discussed some general aspects regarding the mapset via irc :3
logs
13:20 Pachiru: Sergio o:
13:20 MrSergio: yes?
13:20 Pachiru: Are you open for requests, I checked your profile but that wasn't wrote o:
13:21 MrSergio: I usually check right away if I'm interested or not
13:21 Pachiru: Oh so it means you check without requests? (I didn't really understand ;w;)
13:22 MrSergio: I give a look at the map right away and decide whether I mod it or not
13:22 Pachiru: Oh okay o:
13:22 MrSergio: well... for mods is just whether I feel like it or no
13:22 Pachiru: You want me to send you a link then? o:
13:22 Pachiru: I see, that's normal
13:22 MrSergio: for BN checks I check quality too
13:22 MrSergio: yes
13:23 Pachiru: that's not a BN check or icon request, but more a mod about general things o:
13:23 MrSergio: let's see...
13:23 *Pachiru is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1173074 Marshmello - Alone]
13:23 MrSergio: tricky
13:23 Pachiru: I'm just reworking the hitsounds right now and that might be good owo
13:26 MrSergio: I suggest to make your hitsounding match your patterns in this case, since you have a really heavy hitsounding
13:27 MrSergio: so heavy that takes over the song
13:27 MrSergio: 02:07:610 (7,8) - stuff like this would better work with a slider instead
13:28 Pachiru: I see, so it would match with the hitsounds, right?
13:28 MrSergio: overall it is... decent I guess. Consider that I tend to evaluate harshly any map so as long s it is something generic and it works I can just say it is decent
13:28 MrSergio: yes
13:28 Pachiru: okii~
13:28 MrSergio: I would have personally tried to express in some particular way those strange vocals
13:28 MrSergio: it is something only this song has
13:28 MrSergio: you usually don't find it on other songs
13:29 Pachiru: erm, i think i'm getting what you wanna say owo
13:29 MrSergio: but it would become something hard to handle I suppose, since it uses a lot of un-intuitive rhythms which should be compensated with flow and spacing management
13:29 MrSergio: oh, you use piano notes too
13:30 Pachiru: the vocals are pretty hard to follow in my opinion owo
13:30 Pachiru: yes owo
13:30 Pachiru: at the begining
13:30 MrSergio: zzz... I noticed them only when I stopped the map after a note lol
13:30 MrSergio: which means that it is a bit pointless to have them
13:30 MrSergio: actually... wait
13:30 Pachiru: no problem ^^
13:30 MrSergio: ah, yeah, it is in the song
13:30 MrSergio: so those piano notes are overlapping perfectly
13:31 MrSergio: which means they don't add any additional feedback
13:31 Pachiru: so? o:
13:31 MrSergio: hitsounding usually "adds" something to the map
13:31 MrSergio: if your hitsounding doesn't add anything...
13:31 Pachiru: oh i see
13:33 MrSergio: 01:29:582 (1,2) - ah, this kind of ruins the movement
13:33 MrSergio: I mean... the general rhythm
13:33 MrSergio: it felt really good with the 1/2 rhythm, but this stands out
13:33 Pachiru: I think Kin is connected owo
13:33 Pachiru: so it means that you don't really like the 1/4 stuff? o:
13:34 MrSergio: I actually use tht a lot
13:34 MrSergio: where it fits tho
13:34 MrSergio: in that section you have that constant 1/1 clap
13:34 MrSergio: the 1/2 sliders are fine since they respect that, but the 3/4 slider is just... ?.?
