Playing for fun is not the best way to improve?

posted
Total Posts
48
show more
DeathAdderz
I think the reason people start saying "enjoy game" is because rrtyui said it (see picture above).

As for "play more", well, it's just true. It's just the general term. I mean, when you do the so-called mechanics training, you also "play more", don't you?
Topic Starter
Blitzfrog

DeathAdderz wrote:

I think the reason people start saying "enjoy game" is because rrtyui said it (see picture above).

As for "play more", well, it's just true. It's just the general term. I mean, when you do the so-called mechanics training, you also "play more", don't you?
Yes but clearly a newbie doesn't think that's what play more means
DeathAdderz
Can't argue about that, but I often see that newbies ask stuff too general like "how do I get better?". When you ask a very general question, of course the answer will be a general answer, which is "play more".

I'm pretty sure if you ask something specific like "how to increase my stream speed?", you will get some good advice other than simply "play more".
Jukkii
Better questions mean better answers.
But usually when low rankers ask for advice, they ask "how to get good" but instead of answering with "play more" i do the work for them and create their question for them in my mind by looking at their profile and figuring out their weaknesses, then giving advice based on that.

As for OP, yes. Playing for fun is not (usually) the most effective way to improve, however, if you really enjoy playing this game like i do, even training can be really fun (ive been gifted with the ability to start liking something simply by deciding so, usually i do it with music). Also playing for improvement can be fun, as many people enjoy improving and setting better scores than before.
Edgar_Figaro

DeathAdderz wrote:

Can't argue about that, but I often see that newbies ask stuff too general like "how do I get better?". When you ask a very general question, of course the answer will be a general answer, which is "play more".

I'm pretty sure if you ask something specific like "how to increase my stream speed?", you will get some good advice other than simply "play more".
Nah you will still get "Play more" or slightly more specific of "Play more stream maps"
-Makishima S-
My point is, why is it that everything requires training in specific areas and every training is almost not fun, yet the advice given here is "enjoy game", sure this is a video game, but improving in it is also a joy. You don't go around defining what is fun for people, maybe they find the competitiveness fun. Just a thought
Don't compare real life sport training for improvement to computer game, this are two different worlds.
Forcing yourself to do somethign which isn't fun doesn't give any significant improvement.
Simple example: Take a swimmer and tell him to learn Juji-tsu knowing he is not interested in this. I can assure you that someone who enjoy juji-tsu and put his heart into training because "he like it" will achieve more in 6 horus per day than this swimmer training 12 hours while he doesn't like it.

"Pls enjoy game" is good way to start, if you don't enjoy game - why you ever play? Retorical question btw. Either you are hypocrit who search for internet fame or shit. You will not achieve anything if you don't enjoy your activity.

"Play more" is practically proven best form of training in this game. There is no strategies, no tutorials, no guidelines for technical things like streaming, faster tapping etc. All comes to simple training - actually playing this game. More you play, more experience you gain. Simple tasks which require any type of muscle activity gives best output by training muscle memory. osu! is a stupidly simple 2D game.

Playing for fun is one way of improving. Playing specific even most hated pattern is other.
Many players achieved a lot by just playing for fun and best example of this is Rohulk who was having fun in countless multiplayer matches where he just played this game for pure fun.
DeathAdderz

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

DeathAdderz wrote:

Can't argue about that, but I often see that newbies ask stuff too general like "how do I get better?". When you ask a very general question, of course the answer will be a general answer, which is "play more".

I'm pretty sure if you ask something specific like "how to increase my stream speed?", you will get some good advice other than simply "play more".
Nah you will still get "Play more" or slightly more specific of "Play more stream maps"
Of course those people exist, but well, you get the point.
M3ATL0V3R

Blitzfrog wrote:

I know many people ask the best way to improve here in G&R and lots of the response is to enjoy game, I think otherwise.

I base the assumption on the fact that people train in anything they do, and training is generally not fun.

For me, I play badminton, and had I just "had fun" and just enjoyed the sport, I would never be even close to my current standard.
Now you might argue that this is a video game, and video games are for fun, I would argue otherwise as well.
I base this on the fact that I personally know a few pro DOTA2 players and Starcraft players. They do not simply just "play more" and improve, instead, they focus on parts of the game and train in that area. They call it mechanics training, and I have had a taste of it, it is far from fun, 30minutes doing the same thing over and over again, but the results are astonishing.

Another example would be piano, do you think professionals just keep playing pieces they enjoy to improve? They don't, they play scales. Sure playing the pieces you love will improve your skills, but it won't take you far and you will end up with lots of technical flaws, e.g. tensing up too much or wrong fingering when descending ...etc.

My point is, why is it that everything requires training in specific areas and every training is almost not fun, yet the advice given here is "enjoy game", sure this is a video game, but improving in it is also a joy. You don't go around defining what is fun for people, maybe they find the competitiveness fun. Just a thought
From your post I can see three main points

1. Fun can be detrimental to improvement as it is a poor guide for what to train

This is true, what you find fun isn't always what you need to do to improve. Many people like to play what they are good at and familiar with which is bad because to improve the fastest you frequently need to do what is new or out of your comfort zone

2. Training generally is not fun and therefore fun doesn't really help you improve

I disagree with this, having fun engages the brain and speeds up improvement if done in the right way. However the fun has to be in the context of figuring out the game or feeling the rhythm not in the context of relaxing or habit.

3. Pro starcraft and dota players do not just "play more" they train a specific area.

When people say play more they don't mean to just play whatever, they usually say this to people who are complaining about their lack of improvement while not putting in enough practice
Topic Starter
Blitzfrog

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

From your post I can see three main points

1. Fun can be detrimental to improvement as it is a poor guide for what to train

This is true, what you find fun isn't always what you need to do to improve. Many people like to play what they are good at and familiar with which is bad because to improve the fastest you frequently need to do what is new or out of your comfort zone

2. Training generally is not fun and therefore fun doesn't really help you improve

I disagree with this, having fun engages the brain and speeds up improvement if done in the right way. However the fun has to be in the context of figuring out the game or feeling the rhythm not in the context of relaxing or habit.

Ok just want to clarify, I haven't seen any study about having fun engages the brain anymore than not having fun, nor have I found a study that shows that it does speed up improvement. However I have found plenty of studies that show an increase in motivation levels after having fun, which maybe the key to improving in long term, but as the title of this post is focused on best way to improve in general, I meant as in the fastest way to improve. Also another thing is, the fun you receive after training is just 10 times better really. The increased speed, the increased stamina by a dramatic amount, it really makes it more fun when you improve.

3. Pro starcraft and dota players do not just "play more" they train a specific area.

When people say play more they don't mean to just play whatever, they usually say this to people who are complaining about their lack of improvement while not putting in enough practice

I doubt that is what they meant. Also aren't we supposed to be as helpful as we can? Like Jukke wrote, writing "play more" you might as well have posted "be more specific" because at least the latter is of use.
-Makishima S-
Searching magical ways of fast improvement in simple as motherfuck 2D game is like searching for pope wife - retarded.
When you learn this?

Best way to improve - play more.

Having fun in activity is crucial for improvement. As i already said, you will not teach a swimmer juji-tsu when he does not have fun with it. Same goes for osu - you will not improve for shit if you don't have fun from playing the game. And game itself is so fuckin simple that.... read above.
[Gaia]
If you enjoy game and play more you'll get better, simple as that
M3ATL0V3R

Blitzfrog wrote:

Ok just want to clarify, I haven't seen any study about having fun engages the brain anymore than not having fun, nor have I found a study that shows that it does speed up improvement. However I have found plenty of studies that show an increase in motivation levels after having fun, which maybe the key to improving in long term, but as the title of this post is focused on best way to improve in general, I meant as in the fastest way to improve. Also another thing is, the fun you receive after training is just 10 times better really. The increased speed, the increased stamina by a dramatic amount, it really makes it more fun when you improve.

The more fun you have, the more often or longer you are in a flow state. Being in a flow state is associated with improvement.

I doubt that is what they meant. Also aren't we supposed to be as helpful as we can? Like Jukke wrote, writing "play more" you might as well have posted "be more specific" because at least the latter is of use.

I agree, "play more" is not very helpful. However a lot of the time there isn't much you can do to improve outside of playing more and enjoying the game which is why they are memes in this community. The problem is even though people are right by saying "play more" they aren't doing much to alleviate the frustrations of the players asking the questions which is the root of the problem and and working with them solves this problem.
Hibiya-chan
But isn't "play more" the most general answer here?

I completely agree tho coz at first, I was originally playing this game for the sake pf playing my fave songs but as time passed by, I learned about the ranking system here and all of that stuff so since then, I've been stressing myself most of the time for the sake of improvement tho I can't say that I'm not having fun at all since everytime I fc songs I get motivated to play even harder maps. I improved the hard way and I think that's the only way of improving, by "playing more" and having enough experience in the game to perform decently coz when a new idea is introduced to you, you don't just get used to it in that instant, you slowly adapt to it tho you rly need the motivation to play so having fun is still a factor in improvement.
Topic Starter
Blitzfrog

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

The more fun you have, the more often or longer you are in a flow state. Being in a flow state is associated with improvement.

Yes but being better at something results in much more fun. Which means training indirectly makes it more fun. Why else would sportsmen do all that training when half of them aren't even attempting to become pro.

I agree, "play more" is not very helpful. However a lot of the time there isn't much you can do to improve outside of playing more and enjoying the game which is why they are memes in this community. The problem is even though people are right by saying "play more" they aren't doing much to alleviate the frustrations of the players asking the questions which is the root of the problem and and working with them solves this problem.

You're right, most players come here due to the frustration they have , and meming at them when they're frustrated is just not helpful (unless they posted in OT which I do troll them). Which is why I kinda decided to put this thought out there in the first place.
N0thingSpecial
Never thought we can actually over think "plz enjoy game" and "play more"

Honestly it's like anything in life you push forward despite how un-fun the process maybe, you will find ways to improve if you want it badly enough, you can feel free to feel what ever you want as "fun" is only a state of mind.

If you want to improve then play more, plz enjoy game cause that's the entire fukin purpose of the game, if it wasn't fun you wouldn't even be playing in the first place, how complicated can you make things seem holy shit
-Makishima S-
If you want to improve then play more, plz enjoy game cause that's the entire fukin purpose of the game, if it wasn't fun you wouldn't even be playing in the first place, how complicated can you make things seem holy shit
OP makies it really dumb and complicated, unfortunatelly.

Yes but being better at something results in much more fun. Which means training indirectly makes it more fun. Why else would sportsmen do all that training when half of them aren't even attempting to become pro.
First off - yes - being better = more fun but it all goes to activity - being fun at all or not. You cannot split this like you are trying to do, it's impossible. Human brain works like it work and if something doesn't give you fun from begining, even training 50 years will still not give you fun on this.
Having fun from activity pushing you to training so you can have more fun.
Having fun from activity makes training enjoyable.
If your training is not enjoyable, you are doing something terribly wrong and you should stop. Either your practice is garbage or your mindset stays on "i get this bad part despite i hate it and i will be better" - nothing more wrong.
B1rd
You only get better my trying hard to improve. 'Having fun' without focusing on improving will not make you better. I know this from experience, I've played a lot but I haven't spent that much time on improving because I find that stressful and frustrating.
Topic Starter
Blitzfrog

Taiga wrote:

Yes but being better at something results in much more fun. Which means training indirectly makes it more fun. Why else would sportsmen do all that training when half of them aren't even attempting to become pro.
First off - yes - being better = more fun but it all goes to activity - being fun at all or not. You cannot split this like you are trying to do, it's impossible. Human brain works like it work and if something doesn't give you fun from begining, even training 50 years will still not give you fun on this.
Having fun from activity pushing you to training so you can have more fun.
Having fun from activity makes training enjoyable.
If your training is not enjoyable, you are doing something terribly wrong and you should stop. Either your practice is garbage or your mindset stays on "i get this bad part despite i hate it and i will be better" - nothing more wrong.
Ever heard of Muhammad Ali's quote? "I hated every second if training, but I told myself, push through this and you will become a champion"

So are you gonna tell me he is doing it wrong? The legendary world champion boxer is doing it wrong? He certainly didn't like training, but certainly loved boxing. But did he just "have fun" and spar all day?

Next not given fun in the first place, so you think kids who are forced to play piano love it when they first touch it? Don't you think they wanna play with their friends instead? Ever heard if acquired taste? There are many things in life that althought you don't like at the start, you start liking it as you be come better. Same thing with osu, eve Rafis hated it at the start, but now he loves it.

And you're wrong about how human brain works, one of the fundamental principles of attraction is exposure, we like what we're exposed more of. Neurons fire in a a specific way for a particular event, and the more times it is fired, the more stronger it will become, making you more likely to do it again.
Topic Starter
Blitzfrog

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Never thought we can actually over think "plz enjoy game" and "play more"

Honestly it's like anything in life you push forward despite how un-fun the process maybe, you will find ways to improve if you want it badly enough, you can feel free to feel what ever you want as "fun" is only a state of mind.

If you want to improve then play more, plz enjoy game cause that's the entire fukin purpose of the game, if it wasn't fun you wouldn't even be playing in the first place, how complicated can you make things seem holy shit
Did you even read what I wrote....
If TLDR then please don't reply :?
N0thingSpecial
Yes but you yourself even said we as a community can't define what's fun for what player then why are you even bringing up the discussion knowing entirely fun is a state of mind, what's left of this discussion is that "I think training is important even if it's not fun" well duh that's what life is about in the first place, I play the piano I know this shit, I have a job and I know this shit, if you think it's important enough you would turn any negative pressure like training, practice, boring repetitive routine, into something that motivates you to become better.

My point is bringing this up is pointless cause if the player don't think this game is important or fun to start with then wats the point into pushing them to do training

The group people who constantly post "hur dur how do I improve" ot anything vague don't actually give a shit about their improvement, if they did they would've identify the problem and look up Google or ask for specificity in their thread. Bottom line is that if they give half assed discussion topics we give half assed but truthful answer like "plz enjoy game" or "play more"
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply