angle here which doesn't emphasize anything since there's nothing to be emphasized in the song. You could also do a nice overlap with 00:58:513 (4) - https://puu.sh/v3bdg/4a24081ab0.png It's emphasizing the clap sound.
01:08:427 (1,2,1) - I think you should move this more upward. The stream kind of looks really messy, not to mention it would fit your angle placements better. https://puu.sh/v3bhM/da99e6701d.png I went for this kind of flow so moving it there would ruin it.
01:11:703 (1) - This could probably be another 1/8th repeat, I think? Doesn't sound like a buzz to me.
01:30:841 (1,1,1,1) - No need to NC all notes, I think the reduced spacing is a good enough indicator. Just changed it into a repeat.
01:42:048 (1,2,3) - This is a bit too much xd. I think reducing it would work better, this seems like a huuuuuge spike at the moment, for not THAT much emphasis going on in the song. Reduced it a bit. I still wanted the kind of emphasis it had so the movement is still the same.

loli do ur shit pls

xLolicore-

636 posts

Joined June 2014

xLolicore- 2017-04-03T12:30:01+00:00

oF UK its omar kamal,

VINXIS wrote:
00:01:703 (1) - thts not even btw and it doesnt rly blanket 00:01:531 (4) - ur write
00:02:565 (1,1) - thts not stackd btw reEEEE U TRIGGRD MWE
00:03:341 (1) - this is wot u call bad rhythm wher u start a slider thts 1/4 length on a blu tik and then u end it on a big nic juicy fine ass white tik tht is much stronger than the fuking blu tik Lol, it happens a few more times but yea itsRetard. yea idk wat to do but remove the sliders lo
00:03:513 (1) - Bad blu Tick nc. g
00:06:272 (1) - Bad blu Tick nc. G
etc blue tik ncs r fuking BAD and almost never work and they suk aestheticlly anywy which is y ther done 99% of the time Thank I Am Sorry Mr Kamal I'm Just Really Addicted To Ncing Lolz
00:11:358 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - is the spacing for emphasizing smth or wot yeha but i kinda fukd it up LO, will redo it sometime
00:12:996 (1,1) - btw the small slider deosnt balnket the wavy slider u sud try tht Xd u fukn kiddign me,
00:14:030 (4) - jokes this note is nonexistant im disbld ok,
00:35:324 (1,1) - lol itd b more meme if they wer stackd for tht sik stop motion flow ACTION i blame u if ppl combo break from the spacing
00:48:944 (1) - y is this ncd Lol im actually gay
00:50:324 (1) - Lol yea me 2
u go overboard with the ncing for no reason >: ( yea i lik nightcoring stuff thb so sry

tHANKS1!
~~holy shit just shoot me~~

Xilver wrote:
Hello! From queue o7 Apologies for short delay~
[Lolirii]

00:11:358 - Feels a bit weird to have a stream going on the same sounds where you didn't do a stream previously. Did that make sense? I don't really hear anything in the song to justify a stream, either. I can hear the sounds faintly so I added a stream to it, I should probably reduce the spacing of the jump streams at the beginning though.
00:23:082 (1,2,1,2,1) - These should probably be jumps, to be consistent with your theme in the previous sections. The synth gets weaker too. tru
00:44:979 (4,4) - You should probably overlap this, looks a bit ugly right now. ouch you're right
00:50:209 (2,3,1) - Don't think this is 1/6, just regular 1/4. a bit ehhh on this one but I guess I'll apply the change
00:51:875 (1) - Remove NC? o tru
00:55:726 (2,3,1) - Same here. Just 1/4 same thing

Ty for mod w

Updated Collab Expert

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Title:polygon
TitleUnicode:polygon
Artist:Sota Fujimori
ArtistUnicode:日本原声带
Creator:Kaifin
Version:Lolirii's Collab Expert
Source:jubeat copious
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Bonzi

213 posts

Joined January 2012

Bonzi 2017-04-03T20:03:09+00:00

fieryrage wrote:
dfa
bonzi buddy
honestly this should prob be ar 10 too but kaifin is mad so he wont do ar 10 on his diff smhyeah i'd make this either 9.9 or 9.8 just to make the overlaps reading hell and the kiai less anal to go through, but idk if kaifin would be okay with my diff's ar surpassing his one.

00:01:186 (2) - wouldn't it make more sense to have the 1/4 here instead of 00:01:013 (1) - here? doesn't really make much of a difference in my opinion, also doesn't the way like it is now just make a simpler rhythm to understand?
00:13:599 (1) - this sounds like 1/16 or 1/12 rather than 1/8 tbhuhhh that strange snapping sound starts at 00:13:686 - , right when 00:13:599 (1) - ends, so it shouldn't really be a problem to just ignore it and not complicate things with another slider(since 00:13:772 (2) - is definitely 1/8 above all else).
00:36:530 (1) - ok this entire section until 00:47:220 (1) - honestly i am 100% not a fan of how you use slow sliders here, i definitely get the purpose but the rhythm is almost identical to the sections before it if not more intense and randomly adding slow sliders here doesn't really intensify it at all, it just makes it hard as hell to play; this isn't really a stop-and-go alt map introduced in the first 30 seconds but then it just suddenly turns into one and goes back to what it used to be for the next minute so like umtbh i kinda saw it coming. The previous section beign basically the opposite of this one doesn't really help either. Still, the stuff before this section isn't really entirely speed-consistent ( it kinda changes every 15 seconds or so, from start to 00:14:030 - beign consistent speed, from 00:14:117 - to 00:25:151 - beign variable speed, and then from 00:25:151 - beign speed consistent once again). I think the first quarter of this section (00:36:186 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - does a decent job telling what kind of stuff you're going to face next, even without a proper introduction beforehand. I might change stuff in the second half of this section though, some of it might be just a lil bit too painful too play. Still surprised that 00:14:461 (1) - 00:25:151 (1) - section failed to tell that this map would be all over the place
00:56:875 (2) - move nc here instead of slider before? sure
01:02:220 (5) - nc hm okay
01:18:944 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - holy fuck and that's how you know you're playing a high quality low quality beatmap
01:20:668 (1,4) - overlap is bad xd can i just raise the ar and pretend overlaps and stacks reading clusterfucks are not a problem
01:21:703 (3,1) - this stack sorta makes this entire pattern play like hot garbage, i would just make this separate of the previous pattern instead of stackingthat kinda defeats the whole point of it if i want that to be stop and go; having it anywhere else would not have the same feeling
01:24:461 (3,1) - ^ yea ^
01:27:220 (3,1) - ^ yea u get the point or something i just dont like this stop and go out of nowhere when it wasnt in the song b4 like this
01:32:392 (5) - nc for consistency + the following sections unless intentional then gjyeah it's intentional xd
01:32:996 (2,1) - where's the claps helo i dont know man its just copied hitsounds applied from top diff i think all other diffs are like this lol
01:35:755 (2,1) - ok no where are the CLAPS IDK XD
01:44:461 (5) - nc okay
01:46:530 (5) - ^ ye
01:52:565 (1,1) - pretty disorienting stack considering the stuff before it, i wouldnt stack here honestly fair enough

Zel wrote:
Bonzi's Extreme
this diff makes me horny <3

00:02:048 (3) - i would make this a return slider that would probably add confusion and nothing more just to accomodate another sound
00:07:737 (3,4) - these dont stack :'( yeah i know. got any suggestions?
00:14:979 (1,1,1) - no need to NC these (neat pattern btw) it's better with nc than otherwise. without them ncs it would be more difficult to tell that a quite a big sv change is about to happen
00:17:737 (1,1,1) - also deez ^
00:23:255 (1,1) - ^ ^
00:37:910 (1,1) - isnt it unrankable to have two sliders overlap each other before they fade out? it is, but i think it hardly applies here because the next slider is visible by the time you've cleared the previous one. Moved a bit anyway.
00:44:720 (2,1) - kind of odd to have this large jump when the rest of the doubles that have this same beat are mapped like 00:43:341 (4,1) - it simply mimics 00:36:186 (1,2) -
01:00:151 (1) - the song is still going after this slider, its a cool concept but it should start one bar later and go with everything else on red/white ticks except that one? ehhh not really a good idea imo. at the very least i could add a repeat but idk about that.
01:05:668 (1) - samsies ^
01:20:324 (1) - LOL dude this kiai is so fkn rad And that's how i'll get the title of "Least Played Difficulty On The Mapset"
01:42:134 (1,1) - dont need to NC these, players will this its 1/3 hmm not really. On the contrary, i think they do a decent job at telling that a weird and different pattern is about to approach (given the huge spacing of that thing)

VINXIS wrote:
bonzi buddy
00:05:410 (2,3) - 00:07:996 (1,2) - 00:10:755 (1,2) - these play like fugggggin Cancer for no reason my dude Lol wtf!!!! y u do dis!!!!! (i can understand the buildup to 00:11:530 - but look at ur first pattern ther Lol its almost completely stackd and it doesnt hav a shity angle ; /) 00:05:410 (2,3) - is kinda crappy, i agree. The movement is kind of unnatural and requires a lot of focus not to break on. Will try to work with that. 00:08:255 (3,4) - is okay-ish, the problem there is the spacing of the 3-4 transition beign too small and surprising when compared to 2-3. If i take 4 away from 3, then the spacing between 4 and the next pattern would be massive. idk what to do with that. BUT, VINXIS, BUT. WITH 00:10:755 (1,2,3) - , I HAVE REUNVEILED THE FLOW OF THE OLD GODS, AND THIS PATTERN HAS ACHIEVED THE STATE OF FLOWCALLY PERFECT. HOW DARE YOU, LOWLY MORTAL, CAME TO EVEN THINK OF POINTING OUT THAT PATTERN, WHICHST'VE'D CONQUERED THE REALM OF LIVING? THE ACTION OF THINE TRULY AND CERTAINLY SPEAK FOR A FOOL, WHOMS'T COULDN'T'ST'VE'D EVEN BEGIN TO REALIZE THE FATAL MISTAKE HE WAS ABOUT TO COMMIT. THY PRIVILEGE OF THINE BREATHING SHALL BE RETRACTED FOR THE TIME BEIGN, AS FOR SEVERE PUNISHMENT FOR ATTEMPTING TO DEFAME THE GLORY THAT IS THE FLOW OF THE OLD GOD.
00:13:772 (2) - y rhte last 2 repeats ther when theyr nonexistant oh siht
01:20:324 - this is wher i close the editor so thats why u did my map for last

Xilver wrote:
[Bonzi]

00:24:203 (4) - Consider reducing SV a little to indicate this is a 1/8th slider better? Change for all other instances, too. changed for time a few other places
Nothing else, really @_@ This diff is really well made!! thanks bby

thanks everyone

d

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Artist:Sota Fujimori
ArtistUnicode:日本原声带
Creator:Kaifin
Version:Bonzi's Extreme
Source:jubeat copious
Tags:REFLEC BEAT colette autumn kancolle fanzhen0019 bonzi revurii xlolicore-
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Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-04-03T23:21:57+00:00

Hitsounds have been fully fixed and applied to all diffs: bring on the checks

rustbell

483 posts

Joined January 2010

rustbell 2017-04-04T14:33:26+00:00

Artist: 日本原声带
plz remove it tbh or you can check the meaning by translator lLOLOOLLO

VINXIS

Featured Artist

3,161 posts

Joined April 2014

VINXIS 2017-04-04T16:39:17+00:00

1234567890

Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-04-04T16:41:40+00:00

Totori wrote:
Artist: 日本原声带
plz remove it tbh or you can check the meaning by translator lLOLOOLLO

I GOT TROLLED BY THE SIONKOTORI METADATA LOL

fixing + grabbing metadata link when i get online

Yoshimaro

539 posts

Joined January 2014

Yoshimaro 2017-04-07T09:32:36+00:00

@Bonzi diff

rip melloe's young fresh and foolish anus 2017

Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-04-08T07:13:32+00:00

hitsounds in slow section unfucked in higher difficulties

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2017-04-08T08:28:57+00:00

unhinged

00:03:341 (3,4,1) - This flows really poorly imo. Really expected something top/left to compliment the counterclockwise movement you had set up with 00:02:737 (1,1,2,3) -

Visualization of what i mean. this is what i would have expected

00:04:117 (1,2,3) - The spacing here seems really unnecessary to me. Actually, even using a circle on the blue tick felt unnecessary let alone a 1/4 jump here. Can I hear your reasoning for such a drastic movement? Because 00:04:203 - has very little support if any at all... Listen to it at like 50% playback, nothing lands on that note. The same can be said for 00:04:892 (4,5) - . I think the overmap just feels really blatant, and you use really difficult 1/4 movement here too, which makes it stand out even further.
00:05:151 (1,2,3,4) - This is a doublet rhythm. Since the diff is trying to be technical, you could emphasize the blue tick on 00:05:237 - instead.

Rhythm like this instead

00:05:841 (1,2,3) - The jump and circular movement you set up really causes players to want to play out slider 3. I think positioning 00:06:358 (1,2) - in a way that would encourage this movement would be more interesting. Right now you break flow on slider 3, and it benefits the player not to play the slider out but instead jump rightward. It causes your circular movement to really go to waste here.

Just an idea

00:08:255 (1,2,3) - This I can understand. Here the 1/4 would make sense. But stuff like 00:07:479 (3,4,5) - , its just overmapped. You can see how similar these two patterns are, yet one is clearly supported while one is not. If they play similarly, it causes the pattern that actually does have 1/4 support to feel like any pattern, whereas it should be emphasized and made to stand out.
00:09:634 (1,2,3) - Same, stuff like this just isn't supported at all imo.
00:10:410 (4,5) - Etc... I'm going to stop now, because issue of overmapping is just repeating itself.
00:13:772 (1,2,3,4) - One of these is not like the other (4) use a 1/4 slider for 3 isntead?
00:14:806 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - The sliders are good. Your decision to switch to circles is really odd though. Especially considering how you mapped 00:18:599 (1,2) - afterward. It's an unnecessary shift in rhythm that creates an inconsistency.
00:23:600 (2,1,1,2,3,4,1) - This is good though. The circle on 00:23:772 (1) - allows you to break into the stream rhythm since you allow the players to recognize theres a shift in rhythm due to there being a circle rather than a slider. If you want to integrate streams, you could do something like this instead.
00:25:151 (1,2,3,1,2) - The SV changes here don't seem necessary at all... rather, they make it seem like different rhythms are being used doe to their noticeably different lengths.
00:29:289 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - The double rhythm is really hard to read here. honestly, none of the rhythm layers here uses exclusively doubles. For example, there's a note on 00:29:720 - which separates it from the doublet you use on 00:29:289 (1,2) - .Additinally, following that double rhythm, it should actually be like 00:29:979 - circle here. and circle here instead.

This rhythm would work better.

00:32:737 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - If anything, don't the 1/4's fade out with the linear stream? shouldn't spacing get smaller if anything not bigger?
00:34:979 (1,1) - Yea, these aren't really supported at all, mapping those 1/4 jumps just feel really overmapped.
00:38:427 (1,2,1,2) - Really odd that you don't map the white tick considering you could actually map something 1/4 jumpy onto it for emphasis lol.
00:40:151 (2,1,2,1,2,1) - Man, i wish you did more stuff like this. This is really good. Great flow and angle usage lol.
00:52:737 (1) - Ca't believe im saying this, but this slider is really undermapped for the density of the rhythms you've been mapping to so far.
00:57:737 (1,2) - Can you space the two sliders out more? I think its really easy to misread this as 1/4 streams due to how you've utilized 1/4's so far.
01:15:496 (1,2) - You could make these denser too, considering the 1/4's you've been using so far. The shift to such simple sliders is a bit odd.
01:18:772 (1,2,1) - If you had put 01:19:030 (1) - on the white tick and mapped that jump, i would have been perfectly fine with it. Actually I would have said it fit amazingly well here.
01:25:582 (2,3) - At least ctrl+g? The flowbreak onto 2 isn't really warranted at all, and I think people are going to play that 1/4 square with at least a bit of rotating movement instead of just aiming at the center. 01:29:634 (1,2,3) - Is much better.
01:29:979 (1,1,2,1,2) - This movement is considerably harder than 01:27:220 (1,1,2,1,2) - , With 01:27:220 (1,1,2,1,2) - I can land this mouse-only even lol, because while there is a jump onto the circle, the movement from circle > slider is very smooth. With 01:29:979 (1,1,2,1,2) - though, you are forced to break flow playing the slider ontop of snapping to it.

This is an idea you can try. Simple flow onto the circle this time, and sharper flow playing the slider

01:30:668 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Not a good movement imo. There is little to no flow here. The other patterns you used (in this same melody) were a lot better because they promoted angle shifts, but here it's just uh xP...
01:35:927 (1,2) - The flow here felt kinda odd. I think the direction you point slider 2 throws the flow off. You could try replicating the slider of 01:35:496 (1) - and do something like this: It'll continue the counterclockwise movement here rather than interrupting it with that sharp rightward movement you currently have.

~

01:47:910 - Not going to map this? ;c or 01:49:289 - ?
01:51:875 (3) - Doublet rhythm here.
Rhythm after the kiai is a bit odd, but manageable, just some parts that felt like they ended up ignoring strong beats. Given how dense this map is, you can always map those beats out in an unemphasized manner and dictate what later you want the player to follow based on your spacing and rhythm choices.

The kiai is actually quite manageable. There are some places I think are hard to read, but I think anyone who can actually play this diff should have no trouble reading it at least after a 2nd run.

[]

I'll just go through top diff for now and test the waters. Take your time in replying, no rush~

Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-04-08T10:59:01+00:00

Monstrata wrote:
unhinged

00:03:341 (3,4,1) - This flows really poorly imo. Really expected something top/left to compliment the counterclockwise movement you had set up with 00:02:737 (1,1,2,3) - i nerfed this, i hope that it is a satisfactory nerf as i want to keep the same flow: the idea with the patterns like this one in this section (all of them are like this) is that the flow changes circular direction for emphasis on the 00:03:599 - note, thats the kind of emphasis i hear in the song and my interpretation of the sound: here's a paint diagram of the new flow now that i've nerfed it to make it a bit more flowy for the player, green is the counterclockwise flow and blue shows where it switches over
SPOILER

Visualization of what i mean. this is what i would have expected

00:04:117 (1,2,3) - The spacing here seems really unnecessary to me. Actually, even using a circle on the blue tick felt unnecessary let alone a 1/4 jump here. Can I hear your reasoning for such a drastic movement? Because 00:04:203 - has very little support if any at all... Listen to it at like 50% playback, nothing lands on that note. The same can be said for 00:04:892 (4,5) - . I think the overmap just feels really blatant, and you use really difficult 1/4 movement here too, which makes it stand out even further. the first important distinction to make in my opinion is looking at these 1/4 patterns in the context of the map that they in: these are not hard patterns in the context of the rest of my map, these are the easiest 1/4 patterns in the entire map and dumbing down the difficulty in a section of medium intensity of the song would make the map itself inconsistent conceptually. second, the actual reasoning behind the notes and the "ghost note" on the blue tick that is being debated to exist even, the synth wavers on the 00:04:203 note, notice that 00:04:117 - and 00:04:289 - are the same tone, but 00:04:203 - is a completely different one, hence the existance of this note. as for why it's so emphasized + spaced, the first reason for that is the previous point about the entire MAP being difficult and this being a medium intensity point in the song, and the actual motion itself is meant to emphasize this waver in the synth that i mentioned previously, hopefully this was indepth enough to explain, this applies to all other instances of this note in this section: now with ALL OF THAT being said, i nerfed it a bit so that the higher emphasis patterns would have more emphasis LOL
00:05:151 (1,2,3,4) - This is a doublet rhythm. Since the diff is trying to be technical, you could emphasize the blue tick on 00:05:237 - instead.
Rhythm like this instead
i could do this, but there is a very clear note on every tick of this stream, and the small spacing into 00:05:496 (1) - shape and velocity is meant to emphasize the huge POW in the song that comes there, as the drum ticks at 00:05:151 (1,2,3,4) - that i'm mapping to have that muted, underwater sound to them that makes this pattern feel so satisfying to play, using the doublet rhythm won't provide the same tactile feeling/satisfaction + wont represent the sound i'm following here which i believe has the most emphasis in the music
00:05:841 (1,2,3) - The jump and circular movement you set up really causes players to want to play out slider 3. I think positioning 00:06:358 (1,2) - in a way that would encourage this movement would be more interesting. Right now you break flow on slider 3, and it benefits the player not to play the slider out but instead jump rightward. It causes your circular movement to really go to waste here. agreed, i changed this one in a similar fashion to the other pattern of this kind, moving the pattern up to keep true to the original flow while making it much more comfortable for the player
Just an idea

just taking a small space in the middle of your mod to say that i completely reworked the rhythms you mentioned as overmapped in the first segment of the map. the first rhythms i am 100% sure exist as there is literally a different synth note on them, but i agree that they shouldn't be as emphasized as they are so i have nerfed all of them, and instead slowly built up their spacing so that it hopefully works a bit better for you: the second ones after asking some opinions and listening closer myself i agree that it does not exist, and just extended every slider and switched some patterns around

00:08:255 (1,2,3) - This I can understand. Here the 1/4 would make sense. But stuff like 00:07:479 (3,4,5) - , its just overmapped. You can see how similar these two patterns are, yet one is clearly supported while one is not. If they play similarly, it causes the pattern that actually does have 1/4 support to feel like any pattern, whereas it should be emphasized and made to stand out. fixed, addressed above
00:09:634 (1,2,3) - Same, stuff like this just isn't supported at all imo. fixed, addressed above
00:10:410 (4,5) - Etc... I'm going to stop now, because issue of overmapping is just repeating itself. fixed, addressed above
00:13:772 (1,2,3,4) - One of these is not like the other (4) use a 1/4 slider for 3 isntead? you right, buffed the spacing to reflect the new patterning and to emphasize the triple and changed 3 to a kick
00:14:806 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - The sliders are good. Your decision to switch to circles is really odd though. Especially considering how you mapped 00:18:599 (1,2) - afterward. It's an unnecessary shift in rhythm that creates an inconsistency. there is a very very clear difference between the two sounds, with an audible drum/bass (not sure which cause i suk at music terms) click on each of these clickable notes, where as i chose to use sliders for the other due to the lack of that fill being there, and the difference in the synth rhythm
00:23:600 (2,1,1,2,3,4,1) - This is good though. The circle on 00:23:772 (1) - allows you to break into the stream rhythm since you allow the players to recognize theres a shift in rhythm due to there being a circle rather than a slider. If you want to integrate streams, you could do something like this instead. the reason the above has the flow that it does is because of the sound, i want the player to jet right into the fill like the song flies right into it, when you compare to the rather chilled spacing + sound of 00:18:944 - in comparison, this is much more chill pattern because of the peak of intensity that just came at 00:18:599 (1,2), making this dead stop have the right emphasis for this section. I am mentioning this one because i wanted to preemptively talk about the comparison between the two
00:25:151 (1,2,3,1,2) - The SV changes here don't seem necessary at all... rather, they make it seem like different rhythms are being used doe to their noticeably different lengths. ehhhhhhhhh it still has been very clear to every testplayer which sliders are 1/4 and which are 1/2, it is consistent and while i can understand the concern, this is perfectly readable for the player: as for why i did it, i wanted the player to have more movement on the longer sound of 00:25:237 (2), where as the 00:25:496 (1,2) - notes here sound a lot shorter, thus the lower sv which gives the rhythm a denser feel in this section
00:29:289 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - The double rhythm is really hard to read here. honestly, none of the rhythm layers here uses exclusively doubles. For example, there's a note on 00:29:720 - which separates it from the doublet you use on 00:29:289 (1,2) - .Additinally, following that double rhythm, it should actually be like 00:29:979 - circle here. and circle here instead. i really really really need to disagree with you here, listening to the lower synth that i begin following at 00:27:910 - in this doubles segment, you'll find that it follows all but 1 note of the doubles here (00:29:892 - a note which you could argue is implied and simply covered by the clutter of other sounds in this segment), this doubles rhythm exists in basically all of my difficulties of this map and i believe it is the clearest, most intuitive way to map this segment of the song. in terms of pure readability, it always had read fine to playtesters and i find myself that this is fine to read due to how the spacing first decreases with 00:29:289 (1,2,1,2) - before the use of spaced doubles, by the time the spaced doubles come the rhythm is very clear. i tried to use the rhythm that you provided but it just feels overmapped to me listening to the song, while it's technically supported i really dont think it represents the song as well as the current doubles rhythm does
This rhythm would work better.
00:32:737 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - If anything, don't the 1/4's fade out with the linear stream? shouldn't spacing get smaller if anything not bigger? i am trying to keep consistency with 00:27:220 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - which is increasing in spacing due to the sounds in that segment, i understand the sounds are different here but i think that this the sound isnt really a drastic change and the spacing stays quite low, i think the current stream shape here is acceptable given the music
00:34:979 (1,1) - Yea, these aren't really supported at all, mapping those 1/4 jumps just feel really overmapped. there are drum hits on these notes like very very very very loud and clear drum hits, not even like the other ones in the intro where it ended up being slightly questionable and i changed it, these DEFINITELY exist and are supported in the music. now, obviously the two blue tick notes you've highlighted shouldnt have any spacing emphasis on them, which i absolutely agree with! thats why it is patterned in a way that puts all the emphasis on 00:35:065 (2,2) - literally all the emphasis in this segment is on these two notes. you could argue the movement between these two notes 00:34:806 (1,1) - is too far but i'd say it is both warranted and necessary given the intensity of the sounds in the segment. to be double sure, i asked multiple people and these sounds 110% exist with drum beats
00:38:427 (1,2,1,2) - Really odd that you don't map the white tick considering you could actually map something 1/4 jumpy onto it for emphasis lol. that would feel incredibly overmapped and out of place because the whole of this kiai segment is following the rhythm that culminates in this doubles rhythm, the doubles rhythm which is foreshadowed at 00:34:979 - i will note just for reference
00:40:151 (2,1,2,1,2,1) - Man, i wish you did more stuff like this. This is really good. Great flow and angle usage lol. thank you i think that this flow really fits the sound here
00:52:737 (1) - Ca't believe im saying this, but this slider is really undermapped for the density of the rhythms you've been mapping to so far. yes it is, it's supposed to be a hard break in the song's density to provide a small break/buildup which starts here for the new section,
also to follow the massive "flowbreak" in the song itself with this loud jarring sound out of nowhere
00:57:737 (1,2) - Can you space the two sliders out more? I think its really easy to misread this as 1/4 streams due to how you've utilized 1/4's so far. sure spaced em, spaced them in all of their instances except the back and forth ones at 01:05:151 (1,2) - because they are already quite spaced
01:15:496 (1,2) - You could make these denser too, considering the 1/4's you've been using so far. The shift to such simple sliders is a bit odd. hmmmmm maybe it feels a little odd but i really think these space-y sounds need the long holds, i think having these very simple patterns right before the buildup is also good, this is ok as is imo but i could always change it to circles, i think that the holds just add a better feel
01:18:772 (1,2,1) - If you had put 01:19:030 (1) - on the white tick and mapped that jump, i would have been perfectly fine with it. Actually I would have said it fit amazingly well here. let me think about that one as you mod the other diffs, i think the current rhythm is exactly what i'm looking for though following the vocal, it feels kind of meme and too sudden for the player to make sure a jump even with that sound on the white tick, thats not in the forefront of the player's mind when they're playing this rhythm imo. if you think i need to space this more to make it easier to read lemme know but i think rn it is good placement + structure + fine to read so i dont wanna move it
01:25:582 (2,3) - At least ctrl+g? The flowbreak onto 2 isn't really warranted at all, and I think people are going to play that 1/4 square with at least a bit of rotating movement instead of just aiming at the center. 01:29:634 (1,2,3) - Is much better. on the contrary, in my opinion it is way way way more comfortable and satisfying to play with this being a flowbreak from 1-2, the sudden snap is very crisp and satisfying with the sound and since this entire segment has the same circular directional motion its a very satisfying payoff to the "buildup" of the flow of the entire segment. 1/4 jump patterns work when they are incredibly sharply angled and clear, and i think that making this circular flow as well would lose emphasis from the pattern, and also make it harder to hit for the player
01:29:979 (1,1,2,1,2) - This movement is considerably harder than 01:27:220 (1,1,2,1,2) - , With 01:27:220 (1,1,2,1,2) - I can land this mouse-only even lol, because while there is a jump onto the circle, the movement from circle > slider is very smooth. With 01:29:979 (1,1,2,1,2) - though, you are forced to break flow playing the slider ontop of snapping to it. used your suggestion in a tweaked way to fit my structure
This is an idea you can try. Simple flow onto the circle this time, and sharper flow playing the slider
01:30:668 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Not a good movement imo. There is little to no flow here. The other patterns you used (in this same melody) were a lot better because they promoted angle shifts, but here it's just uh xP... switched it up
01:35:927 (1,2) - The flow here felt kinda odd. I think the direction you point slider 2 throws the flow off. You could try replicating the slider of 01:35:496 (1) - and do something like this: It'll continue the counterclockwise movement here rather than interrupting it with that sharp rightward movement you currently have. changed, also changed the direction of the following pattern to suit
~

01:47:910 - Not going to map this? ;c or 01:49:289 - ? no cause it doesn't follow the rhythm i'm following throughout the whole segment even though they are delicious drum hits
01:51:875 (3) - Doublet rhythm here. yes however there is a distinct drum hit on each note, i know i just said i've been following the synth the entire section but swapping to the stream here for the drums as they come in gives a nice sense of finality to the map + expresses the end of the song well
Rhythm after the kiai is a bit odd, but manageable, just some parts that felt like they ended up ignoring strong beats. Given how dense this map is, you can always map those beats out in an unemphasized manner and dictate what later you want the player to follow based on your spacing and rhythm choices. imo the rhythm choices in the section after the kiai are consistent and okay, but if you have any specific suggestions regarding this please let me know in the rest of your mod so i can think about it and apply/reply to them

The kiai is actually quite manageable. There are some places I think are hard to read, but I think anyone who can actually play this diff should have no trouble reading it at least after a 2nd run.

[]

I'll just go through top diff for now and test the waters. Take your time in replying, no rush~ thanks so much, incredibly helpful mod

i made a few minor changes to flow to make everything just a little smoother

hell ya round 1 done bring on monstrata mod part 2 (hopefully)

Phoxys

5 posts

Joined August 2014

Phoxys 2017-04-09T07:22:55+00:00

This is by far my favorite mapset in osu, insanely fun

Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-04-11T05:06:48+00:00

Descaii wrote:
This is by far my favorite mapset in osu, insanely fun

thank you so much! glad you enjoy it

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2017-04-15T11:15:50+00:00

Kaifin wrote:
Monstrata wrote:
unhinged

00:04:117 (1,2,3) - The spacing here seems really unnecessary to me. Actually, even using a circle on the blue tick felt unnecessary let alone a 1/4 jump here. Can I hear your reasoning for such a drastic movement? Because 00:04:203 - has very little support if any at all... Listen to it at like 50% playback, nothing lands on that note. The same can be said for 00:04:892 (4,5) - . I think the overmap just feels really blatant, and you use really difficult 1/4 movement here too, which makes it stand out even further. the first important distinction to make in my opinion is looking at these 1/4 patterns in the context of the map that they in: these are not hard patterns in the context of the rest of my map, these are the easiest 1/4 patterns in the entire map and dumbing down the difficulty in a section of medium intensity of the song would make the map itself inconsistent conceptually. second, the actual reasoning behind the notes and the "ghost note" on the blue tick that is being debated to exist even, the synth wavers on the 00:04:203 note, notice that 00:04:117 - and 00:04:289 - are the same tone, but 00:04:203 - is a completely different one, hence the existance of this note. as for why it's so emphasized + spaced, the first reason for that is the previous point about the entire MAP being difficult and this being a medium intensity point in the song, and the actual motion itself is meant to emphasize this waver in the synth that i mentioned previously, hopefully this was indepth enough to explain, this applies to all other instances of this note in this section: now with ALL OF THAT being said, i nerfed it a bit so that the higher emphasis patterns would have more emphasis LOL
The pattern is nerfed. That's fine, but the ghost note is not. Maybe there is actually a 1/4. It's clearly extremely hard to hear if we're discussing the synth or hi-hat wavering. The entire map is already well overspaced. You don't need to include unnecessary 1/4's like this, and space them like so, especially when there is so little music support for them. You can argue that there "is" something there, but it's an entirely different argument to say you need to map the 1/4 to something clickable, and another entirely different argument to say you need to use such a pattern to do so.

00:05:151 (1,2,3,4) - This is a doublet rhythm. Since the diff is trying to be technical, you could emphasize the blue tick on 00:05:237 - instead.
Rhythm like this instead
i could do this, but there is a very clear note on every tick of this stream, and the small spacing into 00:05:496 (1) - shape and velocity is meant to emphasize the huge POW in the song that comes there, as the drum ticks at 00:05:151 (1,2,3,4) - that i'm mapping to have that muted, underwater sound to them that makes this pattern feel so satisfying to play, using the doublet rhythm won't provide the same tactile feeling/satisfaction + wont represent the sound i'm following here which i believe has the most emphasis in the music Fair enough.

just taking a small space in the middle of your mod to say that i completely reworked the rhythms you mentioned as overmapped in the first segment of the map. the first rhythms i am 100% sure exist as there is literally a different synth note on them, but i agree that they shouldn't be as emphasized as they are so i have nerfed all of them, and instead slowly built up their spacing so that it hopefully works a bit better for you: the second ones after asking some opinions and listening closer myself i agree that it does not exist, and just extended every slider and switched some patterns around Mentioned earlier.

00:14:806 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - The sliders are good. Your decision to switch to circles is really odd though. Especially considering how you mapped 00:18:599 (1,2) - afterward. It's an unnecessary shift in rhythm that creates an inconsistency. there is a very very clear difference between the two sounds, with an audible drum/bass (not sure which cause i suk at music terms) click on each of these clickable notes, where as i chose to use sliders for the other due to the lack of that fill being there, and the difference in the synth rhythm It's not "very very clear" honestly... It's not even audible for me, I'm checking on both channels and slowing down to 25%. In any case. Your sliders are clearly following the synth no? Switching to the stream clearly demonstrates you aren't following the synth anymore. That's the issue here. The change is jarring because you decide to follow something else right at the end of the pattern.

00:25:151 (1,2,3,1,2) - The SV changes here don't seem necessary at all... rather, they make it seem like different rhythms are being used doe to their noticeably different lengths. ehhhhhhhhh it still has been very clear to every testplayer which sliders are 1/4 and which are 1/2, it is consistent and while i can understand the concern, this is perfectly readable for the player: as for why i did it, i wanted the player to have more movement on the longer sound of 00:25:237 (2), where as the 00:25:496 (1,2) - notes here sound a lot shorter, thus the lower sv which gives the rhythm a denser feel in this section But these SV's really set up 00:27:910 (1,2) - for failure imo. I mean, I guess people who can actually play this map probably won't have much trouble reading this? But you still have to draw a line. Just because people can play it, doesn't mean it's good. Pro players are supposed to be able to play extremely difficult and otherwise awkward patterns. That's what makes them pro. You can see this disassociation with mapping quality and player skill too.

00:29:289 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - The double rhythm is really hard to read here. honestly, none of the rhythm layers here uses exclusively doubles. For example, there's a note on 00:29:720 - which separates it from the doublet you use on 00:29:289 (1,2) - .Additinally, following that double rhythm, it should actually be like 00:29:979 - circle here. and circle here instead. i really really really need to disagree with you here, listening to the lower synth that i begin following at 00:27:910 - in this doubles segment, you'll find that it follows all but 1 note of the doubles here (00:29:892 - a note which you could argue is implied and simply covered by the clutter of other sounds in this segment), this doubles rhythm exists in basically all of my difficulties of this map and i believe it is the clearest, most intuitive way to map this segment of the song. in terms of pure readability, it always had read fine to playtesters and i find myself that this is fine to read due to how the spacing first decreases with 00:29:289 (1,2,1,2) - before the use of spaced doubles, by the time the spaced doubles come the rhythm is very clear. i tried to use the rhythm that you provided but it just feels overmapped to me listening to the song, while it's technically supported i really dont think it represents the song as well as the current doubles rhythm does
This rhythm would work better.

First of all, if you are "following the lower synth" at 00:27:910 (1,2,3) - , then you have the wrong rhythm. It's far to simplified. In any case,
you give me a lot of reasons, but you're avoiding the topic of the double's correlation with the song's rhythm and instruments, which is the crux of the issue. Why should I click on 00:29:806 (1,2) - but not 00:29:979 - ? And why shouldn't I click on say 00:29:979 - which contains the lower synth, and leads into 00:30:324 (1) - ?. Using this same interpretation in your other diffs was one of your arguments, but that doesn't validate the rhythm, it just means your rhythm choice is consistent across your diffs (but that could be consistently incorrect). You could argue that the rhythm can be readable. But that also doesn't address how your rhythm choice corresponds with the music here.

00:32:737 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - If anything, don't the 1/4's fade out with the linear stream? shouldn't spacing get smaller if anything not bigger? i am trying to keep consistency with 00:27:220 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - which is increasing in spacing due to the sounds in that segment, i understand the sounds are different here but i think that this the sound isnt really a drastic change and the spacing stays quite low, i think the current stream shape here is acceptable given the music

Honestly, the other stream you referenced also doesn't make a lot of sense. In the other stream, there's an extra note on 00:27:737 (3) - .
Which I guess you interpretted to mean the stream is more intense. This feels more like just an extra note that can be emphasized through hitsounding.
But since this is more subjective, I'll let it pass. The initial stream I mentioned though, doesn't contain this, and shouldn't be mapped consistently if the sounds aren't consistent to begin with. You yourself said the sounds are different, just not drastic. That should be enough reason to at least reconsider trying to map two patterns consistently when you acknowledge that they are different .

00:34:979 (1,1) - Yea, these aren't really supported at all, mapping those 1/4 jumps just feel really overmapped. there are drum hits on these notes like very very very very loud and clear drum hits, not even like the other ones in the intro where it ended up being slightly questionable and i changed it, these DEFINITELY exist and are supported in the music. now, obviously the two blue tick notes you've highlighted shouldnt have any spacing emphasis on them, which i absolutely agree with! thats why it is patterned in a way that puts all the emphasis on 00:35:065 (2,2) - literally all the emphasis in this segment is on these two notes. you could argue the movement between these two notes 00:34:806 (1,1) - is too far but i'd say it is both warranted and necessary given the intensity of the sounds in the segment. to be double sure, i asked multiple people and these sounds 110% exist with drum beats Okay, I can hear them now.

00:38:427 (1,2,1,2) - Really odd that you don't map the white tick considering you could actually map something 1/4 jumpy onto it for emphasis lol. that would feel incredibly overmapped and out of place because the whole of this kiai segment is following the rhythm that culminates in this doubles rhythm, the doubles rhythm which is foreshadowed at 00:34:979 - i will note just for reference
Yea, I suppose my complaint is more that your "double" rhythm is just not the right rhythm choice then. Mapping the white tick is clearly not overmapped, it's the strongest and most audible beat in the sequence. It's only overmapped in the sense that it doesn't follow your doublet rhythm scheme.

00:52:737 (1) - Ca't believe im saying this, but this slider is really undermapped for the density of the rhythms you've been mapping to so far. yes it is, it's supposed to be a hard break in the song's density to provide a small break/buildup which starts here for the new section,
also to follow the massive "flowbreak" in the song itself with this loud jarring sound out of nowhere
Why do you need to include this break/small buildup etc...? You're creating a really big shift in rhythm to suit either a "build up" effect,
that cannot be achieved by a single object alone anyways, or some "flowbreak" to the song, which I really don't understand. Can you at least elaborate on what you mean by a "flowbreak" in the song itself? The jarring sound, I can understand. Having to give up all other rhythms here to emphasize it? That I can't understand so much. It seems like a poor mapping choice to me.

00:57:737 (1,2) - Can you space the two sliders out more? I think its really easy to misread this as 1/4 streams due to how you've utilized 1/4's so far. sure spaced em, spaced them in all of their instances except the back and forth ones at 01:05:151 (1,2) - because they are already quite spaced Good.

01:15:496 (1,2) - You could make these denser too, considering the 1/4's you've been using so far. The shift to such simple sliders is a bit odd. hmmmmm maybe it feels a little odd but i really think these space-y sounds need the long holds, i think having these very simple patterns right before the buildup is also good, this is ok as is imo but i could always change it to circles, i think that the holds just add a better feel
Okay. I can accept this. Build up effect is a reasonable explanation, and stuff like 01:16:875 (1,2,3) - help with the effect.

01:18:772 (1,2,1) - If you had put 01:19:030 (1) - on the white tick and mapped that jump, i would have been perfectly fine with it. Actually I would have said it fit amazingly well here. let me think about that one as you mod the other diffs, i think the current rhythm is exactly what i'm looking for though following the vocal, it feels kind of meme and too sudden for the player to make sure a jump even with that sound on the white tick, thats not in the forefront of the player's mind when they're playing this rhythm imo. if you think i need to space this more to make it easier to read lemme know but i think rn it is good placement + structure + fine to read so i dont wanna move it
Honestly really surprised you decided to completely ignore the sound on 01:18:944 - despite its uniqueness. You mention mapping a lot of other unique sounds in your reply, "spacey" sounds like 01:15:496 (1,2) - 00:52:737 (1) - Jarring sound, etc... It's an okay placement and structure, but one that doesn't seem to follow the song as well as it could.

01:25:582 (2,3) - At least ctrl+g? The flowbreak onto 2 isn't really warranted at all, and I think people are going to play that 1/4 square with at least a bit of rotating movement instead of just aiming at the center. 01:29:634 (1,2,3) - Is much better. on the contrary, in my opinion it is way way way more comfortable and satisfying to play with this being a flowbreak from 1-2, the sudden snap is very crisp and satisfying with the sound and since this entire segment has the same circular directional motion its a very satisfying payoff to the "buildup" of the flow of the entire segment. 1/4 jump patterns work when they are incredibly sharply angled and clear, and i think that making this circular flow as well would lose emphasis from the pattern, and also make it harder to hit for the player
Sharp angle is fine.

01:29:979 (1,1,2,1,2) - This movement is considerably harder than 01:27:220 (1,1,2,1,2) - , With 01:27:220 (1,1,2,1,2) - I can land this mouse-only even lol, because while there is a jump onto the circle, the movement from circle > slider is very smooth. With 01:29:979 (1,1,2,1,2) - though, you are forced to break flow playing the slider ontop of snapping to it. used your suggestion in a tweaked way to fit my structure
Good

This is an idea you can try. Simple flow onto the circle this time, and sharper flow playing the slider
01:30:668 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Not a good movement imo. There is little to no flow here. The other patterns you used (in this same melody) were a lot better because they promoted angle shifts, but here it's just uh xP... switched it up
Change looks good.

01:47:910 - Not going to map this? ;c or 01:49:289 - ? no cause it doesn't follow the rhythm i'm following throughout the whole segment even though they are delicious drum hits
01:51:875 (3) - Doublet rhythm here. yes however there is a distinct drum hit on each note, i know i just said i've been following the synth the entire section but swapping to the stream here for the drums as they come in gives a nice sense of finality to the map + expresses the end of the song well
Rhythm after the kiai is a bit odd, but manageable, just some parts that felt like they ended up ignoring strong beats. Given how dense this map is, you can always map those beats out in an unemphasized manner and dictate what later you want the player to follow based on your spacing and rhythm choices. imo the rhythm choices in the section after the kiai are consistent and okay, but if you have any specific suggestions regarding this please let me know in the rest of your mod so i can think about it and apply/reply to them

I guess the rhythm you picked after the kiai is alright. Still a bit wonky some places, but your reasoning is fine here.

The kiai is actually quite manageable. There are some places I think are hard to read, but I think anyone who can actually play this diff should have no trouble reading it at least after a 2nd run.

[]

I'll just go through top diff for now and test the waters. Take your time in replying, no rush~ thanks so much, incredibly helpful mod
i made a few minor changes to flow to make everything just a little smoother

hell ya round 1 done bring on monstrata mod part 2 (hopefully)

[]

Well, this took a while. I'm still not convinced about the map. Let's take a step back and realize that this is a 174 bpm map that's basically being mapped double bpm style, but not the alternator type, but the full screenjump/streamjump style. You're fighting a 89 degree uphill battle trying to rank this, honestly, because under many people's definitions, this is overspaced, over emphasized, and the subjective "overmapped". If you believe the song requires such a difficult interpretation, well, you do you. Stuff like this has been ranked before, like Axion etc... but be aware you are very very likely going to need a lot more support to get this off the ground. Getting me on board will not bring you any closer to ranked because there's still the chance of a bubble pop for whatever reason. I suppose we can see how this goes after looking through my points again. However, I'd also try and poke Garden or Chaoslitz or some of the other top 1k BN's / modders around there for opinions and support.

Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-04-15T20:20:52+00:00

i feel as if i have the support of the community as stupid and meaningless as that sounds in the context of a conversation about mapping quality

People love the map and that makes me not want to give up on it, but honestly i have to agree with you that without a shitton more BN support which i just don't have like other mappers do since i don't really have a lot of BNs I'm friends with OR respect/any sort of real notoriety in the mapping community besides ranking a generic wub map

I understand your point of view and replies to my reply and i appreciate you taking the time to recheck, but my map would become worse if i applied changes like making the notes that are pretty clearly there (which seems to be clear to everyone since you are the only person who has complained about these, not that I'm saying your perspective is wrong i just disagree heavily)

It sucks a lot to keep hearing the same shitty excuse from everyone. All I've ever heard from the beginning of trying to find BNs was going from mappers saying "omg ur map is sick!!!11!1!" to "sorry cant help with this its overmapped or overdone or etc"

This is just wrong lol its not overdone because its MY perspective on the song, it's not objectively overdone like an 8 star raikozen shitmap, this is different from anything else that's going for rank, with some very distant cousins in axion and exit this earth's atomosphere, but the map is so different that i think its a mistake to even compare these 2

On the surface to a modder or a random mapper or someone who cant play the map i can understand the complaints, but they cant feel how they affect the map and its feeling, or understand what the player is thinking or experiencing beyond circular flow and basic theoretic concepts that really don't mean much in comparison to actually being able to play the map

I just wanted to address the double standard of BNs who i ask to check my map and assume its bad because they cant understand it or think it's "overdone" when they literally ranked a 7 star map the day before that is just tv size cross screen jumps

im not too sure what direction to take from here but i agree that without a namechange to rrtyui, i wont be able to rank this map

maybe it's time for loved, which just feels like giving up to be honest with the other maps in that category

I appreciate all your work, and the work of everyone who modded/made diff for the mapset, ill keep trying and see if there's anything i can do

thank you for giving my map a fair chance and for your time, i think it's time to start a new project until i can get 100 stars from modding

EDIT: also this map is NOT mapped as "double bpm style" or "174 BPM mapped as 300 bpm!!!!11!" players don't think like that, players see notes and patterns and click them: there was nothing i was going for and this map certainly does not play like its 300 bpm

also there aren't any cross screen 1/4 jumps, the biggest one is maybe half the screen maximum

xLolicore-

636 posts

Joined June 2014

xLolicore- 2017-04-16T07:30:14+00:00

noooo the kaifin ik doesn't give up

(((

Yoshimaro

539 posts

Joined January 2014

Yoshimaro 2017-04-17T01:18:29+00:00

mega rip

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2017-04-17T11:04:26+00:00

The "double bpm style" remark was mainly due to the fact that players aren't really expecting to play the 1/2's and 1/4's on this map like they would normally on maps of this BPM.

Anyways. Where you can go from here is seeing if other BN's can just check your highest diff and give their opinions. Is it good? Are the "overmaps" or doublet rhythms an issue? Or are they just an artefact of the map and a different and acceptable interpretation?

I'll just mention: 00:04:117 (1,2,3) - 00:29:289 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - 00:38:427 (1,2,1,2) || Are the 3 general points I disagree on, the rest, I can chalk it up to different interpretations. Just these 3, I think either further opinions / discussion would help clarify our positions. I don't want to make an impasse off something relatively minor, but I just can't in good will forego those points without at least discussing them further.

I'm not one of those BN's who needs to win every argument etc... I 'm fine if this discussion concluded with nothing fixed. But realize that if I do end up bubbling this map in the future, I also need to be able to support your reasoning, and right now I don't have enough of a case for it.

[]

This is a big project, and honestly, I think BN/Sotarks circlejerks has kind of given a lot of mappers the illusion that ranking big sets is easy. It is not, so please take your time. You can always consult other BN's too, after all you need two anyways. Anyways, let me know how this goes.

Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-04-17T20:15:03+00:00

I think that looking at the stats going into a map really isn't an apparent flaw of the map or anything it's just non standard lol

if you see a map that's 174 bpm as a player, and then see its 7 stars, the first thing that comes to mind is "HOW" so i think expecting something nonstandard is kind of a given

I'll get opinions on those 3 points from other people if I can

As for me thinking this is easy, I obviously do not think ranking this set is easy, I think it's literally impossible LOL I can barely get BN to look at my map past saying they can't interpret it or just passing it off as bad because it's difficult, hence why I basically have written off ranking it at this point and have just conceded to modding my way to 100 SP

however i'll try my best and see if I can get other opinions on my map: i appreciate the black and white nature of your reply and hopefully we can work it out after getting some more discussion on those points

Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-04-18T04:54:34+00:00

OKAY OPINIONS HAVE BEEN gathered

fiery irc

22:15 Kaifin: HEy wanna help with something quick with polygonal
22:16 fieryrage: No im Mapping `100 Percent chicken theme
22:16 fieryrage: wot is it
22:16 Kaifin: 3 quick points from monstrata mod
22:16 Kaifin: he told me to get more opinions on
22:16 fieryrage: ok
22:16 Kaifin: so i am asking bns and top playerz
22:16 *Kaifin is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1182462 Sota Fujimori - polygon [unhinged]]
22:16 fieryrage: wait are u srsly already getting abubble
22:16 Kaifin: let me present the points in an unbiased way
22:16 Kaifin: no we havent even touched
22:16 Kaifin: the other diffs yet
22:16 Kaifin: : )
22:16 Kaifin: point one:
22:16 fieryrage: ok thank God
22:17 Kaifin: haha but soon though.
22:17 Kaifin: anyways
22:17 Kaifin: point one:
22:17 Kaifin: 00:04:203 (2) - does this note, and notes like it in the section exist
22:17 Kaifin: and does it make sense to you/follow the song/rhythm to map them as clickable objects
22:17 Kaifin: point two:
22:18 Kaifin: 00:29:289 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - does this rhythm make sense to you in a logical way, following the song, as in do you see the corrolation between the rhythm and the music and feel it represents it well
22:18 Kaifin: point three: 00:38:427 (1,2,1,2) - same as above, do these rhythms and the way they're spaced make sense objectively to you
22:18 Kaifin: those are the 3 points
22:19 Kaifin: i am trying to present them in an unbiased way as not to affect your answer
22:19 fieryrage: point one i dont think can really be argued exists in the music but the way you consistently map most 1/4s helps its existence a lot
22:19 fieryrage: 00:04:979 (4,1) - tho ull prob have to make this fill the gap
22:19 fieryrage: like have a 1/4 slider on 4 or whatever
22:19 fieryrage: so its consistent
22:20 Kaifin: 00:04:979 - this sound is too final to have it be a 1/4 slider
22:20 fieryrage: yea true
22:20 Kaifin: before, 00:04:892 - was clickable
22:20 Kaifin: but i agreed that note didnt exist so i downgraded it to slider end
22:20 fieryrage: idk i dont see a problem with it cuz it doesnt really affect flow that much regardless and its tasteful overmapping imo
22:21 Kaifin: okay
22:21 fieryrage: but if he and others insist
22:21 fieryrage: maybe just make 00:04:117 (1) - 1/4 kickslider
22:22 fieryrage: point two ya this was one of the things i had a lot of trouble reading on sightread lol
22:22 fieryrage: even just adding like 1 slider here would help a lot
22:22 fieryrage: 00:29:289 (1,2) - like here instead of a stacked double
22:22 fieryrage: and 00:29:548 (1,2) - here as well
22:22 fieryrage: otherwise everything else is fine
22:22 fieryrage: 00:29:979 - not rly a huge fan of skipping this big sick bass tho
22:23 Kaifin: but no one else has complained about the rhythm of 00:04:117 -
22:23 Kaifin: and making it a kick slider will make the map worse
22:23 Kaifin: and hmmmmm i think i might change the 2nd point
22:23 Kaifin: does the rhythm make sense?
22:24 Kaifin: i might keep the same rhythm but make it more intuitive
22:24 fieryrage: personally all id do is 00:29:806 (1,2,1,2) - add a note on the white tick and rearrange pattern
22:24 fieryrage: but u do it consistently throughout the song
22:24 fieryrage: so the rhythm here is awkward but fine since its consistent
22:26 fieryrage: 00:55:496 (2,3) - kinda confused why u didnt go for bass here though its a lot more noticeable than the synth
22:26 fieryrage: 01:15:151 (1) - also nice nc lo
22:26 Kaifin: no i hear the ch ch ch ch sound
22:26 Kaifin: 00:55:496 (1,2,1,2) -
22:26 Kaifin: these four notes go
22:26 Kaifin: ch ch ch ch
22:26 Kaifin: i value that more than boring bass notes
22:27 fieryrage: ye ok fair enough
22:28 fieryrage: also 01:19:634 - why skip this note if ur following vocals
22:29 fieryrage: 01:52:910 (2,3,4) - and this is 1/8 u fuk god Dammit
22:29 Kaifin: thats not a vocal not
22:29 Kaifin: e
22:29 Kaifin: listen on 50
22:29 Kaifin: 01:19:548 (1) -
22:29 Kaifin: vocal note
22:30 Kaifin: 01:19:548 (1) -
22:30 Kaifin: space
22:30 Kaifin: big BOOM sound but lik fuck that its not what im following and mapping that would feel lik shit for the player
22:30 Kaifin: 01:19:720 (1,2,3,1) -
22:30 Kaifin: vocal notes
22:30 fieryrage: idk i hear the start of the "loo" that continues to 01:19:720 (1) - this note
22:30 fieryrage: maybe im retarded
22:30 fieryrage: even on 50%
22:31 Kaifin: -_
22:31 Kaifin: Incorrect
22:32 Kaifin: remove the hitsound for it to be even clearer to u
22:32 fieryrage: ok im still hearing it i think imn austiic
22:32 fieryrage: autistic
22:32 fieryrage: dam ndaniel
22:33 Kaifin: dam daniel
22:33 Kaifin: i appreciate ur feedback
22:33 Kaifin: can i use ur log
22:34 fieryrage: yea
22:34 fieryrage: tell monstrata 2 buble guilty lol1!
22:34 Kaifin: LO
22:34 fieryrage: Lol1!
22:34 fieryrage: im seriousn btw please help
22:34 fieryrage: im dying inside

DDD
22:38 Kaifin: oh btw
22:38 Kaifin: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7857116
22:38 Kaifin: heres the solution
22:38 Kaifin: for point 2
22:38 fieryrage: ye
22:38 fieryrage: that wot i sugest
22:38 fieryrage: God Job Kaifn
22:38 Kaifin: nice

xilver irc

22:05 Kaifin: hey xilver
22:05 Kaifin: can i grab your quick opinion on 3 things
22:05 Kaifin: for polygonal
22:05 Kaifin: ranking process is hell
22:06 Xilver: uh, sure i don't mind

just one thing. is this going to be publicly posted?
22:07 Kaifin: yes! well maybe not the log specifically but like
22:07 Kaifin: ideally you would post a reply with your opinion to the thread
22:07 Kaifin: since you are top player and also mapper it is ideal to grab your opinions on these points
22:07 Xilver: hmm. i don't like my opinions being used as a type of medium like that :c
22:07 Kaifin: hmmmmm well
22:07 Kaifin: it's less about like subjective opinion and more
22:07 Kaifin: "are these notes here"
22:08 Kaifin: and "does this rhythm make sense to you"
22:08 Kaifin: its okay if you dont wanna though
22:08 Kaifin: just asking around cause i basically need either BN or top player or both and i cant get either :gun:
22:10 Xilver: yeah...i'd love to help you if you need opinions from me for yourself, but i'm assuming you need it to convince people, right?
22:10 Kaifin: yeah
22:10 Kaifin: specifically monstrata
22:10 Kaifin: p/5955326
22:10 Kaifin: here is the post if you want to read it
22:11 Kaifin: the points are:
22:12 Kaifin: 00:04:203 - does this note and the other ones like in this section exist
22:12 Kaifin: and if so is mapping them as a clickable object justified
22:12 Kaifin: 00:29:289 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - does this rhythm make concise sense in how it follows the music
22:13 Kaifin: and 00:38:427 (1,2,1,2) - does these notes/their spacing make sense with the sounds
22:13 Kaifin: now to me all of these are so ??????????? complaints that it doesn't even make sense to me
22:13 Kaifin: i can hear clear rhythms in all 3 places and i feel as if i am just mapping to the music
22:13 Kaifin: monstrata's explanation is in the thread, and i am trying not to present the points in a biased way
22:15 Kaifin: also dont worry you're not the only person im asking i'm going to get quite a few opinions on this so that i can make absolute sure that i'm not wrong
22:15 Xilver: oh my. monstrata wrote an essay and a half
22:15 Kaifin: yes
22:18 Xilver: asdf
22:18 Xilver: so hard to read all of this

22:18 Kaifin: sorry D:
22:18 Kaifin: the important parts are
22:18 Kaifin: only those 3 points
22:19 Xilver: but if it's only the 3 points you mentioned, they're all okay.
22:19 Xilver: the 2nd point is a bit iffy though in my eyes
22:20 Xilver: specifically, i don't like how different spacings are represented in the same rhythm 00:29:548 (1,2,1,2) -
22:21 Kaifin: the idea was because the same sound is repeated over and over again
22:21 Kaifin: and it becomes more emphasized on the 3rd and 4th time because it is repeatedly emphasized
22:22 Kaifin: so i expanded the spacing
22:22 Kaifin: i could consider making them all the same spacing, but i wanted it to also be a clean transition to the new rhythm by making 00:29:289 (1,2) - small
22:22 Xilver: repeatedly emphasized? what does that mean?
22:22 Kaifin: i could make 00:29:548 (1,2,1,2) - small but i think it would make the patterning worse
22:22 Kaifin: as in
22:22 Kaifin: the sound repeats itself to the point where it is emphasized
22:22 Kaifin: it is getting more and more exasperated of a sound as it is played over and over
22:23 Kaifin: removing hitsounds/the notes help hear this better
22:23 Xilver: eh...i guess. fair enough
22:24 Xilver: you should change 00:34:806 (1) - into a low spacing double, though. that way you can at least retain consistency and further imply the "repeating" emphasis thing
22:25 Kaifin: fiery also said the second pattern was something he had trouble with on sightread so i might change the first of the doubles
22:25 Kaifin: into a slider?
22:25 Kaifin: 00:34:806 (1) - this could be a good idea but i have NO clue how i would fix the flow
22:25 Kaifin: from that
22:25 Kaifin: i guess i could move 00:34:979 (1,2,1,2) - down to work with that but
22:25 Kaifin: i like the emphasis from 00:34:806 (1,1) -
22:25 Kaifin: so maybe i think the best option is to make the first one consistent with this one
22:26 Xilver: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7857116 i guess something like this?
22:27 Kaifin: yes, i think i will do that
22:27 Kaifin: thank you
22:28 Xilver: sure thing o7 please try to gather more opinions, though.
22:28 Kaifin: yes i will
22:29 Kaifin: can i post our log with the other logs
22:31 Xilver: go ahead. i'd hate to slow you down trying to rank your map C:
22:31 Kaifin: <3

VINXIS irc

22:21 VINXIS: abc
22:21 Kaifin: z
22:25 VINXIS: OK
22:25 VINXIS: NOW IM back
22:26 Kaifin: ok
22:27 Kaifin: do u want me to hit u with the
22:27 Kaifin: 3 point explanation again
22:27 Kaifin: From the Top
22:27 Kaifin: cause ive done it twice now
22:27 VINXIS: no jus tell me the
22:27 Kaifin: O
22:27 Kaifin: K sec
22:27 VINXIS: y u mapped 00:06:875 (1,2) - sounds when ther less audible than the 3 00:06:617 (2) - sounds here
22:27 VINXIS: reason
22:27 Kaifin: i did explain it
22:28 VINXIS: yea
22:28 VINXIS: but
22:28 VINXIS: i
22:28 VINXIS: forgot
22:28 VINXIS: : d
22:28 VINXIS: cuz im eating spicy chiken and went outside
22:28 Kaifin: cause the first audible sound of that synth is
22:28 Kaifin: 00:06:789 -
22:28 Kaifin: and it IS mapped
22:28 Kaifin: its a slider end
22:28 VINXIS: spicy fish**8
22:28 Kaifin: spicy fish
22:28 Kaifin: and then 00:06:875 -
22:28 Kaifin: this is mapped as circlez
22:28 VINXIS: im talking about
22:28 VINXIS: 00:06:703 -
22:28 Kaifin: it is mapped
22:28 Kaifin: lol
22:28 Kaifin: thats not a note
22:28 Kaifin: thats barely a note
22:28 Kaifin: thats like a squeak
22:28 Kaifin: thats not even audibl to me
22:28 Kaifin: compared to the other one
22:29 VINXIS: RLY its more audible to me than 00:06:961 -
22:29 Kaifin: i dont agree at all
22:29 VINXIS: yea well ura NERD X D
22:29 VINXIS: ok well if u think that then its fine i guess
22:30 Kaifin: SHI
22:30 Kaifin: k point 2 is
22:30 Kaifin: going 2 be fixed
22:30 VINXIS: Rly
22:30 Kaifin: and point 3 is
22:30 VINXIS: i thot tht was the most obv
22:30 Kaifin: ya well
22:30 Kaifin: i'm just going 2 compromise
22:31 Kaifin: same rhythm
22:31 Kaifin: different objects
22:31 Kaifin: making the first 2 doublz into sliders
22:31 Kaifin: for better Playability
22:31 Kaifin: and more _consistency_
22:31 Kaifin: 00:38:427 (1,2) -
22:31 Kaifin: point 3
22:31 Kaifin: 00:38:427 (1,2) -
22:31 Kaifin: doez the way these follow the music in both their patterning + rhythm make sense
22:32 VINXIS: yea
22:32 VINXIS: tho its kinda weird cuz00:38:427 (1,2) - is the same pitch but 00:38:686 (1,2) - rnt but ther basicaly the same
22:32 VINXIS: mapped teh same*
22:33 Kaifin: ??
22:33 Kaifin: but one is big and one is small
22:33 Kaifin: i think the drums are louder here too that is why i increase spacing like this
22:33 VINXIS: yea but the angles make it seem lik they have the same pitch meme Lol
22:33 VINXIS: g
22:34 VINXIS: then wot about the pitch
22:34 VINXIS: i thot tht was th emost different between the 2
22:34 Kaifin: same anglez but like
22:34 Kaifin: flipped
22:34 Kaifin: the emphasis is different for player
22:34 Kaifin: it just lookz nicer
22:34 VINXIS: dab
22:35 Kaifin: dav
22:35 Kaifin: dab
22:35 Kaifin: do u understand what i mean
22:35 Kaifin: like more what he's saying is
22:35 VINXIS: owel i guess the spacign difference is proly gud enuf
22:35 Kaifin: why isnt 00:38:599 - a circle
22:35 Kaifin: its not like a "is this pattern bad" and more of a
22:35 Kaifin: 00:38:599 -
22:35 Kaifin: y didnt u map this
22:35 Kaifin: and tahts like a??????????????????????????? one for me
22:35 VINXIS: did u point out 00:37:220 -
22:36 VINXIS: did u tell him ur mapping to the suynth and not the drums
22:36 Kaifin: ya i did
22:36 Kaifin: it Didnt Help
22:36 VINXIS: not ht ekick/snare*
22:36 VINXIS: then wot
22:36 Kaifin: yea ik
22:36 Kaifin: ok but what would your suggestion be
22:36 Kaifin: to improve the pattern
22:36 Kaifin: lik how would i change it to improv it
22:36 VINXIS: nothing
22:36 Kaifin: O
22:36 VINXIS: int erms of
22:36 VINXIS: rhythm
22:36 VINXIS: Lol
22:36 Kaifin: but i mean wtf wer u talking about
22:36 Kaifin: with the patterning
22:36 VINXIS: o lol
22:36 Kaifin: like show me a screenshot
22:37 VINXIS: emphasis between distinguishing the 2
22:37 Kaifin: of wat you mean so i can understand
22:37 VINXIS: wot wud i screenshot Lopl
22:37 Kaifin: IDK CAUS
22:37 Kaifin: i dont know waht you're saying LOL
22:37 Kaifin: they are different pitch so i spaced them different
22:37 Kaifin: idk wat more you want me to do with the pattern
22:38 VINXIS: yea thts y i was lik owel
22:38 VINXIS: the spacingi difference is proyl gud enuf
22:38 Kaifin: O
22:38 Kaifin: LOL
22:38 Kaifin: OK
22:38 VINXIS: after
22:38 Kaifin: good 2 clarifyu
22:38 VINXIS: Lo l
22:38 Kaifin: ok makez sense
22:38 Kaifin: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7857116
22:38 Kaifin: heres what im doing for point 2
22:38 Kaifin: how do u feel about that
22:39 VINXIS: seemsgood
22:39 Kaifin: nice
22:39 VINXIS: i have high standards !!!!!!!
22:39 VINXIS: X DDDD

TL;DR from these 3 IRC logs:

point 1 (00:04:117 (1,2,3) -) was agreed as the note mostly existing, but even if you don't think the note exists the way the song and rhythms are mapped throughout the section make it feel tasteful to the player and not like ridiculously difficultly overmapped or anything like that: without this note being here, the map feels a lot worse off

point 2 (00:29:289 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -) was compromised: the rhythm is the same because the rhythm itself makes sense, but the way it was represented was changing (using two sliders for the first two doubles instead of circles). this created rhythm consistency here 00:34:806 (1) - and improved the section a lot, i am glad this solution was found and hope it is satisfactory to you as well

point 3 (00:38:427 (1,2,1,2)) was pretty much agreed to be fine, the rhythm is following the synth the entire section, which is exemplified by 00:36:875 (1,2,1,2) - rhythms like this in the segment which i think are the clearest way of showing what the map is following the whole section. There was some discussion with VINXIS about the pattern itself as well and how it emphasizes the music but we agreed that it was fine as is in the end. Mapping the white tick here would both break my rhythm consistency by following something other than the synth in this segment, AND feel/flow bad to the player, presenting them with a rhythm that is not only wrong but unfair for them to play

i can get more opinions if you want from top players + BNs, i figured asking players who are also mappers would be the best route because they can both play the patterns and also understand the mapping concepts, I have a couple more opinions on board if you need more insight into them these issues as well but i think that everything is pretty much thoroughly addressed

there was also a missing finish, added that and changed the second point and updated!

also, i'm sorry if at any point of this process i've seemed passive aggressive or upset, this set just means a lot to me and it is difficult to see faults in and also defend something in an unbiased way when i care about it a lot, thank you for the help with the map and i hope this is satisfactory so we can maybe look at the other diffs which i hope you find to be MUCH less problematic LOL

bonus:
22:42 VINXIS: if u ever think
22:42 VINXIS: tht ranking polygon
22:42 VINXIS: is a waste of time
22:42 VINXIS: just remember
22:42 VINXIS: that rlc has been writing konosuba fanfiction partly with latex for the past 50 hrs

kbd

53 posts

Joined May 2014

kbd 2017-04-19T21:11:19+00:00

love love love

btw as some noob 5 digit none-mapper, 00:04:117 (1,2,3) ive hit every single time ive played, including sightread. but idk if that even matters; too noob for rest of map

I Must Decrease

908 posts

Joined June 2013

I Must Decrease 2017-04-23T23:42:08+00:00

.

Last edited by I Must Decrease 2017-05-01T06:05:50+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

VINXIS

Featured Artist

3,161 posts

Joined April 2014

VINXIS 2017-04-24T00:01:07+00:00

than q : 3

Irreversible

osu! Alumni

4,315 posts

Joined December 2011

Irreversible 2017-04-29T20:42:00+00:00

Hi!

[Easy]

00:05:496 (4) - To soften up the angle a bit, and make it thus easier to play for a beginner, I'd place it somewhere near 480 172. You'd have to readjust things, but it's worth it.
00:08:255 (4) - Same idea as above.
00:11:358 (1,2) - What do you think about having 2/1 sliders here? Reason would be that the part is about to change, and you could easen up the rhythm a bit, to make 00:12:737 (3) - more special. It would also help calming down the density a bit, since it appears to be slightly high.
00:14:806 (2) - Blanket? Or was it not intended? Would be fine too.
00:19:634 (1,2) - That blanket stuff goes with all of those - fix them up if you think you've missed it out, leave it like this if it's inteded to be slightly off.
00:36:186 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Don't worry - I've just highlighted it up because there seemed to be one flaw within the part: the rhythm density. Please, again refering to above, try to get in at least some more 2/1. It will help easen up the rhythm and be less exhausting for this level. It will also help to get a bit more diversity throughout the parts - I feel like you've mapped everything really similar, which destroys the effect of this song - I think it's pretty diverse, so the map should be diverse too.
01:22:737 (4,1,2) - This stack might be too confusing for this level. I'd remove it, just to be save.
01:27:220 (3) - This, again, for diversity, could be a 2/1 slider. Or somewhere else, I don't mind really - as long as I see improvement in rhythm.

tl:dr - Try improving the rhythm diversity, so you can get something slightly more interesting, and less exhausting. Map itself was designed fine - apart from the 1-2 stacks which seemed too difficult for my taste.

[Normal]

I don't have problems with this difficulty, but similar to the Easy, I feel like the rhythm could be somewhat more diverse. Please look into it again, and try adding some more 2/1 (not too many, since it's a normal - but however, maybe some interesting sliders would still be interesting!) maybe, because due to the stacks etc., this Normal is rather on the challenging side. I feel like there is no real "break" for the player to get some recovery.

[Hard]

00:28:427 (2) - I'd suggest normal spacing, because there's nothing too outstanding on that beat. I'd make it equal between 1 and 2 and 3.
00:29:289 (1,2) - Is that hitsound intentioanl? It sounds off.
00:55:496 (1,2) - I personally feel like it's too early to have a spaced off rhythm like this. If you could work with repeat sliders, this would be great - otherwise I think that the difficulty curve will be slightly bad here, because you've introduced a lot of new things already (1/4 mainly).
01:03:082 (3,4,1) - I am pretty sure that people won't be able to tell the difference between those here. If you could somehow about this, it would be great.
01:25:151 (2,3) - Same, this is not readable for this level.
01:30:668 (2,3) - ^.
01:41:013 (1) - I am not actually sure if this is unrankable - because of the covered repeat. I'm not sure however, if it actually is covered, so you might wanna recheck that.

tl:dr - Map has got some really creative stuff going! But you have to make sure that everything is readable. The increase in difficulty, concerning the 1/4, is pretty high - so you should not overwhelm the players with different kinds of 1/4. I believe that these ones should be reworked, but I'm sure you can find a solution there.

[Insane]

00:13:427 (1,2,3,4) - this sounded really off and felt awkward to play. Please listen to the song again and try to match the placed rhythm more fitting.

Hmm, now comes a part which I'm not too sure about. I'm speaking of 00:26:358 (1,2,3,4) - etc. Playing triplets of four (quadruples?) appears interesting - if it happens once or twice. But considering that it happens multiple times now, followed by a lot of doublets, I think this is a true challenge. Especially parts like these 00:28:944 (5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - appear over the top for now. I would suggest that you try to replace some of those with a 1/4 slider instead - for example all these 00:29:289 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - . It would still give a similar effect, yet is way easier to play - and i think this would be a good idea to balance it out a bit. Could I ask you to consider this properly and try to balance it?

Loving the kiai - but got 2 little adjustments, or 3. Can you imagine having 01:22:220 (3) - those placed in a more intuitive way? Having it placed at a point like 210 16 would make it more easier and more fluent to play. This goes for 01:24:978 (3) - 01:27:048 (5) - 01:38:082 (3) - . I tried figuring why you did it that way, but I couldn't really find a pattern so I assume it's ok to suggest it.

tl:dr - Nerfing the rhythm in this part would already fix the problem. It's ok to have the rhyhtm per se - just the fix would make it more approachable.

[fanzhen's Another]

<3

[Extra]

Ok, I think there won't be any spread-fixing approaches anymore now, haha.

