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Planning on Replacing Mouse

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Topic Starter
scrain8
@Xyrus Well i feel like a heavier mouse would be nicer for stability purposes. But I can't really say since my current mouse is only 3.16oz.

@Llahmah Thats a good point. Do I want it only for OSU.
Rurree
I think you should definitely get the G403. Perfect for those with medium to large hands and claw grip. The Zowie ZA11 is another very good choice.
Luqanted

Madvillain wrote:

I think you should definitely get the G403. Perfect for those with medium to large hands and claw grip.
i'd recommend G403
Topic Starter
scrain8
Is the grip on the sides good?
TakuMii

scrain8 wrote:

Is the grip on the sides good?
I've heard good things about the side grips, so I'd assume so. They're rubber-coated, and I doubt they'd wear down anywhere near as fast as the ones on my Rival did.

Llahmah wrote:

it isn't heavy, people are just weak.
The G502 is quite a bit heavier than pretty much every other mouse on the market (and that's without the optional weights). Also, please enlighten me about how hand strength has anything to do with the properties of kinetic physics, as well as the effect that mass has on momentum and static friction.
Topic Starter
scrain8
Amazon has it on sale ish. Depending on how long the sale last it may be the one. But gotta check the others as well.
Rurree

Llahmah wrote:

it isn't heavy, people are just weak.
No. I play ultimate frisbee a lot which is a demanding sport relying on one's wrists and arms (which means I've put a ton of effort to improve my stamina and overall strength of my arms, particularly my left arm) and I still find the G502 way too heavy for games such as osu, my opinion. It always depends on preference, not on whether a person is weak or not.
Xyrus_old_1
You don't need strength to use a G502, you just need to use it to get used to it. I have no physical strength worth mentioning and I've had a bad habit of lifting the G502 by accident during plays.
Topic Starter
scrain8
Well as long as the mouse isn't light or small then I think I can manage. Maybe I may be able to get a feel for the G502 in a store. But who knows. If I could buy all the mice and try them all I would lol.
TakuMii
I won't disagree that it's a personal preference thing, but in my opinion, lighter will be better when it comes to games that involve lots of mouse movement and fine control.

If you look at it from even a basic physics standpoint, there's more you have to deal with when using a heavier mouse:
long boring physics explanation because i'm bored
Newton's Laws of Motion implies that the heavier an object is, the more force (or the more energy) needs to be applied to change the speed or direction of movement. This much should be a bit obvious, even without any scientific knowledge, simply by comparing a lighter mouse to a heavier mouse by feel (although the slower feel probably has more to do with friction). I'm sure nobody's weak enough to be unable to use a heavier mouse, but plenty of people should still be able to tell the difference between lighter and heavier mice just by waving them around.

One problem that's less obvious is the properties of friction. See, friction can be broken into two parts: static friction (counter-forces that keep a non-moving object still) and kinetic friction (counter-forces that keep a moving object from sliding endlessly). To put it short, friction acts differently depending on whether a motion is starting or continuing, and this has to do with the material of the two objects in contact. Additionally, the gap between the two different types of friction will proportionally increase depending on how heavy an object is.
For a typical cloth mousepad, it has more static friction than kinetic friction, meaning it takes more force to stop a mouse from moving than it does to start moving a mouse from standstill. In the worst case scenario (aka a heavy mouse and a high-friction surface), the effect of static friction can easily be felt, and it can make it harder to avoid overshooting when making very small movements. Kinetic friction, on the other hand, is what most people think of when you say 'friction', and basically just refers how 'fast' or 'smooth' a mouse will glide across the mousepad. Of course, this will differ depending on the material of the mousepad, but the weight of the mouse does play a part in how it feels.