13:35 MrSergio: 01:42:681 (5,6,1) - I also suggest to reduce spacing a little between these
13:35 Pachiru: i get what you say o:
13:35 Pachiru: okay o/
13:35 MrSergio: ah, wait, this is not your diff, LOL
13:35 MrSergio: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7555837
13:35 Pachiru: no xdddd
13:36 MrSergio: that fail
13:36 MrSergio: lmao
13:36 Pachiru: NP XD
13:36 MrSergio: well, last thing then
13:36 MrSergio: 01:48:174 (1,2,3,4) - this pattern is sort of boring tbh
13:36 MrSergio: rather than plain back and forth I would add some additional movement on the other axis
13:36 MrSergio: and that giant spacing... ugh
13:37 Pachiru: okay owo
13:37 Pachiru: its okay if i keep the irc log? o:
13:37 MrSergio: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7555843
13:38 MrSergio: yes
13:38 MrSergio: in that screen you add some more "feeling" to the pattern
13:39 Pachiru: the screenshot you send me looks pretty interesting ! o:
13:39 Pachiru: i'll talk with him for some changes then o:
13:39 MrSergio: he PM'd me xD
13:39 Pachiru: I think yes owo
13:44 MrSergio: let's switch to your diffs then
13:45 MrSergio: 00:14:159 (2) - notes like this make the map plain. What I mean by that is that you dilute the player's attention instead of focusing it on important things:
13:45 MrSergio: 00:13:526 (1,3) - both of these are following the synth soujnd
13:45 MrSergio: but 00:14:159 (2) - this is not
13:45 MrSergio: it's an addition you made yourself
13:46 Pachiru: You think I should remove it? o:
13:46 MrSergio: yes
13:46 Pachiru: okay~
13:46 Pachiru: so all note like this? o:
13:47 MrSergio: 00:15:216 (3) - ah, this might be a bit too slow xD
13:47 MrSergio: 00:17:540 (3) - yeah, same
13:47 MrSergio: 00:27:681 (3) - from here on it is fine
13:47 Pachiru: actually
13:47 MrSergio: since you have the drum into the song supporting it
13:47 Pachiru: the slow on the sliders is intentionnal
13:48 Pachiru: okay~
13:48 MrSergio: well, more than drum, there is an additional synth doing so, but it's the same
13:49 MrSergio: it may just me being finicky, but I get the feeling that 00:41:413 (4) - and every other similar beat ahead should have more spacing
13:49 MrSergio: or rather
13:49 MrSergio: 00:41:202 (3) - this one should have less spacing
13:50 MrSergio: it's morte a chain of events...
13:50 MrSergio: more*
13:50 MrSergio: your strong beats are not emphasized so well
13:50 Pachiru: i can reduce the spacing of the 3 if you want o:
13:50 MrSergio: you keep using constant DS for 00:41:202 (3,4,5,6) -
13:50 MrSergio: so that translates into "all beats here have the same importance" which is not true
13:50 Pachiru: but I think I'll rework this part
13:50 Pachiru: Since it's very repetitive
13:50 Pachiru: And boring :/
13:51 MrSergio: well, repetition aside, I saw that. The rest looks cool but I do agree some variation may be good
13:51 MrSergio: this part is fairly long after all
13:51 Pachiru: Yes ;w;
13:51 Pachiru: But I literally prefer my Hyper/Hard
13:51 Pachiru: Because I changed the rythm
13:52 Pachiru: it's always the same as the Insane
13:57 MrSergio: 01:54:934 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - umh... maybe it is something you didnt' consider, but structure? x)
13:58 Pachiru: what do you mean for that? o:
13:58 MrSergio: thought so xD
13:58 MrSergio: don't worry about it then
13:58 Pachiru: ;w;
13:58 Pachiru: is that important for that ? o:
13:59 MrSergio: well, it is importnat for a map to have structure
13:59 MrSergio: structure = meaning of your patterns
13:59 MrSergio: if I were to ask you specifically why is that pattern exactly like that... would you be able to answer?
13:59 Pachiru: oh
13:59 Pachiru: no
13:59 Pachiru: i made that
13:59 MrSergio: (it's just one example, this happens in the whole map)
14:00 Pachiru: because that was my first insane and i'm pretty bad at making jumps
14:00 MrSergio: lol
14:00 Pachiru: that's why that's repetitive o:
14:00 MrSergio: well... seeing your map I can feel that you understand how consistency works, but structure is more a mix of reasons and consistency
14:00 MrSergio: it's not about being repetitive
14:01 MrSergio: but rather why is 01:54:934 (1) - where it is, why is 01:55:145 (2) - where it is, and so on...
14:01 Pachiru: i see
14:01 MrSergio: for example...
14:01 MrSergio: 01:54:934 (1,2,3,4) - take these and try connecting them in your mind with lines
14:01 MrSergio: what figure do they form?
14:01 MrSergio: (that's one reason)
14:02 MrSergio: in your current pattern you just have that... 01:54:934 (1,6) - and 01:55:357 (3,5) - are blankets
14:02 Pachiru: to be honest i made this like that one because in my mind that felt good with the synth, but I wanted to try something to make it less repetitive, and since the song is pretty repetitive ;;
14:02 MrSergio: apart from that the objects are pretty much there just because, right ? x)
14:02 Pachiru: some yes ^^
14:03 MrSergio: well, you should try to create more "links" between objects to stay where they are
14:03 MrSergio: wait, let me find something...