00:13:427 - I think leaving out this beat would increase the tension in a positive way.
00:25:668 (2) - I am aware of the ocnsistency of the placement of this object in general,. but I think that more spacing would make it more intuitive. Give it a try and see how it works - that goes for all parts like this. 00:31:185 (2) -
00:27:220 (1,2) - I just feel like this kind of repeat sliders overwrite the song in not a good way. Don't you think you could come up with something more interesting? 00:32:737 (1,2) - here too. The hitsounding doen't really fit either, does it? The song doesn't go that ham.
01:00:927 (5,1) - Avoid this tiny overlap? Don't know why it's here.

tl:dr - not much to fix tbh

[Lolirii's Collab Expert]

00:20:324 (1,2,1,2,3,1,2,1,2) - I don't quite understand the rhythm, I mean I like 00:20:324 (1,2,1,2) - , but why is 00:21:013 (1,2,1,2) - so fundamentally different?
01:00:237 (4,5) - That stack seems unnecessarily mean.. don't you think you'd want to keep the flow you have so far and somehow get rid off it?
01:01:186 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - omg lol, very creative
01:05:755 (4,5) - Same. I do know why you did it, but I think it's not a very good solution to this. People will probably spam over it and will be left with "why did i 100 or miss here"
01:10:324 (2) - NC
01:19:634 (1,2,1) - While I adored the part before, I think this pattern in general doesn't fit. 01:19:806 (2) - is so different to 01:19:634 (1) - , and thus imo shouldn't be copied. I'm sure you can come up with something more creative, considering what you've pulled off so far.
01:32:048 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - the ds here looks somehow weird.. intentional?

woww i loved it lol, but i don't even know the mappers

[Expert]

00:02:048 (1) - Come ooon you can do better blankets.
00:02:048 (1,1,2,3,4,1) - In my personal opinion you shouldn't spam the rhythm here. There will be enough density later on - I suggest thy oufollow the vocals - mainly 00:02:565 (3,4,1) - . You'd have to redo the hitsounding slightly, to make it fit, but I think it'll be for the better.
00:58:255 (1,2,3,4,1) - That seemed.. somehow really difficult, no? lol I haven't encountered something like this in the map before and it does a ppear a bit spiky. I mean having it in the kiai is ok, since everything is difficult.

[I. HS-EX]

00:02:392 (1,2,1,2,1) - Same as in EX
00:13:427 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Same problem actually. Sometimes I just feel like less is more, do you know where I'm coming from? It would make the map so much more interesting.
00:14:806 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - omg.. this is incredimentally fast.. loljk cool idea with the build up haha
00:32:565 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4) - You should be careful wit hthe hitsounds. Sometimes you place heavy hitsounds for parts which actually deserved less. Having objects here is perfectly fine - I just wouldn't accentuate them like dat.
00:36:186 (1) - let's start the party LOL omg i love fast sliders
01:19:979 (1) - Ok I see what you did there, but I'd suggest a 1/16 slider with maybe 5.0x SV. The effect would be so cooler LOL Maybe not that excessive but you should see where I'm coming frmo.

crazyyy

[Bonzi's Extreme]

00:00:324 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3) - Sorry, but this is heavily overmapped. I don't disagree with certain accentuating objects, but this seems to much considering even further that this is only the intro. I don't hear anything on 00:01:617 (6) - etc.
00:02:392 (1,2,1,2) - Check what I've wrote about that in the other diffs, please.
01:31:358 (1) - Let's talk about these for a second. The first part of the kiai apperaed fine for me, because you are really speeded up, it shouldn't be too much of a hassle to do those streams ( I mean it's really difficult but if you accelereate enough, it should feel fine to play). However, these slow you down completely and the distance between 01:31:617 (4,1) - is insane. I am actually not really supporting those, because I feel like this feels terribly off to play, considering how fluent your map was so far. I suggest that you add a 1/4 slider instead of 01:31:530 (3,4) - , so that the player can go to the next patterns fluently. 01:34:117 (1) - Same in this and somehow 01:36:875 (1) - ,although here you have acceleration again in some part. 01:39:633 (1) - Here its somehow ok again.. I'd consider it for the first two, even tho it breaks the patterns a bit, but for the playabilitys sake I think it's needed.
01:53:168 - Add a circle? It seems not finished without it.

I really like the concept of this map - it shows the variety of this song greatly. Please do me a favor and remap the first part and think about the second part in the insane again tho.

[unhinged]

00:02:392 (1,2,1,2) - Same as always.

I honestly don't have something to say in this map - to me it seems reasonably mapped. I feel like if I mentioned something in the earlier diffs, it applies to this one as well - so please give your best to make the fixes consistent with your map.

As for now, I'm pretty positive towards the set - I'll await the fixes and replies, because most of the things mentioned seemed crucial to me. I think that they won't conflict too much with the maps spirit, so I hope that there won't be too much trouble with understanding my mentioned points. Just call me in PM for questions!

Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-04-29T22:36:03+00:00

Irreversible wrote:
Hi! helo

[Easy]

00:05:496 (4) - To soften up the angle a bit, and make it thus easier to play for a beginner, I'd place it somewhere near 480 172. You'd have to readjust things, but it's worth it.
00:08:255 (4) - Same idea as above. fixed both
00:11:358 (1,2) - What do you think about having 2/1 sliders here? Reason would be that the part is about to change, and you could easen up the rhythm a bit, to make 00:12:737 (3) - more special. It would also help calming down the density a bit, since it appears to be slightly high. made the slider 2/1 and changed the pattern a little bit
00:14:806 (2) - Blanket? Or was it not intended? Would be fine too. fixed
00:19:634 (1,2) - That blanket stuff goes with all of those - fix them up if you think you've missed it out, leave it like this if it's inteded to be slightly off. fixed
00:36:186 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Don't worry - I've just highlighted it up because there seemed to be one flaw within the part: the rhythm density. Please, again refering to above, try to get in at least some more 2/1. It will help easen up the rhythm and be less exhausting for this level. It will also help to get a bit more diversity throughout the parts - I feel like you've mapped everything really similar, which destroys the effect of this song - I think it's pretty diverse, so the map should be diverse too. incorporated 2/1 into the rhythm after the kiai, due to the kiai being more intense i'm keeping the 1/1 there and instead using 2/1 afterwards: a lot of patterns were slightly rearranged to accommodate this
01:22:737 (4,1,2) - This stack might be too confusing for this level. I'd remove it, just to be save. fixed, but i want you to know that it was aboslute hell fixing this
01:27:220 (3) - This, again, for diversity, could be a 2/1 slider. Or somewhere else, I don't mind really - as long as I see improvement in rhythm. i agree that this is good for 2/1 because of the sound, i made this one 2/1 and the other sound thats the same as this one later one 2/1 as well, hopefully that helps with the density/diversity

tl:dr - Try improving the rhythm diversity, so you can get something slightly more interesting, and less exhausting. Map itself was designed fine - apart from the 1-2 stacks which seemed too difficult for my taste. diversified

[Normal]

I don't have problems with this difficulty, but similar to the Easy, I feel like the rhythm could be somewhat more diverse. Please look into it again, and try adding some more 2/1 (not too many, since it's a normal - but however, maybe some interesting sliders would still be interesting!) maybe, because due to the stacks etc., this Normal is rather on the challenging side. I feel like there is no real "break" for the player to get some recovery. added 2/1 to the second after the first kiai where i added it in the Easy: i think this is the most fitting place for 2/1 to be, the other sections seem to have varied enough rhythm with the 1/2 sliders and stacks so hopefully this adds just the right amount of variety to the map

[Hard]

00:28:427 (2) - I'd suggest normal spacing, because there's nothing too outstanding on that beat. I'd make it equal between 1 and 2 and 3. made the distance somewhat even while keeping the structure and the flow i was going for
00:29:289 (1,2) - Is that hitsound intentioanl? It sounds off. fixed, before icon i'll comb through every diff one last time to make sure no hitsounds are out of place
00:55:496 (1,2) - I personally feel like it's too early to have a spaced off rhythm like this. If you could work with repeat sliders, this would be great - otherwise I think that the difficulty curve will be slightly bad here, because you've introduced a lot of new things already (1/4 mainly). changed to a repeat slider and spacing the circle more, hopefully this should be a lot more readable
01:03:082 (3,4,1) - I am pretty sure that people won't be able to tell the difference between those here. If you could somehow about this, it would be great. imo, here the difference in rhythm is pretty clear to the player because 01:03:772 (1,2) - are touching, also it goes from triplet to quad repeat which i think is much less of a readability issue than the rhythms you pointed out later in the map (which im changing). from the fact that these two notes are touching + 00:58:255 (1,2) - the player already played it here so the rhythm should be pretty apparent (its the same thing flipped 180)
01:25:151 (2,3) - Same, this is not readable for this level. agreed, changed all instances of this rhythm
01:30:668 (2,3) - ^. ^
01:41:013 (1) - I am not actually sure if this is unrankable - because of the covered repeat. I'm not sure however, if it actually is covered, so you might wanna recheck that. this isn't covered, the pattern/repeat also isn't confusing because of the structure, but based on purely RC this isn't unrankable iirc unless i'm missing something, i asked around and checked but if worse comes to worse i can change it

tl:dr - Map has got some really creative stuff going! But you have to make sure that everything is readable. The increase in difficulty, concerning the 1/4, is pretty high - so you should not overwhelm the players with different kinds of 1/4. I believe that these ones should be reworked, but I'm sure you can find a solution there. tried to make the 1/4 rhythms more readable and fair to the player: hopefully it is okay! i thought about making an advanced diff for a while but imo this is the closest i can get to fully following the song at it's most basic rhythmic level and an advanced would be kind of the same as Normal

[Insane]

00:13:427 (1,2,3,4) - this sounded really off and felt awkward to play. Please listen to the song again and try to match the placed rhythm more fitting. i don't really understand because the rhythm is the same as it is in all the others diffs: the instrument is 7 1/4 notes, which are supported by the drums at 00:13:772 (2,3,4) - so that is why i made it clickable there in comparison to 00:13:427 (1) - which is more of a building sound: maybe i am misunderstanding what you mean

Hmm, now comes a part which I'm not too sure about. I'm speaking of 00:26:358 (1,2,3,4) - etc. Playing triplets of four (quadruples?) appears interesting - if it happens once or twice. But considering that it happens multiple times now, followed by a lot of doublets, I think this is a true challenge. Especially parts like these 00:28:944 (5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - appear over the top for now. I would suggest that you try to replace some of those with a 1/4 slider instead - for example all these 00:29:289 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - . It would still give a similar effect, yet is way easier to play - and i think this would be a good idea to balance it out a bit. Could I ask you to consider this properly and try to balance it? that makes sense, i changed 2 of them to sliders, to make the rhythm less clickably dense but still fitting, please let me know if this is sufficient, this new pattern seems fair to me for the player

Loving the kiai - but got 2 little adjustments, or 3. Can you imagine having 01:22:220 (3) - those placed in a more intuitive way? Having it placed at a point like 210 16 would make it more easier and more fluent to play. This goes for 01:24:978 (3) - 01:27:048 (5) - 01:38:082 (3) - . I tried figuring why you did it that way, but I couldn't really find a pattern so I assume it's ok to suggest it. sure, i was afraid about placing it here for fear it wouldn't be readable but i can see how it is more intuitive this way, it doesnt really change the flow either so i changed all

tl:dr - Nerfing the rhythm in this part would already fix the problem. It's ok to have the rhyhtm per se - just the fix would make it more approachable. hopefully the changes made were sufficient!

[fanzhen's Another]

<3 agree

[Extra]

Ok, I think there won't be any spread-fixing approaches anymore now, haha. i hope!

00:13:427 - I think leaving out this beat would increase the tension in a positive way. i can see how this would increase the tension, but i think that the current rhythm is a lot better for playability + i think leaving out the beat would really confuse the player as 00:13:599 (2) - is about as prominent as 00:13:427 (1): if i instead started the rhythm on 00:13:513 - it would be awkward to acc + play because it wouldn't be fair for the player to expect for the rhythm to start there based on the sound
00:25:668 (2) - I am aware of the ocnsistency of the placement of this object in general,. but I think that more spacing would make it more intuitive. Give it a try and see how it works - that goes for all parts like this. 00:31:185 (2) - i want there to be next to no aim difficulty in this section due to the rhythm: this kind of spacing is consistent in both the structure and the previous spacing in the section before it 00:14:806: after playing around with different higher spaced patterns i think it is better to keep it like this to keep the expanding spacing for each pattern, but if it's a super big deal i can just space it out a little bit it's not a hard fix
00:27:220 (1,2) - I just feel like this kind of repeat sliders overwrite the song in not a good way. Don't you think you could come up with something more interesting? 00:32:737 (1,2) - here too. The hitsounding doen't really fit either, does it? The song doesn't go that ham. the most prominent sound to me here is the constant high pitched 1/4, that's what the repeat sliders are mapped to: i think that the repeats are fitting for the music and also allow a nice break from the dense rhythms both times they occur
01:00:927 (5,1) - Avoid this tiny overlap? Don't know why it's here. this overlap is here for 2 reasons: the first is to make sure the 1/4 jump spacing is fair because spacing it fully would make it look like 1/2 with how low spacing all the 1/2 has been so far, and second is because 01:00:755 (3,4,5) - is exactly halfway up 00:59:892 (1) - and 01:01:013 (1) - is on the end of 00:59:892 (1) - so it is for structure and consistency, which i think justifies that it looks just a tiny bit silly

tl:dr - not much to fix tbh i hope my explanations were sufficient for this diff: if you think there is anything pressing that absolutely needs changing or that my reasoning isn't strong enough please just let me know and i can reconsider or explain my perspective more

[Expert]

00:02:048 (1) - Come ooon you can do better blankets. U RITE, fixed i hope weird shape D:
00:02:048 (1,1,2,3,4,1) - In my personal opinion you shouldn't spam the rhythm here. There will be enough density later on - I suggest thy oufollow the vocals - mainly 00:02:565 (3,4,1) - . You'd have to redo the hitsounding slightly, to make it fit, but I think it'll be for the better. made the first two a slider to emphasize the last 3 notes more
00:58:255 (1,2,3,4,1) - That seemed.. somehow really difficult, no? lol I haven't encountered something like this in the map before and it does a ppear a bit spiky. I mean having it in the kiai is ok, since everything is difficult. hmmmmmmmm.... i can understand where you're coming from, but i think it's important to have this pattern the way it is in the map: i could make it a normal square but it fits the sound very well + prepares the player for the flow that's coming later in the map, i can understand how it's the first time it happens in the map, but it comes from a completely "cold open" with the hold slider at 00:57:910 (1) - and playtesters didn't seem to struggle with it particularly on sightread: if anything i will just change it to be a normal square but the pattern is super fitting with the sound imo so i am reluctant to change it for now

[I. HS-EX]

00:02:392 (1,2,1,2,1) - Same as in EX imo because of the higher difficulty + the patterning, this is a lot more fitting and the pattern works well with the sound: this is my reasoning for keeping it clickable in the top diff as well, but if necessary i can change it, i just think this emphasis works with the sounds a lot better than it did in Expert
00:13:427 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Same problem actually. Sometimes I just feel like less is more, do you know where I'm coming from? It would make the map so much more interesting. i think it is okay here as the sounds are very clear and there is a hard stop on 00:13:944 (3) - which i am also going to add to the top diff for consistency (since its a 1/4 slider rn in the top diff): this hard stop makes the rhythm + pattern super interesting and crisp to play
00:14:806 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - omg.. this is incredimentally fast.. loljk cool idea with the build up haha it gets fast... eventually
00:32:565 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4) - You should be careful wit hthe hitsounds. Sometimes you place heavy hitsounds for parts which actually deserved less. Having objects here is perfectly fine - I just wouldn't accentuate them like dat. i will ask around and get opinions on how to fix because i am not the best hitsounded, i might lower hitsound volume here? is that a solution? fanzhen did the hitsounds i just adapted them to the harder diffs so i am trying not to mess too much with his hitsounding
00:36:186 (1) - let's start the party LOL omg i love fast sliders ZOOM
01:19:979 (1) - Ok I see what you did there, but I'd suggest a 1/16 slider with maybe 5.0x SV. The effect would be so cooler LOL Maybe not that excessive but you should see where I'm coming frmo. for me, i think the slow slider before really really fast sliders coming in the kiai is cooler: if i make it a fast slider it'll seem cheap and random for the player who will 100% miss the slider end

crazyyy thank you

[unhinged]

00:02:392 (1,2,1,2) - Same as always. this pattern is kind of in the middle of the one from expert and the one from hi speed eXtReMe for me, instead of changing the rhythm i buffed the spacing between 00:02:479 (2,1) - to emphasize the vocal sounds more like you wanted: hopefully this is a good compromise solution

I honestly don't have something to say in this map - to me it seems reasonably mapped. I feel like if I mentioned something in the earlier diffs, it applies to this one as well - so please give your best to make the fixes consistent with your map. consistency'd (hopefully)

thanks so much for the mod! i learned a lot about spread and lower diffs that i didn't know before

i am going to get a hitsound check from someone if possible on all the diffs after gder's apply mod to triple check nothing's off/missing

Last edited by Kaifin 2017-04-30T07:08:03+00:00, edited 2 times in total.

lcfc

813 posts

Joined October 2015

lcfc 2017-04-30T06:19:55+00:00

@loli 00:37:910 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - u screwed this stream up lol, why is there emphasis on the blue tick? either emphasize it 00:38:255 (5) - here or even 00:38:168 (4) - here if u want to follow the sound but the current way doesn't really follow anything

edit: also here 00:43:427 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) -

Last edited by lcfc 2017-04-30T07:07:15+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

revurii

42 posts

Joined March 2014

revurii 2017-04-30T06:42:21+00:00

Irreversible wrote:
Hi! hello owo

[Lolirii's Collab Expert]
01:00:237 (4,5) - That stack seems unnecessarily mean.. don't you think you'd want to keep the flow you have so far and somehow get rid off it? I wanted the stack because of the stopping effect, and because 01:00:410 (5) - is a slider players shouldn't make a mess if they overstream.
01:01:186 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - omg lol, very creative Thanks uwu
01:05:755 (4,5) - Same. I do know why you did it, but I think it's not a very good solution to this. People will probably spam over it and will be left with "why did i 100 or miss here" Same reason as 01:00:237 (4,5) -
01:10:324 (2) - NC Fixed
01:19:634 (1,2,1) - While I adored the part before, I think this pattern in general doesn't fit. 01:19:806 (2) - is so different to 01:19:634 (1) - , and thus imo shouldn't be copied. I'm sure you can come up with something more creative, considering what you've pulled off so far. wobble impact
01:32:048 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - the ds here looks somehow weird.. intentional? I think I wanted to decrease the spacing before but apparently ignored it later on. Fixed lol

woww i loved it lol, but i don't even know the mappers <3 from mentorship program

hehe

1,960 posts

Joined November 2012

hehe 2017-04-30T14:23:52+00:00

i live for this

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Shiirn 2017-04-30T14:27:35+00:00

k

Last edited by Shiirn 2017-05-01T05:44:50+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Kaifin

745 posts

Joined April 2013

Topic Starter

Kaifin 2017-04-30T19:46:23+00:00

Shiirn wrote:
One of the biggest things you need to look out for when taking liberties with the rhythm is staying consistent within your own theme; even moreso when you have a song like polygon, that's inherently unpredictable and has many changes in rhythm.

That said:
[unhinged]
00:27:910 (1,2,3) - This is fine, but it just makes 00:29:289 (1,2) - play awkwardly. I really suggest making the 1/4 sliders into full 1/2s to maintain a more consistent rhythm, especially since you're ignoring the strong beats for the weaker ones (which are admittedly more interesting). If there's a problem with skipping over 00:29:634 - , remember that you skipped over 00:28:255 - just fine. okay so to explain: 00:29:289 - this is emphasizing the high pitched double rhythm that is also supported by the synth and later the drums (hence the change from sliders to doubles halfway through) as seen in here ---> 00:29:289 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - now with that in mind, 00:27:910 (1,2,3) - is following the low pitched synth here which is most prominent: these two patterns have nothing to do with each other and do not make each other 'awkward' as much as a normal 1/4 slider makes a 1/2 slider near it uncomfortable, its technical and reading based but certainly not uncomfortable, this part was changed from making 00:29:289 (1,2) - clickable previously, and playtesters have all agreed this new rhythm + patterning is quite comfortable
00:31:358 (1,2,3) - Cool, you enhance that triple in the backgrou- 00:32:048 (1,2) - there's literally nothing here. I can understand filling in the song to make your rhythms more consistent but if the song itself does nothing at all to even hint that you should fill it in, you probably shouldn't because then you'd be mapping it wrong. The same actually goes for 00:32:565 (2,1,2,3) - the hitsounding makes this seem like something it isn't. you're adding a rhythm with hitsounding that you're not actually emphasizing because it doesn't actually exist.. If that isn't deceptive to the player, I don't know what is. there are drums there you should try and give it a listen on 50% and see if you can hear it better lol... i don't know what else to say other than they are a slightly lower pitch than last time so i can understand if you have trouble hearing them but they not only exist but deserved to be clickable for both rhythm consistency and proper emphasis of the sound
00:45:496 (1,2) - I wonder if you've had this playtested. Due to how you space out the patterns, 90% of players capable of playing this map will always read this as one of the insane 1/4 jumps. Can't you move it around like 00:46:703 (1,2) - ? Change the angles and the spacing to make it clear that this isn't a crazy 1/4 jump. Part of it comes from the fact that there feels like there should be a click 00:45:582 - here due to how you've usually mapped the song, but there isn't. (same with 00:42:824 - but that's a different problem) i can see how this might appear to be 'unreadable' or unreasonable but it really isn't, literally no one has ever misread this as 1/4 because it's very very very very clear due to 00:44:806 (1,2,1,2) - that is isn't: the 1/4 sliders reset the reading of the player and allow them to read this easily as 1/2 + the flow is very cool as it and changing it or buffing the spacing would make it feel off,
you'll also note the spaced 1/4 directly after this is spaced less in order to be readable
00:50:151 (2,3,1) - 00:50:668 (1,2,3) - yeah uh some how, some way, these should have the same numbering in combo patterning because hahahaha yeah.... for readability! note the no nc between 00:49:979 (1,2) - which is consistent: just because it isn't NC'd to accommodate the way you're thinking of the patterns doesn't mean it's inconsistent
01:00:582 (1,2,3) - There's literally nothing here to justify such high spacing. It's inconsistent with your own patterning, there's nothing in the song, and there's no noticeable or feasible reason for it to be this large. the emphasis on these notes is much more in the music than the other's around it?? the triplet click is much stronger and more emphasized in the song than anything else here
01:07:048 (3) - Should have some form of snare or clap hitsound. added! it was missing a whistle though
01:45:928 (2,3) - Don't you think these should be made more separate from the 1 due to how the 2,3, are on different instruments from the 1? i hear it more as there are 3 notes there of the instrument that you hear at 2/3 but the drum hit just covers it, since you can hear the beginning of the sound at 1 before the drum beat covers it
01:48:686 (2,3) - ^idk it's consistent i guess
01:52:910 (2,3,4,5) - Yeah i can see the purpose of "Final buzz of the map, it's 1/6 instead of 1/4 to be harder" and i can tell you that's bullshit just make it 1/8 sliders or something please. This isn't "a final challenge" it's just a slap in the face. ok i will make 1/8 buzz slider but i think you're kind of looking at this wrong, but it had been suggested before so i think its a good idea to make it a buzz: this isn't difficult at all for the player to play and feels quite cathartic lol it's not unfair or anything it just felt fitting to me, but since there was so many complaint about it i will change
The kiai was better than I expected but it still screams out "This is a map made for watching high-level players play it, not to be played itself" and that always churns my guts. Sure, you reach a broader audience by making it more fun for the 99% to watch, but if you're spurning your target audience for their audience, that doesn't bode well. something to understand that may be a somewhat foreign concept in mapping: i actually made this map for myself, as an expression of how i felt the music should be represented, which i know is kind of a crazy idea in 2017

this map isn't going to be pp for anyone, i didn't map it for a crazy cookiezi play, i mapped it because i love this song: if i really wanted to map this just for attention why would i spend 3 months making like 9 diffs all with different concepts when i could have just made a 6 diff set with all gds

the playability of this map has been more than proven, not only by over 50 playtesters (seeing as for a while i had a hard time finding a time where people WEREN'T playing the map a month ago), but by the fact that i can play it myself and fundamentally understand the kind of flow that is comfortable to a high level tech player simply by being a high level tech player

edit: why kancolle tag bg

thank you for the mod

Shiirn

2,896 posts

Joined August 2010

Shiirn 2017-04-30T23:07:32+00:00

ok

Last edited by Shiirn 2017-05-01T05:44:40+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Sota Fujimori - polygon

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Sota Fujimori - polygon

Xilver wrote:

Ascendance wrote:

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fanzhen

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fahzhen's Another

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bonzi buddy

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