Ideally, you'll want a mouse and mousepad pairing that has low enough static friction to allow you to make tiny movements, but a high enough kinetic friction to keep you feeling like you're in control without slowing you down. This can come down to personal preference, as different combinations of mousepad material and mouse weight can result in very different feels. I personally prefer a lightweight mouse with a smooth cloth mousepad (currently using a Skydigital NMouse4K with a Razer Goliathus Speed).
...or use a tablet. Because, y'know, pens are 10x lighter than mice, and hovering means you don't need to deal with friction.
tl;dr: friction is a bitch, so all the cool kids use lightweight mice or tablets
Rurree
I just don't like the G502 because I have no reason to use it, especially when I could just get Zowie mice or other lighter gaming mice for my games which are mostly FPS. It's highly impractical to use something like the Steelseries Rival 700 and the Logitech G502 when I could use lighter mice for my own comfort and improvement in performance.

I think the G502 is a fun mouse to use, just not good at all for competitive play, UNLESS you've really gotten used to it.
Topic Starter
scrain8
Oh sorry if I make it sound like I prefer a heavy mouse. Current mouse is 3.17oz. Not really sure how light/heavy that is for a mouse. I feel it's the sweet spot. I may be coming back to mouse soon. I do like playing with tablet but I'm always thinking about my mouse. I'll just maybe practice harder with it?
TakuMii

scrain8 wrote:

Oh sorry if I make it sound like I prefer a heavy mouse. Current mouse is 3.17oz. Not really sure how light/heavy that is for a mouse. I feel it's the sweet spot. I may be coming back to mouse soon. I do like playing with tablet but I'm always thinking about my mouse. I'll just maybe practice harder with it?
Actually, I'd consider 90g (sorry, I use metric) on the lighter end of the spectrum when it comes to gaming mice. There are only a handful of mice out there that are noticeably lighter than that, and many of those mice are physically smaller than your current mouse.

For an aim-intensive game like osu! or Minesweeper, a mouse designed for FPS games will be best-suited in terms of weight and tracking ability. And you'll find that most FPS-oriented mice are built to be as lightweight as possible; in fact, many of the mice already recommended in this thread are almost exactly the same weight as yours (Nixeus Revel, Dream Machines DM1 Pro, Zowie FK1, wired Logitech G403). There are a few 'full-sized' mice that are even lighter than that, and while lightness should always be welcome, it's a bit difficult for companies to make their mice any lighter without making their mice feel brittle and cheaply built. That being said, you really should be fine with most of the mice mentioned earlier if you're worrying about weight.
Topic Starter
scrain8
Out of all the recommendations I think I have narrowed it down to either the Zowie EC2-A or the Logitech G403. Going to the store when I wake up to see if they have any of them on show for me to handle them.
Rurree
Logitech G403 is larger. Get the EC1-A instead for a much larger version of the EC2-A so it could be compared to the G403.

Personally I'd get the G403, better sensor, lighter weight, better buttons, only thing bad about it I guess is the cable because I'm not a fan of Logitech's braided cables, or any braided cable for that matter. I suggest you get a mouse bungee to go along with it.
Topic Starter
scrain8
Tried my hands on the G403 and it is a nice feeling. Clicks feel nice. Maybe a slightly shorter actuation? I could not find a zowie to get a feel for. So I felt other mice they had there. This includes the G502, G900, Deathadder, and the Rival 300. The G502 and G900 actually feel nice its not what I'm looking and the price ain't right. Deathadder is meh. I don't know if comparing the Deathadder shape to the Zowie is fair butif its similar then I probably won't like it. The Deathadder is weird. The Rival 300, I'm glad you guys convinced me not to get it because I don't like it. Clicks are terrible.
Topic Starter
scrain8
So I realized something about the G403 and me (actually I learned a lout about myself this motnh). I don't feel like I can get a good handle on it. One of the biggest things I noticed was the front end was elevated quite higher than the sensei. Consquently I feel as though I'm pushing more horizontally across my fingert than downward. This is probably confusing. I think my hand is too small? My hand if I measured right is 17.18cm long and about 8.6 wide. I guess it's back to searching sadly. Is my observation wrong?

I guess its important to note I'm a tap/z/x player.
im a fancy lad
I use the Mazer E-Blue

Pretty good aim, the wired version is quite light, and it has a well built thumb rest which helps when your hand is sweaty.

I recommend it :)
Rurree
Your hand really is small for the G403, doesn't mean it's impossible though. If so, I recommend you try the Nixeus Revel, Dream Machines DM1 Pro S, or the Zowie FK2 for something smaller and a shape similar to the Sensei.

The G403 is that high because it is meant for palm grip and claw grip players, having it lower can cause discomfort. Generally, mice with lower sloped buttons are for finger tip grip, an example of this is the Finalmouse ScreaM One.
Topic Starter
scrain8
The Mazer E-Blue looks sick af.

So thats where I went wrong huh. Ok currently do more research on mice listed.
TakuMii
TBH, I wouldn't really recommend the E-Blue Mazer at this point... it uses a low-power Avago 5090 sensor that is easily outperformed by even the cheapest brand-name mice out there. You could even get a cheap old Microsoft mouse that would perform better at a fraction of the price.
not to mention it has that tacky 'gamer' aesthetic, but that's subjective

Honestly, I think the DM 1 Pro S and the Revel may not be good choices for you, shape wise. As far as I'm aware, they're modeled after the Sensei, so if you already know you don't like that shape, there's no sense going for one of those.
But I do think that Zowie mice may be worth looking into, considering that they're the only company I know that sells various different sizes of each of their mice (also probably one of the few companies that uses top-tier sensors on every mouse they're currently selling). I'm not sure where you'd be able to find some to try though; I've only ever seen them online so I'm not even sure if you could find them in stores.
Topic Starter
scrain8
LOL at the little caption underneath the first paragraph. I didn't know zowie has different sizes for the same mouse. Buying something and having to return each time I don't like it would be inefficient too. I feel like I'm making it harder than it needs to be, but I it's money so gotta choose wisely.
TakuMii
It's fine, it's natural to feel picky if you're looking for when there's so much to choose from :P

Anyways, if you're picking a Zowie mouse, you basically have 3 shapes to pick from: EC (right-handed, pretty much the same shape as the G403), FK (ambidextrous, low profile), and ZA (ambidextrous, steeper 'hump' on the back than the FK). The EC comes in 2 sizes, while the others come in three sizes (keep in mind that the closest in shape and feel to the Sensei is the FK1+, which is the largest FK mouse they offer).
If the only problem you had with the G403 was size, then the EC-2A would be a good choice as it's about the same shape but smaller. If not, maybe go for an FK2, as it's designed for clawgrip and seems like it'd suit your hand size. The ZA13 would also match your hand size, but would probably feel a bit weird since it seems to be more designed for palm grip (it might be alright if you have more of a hybrid grip though).
Topic Starter
scrain8
I didn't know zowie did something like that.

Also I changed my playstyle from M1 + K1/K2 to only K1/K2 if that makes any difference on mice selection.
Endie-
I've used EC2-A, EC1-A and steel series rival. I'm currently using the EC2-A due to it's small size and weight. All of them are great mice
Rurree
I'd recommend op the EC series since the FK series is similar to Sensei and the ZA series is more suited to hybrid grips (like me).
Topic Starter
scrain8
Went back to get a feel for the right handed mouses. On first impression the Rival actually feels really nice on how I grip it (using the same grip i do with the sensei). IMO the rival beats out the Deathadder with by a tad bit. This is saying with the fact I have not ever held a Zowie EC2-A yet. So more than likely it's between them. Most of you agree the sensor on the rival is pretty good but the grip wears out fast. And the EC2-A i don't hear bad things about really. Thoughts?

Also my grip has changed slightly, can't really explain it sinces its awkward to begin with. And I don't click anymore so thats not a factor.
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