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Do you support user-definable AR in ranked play?

Yes
50.79% 96
Yes, with a negative multiplier
21.16% 40
No
28.04% 53
Total votes: 189
Polling ended 2012-10-08 10:50:57
Polling is over and can not be voted on anymore.
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +2,563
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posted
What about making AR rate options open or closed to the users based on the mappers choice?
posted

RBRat3 wrote:

What about making AR rate options open or closed to the users based on the mappers choice?
fair enough, but I'd like to see it off for older maps.
posted
I would only expect it to be applied to maps made after the implementation.
posted

RBRat3 wrote:

I would only expect it to be applied to maps made after the implementation.
nah man. It should be applied on all the maps.
posted

theowest wrote:

RBRat3 wrote:

I would only expect it to be applied to maps made after the implementation.
nah man. It should be applied on all the maps.
Having it go into effect for all will murder old scores and its unfair to those who earned them...
If you or anyone wanted it they could just ask the mapper for an AR opt-able map of the older beatmap that way its a fresh score slate. ( or just copy it yourself with permission and submit it )

Having it the way I just proposed would make everyone happy
-Oldhats keep their scores
-You get your feature
-Mappers can force AR Rate or keep it open by choice
-You can have an older beatmap AR opt-able upon request with a fresh score slate
posted
Guys you're going in circles...

Once again, the only, literally the very single "problem" anybody raised for letting players change the AR on any map ever made to any AR they want on ranked play is that it would make certain plays easier and thus not deserving for the same score as default AR plays.

Solution: give it a score-reducing factor.

Isn't this enough? Why are you looking for other solutions? This is by far the most optimal one.

Only letting users pick higher AR: this is stupid. Reason: once you learn to read a certain AR level, it will ALWAYS be easier for you to play with it, regardless of map bpm. Which means all HR players would only play everything with AR10 and it would make everything much easier for them, and so on.
Like jesse said, a large part of the appeal in AR is actually the added difficulty from lower ARs (forcing you to remember more events ahead). If a feature exists to let users pick any AR they want, it should definitely let users pick lower ARs, because that'd be the most fun part of it.

Only allowing this on new maps: again, bad. Why would you take this freedom away from old maps? really no reason.

I still haven't seen anyone here state any reason why to not just let all users pick whatever AR they want for all maps ever with a score reducing effect. It's a win-win solution. Why the hell not? Why are you looking for anything else?
posted

RBRat3 wrote:

If you or anyone wanted it they could just ask the mapper for an AR opt-able map of the older beatmap that way its a fresh score slate. ( or just copy it yourself with permission and submit it )
Rather than creating a duplicate map there are some BATs that can make changes to ranked maps, if the mapper wants to enable the AR change option they could ask a BAT to do the change and update the mapset.

Still tho, i prefer just to be able to increase it as i said in my previous post.
posted

Sakura wrote:

RBRat3 wrote:

If you or anyone wanted it they could just ask the mapper for an AR opt-able map of the older beatmap that way its a fresh score slate. ( or just copy it yourself with permission and submit it )
Rather than creating a duplicate map there are some BATs that can make changes to ranked maps, if the mapper wants to enable the AR change option they could ask a BAT to do the change and update the mapset.

Still tho, i prefer just to be able to increase it as i said in my previous post.
"I would only expect it to be applied to maps made after the implementation." Meaning old maps and their scores go untouched and the feature locked out to its creator.

I dont think its so bad seeing 2 difficulties

Normal open AR
Normal Fixed AR
posted
The ability to read different approach rates is currently a required skill to become a top-tier osu! player. If everyone could use an approach rate that suited their preference, the game would be cheapened.
posted

Sakura wrote:

RBRat3 wrote:

If you or anyone wanted it they could just ask the mapper for an AR opt-able map of the older beatmap that way its a fresh score slate. ( or just copy it yourself with permission and submit it )
Rather than creating a duplicate map there are some BATs that can make changes to ranked maps, if the mapper wants to enable the AR change option they could ask a BAT to do the change and update the mapset.

Still tho, i prefer just to be able to increase it as i said in my previous post.
9 times out of 10 increasing AR makes it easier, that other 10% of the time only applies to very intense maps. It's unfair plain and simple, AR is a skill just like being able to do jumps, streams and complex patterns, it's part of the map which makes it hard. There is NO WAY to make this fair at all so the best option would be to leave it off. I don't think there is a single person here he can read every approach rate from 1 to 12. This kind of thing would make some DT scores completely pointless, look at mezame and bamboo dance for instance, niko-'s AR11 scores on those are hard due to the approach rate. Add this and AR11 scores will become completely irrelevant and I personally enjoy praising our asian overlords who manage AR11 FC's.
posted

MillhioreF wrote:

increase only makes me sad, I do best with ar8... oh well~
Yeah, I know... I'd like to use it for decreases too. I've such a strong association with AR9 maps being whack-a-moleish that I regularly misjudge AR9 used appropriately as AR8 (and conversely, I have mistaken AR8 for AR9 when a map has very limited look ahead). I'd love to be able to tune those maps down to a level that actually makes it easier to see the patterns and learn the map. Trying to recognize patterns when you can only see a couple circles ahead is like trying to do it with flashlight on... you need to put things together in your head to see the picture, because it's never fully shown to you. And that's a lot more thinking and memorizing than I like to do while playing, because I'm only a casual player. I'd much rather be able to easily play a map at a lower AR to learn it at a penalty, then move on to the regular AR if I care for full points later... much the same way that I can practice a map without FL to learn it, and then try it with FL later for more points. One is applying blinders with space and the other with time.

peppy wrote:

Consider that if it "only makes it easier for some", then there is probably no reason not to add it. Implying that it only helps some means it is a preference and should likely not be factored into this thing we call skill (aka how-to-get-more-points).
I think it's safe to say that for everyone, there exists some maps that would be made easier by changing AR. Those maps will differ from person to person, and to the extent that AR is changed. This is true for most people even with AR only increasing (HR helped me even as a beginner to pass maps I would have had a hard time doing otherwise, and the main thing I was looking for was higher AR for a cleaner map, which would more than make up for any extra difficulty increase in the other factors). It can also be said that decreasing AR will at the very least make things easier for many people on some maps.