14:03 Pachiru: yes, i'm getting what you wanna say o:
14:04 MrSergio: p/5798553 scroll down to where you find the box with "explanation"
14:04 MrSergio: I tried explaining what structure is when you take one pattern alone
14:04 MrSergio: although there is also a more general structure
14:04 MrSergio: (I have a lesson on that on my userpage)
14:04 Pachiru: i'll read that owo
14:04 Pachiru: yes, i read that owo
14:05 Pachiru: i'll rework this diff
14:05 MrSergio: `/np
14:05 MrSergio: ops
14:05 *MrSergio is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1188748 Marshmello - Alone [Hyper]]
14:06 Pachiru: to make this more logic with the song
14:06 MrSergio: this is a Hard, you know o.o
14:06 Pachiru: because i agree with you
14:06 Pachiru: this diff is quite random
14:06 Pachiru: i mean on the placements
14:06 MrSergio: 01:24:300 (5,6,1) - maybe avoid this intense rhythm in the calmer parts of the song xD
14:06 MrSergio: a repeat slider or just a 1/2 slider should work anyway
14:06 Pachiru: i'll change it into a 1/2 slider
14:07 MrSergio: ok no, the 1/2 salider is a bad idea
14:07 Pachiru: o:
14:07 MrSergio: the repeat slider works
14:07 MrSergio: I mean, 1/4 repeat slider *
14:08 MrSergio: I was tempted to suggest a 1/4 slider + circle, but that sounds too complex for a Hard
14:08 Pachiru: Yes sure, I put that here
14:08 MrSergio: and too dense for the section
14:08 Pachiru: I rename it as Hard then?
14:08 MrSergio: I have to check the current HArd yet, but seeing this diff I can say this one is a Hard
14:08 Pachiru: okay ^^
14:09 MrSergio: 02:02:962 (3,4,5,6,1) - ok, maybe not so Hard xD
14:09 MrSergio: the rest is fine tho
14:09 Pachiru: should I nerf this o:
14:09 Pachiru: (like dva)
14:09 MrSergio: yea
14:10 Pachiru: 2 1/4 slider is good?
14:10 MrSergio: surely better
14:10 Pachiru: okay
14:10 MrSergio: may be a bit confusing tho, so make sure they aren't too cramped
14:11 Pachiru: okay
14:11 Pachiru: i made this quite spaced
14:11 Pachiru: so it will be able to read it perfectly
14:11 Pachiru: 02:02:857 -
14:12 Pachiru: oops o:
14:12 Pachiru: https://puu.sh/uGUIL/867504864b.png
14:12 Pachiru: like this o:
14:12 MrSergio: well, you should connect them somehow tho xD
14:12 MrSergio: that way it may be like a 1/2 snap ahahaha
14:12 Pachiru: yes xd
14:12 Pachiru: i just realized while watching the screenshot XD
14:13 MrSergio: well... after checking the Hard I can say you could keep both as they are, but you should try to use shorter chains of 1/2 beats on the Hard
14:13 MrSergio: 00:43:103 (2,3,4,5,1) - like this... too long
14:14 MrSergio: 00:48:174 (2,3,4,5,1) - same
14:14 MrSergio: 00:56:624 (2,3,4,5,1) - ^
14:14 MrSergio: instead of a beat, try adding a 1/1 break instead
14:14 MrSergio: it would really improve the rhythm too
14:15 Pachiru: oh
14:15 Pachiru: you mean
14:15 MrSergio: umh... like...
14:15 Pachiru: soemthing like it
14:15 MrSergio: 00:56:624 - 1/1 slider
14:15 MrSergio: 00:57:258 - circle
14:15 MrSergio: and that works
14:15 Pachiru: Oh I see o/
14:15 MrSergio: that way it feels less intense and more "on average" with the rest of the map
14:16 Pachiru: did the aesthetics is good actually ?
14:16 MrSergio: they are clean, yeah
14:17 Pachiru: nice!
14:17 Pachiru: so I'll change the stuff in the hard
14:17 Pachiru: and then that will be good for it? o:
14:17 MrSergio: I suppose so
14:17 MrSergio: it depends on how it gets changed, obviously xD
14:17 Pachiru: oki
14:17 Pachiru: or
14:17 MrSergio: some modding would be good too
14:17 MrSergio: I just went over big things but there are small details
14:18 MrSergio: a
14:18 MrSergio: 02:07:610 (4,5,6) - please xD
14:18 Pachiru: why not doing like the two other i made o:
14:18 MrSergio: 02:07:927 (5) - just slider works way better
14:19 Pachiru: just owo
14:19 MrSergio: 00:28:737 (3,4,5,6) - I sort of hate what Secretpipe did here
14:19 Pachiru: changed owo
14:19 MrSergio: since those are just random 1/1 notes based on nothing
14:20 Pachiru: you want me to remove it?
14:20 Pachiru: since i fix his diff
14:20 MrSergio: piano could have been mapped better by adding breaks: 00:29:159 (4,5) - delete
14:20 MrSergio: nah, let him manage his stuff
14:20 MrSergio: it's his diff and changing rhythm requires some note re-arrangement too
14:21 Pachiru: oh
14:21 Pachiru: but he wants me to change it for him
14:21 MrSergio: o.O
14:21 Pachiru: to make changes on his diffs
14:21 MrSergio: well, I find this diff boring overall due to the constant 1/1 rhythm it provides
14:21 Pachiru: okay
14:21 MrSergio: it feels like one of those diffs done "just because"
14:22 Pachiru: (he kinda speedmapped it)
14:22 MrSergio: I could probably map the same thing if I were to turn off music, lol
14:22 Pachiru: he made it in 1 hour when he cames home so...
14:22 MrSergio: well, whether it took him 1 hour or 1 week doesn't matter to me tbh x)
14:23 MrSergio: I personally find this sort of rhythm dull and not appropriate for the song, although it is true it has a constant rhythm
14:23 MrSergio: but there are small details that he ignored completely which would have made the map way better
14:23 Pachiru: i'll talk about it with him
14:23 MrSergio: the total lack of breaks is an example of that
14:23 MrSergio: "contrast" is something that this diff is missing, basically
14:24 MrSergio: it's a way to emphasize important sounds
14:24 MrSergio: you put a break on un-important sounds, that way the mapped sounds stand out more
14:24 Pachiru: I see
14:24 Pachiru: But if he does like that
14:24 Pachiru: The map wouldn't feel empty ? D:
14:24 MrSergio: and you can obviously understand that always having a constant 1/1 rhythm is just plain
14:24 MrSergio: no
14:25 MrSergio: it would gain expression
14:25 MrSergio: if done well, obviously
14:25 Pachiru: oki
14:25 MrSergio: on Normal diffs you can actually make up for some rhythm lack with flow
14:25 MrSergio: but it's again a bit hard to manage if you don't know what you're doing
14:26 MrSergio: example of what I mean:
14:26 *MrSergio is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1156885 Qrispy Joybox - Sorairo concerto]
14:26 Pachiru: i'll talk with him about it, and i'll rework all my diffs
14:26 MrSergio: Gabe's diff is already something good by seeing the first 20 secs, lol
14:26 Pachiru: Gabe is good
14:27 MrSergio: yeah
14:27 MrSergio: in fact, the Easy might be good as it is tbh
14:27 MrSergio: I don't like nitpicking that much anyway
14:28 Pachiru: nitpicking?
14:28 MrSergio: 02:01:695 (1,2) - this, this is great
14:28 MrSergio: yeah, it means "trying to find small details"
14:28 MrSergio: take that rhythm I linked above and you'll see how he added contrast
14:29 MrSergio: 02:01:695 (1) - from here the song has a sound that it wasn't used before
14:29 MrSergio: that is un-important for the rhythm he was following before with hism ap, therefore he skipped it
14:29 MrSergio: that break is gold
14:29 MrSergio: that's something Secretpipe didn't do tho and that's why his diff is plain
14:29 Pachiru: I see owo
14:30 MrSergio: it's not bad, but it's not good either
14:30 Pachiru: So Gabe's diff is good owo?
14:30 MrSergio: yes
14:30 MrSergio: nothing big to mention from me
14:30 Pachiru: Okay, that's at least a good point on this mapset xD
14:30 MrSergio: I can't obviously check taiko appropriately so that's it
14:30 Pachiru: No problem
14:30 Pachiru: I've a BN for this
14:31 MrSergio: but the gap between Isolation and Oni is too huge x)
14:31 Pachiru: yes
14:31 Pachiru: but it will be changed
14:31 Pachiru: it's just because Chromoxx
14:31 MrSergio: I hope so xD
14:31 Pachiru: OVEEEERMAPED
14:31 Pachiru: and but 1/8
14:31 Pachiru: :facepalm:
14:31 MrSergio: LOL
14:31 MrSergio: what the... xD
14:31 Pachiru: on the kiai
14:31 Pachiru: that's why it got 7*
14:31 MrSergio: k_hand:
14:32 Pachiru: XDD
14:32 MrSergio: anyway, I guess that's it
14:32 Pachiru: okay!
14:32 MrSergio: sorry if I didn't go in details, but modders can make up for that I suppose
14:32 Pachiru: so it's okay if i call you for having an opinion once my insane if reworked? o:
14:32 Pachiru: sure thing, don't worry about that
14:32 MrSergio: why not
14:32 Pachiru: that's already very kind from you to help
14:33 Pachiru: thanks a lot
14:33 MrSergio: =w=b
13:20 MrSergio: yes?
13:20 Pachiru: Are you open for requests, I checked your profile but that wasn't wrote o:
13:21 MrSergio: I usually check right away if I'm interested or not
13:21 Pachiru: Oh so it means you check without requests? (I didn't really understand ;w;)
13:22 MrSergio: I give a look at the map right away and decide whether I mod it or not
13:22 Pachiru: Oh okay o:
13:22 MrSergio: well... for mods is just whether I feel like it or no
13:22 Pachiru: You want me to send you a link then? o:
13:22 Pachiru: I see, that's normal
13:22 MrSergio: for BN checks I check quality too
13:22 MrSergio: yes
13:23 Pachiru: that's not a BN check or icon request, but more a mod about general things o:
13:23 MrSergio: let's see...
13:23 *Pachiru is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1173074 Marshmello - Alone]
13:23 MrSergio: tricky
13:23 Pachiru: I'm just reworking the hitsounds right now and that might be good owo
13:26 MrSergio: I suggest to make your hitsounding match your patterns in this case, since you have a really heavy hitsounding
13:27 MrSergio: so heavy that takes over the song
13:27 MrSergio: 02:07:610 (7,8) - stuff like this would better work with a slider instead
13:28 Pachiru: I see, so it would match with the hitsounds, right?
13:28 MrSergio: overall it is... decent I guess. Consider that I tend to evaluate harshly any map so as long s it is something generic and it works I can just say it is decent
13:28 MrSergio: yes
13:28 Pachiru: okii~
13:28 MrSergio: I would have personally tried to express in some particular way those strange vocals
13:28 MrSergio: it is something only this song has
13:28 MrSergio: you usually don't find it on other songs
13:29 Pachiru: erm, i think i'm getting what you wanna say owo
13:29 MrSergio: but it would become something hard to handle I suppose, since it uses a lot of un-intuitive rhythms which should be compensated with flow and spacing management
13:29 MrSergio: oh, you use piano notes too
13:30 Pachiru: the vocals are pretty hard to follow in my opinion owo
13:30 Pachiru: yes owo
13:30 Pachiru: at the begining
13:30 MrSergio: zzz... I noticed them only when I stopped the map after a note lol
13:30 MrSergio: which means that it is a bit pointless to have them
13:30 MrSergio: actually... wait
13:30 Pachiru: no problem ^^
13:30 MrSergio: ah, yeah, it is in the song
13:30 MrSergio: so those piano notes are overlapping perfectly
13:31 MrSergio: which means they don't add any additional feedback
13:31 Pachiru: so? o:
13:31 MrSergio: hitsounding usually "adds" something to the map
13:31 MrSergio: if your hitsounding doesn't add anything...
13:31 Pachiru: oh i see
13:33 MrSergio: 01:29:582 (1,2) - ah, this kind of ruins the movement
13:33 MrSergio: I mean... the general rhythm
13:33 MrSergio: it felt really good with the 1/2 rhythm, but this stands out
13:33 Pachiru: I think Kin is connected owo
13:33 Pachiru: so it means that you don't really like the 1/4 stuff? o:
13:34 MrSergio: I actually use tht a lot
13:34 MrSergio: where it fits tho
13:34 MrSergio: in that section you have that constant 1/1 clap
13:34 MrSergio: the 1/2 sliders are fine since they respect that, but the 3/4 slider is just... ?.?
13:35 MrSergio: 01:42:681 (5,6,1) - I also suggest to reduce spacing a little between these
13:35 Pachiru: i get what you say o:
13:35 Pachiru: okay o/
13:35 MrSergio: ah, wait, this is not your diff, LOL
13:35 MrSergio: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7555837
13:35 Pachiru: no xdddd
13:36 MrSergio: that fail
13:36 MrSergio: lmao
13:36 Pachiru: NP XD
13:36 MrSergio: well, last thing then
13:36 MrSergio: 01:48:174 (1,2,3,4) - this pattern is sort of boring tbh
13:36 MrSergio: rather than plain back and forth I would add some additional movement on the other axis
13:36 MrSergio: and that giant spacing... ugh
13:37 Pachiru: okay owo
13:37 Pachiru: its okay if i keep the irc log? o:
13:37 MrSergio: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7555843
13:38 MrSergio: yes
13:38 MrSergio: in that screen you add some more "feeling" to the pattern
13:39 Pachiru: the screenshot you send me looks pretty interesting ! o:
13:39 Pachiru: i'll talk with him for some changes then o:
13:39 MrSergio: he PM'd me xD
13:39 Pachiru: I think yes owo
13:44 MrSergio: let's switch to your diffs then
13:45 MrSergio: 00:14:159 (2) - notes like this make the map plain. What I mean by that is that you dilute the player's attention instead of focusing it on important things:
13:45 MrSergio: 00:13:526 (1,3) - both of these are following the synth soujnd
13:45 MrSergio: but 00:14:159 (2) - this is not
13:45 MrSergio: it's an addition you made yourself
13:46 Pachiru: You think I should remove it? o:
13:46 MrSergio: yes
13:46 Pachiru: okay~
13:46 Pachiru: so all note like this? o:
13:47 MrSergio: 00:15:216 (3) - ah, this might be a bit too slow xD
13:47 MrSergio: 00:17:540 (3) - yeah, same
13:47 MrSergio: 00:27:681 (3) - from here on it is fine
13:47 Pachiru: actually
13:47 MrSergio: since you have the drum into the song supporting it
13:47 Pachiru: the slow on the sliders is intentionnal
13:48 Pachiru: okay~
13:48 MrSergio: well, more than drum, there is an additional synth doing so, but it's the same
13:49 MrSergio: it may just me being finicky, but I get the feeling that 00:41:413 (4) - and every other similar beat ahead should have more spacing
13:49 MrSergio: or rather
13:49 MrSergio: 00:41:202 (3) - this one should have less spacing
13:50 MrSergio: it's morte a chain of events...
13:50 MrSergio: more*
13:50 MrSergio: your strong beats are not emphasized so well
13:50 Pachiru: i can reduce the spacing of the 3 if you want o:
13:50 MrSergio: you keep using constant DS for 00:41:202 (3,4,5,6) -
13:50 MrSergio: so that translates into "all beats here have the same importance" which is not true
13:50 Pachiru: but I think I'll rework this part
13:50 Pachiru: Since it's very repetitive
13:50 Pachiru: And boring :/
13:51 MrSergio: well, repetition aside, I saw that. The rest looks cool but I do agree some variation may be good
13:51 MrSergio: this part is fairly long after all
13:51 Pachiru: Yes ;w;
13:51 Pachiru: But I literally prefer my Hyper/Hard
13:51 Pachiru: Because I changed the rythm
13:52 Pachiru: it's always the same as the Insane
13:57 MrSergio: 01:54:934 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - umh... maybe it is something you didnt' consider, but structure? x)
13:58 Pachiru: what do you mean for that? o:
13:58 MrSergio: thought so xD
13:58 MrSergio: don't worry about it then
13:58 Pachiru: ;w;
13:58 Pachiru: is that important for that ? o:
13:59 MrSergio: well, it is importnat for a map to have structure
13:59 MrSergio: structure = meaning of your patterns
13:59 MrSergio: if I were to ask you specifically why is that pattern exactly like that... would you be able to answer?
13:59 Pachiru: oh
13:59 Pachiru: no
13:59 Pachiru: i made that
13:59 MrSergio: (it's just one example, this happens in the whole map)
14:00 Pachiru: because that was my first insane and i'm pretty bad at making jumps
14:00 MrSergio: lol
14:00 Pachiru: that's why that's repetitive o:
14:00 MrSergio: well... seeing your map I can feel that you understand how consistency works, but structure is more a mix of reasons and consistency
14:00 MrSergio: it's not about being repetitive
14:01 MrSergio: but rather why is 01:54:934 (1) - where it is, why is 01:55:145 (2) - where it is, and so on...
14:01 Pachiru: i see
14:01 MrSergio: for example...
14:01 MrSergio: 01:54:934 (1,2,3,4) - take these and try connecting them in your mind with lines
14:01 MrSergio: what figure do they form?
14:01 MrSergio: (that's one reason)
14:02 MrSergio: in your current pattern you just have that... 01:54:934 (1,6) - and 01:55:357 (3,5) - are blankets
14:02 Pachiru: to be honest i made this like that one because in my mind that felt good with the synth, but I wanted to try something to make it less repetitive, and since the song is pretty repetitive ;;
14:02 MrSergio: apart from that the objects are pretty much there just because, right ? x)
14:02 Pachiru: some yes ^^
14:03 MrSergio: well, you should try to create more "links" between objects to stay where they are
14:03 MrSergio: wait, let me find something...
14:03 Pachiru: yes, i'm getting what you wanna say o:
14:04 MrSergio: p/5798553 scroll down to where you find the box with "explanation"
14:04 MrSergio: I tried explaining what structure is when you take one pattern alone
14:04 MrSergio: although there is also a more general structure
14:04 MrSergio: (I have a lesson on that on my userpage)
14:04 Pachiru: i'll read that owo
14:04 Pachiru: yes, i read that owo
14:05 Pachiru: i'll rework this diff
14:05 MrSergio: `/np
14:05 MrSergio: ops
14:05 *MrSergio is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1188748 Marshmello - Alone [Hyper]]
14:06 Pachiru: to make this more logic with the song
14:06 MrSergio: this is a Hard, you know o.o
14:06 Pachiru: because i agree with you
14:06 Pachiru: this diff is quite random
14:06 Pachiru: i mean on the placements
14:06 MrSergio: 01:24:300 (5,6,1) - maybe avoid this intense rhythm in the calmer parts of the song xD
14:06 MrSergio: a repeat slider or just a 1/2 slider should work anyway
14:06 Pachiru: i'll change it into a 1/2 slider
14:07 MrSergio: ok no, the 1/2 salider is a bad idea
14:07 Pachiru: o:
14:07 MrSergio: the repeat slider works
14:07 MrSergio: I mean, 1/4 repeat slider *
14:08 MrSergio: I was tempted to suggest a 1/4 slider + circle, but that sounds too complex for a Hard
14:08 Pachiru: Yes sure, I put that here
14:08 MrSergio: and too dense for the section
14:08 Pachiru: I rename it as Hard then?
14:08 MrSergio: I have to check the current HArd yet, but seeing this diff I can say this one is a Hard
14:08 Pachiru: okay ^^
14:09 MrSergio: 02:02:962 (3,4,5,6,1) - ok, maybe not so Hard xD
14:09 MrSergio: the rest is fine tho
14:09 Pachiru: should I nerf this o:
14:09 Pachiru: (like dva)
14:09 MrSergio: yea
14:10 Pachiru: 2 1/4 slider is good?
14:10 MrSergio: surely better
14:10 Pachiru: okay
14:10 MrSergio: may be a bit confusing tho, so make sure they aren't too cramped
14:11 Pachiru: okay
14:11 Pachiru: i made this quite spaced
14:11 Pachiru: so it will be able to read it perfectly
14:11 Pachiru: 02:02:857 -
14:12 Pachiru: oops o:
14:12 Pachiru: https://puu.sh/uGUIL/867504864b.png
14:12 Pachiru: like this o:
14:12 MrSergio: well, you should connect them somehow tho xD
14:12 MrSergio: that way it may be like a 1/2 snap ahahaha
14:12 Pachiru: yes xd
14:12 Pachiru: i just realized while watching the screenshot XD
14:13 MrSergio: well... after checking the Hard I can say you could keep both as they are, but you should try to use shorter chains of 1/2 beats on the Hard
14:13 MrSergio: 00:43:103 (2,3,4,5,1) - like this... too long
14:14 MrSergio: 00:48:174 (2,3,4,5,1) - same
14:14 MrSergio: 00:56:624 (2,3,4,5,1) - ^
14:14 MrSergio: instead of a beat, try adding a 1/1 break instead
14:14 MrSergio: it would really improve the rhythm too
14:15 Pachiru: oh
14:15 Pachiru: you mean
14:15 MrSergio: umh... like...
14:15 Pachiru: soemthing like it
14:15 MrSergio: 00:56:624 - 1/1 slider
14:15 MrSergio: 00:57:258 - circle
14:15 MrSergio: and that works
14:15 Pachiru: Oh I see o/
14:15 MrSergio: that way it feels less intense and more "on average" with the rest of the map
14:16 Pachiru: did the aesthetics is good actually ?
14:16 MrSergio: they are clean, yeah
14:17 Pachiru: nice!
14:17 Pachiru: so I'll change the stuff in the hard
14:17 Pachiru: and then that will be good for it? o:
14:17 MrSergio: I suppose so
14:17 MrSergio: it depends on how it gets changed, obviously xD
14:17 Pachiru: oki
14:17 Pachiru: or
14:17 MrSergio: some modding would be good too
14:17 MrSergio: I just went over big things but there are small details
14:18 MrSergio: a
14:18 MrSergio: 02:07:610 (4,5,6) - please xD
14:18 Pachiru: why not doing like the two other i made o:
14:18 MrSergio: 02:07:927 (5) - just slider works way better
14:19 Pachiru: just owo
14:19 MrSergio: 00:28:737 (3,4,5,6) - I sort of hate what Secretpipe did here
14:19 Pachiru: changed owo
14:19 MrSergio: since those are just random 1/1 notes based on nothing
14:20 Pachiru: you want me to remove it?
14:20 Pachiru: since i fix his diff
14:20 MrSergio: piano could have been mapped better by adding breaks: 00:29:159 (4,5) - delete
14:20 MrSergio: nah, let him manage his stuff
14:20 MrSergio: it's his diff and changing rhythm requires some note re-arrangement too
14:21 Pachiru: oh
14:21 Pachiru: but he wants me to change it for him
14:21 MrSergio: o.O
14:21 Pachiru: to make changes on his diffs
14:21 MrSergio: well, I find this diff boring overall due to the constant 1/1 rhythm it provides
14:21 Pachiru: okay
14:21 MrSergio: it feels like one of those diffs done "just because"
14:22 Pachiru: (he kinda speedmapped it)
14:22 MrSergio: I could probably map the same thing if I were to turn off music, lol
14:22 Pachiru: he made it in 1 hour when he cames home so...
14:22 MrSergio: well, whether it took him 1 hour or 1 week doesn't matter to me tbh x)
14:23 MrSergio: I personally find this sort of rhythm dull and not appropriate for the song, although it is true it has a constant rhythm
14:23 MrSergio: but there are small details that he ignored completely which would have made the map way better
14:23 Pachiru: i'll talk about it with him
14:23 MrSergio: the total lack of breaks is an example of that
14:23 MrSergio: "contrast" is something that this diff is missing, basically
14:24 MrSergio: it's a way to emphasize important sounds
14:24 MrSergio: you put a break on un-important sounds, that way the mapped sounds stand out more
14:24 Pachiru: I see
14:24 Pachiru: But if he does like that
14:24 Pachiru: The map wouldn't feel empty ? D:
14:24 MrSergio: and you can obviously understand that always having a constant 1/1 rhythm is just plain
14:24 MrSergio: no
14:25 MrSergio: it would gain expression
14:25 MrSergio: if done well, obviously
14:25 Pachiru: oki
14:25 MrSergio: on Normal diffs you can actually make up for some rhythm lack with flow
14:25 MrSergio: but it's again a bit hard to manage if you don't know what you're doing
14:26 MrSergio: example of what I mean:
14:26 *MrSergio is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1156885 Qrispy Joybox - Sorairo concerto]
14:26 Pachiru: i'll talk with him about it, and i'll rework all my diffs
14:26 MrSergio: Gabe's diff is already something good by seeing the first 20 secs, lol
14:26 Pachiru: Gabe is good
14:27 MrSergio: yeah
14:27 MrSergio: in fact, the Easy might be good as it is tbh
14:27 MrSergio: I don't like nitpicking that much anyway
14:28 Pachiru: nitpicking?
14:28 MrSergio: 02:01:695 (1,2) - this, this is great
14:28 MrSergio: yeah, it means "trying to find small details"
14:28 MrSergio: take that rhythm I linked above and you'll see how he added contrast
14:29 MrSergio: 02:01:695 (1) - from here the song has a sound that it wasn't used before
14:29 MrSergio: that is un-important for the rhythm he was following before with hism ap, therefore he skipped it
14:29 MrSergio: that break is gold
14:29 MrSergio: that's something Secretpipe didn't do tho and that's why his diff is plain
14:29 Pachiru: I see owo
14:30 MrSergio: it's not bad, but it's not good either
14:30 Pachiru: So Gabe's diff is good owo?
14:30 MrSergio: yes
14:30 MrSergio: nothing big to mention from me
14:30 Pachiru: Okay, that's at least a good point on this mapset xD
14:30 MrSergio: I can't obviously check taiko appropriately so that's it
14:30 Pachiru: No problem
14:30 Pachiru: I've a BN for this
14:31 MrSergio: but the gap between Isolation and Oni is too huge x)
14:31 Pachiru: yes
14:31 Pachiru: but it will be changed
14:31 Pachiru: it's just because Chromoxx
14:31 MrSergio: I hope so xD
14:31 Pachiru: OVEEEERMAPED
14:31 Pachiru: and but 1/8
14:31 Pachiru: :facepalm:
14:31 MrSergio: LOL
14:31 MrSergio: what the... xD
14:31 Pachiru: on the kiai
14:31 Pachiru: that's why it got 7*
14:31 MrSergio: k_hand:
14:32 Pachiru: XDD
14:32 MrSergio: anyway, I guess that's it
14:32 Pachiru: okay!
14:32 MrSergio: sorry if I didn't go in details, but modders can make up for that I suppose
14:32 Pachiru: so it's okay if i call you for having an opinion once my insane if reworked? o:
14:32 Pachiru: sure thing, don't worry about that
14:32 MrSergio: why not
14:32 Pachiru: that's already very kind from you to help
14:33 Pachiru: thanks a lot
14:33 MrSergio: =w=b