I LIKE ITHinpoppo wrote:
How about we just really also over-inflate accuracy stuff so that if you get close to 1m your PP goes super inflate like shwabang
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how do you guys think about new DT system ?
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I understand the ranting and all the complaints here but keep it reasonable. It was interesting to see Halogen and Bubbler but seeing useless meme spam and shitposting is something I just wont allow.
If you want to complain, do it reasonably, express your opinion in a polite way and bring up SOLUTIONS instead of just bitching about how bad this is or isnt.
Now for my personal opinion, I think this is super unbalanced, super unfair and in general it seems like noone really thought about the consecuences of adding this feature. Thats the main issue in my opinion, people was thinking nothing bad could happen and well, here we are.
It is crazy that now there is actually no reason to play nomod anymore, since DT will always give you a better result no matter what. Hopefuly this will be balanced or fixed. If it was on my hands, I would rollback this, fix SR and then think about releasing this again. Working with stuff that is broken since the first time will never lead to good results (just look at osu!next for example, they had to start from scratch given that the game was quite ouch). This should happen to mania, start again from zero. We will see.
As a player, I dont feel like playing anymore since I am more of an accuracy/LN fan (even tho I tried out DT and it felt super boring) and as a BN I dont feel like ranking maps either. Unless until this is balanced.
Sadly we should give it some time until it balances itself, perhaps even change. Bring up solutions to change this and make it better, thats likely the only way to go.
EDIT: Adding HR wont be even close to help this, as DT+HR plays will just be the same. Sure, it will be harder to smash into DT plays but still, it will just make it worse.
If you want to complain, do it reasonably, express your opinion in a polite way and bring up SOLUTIONS instead of just bitching about how bad this is or isnt.
Now for my personal opinion, I think this is super unbalanced, super unfair and in general it seems like noone really thought about the consecuences of adding this feature. Thats the main issue in my opinion, people was thinking nothing bad could happen and well, here we are.
It is crazy that now there is actually no reason to play nomod anymore, since DT will always give you a better result no matter what. Hopefuly this will be balanced or fixed. If it was on my hands, I would rollback this, fix SR and then think about releasing this again. Working with stuff that is broken since the first time will never lead to good results (just look at osu!next for example, they had to start from scratch given that the game was quite ouch). This should happen to mania, start again from zero. We will see.
As a player, I dont feel like playing anymore since I am more of an accuracy/LN fan (even tho I tried out DT and it felt super boring) and as a BN I dont feel like ranking maps either. Unless until this is balanced.
Sadly we should give it some time until it balances itself, perhaps even change. Bring up solutions to change this and make it better, thats likely the only way to go.
EDIT: Adding HR wont be even close to help this, as DT+HR plays will just be the same. Sure, it will be harder to smash into DT plays but still, it will just make it worse.
This makes no sense seeing as you not playing is only a pp/rank perspective and not your ability to enjoy the ranked (somehow) maps or play unranked. How does PP existing affect the charts themselves and your ability to play them?juankristal wrote:
As a player, I dont feel like playing anymore since I am more of an accuracy/LN fan (even tho I tried out DT and it felt super boring) and as a BN I dont feel like ranking maps either. Unless until this is balanced.
I dont want to play anymore because I have to play DT in order to be considered "better", I think the system now leads you into the wrong path. And I dont want to rank any maps either because it would be just ranking the map in a 1.5x version no matter the circustances and I find that pretty demotivating.Yuudachi-kun wrote:
This makes no sense seeing as you not playing is only a pp/rank perspective and not your ability to enjoy the ranked (somehow) maps or play unranked. How does PP existing affect the charts themselves and your ability to play them?juankristal wrote:
As a player, I dont feel like playing anymore since I am more of an accuracy/LN fan (even tho I tried out DT and it felt super boring) and as a BN I dont feel like ranking maps either. Unless until this is balanced.
There is no reason to just play nomod anymore so yeah, that doesnt help. I used to have fun trying to beat my friends scores on maps but now is just the same in 1.5x speed. That kind of gamestyle is in my eyes just flat out boring.
But that's a wrong assessment - you don't have to play DT to be considered better in actuality, only to have more pp - which isn't necessary to enjoying the game in the first place.
Yeah, thats "right" but hey, the point of having the leaderboards/rankings is for something, despite the fact that I can be considered better at X skillset even tho the system doesnt tell that to anyone. Whatever, you get meYuudachi-kun wrote:
But that's a wrong assessment - you don't have to play DT to be considered better in actuality, only to have more pp - which isn't necessary to enjoying the game in the first place.