Increasing helps people that have trained to react quickly, decreasing helps people that want more look ahead to read maps. These are two different skills, and both should probably be rewarded to some extent. Personally, I'd steer away from making preferences favour reaction time more than things currently do. That moves things further to becoming a twitch game and less of a music game.

Aqo wrote:

I still haven't seen anyone here state any reason why to not just let all users pick whatever AR they want for all maps ever with a score reducing effect. It's a win-win solution. Why the hell not? Why are you looking for anything else?
Yeah, I don't see why either.
posted
Never really thought about this but how about we use hard rock to increase the AR and easy to decrease it? Surely with that everyone is happy?

"but hard rock makes notes smaller cri cri cri." tough shit, you want your map to have a more readable approach rate you should deal with the map being harder (you even get a higher multiplier).

"but easy mod makes the AR too low!" but everything is easier, bigger notes, lower od and lower AR! can't do lower approach rate? tough shit!
posted
Now that i think of it, someone mentioned in here that the rate arrows/blocks/whatever fall/raise in those other rythm games was the equivalent to the AR in osu!, however that rate is also increased/decreased with BPM and works as a way of a multiplier, if AR is going to be compared with that, then it should be compared with BPM/Slider Vel as well, and mappers already set an AR that fits with the map's speed, i'd think if green lines modifying Speed could affect them would make the AR basically the same as those games.

But it doesnt work that way... so the analogy doesn't work.

jesus1412 wrote:

Never really thought about this but how about we use hard rock to increase the AR and easy to decrease it? Surely with that everyone is happy?
Except Hard rock makes some maps actually easier due to the increase in AR :P
posted
you know, if we are gonna go through with this, this should seriously probably go along with the "Easy Mode" mod discussion, where people have discussed the possibility of being able to adjust OD, AR, and HP to a certain extent. Easy Mode kinda does need some reworking anyways.
posted

peppy wrote:

Consider that if it "only makes it easier for some", then there is probably no reason not to add it. Implying that it only helps some means it is a preference and should likely not be factored into this thing we call skill (aka how-to-get-more-points).</2cents>

Also comparing to other rhythm games, the ability to change approach rate is usually a user setting which has no effect on score. Which is where this request stems from originally :P.
These same reasons are used to argue against the osz2 background removal limitation. Just sayin'.
posted

theowest wrote:

Current Priority: +265
Most people think this is a good idea. Most of the people not agreeing with this doesn't even play much osu!
Wow... this is the first post i see from you I consider stupid.

Anyway ... I have no problems at all if this has a negative factor on score. It doesn't have to be a huge jump like HT and NoFail (0,3x and 0,5x). Maybe somthing to 0,8 or 0,9x.
I can understand both sides... even though I am technicly on the contra side. (Only compromise is this reducing score multiplier for me ;) )
People who use it to increase it are people who are better on high AR which means they have a advantage which is unfair ... I already see counter arguments for this one :P But if they get an advantage why not give everyone an advantage by being able to de/increasing high AR?
I really don't understand this "only being able to increase it" part.
But anyways ... I see it coming that most people vote for "Yes" orz
posted
Whatever you do, please let us pick any lower AR too, not just higher. You can already pick higher with HR (altho it's limited in not being able to pick 9 on a map with 8, or anything above 10 without DT, so hopefully this will be addressed). Lower is problematic because EasyMod doesn't let you pick the range you want and there's a huge leap between 8>7>6>5>4.

[Edit] Gonna point this out again because not enough people seemed to have noticed it or it's just being ignored: (and those who noticed it agree so lets hear the others too)
Do you have any argument against letting users pick any AR for any map with a score reduction?

People who want to play with unique AR: can do it freely with no limitations, but can't use it to score against people who used default AR; because if you're picking a different AR it's most likely easier for you, and even if you're doing it to challenge yourself you won't care for score.
People who have to pass the challenge of map default AR: can score normally for 100% without suffering penalty of changed-AR, so they will always rank higher.

It's win-win. Nobody loses anything, everybody gets what they want.
posted
People are only saying yes because it will be easier for them to get a higher score.

Why cant this just be a new difficulty reducing mod with a negative multiplier that allows any AR (lower or higher)?
posted

Makar wrote:

People are only saying yes because it will be easier for them to get a higher score.

Why cant this just be a new difficulty reducing mod with a negative multiplier that allows any AR (lower or higher)?
would be to easy and also there is no advantage for people who want a great rank easily
posted
Got no problem with this, as long as it can be done on a per-map basis, because I'd probably want to go with whatever AR the mapper chose most of the time. This would be nice for those maps where the AR really should have been a notch higher or lower, though.

I don't play competitively in any capacity or care about my stats, so I have no opinion on the score change issue. :P
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