But you're allowed nomod/DT scores now on the scoreboards right? The same as it's always been - people can play whatever but you can see thier DT scores now.juankristal wrote:
Yeah, thats "right" but hey, the point of having the leaderboards/rankings is for something, despite the fact that I can be considered better at X skillset even tho the system doesnt tell that to anyone. Whatever, you get meYuudachi-kun wrote:
But that's a wrong assessment - you don't have to play DT to be considered better in actuality, only to have more pp - which isn't necessary to enjoying the game in the first place.
I have to say, prior to this update, what you are saying about DT was pretty much replaced with 7k which I think is even worse from a competitive stand point. I'm sure you don't disagree that the previous system was flawed, though.juankristal wrote:
Yuudachi-kun wrote:
I dont want to play anymore because I have to play DT in order to be considered "better", I think the system now leads you into the wrong path. And I dont want to rank any maps either because it would be just ranking the map in a 1.5x version no matter the circustances and I find that pretty demotivating.
There is no reason to just play nomod anymore so yeah, that doesnt help. I used to have fun trying to beat my friends scores on maps but now is just the same in 1.5x speed. That kind of gamestyle is in my eyes just flat out boring.
That being said, in order to keep players happy, there are going to have to be more high SR to play. Like, a lot. I'm not quite sure you can pump those out without a loss of quality somewhere. You can keep this game as more of an accuracy game, but people will just end up leaving for stepmania or BMS when things get too easy and the pacing on progression halts. It should stay one game or the other, else the debate will never end.
I really have no idea how this can be cleaned up properly, but I don't see any of the outcomes being truly satisfactory for everyone without changing the inherent flaws in the game.
( I wish I could write extensively on this but ugh I was supposed to sleep literally hours ago )
The idea and purpose is good, but the metrics is poor. 2.5k pp for non-FC play is a little too much. It should be more tame :O
I do have a concern about DT in Mania. In other modes you are either forced to play with godly reaction on DT alone, or have your screen clustered with hit-objects on EZ DT. Unlike all other modes, the scroll speed in Mania can be adjusted regardless of the maps to suit the reading abilities of the player. It's akin to warping an AR11 DT map into an AR8 DT map but it gives the same pp regardless. So DT in Mania should not give as much pp other modes, because the players have the choice to play in their comfort zones of reading.
:O
I do have a concern about DT in Mania. In other modes you are either forced to play with godly reaction on DT alone, or have your screen clustered with hit-objects on EZ DT. Unlike all other modes, the scroll speed in Mania can be adjusted regardless of the maps to suit the reading abilities of the player. It's akin to warping an AR11 DT map into an AR8 DT map but it gives the same pp regardless. So DT in Mania should not give as much pp other modes, because the players have the choice to play in their comfort zones of reading.
:O
You can't really compare mania to other modes. It's very different in terms of the PP system in where it gives no combo bonus or anything of the sort it relies solely on accuracy. Also I really don't think mania should have an AR. It seems pretty pointless and wouldn't be comfortable for many players. DT is there to speed up the map itself not the scroll speed. And in turn DT does take a lot of skill In mania, no matter how you look at kt there is skill that goes into it you can't just smash your keyboard at 300bpm expecting to pass. Sure at higher difficulties you smash your keyboard at points, but everything else takes a lot of skill. Also EZ only affect CTB and Standard in reading ability at higher density maps. So it's pretty irrelevant to bring up in mania as again it's a different mode completely. A 6 star standard gives different pp than a 6 star in taiko and CTB with DT so your last point doesn't make much sense either. Scroll speed was never the most difficult part of mania and that's why it has no modifier in the PP systemHe Ang Erika wrote:
The idea and purpose is good, but the metrics is poor. 2.5k pp for non-FC play is a little too much. It should be more tame :O
I do have a concern about DT in Mania. In other modes you are either forced to play with godly reaction on DT alone, or have your screen clustered with hit-objects on EZ DT. Unlike all other modes, the scroll speed in Mania can be adjusted regardless of the maps to suit the reading abilities of the player. It's akin to warping an AR11 DT map into an AR8 DT map but it gives the same pp regardless. So DT in Mania should not give as much pp other modes, because the players have the choice to play in their comfort zones of reading.
:O
A step in the right direction, but tripped over its own feet and needs to get up. We also saw this bump from a mile away when we asked for this on the Feature Request subforum. Obviously the next step is to fix SR, but I don't that will come soon enough. Imo, the quick fix to this is to just make the score to pp curve steeper for now. While it won't fix underrated/overrated maps, it should fix players getting huge pp with unacceptable acc.
This leads to the following question(s):
Around what score/% would it be reasonable to achieve about 3/4 or of max pp on a map and 9/10 of max pp on a map?
This leads to the following question(s):
Around what score/% would it be reasonable to achieve about 3/4 or of max pp on a map and 9/10 of max pp on a map?
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
??????He Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
Definitely a step in the right direction, though I think reducing the exponential curve of SR is also integral to band-aiding the PP formula for now. I feel that 850K should achieve about 75% of the maximum StrainBase (not directly PP, but it's a very major component of it anyway) and 925K for 90%.abraker wrote:
A step in the right direction, but tripped over its own feet and needs to get up. We also saw this bump from a mile away when we asked for this on the Feature Request subforum. Obviously the next step is to fix SR, but I don't that will come soon enough. Imo, the quick fix to this is to just make the score to pp curve steeper for now. While it won't fix underrated/overrated maps, it should fix players getting huge pp with unacceptable acc.
This leads to the following question(s):
Around what score/% would it be reasonable to achieve about 3/4 or of max pp on a map and 9/10 of max pp on a map?
(I'm currently fiddling with some numbers to properly scale StrainBase vs. SR and also StrainBase% and score, it looks fine for now but I probably need some practical tests first too)
Excuse me as I go shoot myself in the face because this is one of the dumbest things I have ever heardHe Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
You can just change scroll speed to 1 and profit? I dont think the AR thing makes sense in general, in mania you manipulate the scroll of stuff in nomod so it should give more PP if you use 40 scroll speed with you arguments.He Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
EDIT: Also is not like the density are the same. Mania clearly has a lot more stuff to do in terms of density, it just requires not aiming.
as others have said, changing how scores scale based on the total score or total accuracy is probably the best as a bandaid while we wait for someone or a group of people who are ready to increase the accuracy of the star rating system
Topic Starter
try out mania man !He Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
I don't see why you keep comparing mania to other modes...it isn't the same at all. If I were to compare Taiko to CTB then HDFL shouldn't be readable on CTB because in Taiko its impossible to read as all the objects are hidden. And how about combo bomus? Shouldn't CTB stop it's combo bonus at 200 like taiko? See what I mean it's really not relevant at all. These are different modes with different scoring and pp is calculated differently across all modes. Sure to players new to mania it seems like it's broken being able to change scroll speed but when you get to playing it you will notice it changes nothing about how you play. In lots of situations lower scroll makes it impossible to read patterns where higher scroll makes it easier as you just rely on reactions. If changing the scroll speed makes mania so easy then you should have no problem playing it right?He Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
jesus christ dude he has a familymoni wrote:
try out mania man !
I don't mind it, I think this is a good idea at least, since this increases the amount of maps we can play and get pp from. Also it's fun to see top players push themselves to new limits, such as jhlee'0133s ascension to heaven play yesterday.
sincerely, a pp addict.
sincerely, a pp addict.
Whoa dude nice joke you really got us there!He Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
Oh, it isn't a joke?
SR should really have been reworked before a change like this was put in.
If for some odd reason this is kept as is at least put it on separate ranks so it doesn't completely invalidate acc play.
If for some odd reason this is kept as is at least put it on separate ranks so it doesn't completely invalidate acc play.
By this logic, why am i not a top tier player?????? :thinking:He Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now.
i think this new system so cool, but not after i found out that it multiple PP 2.5.
for newbie mania player like me, without this new system its hard to climb to top performance leaderboard, now the difficulty insanely increased.
better revert it.
for newbie mania player like me, without this new system its hard to climb to top performance leaderboard, now the difficulty insanely increased.
better revert it.
Nice baitHe Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
n1He Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
can't tell if serious or actually stupidHe Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Yetified wrote:
can't tell if serious or actually stupidHe Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
he has 40PP in Mania OFC he is serious cause he dont even know about the difference (there is non) of BPM scaled or Fixed you can use F3 and F4 on both to archive the exact same speed such wow
we should swap namesHe Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
Btw Taiko point combo bonus stops at 100 not 200. Kinda similar to how Mania score V2 stopped the combo bonus at 400.Cawub wrote:
And how about combo bomus? Shouldn't CTB stop it's combo bonus at 200 like taiko?
close enough, was just making a point.
He Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
I guess at least he tried - no need to shit on him too hard
Besides, you can already see his inexperience in the mode
Besides, you can already see his inexperience in the mode
Can we direct our attention to thisShoegazer wrote:
Definitely a step in the right direction, though I think reducing the exponential curve of SR is also integral to band-aiding the PP formula for now. I feel that 850K should achieve about 75% of the maximum StrainBase (not directly PP, but it's a very major component of it anyway) and 925K for 90%.abraker wrote:
A step in the right direction, but tripped over its own feet and needs to get up. We also saw this bump from a mile away when we asked for this on the Feature Request subforum. Obviously the next step is to fix SR, but I don't that will come soon enough. Imo, the quick fix to this is to just make the score to pp curve steeper for now. While it won't fix underrated/overrated maps, it should fix players getting huge pp with unacceptable acc.
This leads to the following question(s):
Around what score/% would it be reasonable to achieve about 3/4 or of max pp on a map and 9/10 of max pp on a map?
(I'm currently fiddling with some numbers to properly scale StrainBase vs. SR and also StrainBase% and score, it looks fine for now but I probably need some practical tests first too)
StrainBase% vs Score formula should be dependent on the map.Shoegazer wrote:
Definitely a step in the right direction, though I think reducing the exponential curve of SR is also integral to band-aiding the PP formula for now. I feel that 850K should achieve about 75% of the maximum StrainBase (not directly PP, but it's a very major component of it anyway) and 925K for 90%.abraker wrote:
A step in the right direction, but tripped over its own feet and needs to get up. We also saw this bump from a mile away when we asked for this on the Feature Request subforum. Obviously the next step is to fix SR, but I don't that will come soon enough. Imo, the quick fix to this is to just make the score to pp curve steeper for now. While it won't fix underrated/overrated maps, it should fix players getting huge pp with unacceptable acc.
This leads to the following question(s):
Around what score/% would it be reasonable to achieve about 3/4 or of max pp on a map and 9/10 of max pp on a map?
(I'm currently fiddling with some numbers to properly scale StrainBase vs. SR and also StrainBase% and score, it looks fine for now but I probably need some practical tests first too)
For example:
Map A: A Marathon map that is relatively easy for the most part, except for 4 hard sections that have about 10% of the notes in total.
Map B: A cut of the previous map, only taking one of the hard sections.
Because most of Map A is easy, it's easy to get a relatively high score (~900k), but getting more than that requires much more skill, since it requires playing the hard parts properly; getting a near-perfect score is very hard.
In Map B, getting 900K requires considerably more skill than in map A (no easy parts to get easy score on), but getting a near-perfect score is slightly easier than in Map A. Getting a very low score shouldn't be rated high, since the map is so short it's likely to hit a relatively big portion of the notes by lucky mashing.
The score vs pp curve of the maps could look like this:
This is actually the most effective and sensible way to go at it and should be implemented immediately are u guys memeingHe Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
Erlkonig wrote:
This is actually the most effective and sensible way to go at it and should be implemented immediately are u guys memeingHe Ang Erika wrote:
All I'm saying is DT requires incredibly fast reading across all modes except Mania because the scroll speed can be adjusted, therefore it doesn't deserve such a huge boost in pp reward as we are seeing now. Note density is irrelevant because DT increases the note density by the same percentage in every mode, it is not unique to Mania. However the ability to change "AR" to anything you prefer is unique to Mania, and it is undeniably an objective advantage when playing DT. In my opinion DT should only offer full pp-boost when the option "Scroll speed follows song BPM" is enabled.
Basically the main purposes of DoubleTime is to
1. Reduce minimum reaction time,
2. Increase input frequency/agility,
3. Increase accuracy requirements.
Mania lacks point (1) due to flexible adjustment of scroll speed, therefore DT bonus should be nerfed, but not removed because it provides point (2) & (3).
So technically if it gives about 2/3 of what it gives now, it will be more reasonable.
Im done i think people like those Two just inside of the stuff are one of the major Point wy mania cant move forward! at least i got a few requests to help people with o2jam xD im not alone under a bunch of asians any more :3
That's the best way to go if SR isn't fixed, yeah. I assumed that the spikiness will be accommodated for in a future revision of SR and the PP formula will be modified in response to that, which is why I didn't consider it.Full Tablet wrote:
For example:
Map A: A Marathon map that is relatively easy for the most part, except for 4 hard sections that have about 10% of the notes in total.
Map B: A cut of the previous map, only taking one of the hard sections.
Because most of Map A is easy, it's easy to get a relatively high score (~900k), but getting more than that requires much more skill, since it requires playing the hard parts properly; getting a near-perfect score is very hard.
In Map B, getting 900K requires considerably more skill than in map A (no easy parts to get easy score on), but getting a near-perfect score is slightly easier than in Map A. Getting a very low score shouldn't be rated high, since the map is so short it's likely to hit a relatively big portion of the notes by lucky mashing.
The score vs pp curve of the maps could look like this: