Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. Beatmaps
  3. Ranked Beatmaps (Archived)

chano & 40mP - Natsukoi Hanabi

posted
Total Posts
184
show more
I Must Decrease
908 posts
Joined June 2013
I Must Decrease
Hello there! I have some issues regarding this mapset:

(I see you were inspired by my map, My Hero! Up to you!)

[Spark of Light]
  1. 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - the main melody changes here to 1/2 rhythm however nothing in your map reflects this change. Because you're mapping 1--2 jumps to the drumbeat, this sort of seems like an oversight as prioritizing calm drums like this when there is clearly more important sounds going off
  2. 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - also you should probably map these as sliders considering that you want to highlight the change in rhythm caused by 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - because then 00:20:094 (1,1,1,1) - is mapped to snares 00:20:283 (2,2,2,2) - and these are mapped to the melody
  3. 00:21:518 - have you thought about making this a triplet, to better reflect the song.
  4. 00:22:942 (2) - perhaps you should make this a circle instead of a slider and do an anti jump to contrast the constant movement.
  5. http://puu.sh/x2RCh/94c1287b03.jpg ur blanket could be improved here
  6. 00:46:677 - is mapped to vocals which you seem to focusing, so it seems weird that this is mapped passively
  7. 00:45:727 (5) - you probably should map this as a slider end instead of a circle since its barely audible and really isnt the type of rhythm that i think you should be prioritizing
  8. 01:13:449 - how come you're mapping this passively when u mapped 01:13:069 (3) - actively? seems counter productive to following the song.
  9. 01:16:677 - this is a really bad case of mapping a strong beat to the slider end. Highly recommend changing this
  10. 01:17:056 (3) - in that same light, this note should really be a slider end.
  11. 01:25:411 (1,1) - you should make these two sliders to highlight the same polarity shift from earlier that i mentioned here 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) -
  12. 01:28:449 (1,2,1,2) - why are you mapping these as the largest 1-2 jumps, because you continuously grow spacing when it doesnt really fit, the impact from the vocals on 01:29:398 (2,1,2) - are completely ignored because you have exceeded the limit of the editor
  13. 01:29:778 (2) - also another good place to use anti jumps to break up the monotonous movement.
  14. 01:30:158 (1,2,3,4,5) - can u not, this is extremely excessive
All in all this is obviously the toxic pp mapping that I think players and mappers are most against, blatantly being ignorant of the song for the purpose of more 1----2 pp jumps. Please at least try to map to the song while pp mapping, thanks.

omg 100th post on thread!
Last edited by I Must Decrease , edited 2 times in total.
Yamicchi
1,175 posts
Joined May 2015
Yamicchi
Decline reply here we come~
Nerova Riuz GX
1,413 posts
Joined April 2012
Nerova Riuz GX
wow slower highscore jump what a wonderful pattern for this song!

but seriously, there's obviously a way to map it better - emphasizing different states of vocal, intensity, etc.
and you did everything the same. Yes, the same.
Even at the very beginning, you treated the song with a consistent, but not really compatible way.

for example, 00:37:942 (4,5,1,2,3) - 00:25:601 (4,5,6,1,2,3) -
if you try hard to determine the spacings, the overall density is still wrecked.
the problem is still there even if you made sliders and reduce the total counts of clicks.

I can agree that this map is "yeah maybe ok for rank", but in all the rankable stuff, the quality is quite low.
Kaine
367 posts
Joined July 2012
Kaine
nice song nice map nice MEME 8-) inspired by dakini aka rain btw!!! shout outs
xLolicore-
636 posts
Joined June 2014
xLolicore-
i lov mems
Saileach
525 posts
Joined November 2014
Saileach

Illkryn wrote:

why car go beep beep
becourse is stuck
^ me irl

Xexxar wrote:

Hello there!
defiance
503 posts
Joined July 2015
defiance
this map is the pinnacle of osu mapping, thank you for ranking this amazing song!
Krowzin
257 posts
Joined February 2015
Krowzin
Gratz on great map ranked!
-Sh1n1-
3,402 posts
Joined September 2012
-Sh1n1-
do you have a metadata proof?
cause I ranked the same song long time ago and asked to Japanesse QATs about it:

It seems that artist is a problem cause I ranked my map with:
シャノ & 40mP / Shano & 40mP Link, page of clarification
then another mania map (the last map of this song ranked) got ranked too with:
シャノ × 40㍍ / Shano x 40mP Link
and this is yours:
シャノ x 40mP / chano x 40mP

In conclusion, metadata sucks but I can't believe that there are more than 3 posibilities as Artist. /me summons Kwan
Enon
2,688 posts
Joined November 2012
Enon
mapping is so hard
Feb
1,027 posts
Joined June 2014
Feb
hi there.
I should mod a different map, but here I am modding this!

We should stay for real here. This map was purposely made just for pp and hey that's alright, but the map should follow the song at least a little bit. No? Of course im talking about the highest diff.

Anyway ikimashou!!

General:
The offset is abit off. Judging from 00:41:368 (1) - it at least needs +5ms

Minor things:
00:10:791 - should be nc'd following your nc pattern before.
00:45:925 (1) - stack me
01:10:229 (1) - the ncing is wrong here, If you plan on following the piano here as well. It's a simple 1-2-1-2 pattern here. Also the vocal follows this pattern very clearly not only the piano.
00:24:564 - you forgot the clap on the tail here.
00:38:520 (1,2,3) - these drums are very weak in the song, this much spacing seems unreasonable.
00:54:651 (4,1) - the almost overlapping thing on the tail doesn't look nice imo.

Other things:
00:49:912 (4,1) - this can receive considerably more emphasize as strong as it is. How about buffing these?
another thing that bugs me is that there's really no build up done for 01:04:145 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - these huge jumps. Sure the jumps build up by each combo, but that's not enough to explain these jump section.

rhythm:
00:14:968 (4,5) - should be swapped since you follow the piano with every other slider.
00:57:223 - these triplets are never mapped anywhere in similar cases like 01:00:261 - 00:54:944 - these so why here?
01:00:925 - these are clearly skipped due to simplicity to not have players miss here. These are even very prominent and and are clearly recognizable, but you rather map those almost inaudible cymbal triplets.
00:18:583 (1) - I really don't wanna step on the bandwagon here, but I agree with Xexxar here in terms of importances of sounds. To me it's not understandable that you prioritize the piano until this point and ignore it strictly 00:19:343 (1,1) - on these or 00:20:862 (1,1) - 00:22:191 (2,2) - or these? just to have simple 1-2 jumps that are easier to hit. This does make the map look stale and that's my major complain here not the abusive pp jumps.
00:21:526 - putting a circle here would be an overmap, but it would also help making the pattern play less static as it is right now.
00:34:343 - at first i thought you were following the piano again which is fine, but then you do 00:34:912 - this and im like "vocal?" then I saw the pattern and was like "oh". Follow either the piano or vocal or both if it is possible, but don't ignore what you were prioritizing simply for your pattern.
00:47:254 (1,2) - the same as i mentioned above. 00:46:685 - You do not follow the vocal here, so why here?
01:04:715 (1,1) - these should be nc'd as they actually follow something not like the current 1-2-1-2 comboing you have currently.
01:06:234 (3,1) - these are the same thing, but differently mapped, so the question arises why not align them?

So in conclusion the map is bluntly said a pp map, but that isn't my major concern. It can be done a lot in terms of rhythm and also the NCs are sometimes super misleading which conflict again with the rhythm.
I'm sorry I can't continue the mod from here I've stopped at the chorus, but the rest of the map deals with the same kind of problem!

offtopic
00:17:721 - wow i never realized this had a sound on 1/8

Good Luck tho!
jeffinc
jeffinc
amazing map, riven! :D
lcfc
813 posts
Joined October 2015
lcfc
ellada
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005

-Sh1n1- wrote:

do you have a metadata proof?
cause I ranked the same song long time ago and asked to Japanesse QATs about it:

It seems that artist is a problem cause I ranked my map with:
シャノ & 40mP / Shano & 40mP Link, page of clarification
then another mania map (the last map of this song ranked) got ranked too with:
シャノ × 40㍍ / Shano x 40mP Link
and this is yours:
シャノ x 40mP / chano x 40mP

In conclusion, metadata sucks but I can't believe that there are more than 3 posibilities as Artist. /me summons Kwan


I just woke up so I will answer those 2 mods in a few hours when I have the time and a clear mind.
schoolboy
571 posts
Joined July 2016
schoolboy
finally this is qualified, congrats!!
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN
the proof written by me obviously differs from your current artist lol
Seni
713 posts
Joined August 2014
Seni
it's time to stop
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
There are two controversial points about the artist's name, the first point is whether it's Shano or chano, and second is whether there is an x or & between the two names. I'll have to address the 2 remaining mods anyways, and take care of the metadata.

So let's go ahead and dq for now and calm things down.
QTS
25 posts
Joined September 2013
QTS

Riven wrote:

There are two controversial points about the artist's name, the first point is whether it's Shano or chano, and second is whether there is an x or & between the two names. I'll have to address the 2 remaining mods anyways, and take care of the metadata.

So let's go ahead and dq for now and calm things down.
Noeeeee
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN
ok
Turquoise-
137 posts
Joined December 2015
Turquoise-
grats on disqualify
Shiguri
439 posts
Joined May 2013
Shiguri

Turquoise2 wrote:

grats on disqualify
Nao Tomori
Nomination Assessment Team
3,089 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
Stop shitposting and focus on the map. I'm sure there will be plenty of actual discussion, don't post useless shit to spam the thread.

Side note: I plan to mod this too, as I disagree with the concept. It feels very CBCCesque.
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
fieryrage
1) 00:21:613 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - this is the only set of jumps that decrease in spacing (also accounting for 0.1 SR), why? this is literally the same thing as 01:25:411 (1) - this section lol Not quite. First of all, let's break the circles you have highlighted apart. I don't know where you got the 'decreased spacing' vibe from, but 00:21:613 (1,2) - this is the most intense part of the section, and that is why it's so spaced. If you select it, and rotate it by 90 degrees, you get something like this: http://i.imgur.com/CQos0VL.jpg. Which is nowhere near decreased spacing, but rather the opposite.

Also for these 00:21:993 (1,2,1,2) - circles, they are the same spacing as 00:20:094 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - those which sound the same and therefore the have the same spacing.

As for 01:25:411 (1,2) - this section that you said is literally the same as 00:21:613 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - this section, I'm sorry but you're wrong. It's actually the same as 00:18:575 (1,2) - this.
01:28:449 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - This section is actually the same as the one you highlighted, 00:21:613 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - this.

2) the kiai besides the ending is underwhelming, the only real "big" jump is 01:17:816 (1,2,3) - despite there being plenty of opportunities for intense jump sections ie 01:10:221 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - right here (and no, barely-spaced triangles don't count as intense jumps) And that is because the rest of the kiai DOESN'T feel as intense as the parts I have mapped with 1-2 jumps. I don't agree with you spacing the rest of the kiai time the same as the ending, as there are no supporting instruments for that or climaxing vocals.

01:17:816 (1,2,3,1) - This is the climax of the first kiai, and while it isn't as intense as the second kiai with the drums, the vocals make it so that it called for this spacing.

3) 01:28:449 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - this pattern alone accounts for over 0.2 SR and is overspaced for absolutely no reason, like 01:30:158 (1,2,3,4,5) - this is LESS spacing than those jumps and it's the climax????????? Remember how I told you above that 00:21:613 (1,2) - this is the most intense part of the first jump section? Same goes for this 01:28:449 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - part, but this time there are vocals supporting the jumps while the drums go crazy in the background, which in my opinion is perfect.

Also for 01:30:158 (1,2,3,4,5) - this pattern, you said that it has less spacing and is the climax while not the peak in my opinion, it's where the drums change to a different rhythm, and while it doesn't have the same spacing, it still is spaced and enough, and more importantly, it is more awkward to justify for the slightly lesser spacing. At least for me, back and forth jumps are easier to play than star patterns, which is why I did that.


4) map is 5.22 stars with 01:25:411 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - this entire jump section removed, why are you increasing the difficulty at the last 5 seconds of the map? what's the purpose of doing that? there's equally as intense sections like this in the map but you opted to put the only hard part at the end? not only that, the patterns are also the most generic and basic thing and easy as hell to hit. considering your past "map" was pp farm (that YOU farmed almost immediately as it got ranked) i think i'm safe in saying that you literally made these jumps to map pp for yourself and nothing else

Why do you keep mentioning star rating, and what does that have to do with anything? You are assuming things and the complications this time are different. I have no intention of playing this map for performance points, and I certainly did not do it to satisfy my needs. I already explained why I decided to use this spacing, and it just happened that the intense part of the song is at the end of it, and how I don't agree with you that the rest of the kiai should be as spaced.

Feb
hi there.
I should mod a different map, but here I am modding this!

We should stay for real here. This map was purposely made just for pp and hey that's alright, but the map should follow the song at least a little bit. No? Of course im talking about the highest diff.

Anyway ikimashou!!

General:
The offset is abit off. Judging from 00:41:368 (1) - it at least needs +5ms

Minor things:
00:10:791 - should be nc'd following your nc pattern before.
00:45:925 (1) - stack me
01:10:229 (1) - the ncing is wrong here, If you plan on following the piano here as well. It's a simple 1-2-1-2 pattern here. Also the vocal follows this pattern very clearly not only the piano.
00:24:564 - you forgot the clap on the tail here.
00:38:520 (1,2,3) - these drums are very weak in the song, this much spacing seems unreasonable. I don't agree with you here. 00:38:706 (2,3) - These beats are intense enough to have such spacing. And 00:38:136 (5,1) - this, while 00:38:516 (1) - being the weakest beat, it does have a 1/1 beat difference. I don't see any problems with it.
00:54:651 (4,1) - the almost overlapping thing on the tail doesn't look nice imo. Looks and plays well to me.

Other things:
00:49:912 (4,1) - this can receive considerably more emphasize as strong as it is. How about buffing these? (I'd prefer to keep it as it is.) Actually nvm, I changed the rhythm.
another thing that bugs me is that there's really no build up done for 01:04:145 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - these huge jumps. Sure the jumps build up by each combo, but that's not enough to explain these jump section. What are you talking about? The build-up IS the jump pattern.

rhythm:
00:14:968 (4,5) - should be swapped since you follow the piano with every other slider. I hear two piano notes, 00:14:972 - here and 00:15:162 - here. That is why I decided to use this rhythm.
00:57:223 - these triplets are never mapped anywhere in similar cases like 01:00:261 - 00:54:944 - these so why here? Yes because in those similar cases there is no clear indication of sound in the blue ticks.
01:00:925 - these are clearly skipped due to simplicity to not have players miss here. These are even very prominent and and are clearly recognizable, but you rather map those almost inaudible cymbal triplets.

00:18:583 (1) - I really don't wanna step on the bandwagon here, but I agree with Xexxar here in terms of importances of sounds. To me it's not understandable that you prioritize the piano until this point and ignore it strictly 00:19:343 (1,1) - on these or 00:20:862 (1,1) - 00:22:191 (2,2) - or these? just to have simple 1-2 jumps that are easier to hit. This does make the map look stale and that's my major complain here not the abusive pp jumps. Like I said, what I am doing here is consistently following the rhythm of the drums, (literally they play the same rhythm for 5 seconds) and since there is no variation to them, there will be no variation to the jumps either, hence why they seem like stagnant 1-2s. To account for that, since the drums on (1)s are a bit more intense, when you are coming from (2), they always have higher distance spacing to compensate for that. This is how I interpreted the song the first time I heard it, it's not something I did to deliberately abuse pp. While it's true that in fact the nature of the jumps do that to a certain degree, it also goes without saying that it's the song that what allows for those jumps. I wouldn't randomly place 1-2 jumps where they don't fit. And for me they truly do seem like they fit. Some people have agreed with me on the intensity of the drums while others say that I should just map sliders. I personally think that it depends from person to person, and there is no 'right way' to map it.

00:21:526 - putting a circle here would be an overmap, but it would also help making the pattern play less static as it is right now. I'd rather not do that, it certainly is overmapped, and for such a controversial map where people are nitpicking everything, it could even be a reason for disqualification again.
00:34:343 - at first i thought you were following the piano again which is fine, but then you do 00:34:912 - this and im like "vocal?" then I saw the pattern and was like "oh". Follow either the piano or vocal or both if it is possible, but don't ignore what you were prioritizing simply for your pattern. 00:34:719 (4,5) - There is no piano on these notes, so I have to map something, I can't just leave it empty right? I'm not exactly following the vocals, they are actually corresponding to the drums.
00:47:254 (1,2) - the same as i mentioned above. 00:46:685 - You do not follow the vocal here, so why here?
01:04:715 (1,1) - these should be nc'd as they actually follow something not like the current 1-2-1-2 comboing you have currently. I'd rather keep those NC'd.
01:06:234 (3,1) - these are the same thing, but differently mapped, so the question arises why not align them? What do you mean by align?

So in conclusion the map is bluntly said a pp map, but that isn't my major concern. It can be done a lot in terms of rhythm and also the NCs are sometimes super misleading which conflict again with the rhythm.
I'm sorry I can't continue the mod from here I've stopped at the chorus, but the rest of the map deals with the same kind of problem!

offtopic
00:17:721 - wow i never realized this had a sound on 1/8

Points made that are left unanswered are changed.

Good Luck tho!

Xexxar
Hello there! I have some issues regarding this mapset:

(I see you were inspired by my map, My Hero! Up to you!)

[Spark of Light]
  1. 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - the main melody changes here to 1/2 rhythm however nothing in your map reflects this change. Because you're mapping 1--2 jumps to the drumbeat, this sort of seems like an oversight as prioritizing calm drums like this when there is clearly more important sounds going off
  2. 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - also you should probably map these as sliders considering that you want to highlight the change in rhythm caused by 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - because then 00:20:094 (1,1,1,1) - is mapped to snares 00:20:283 (2,2,2,2) - and these are mapped to the melody
  3. 00:21:518 - have you thought about making this a triplet, to better reflect the song. I have already answered to all 3 points you made above, in Feb's mod, please refer to that if you're interested in my reply.
  4. 00:22:942 (2) - perhaps you should make this a circle instead of a slider and do an anti jump to contrast the constant movement. No,
    I'd rather emphasize on the cymbal with an angle change using a slider. plus, I don't want to leave a 1/1 gap open here 00:23:136 - .
  5. http://puu.sh/x2RCh/94c1287b03.jpg ur blanket could be improved here That is the least of my worries right now, but fixed, thanks :
    )
  6. 00:46:677 - is mapped to vocals which you seem to focusing, so it seems weird that this is mapped passively
  7. 00:45:727 (5) - you probably should map this as a slider end instead of a circle since its barely audible and really isnt the type of rhythm that i think you should be prioritizing
  8. 01:13:449 - how come you're mapping this passively when u mapped 01:13:069 (3) - actively? seems counter productive to following the song.
  9. 01:16:677 - this is a really bad case of mapping a strong beat to the slider end. Highly recommend changing this I decided to keep this slider as it is But instead I changed 01:16:870 (2) - this into a slider, they used to be circles, which is the point you made below actually lol I just saw that.
  10. 01:17:056 (3) - in that same light, this note should really be a slider end.
  11. 01:25:411 (1,1) - you should make these two sliders to highlight the same polarity shift from earlier that i mentioned here 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) -
  12. 01:28:449 (1,2,1,2) - why are you mapping these as the largest 1-2 jumps, because you continuously grow spacing when it doesnt really fit, the impact from the vocals on 01:29:398 (2,1,2) - are completely ignored because you have exceeded the limit of the editor This is explained in fiery's mod, but I'll explain here as well. Compared to the first kiai, this time there are vocals supporting the jumps while the drums go crazy in the background. The spacing is steadily increasing because the vocals are climaxing. The drums feel as intense as they can possibly be out of the whole kiai section, which led me to map it this way.
  13. 01:29:778 (2) - also another good place to use anti jumps to break up the monotonous movement. What breaks the 'monotonous' movement is the angle change 01:29:402 (2,1,2) - here.
  14. 01:30:158 (1,2,3,4,5) - can u not, this is extremely excessive How come?
All in all this is obviously the toxic pp mapping that I think players and mappers are most against, blatantly being ignorant of the song for the purpose of more 1----2 pp jumps. Please at least try to map to the song while pp mapping, thanks.

Points made that are left unanswered are changed.

omg 100th post on thread!

Thanks for modding!

EDIT: added my reply to fieryrage to this post for anyone not bothered searching pages back.
Last edited by DeletedUser_3638005 , edited 6 times in total.
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
@People who are considering modding this, please read my previous replies, especially at Fiery's and Feb's mods before modding.
Feb
1,027 posts
Joined June 2014
Feb
with align i meant mapping them either the one or the other way, but not mixing them up with different objects.
VINXIS
Featured Artist
3,161 posts
Joined April 2014
VINXIS
i think thbe only problem i have is y u woiuld try to randomly map to different things between 00:30:729 - to 01:07:185 - since it does the opposite of helping the player accurately follow/play to the song and since at every other part ur consistent in wot u map for each section
MaridiuS
878 posts
Joined June 2014
MaridiuS
Okay now that its dqed, hopefully you could apply some more things to further improve and balance out the map. On this post I will talk about aesthetic/structure issues over the whole set, except normal which looks fine. On the second, probably adding more to the discussion of emphasis and rhythm. So basically this is a polish mod, mod that this map doesn't look like it had that much.

[Spark of light]

Generally, if you focus a bit you could make it much better looking with not much effort. Aesthetic issues are apparent in my eyes, and easily fixable. So, I adressed the issue in the last mod, you kinda dismissed it as a blanket mod. But if you saw, those things that I've pointed out were in like 5 seconds, meaning that the map isn't really polished. Its not really a minor issue if its present in most of the map.
00:46:487 (2,3,4,1) - lets say this pattern for example. If you notice, it has 3 visual errors http://i.imgur.com/DZn91kJ.jpg. The closet distances between objects is always different. This leads to untidy aesthetics. Everyone could agree that this look better http://i.imgur.com/t892Mbb.jpg.
00:48:006 (3,4,5,1) - the following pattern also has chaotic placement. http://i.imgur.com/Ajro8vx.jpg simple rotation, and you end up with much better looking pattern.
00:54:651 (4,1) - having slider end touching with slider head is poor looking.
01:12:310 (3,2,3,1) - mentioned this in previous mod, just look at that visual spacing inconsistency http://i.imgur.com/yKWmuIO.jpg
01:14:588 (1,2,3) - this pattern is kinda poorly done, the previous 3 slider pattern always made some kind of a triangle, like a firework, which I thought would be kinda the theme of the patterning. Here it is done completely randomly, without any connection, and failed visual spacings.
01:18:385 (1,3) - being this close breaks the overall spaced structure connections, it sticks out too much. Stakcign and moving these two here http://i.imgur.com/eJqJelk.jpg would be wonderful 01:19:145 (3) - 01:20:474 (3) -
Overally, there are also a few more parts where visual distance is lacking, and taking a look at the map by yourself regarding this issue would surely cause improvement.


[N a s y a 's i n s a n e]
00:14:592 - this is actually stronger and makes sense to be a slider to follow the guitar, as it seems, the white tick slider in its current state ends on a stronger beat 00:14:972 - which is another intense guitar hit.
00:20:478 (2,5) - just please, this placement is..
00:19:339 (3) - this is a strong note, yes, it has a loud guitar to it 00:20:858 (3) - so does this one. The later one is emphasized properly by being given a sharp and and biggest spacing, while the former is completely disregarded
00:22:946 (1,4) - Please, this overlap is really unappealing, its not even overlapped with similar amount of surface as previous overlaps: 00:22:567 (4,1) -
00:31:681 (3,1) - blanket
00:32:060 (1) - having a started like this, usually calls for stuff being based around it, however it is completely disregarded, and doesn't connect with further patterns in any way. Like look how 00:32:630 (2,3,4,5) - has about same visual spacing all around, but nothing connects in such a way to the C slider.
00:35:858 (3,5) - blanket
00:36:807 (1) - such important note gets no spacing emphasis 00:36:617 (5) - this kidna filler circle has even more spacing, no contrast is established.
00:47:250 (5,6) - can't you make em to be identical, having two slightly differnt curved sliders is chaotic
00:48:010 (1,3) - blanket
00:50:288 (1,4) - these two could also have identical slider shape, copy paste rotaion, you know the drill
In the map, there are a lot of mixed overalapping styles, sometimes its a full overlap, sometimes overlapped heavily, sometimes a bit less. Song lasts for one and a half minute, I don't think including this many structure ideas is necessary. 01:03:200 (3,4) - lets take this almost full overlap and then 01:05:858 (1,2,3) - full overlap style. Now that the kiai has started, 01:07:946 (3,4,5) - there are these kind of overlaps, with medium amount, while also included full overlaps randomly 01:14:022 (5,1) - right after having partial overlaps 01:13:453 (2,4) -
01:27:883 (4,5,6) - here its fully overlapped, but the previous is partial overlaps 01:26:174 (3,4,5,6) -
And there are also tons of non overlap based patterns, which is kinda really chaotic, and I don't kinda understand whats going on, keep in mind its a short section and a short map, excess variety, isn't warranted, consistency really matters more imo. Previous sections didn't include much different patterning style, but here on the kiai it changes rapidly.

Slider shape usage also seems a bit too random, as I said, its short and consistency could really matter: 01:08:516 (1,2) - inversed, same shape.
01:10:225 (1,2) - almost the same shape, but you should really make em identical.
01:11:554 (1,2) - different shape
01:19:339 (1,2) - different shape, its way too chaotic. If you want some variety, include also red anchor sliders tbh, rather than really messing wtih these two shapes.

[Insane]
00:13:071 (4,5) - can you make them actually blanket each other lol http://i.imgur.com/etx1ddF.jpg its kinda crude as it is.
00:13:831 (1,2) - ^
00:16:109 (4,5) - same goes for all such patterns, minimal effort for big benefit tbh.
00:19:907 (2) - listen to the guitar, this should be a slider imo
00:22:944 (2) - strongest sound gets 0 emphasis
00:35:286 (1,2,3) - ugh excuse me, but shouldn't (3) really get bigger emphasis
01:18:008 (2,4) - blanket
01:20:666 (1,2,3) - scaling them a bit should work better, this doesn't fit the spaced visual distance in the section.
01:30:160 (1,2,3,4,5) - so this is a buildup but this isn't, please readjust this one: 00:23:324 (1,2,3,4,5) -

[Hard]
00:06:425 (1,2) - pls, this blanket
00:31:299 (2,3,4) - visual spacing
00:34:527 (3,4,5,1) - actually hard seems to have plenty of visual spacing inconsistencies, revisit and readjust please.
00:35:286 (1,2,3) - pretty sure its okay to make a 2 to 3 a jump, therefore, you don't need to sacrifice visuals for emphasis
00:35:856 (3,4) - please this blanekt
00:37:944 (3,1) - this is actually okay, since the big slider kinda feels connected to the previous pattern
00:45:919 (1,2,3) - hey this patterns actually aren't damaged like in insane diff
00:44:970 (3,4) - please, it doesn't look appealing
00:48:957 (1,2) - ugh what, sudden increase in visual distance, and seriously failed blanket attempt
01:20:286 (4,5,1,3) - failed to connect slider end with anything, and the placement on the C slider is just a mess. There are no blankets and connection to pattrns.
01:22:375 (1,2,3) - you know, you can make this as a staight slider to make sense http://i.imgur.com/NGmqOeU.jpg

[smokeman]
Hm this map aesthetics don't look appealing to me, probably subjective, as I disagree on some choices, I have no idea how to improve this style.
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
No blanket/aesthetic mods please. I will take a look at whatever is not connected to aesthetics, since it's a subjective matter, thanks.

@VINXIS, I changed some parts for that whole section, mainly about rhythm. It should be better now.
Feb
1,027 posts
Joined June 2014
Feb
its not a subjective matter if the map looks really gross (not applying necessarily to your map).
hyouri
390 posts
Joined June 2012
hyouri

Xexxar wrote:

All in all this is obviously the toxic pp mapping that I think players and mappers are most against, blatantly being ignorant of the song for the purpose of more 1----2 pp jumps. Please at least try to map to the song while pp mapping, thanks.
this coming from the trash pp mapper himself is beyond ironic

change this on Insane, has weird feel from previous one 00:23:324 (1,2,3,4,5)
MaridiuS
878 posts
Joined June 2014
MaridiuS

Riven wrote:

No blanket/aesthetic mods please. I will take a look at whatever is not connected to aesthetics, since it's a subjective matter, thanks.

@VINXIS, I changed some parts for that whole section, mainly about rhythm. It should be better now.
Wow, it's not really subjective if its inconsistent with the maps structure tbh. I might as well as go and give no shit about aesthetics and say its subjective as an counterargument related to any structure/aesthetic criticism. w/e, also this mod included some, but rarely, emphasis issues and such, and n a s y a should imo really take a look at the mod. I'll post my other mod after naotoshi does I guess.
defiance
503 posts
Joined July 2015
defiance

hyouri wrote:

Xexxar wrote:

All in all this is obviously the toxic pp mapping that I think players and mappers are most against, blatantly being ignorant of the song for the purpose of more 1----2 pp jumps. Please at least try to map to the song while pp mapping, thanks.
this coming from the trash pp mapper himself is beyond ironic

change this on Insane, has weird feel from previous one 00:23:324 (1,2,3,4,5)
The practice of PP mapping is to deliberately not follow the song in order to give it more reward (aka this map.) While (some) Xexxar maps do give a lot of PP, he does at least follow the song..
I Must Decrease
908 posts
Joined June 2013
I Must Decrease

Riven wrote:

[Spark of Light]
  1. 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - the main melody changes here to 1/2 rhythm however nothing in your map reflects this change. Because you're mapping 1--2 jumps to the drumbeat, this sort of seems like an oversight as prioritizing calm drums like this when there is clearly more important sounds going off
  2. 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2) - also you should probably map these as sliders considering that you want to highlight the change in rhythm caused by 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - because then 00:20:094 (1,1,1,1) - is mapped to snares 00:20:283 (2,2,2,2) - and these are mapped to the melody
  3. 00:21:518 - have you thought about making this a triplet, to better reflect the song. I have already answered to all 3 points you made above, in Feb's mod, please refer to that if you're interested in my reply.

    Like I said, what I am doing here is consistently following the rhythm of the drums, (literally they play the same rhythm for 5 seconds) and since there is no variation to them, there will be no variation to the jumps either, hence why they seem like stagnant 1-2s. To account for that, since the drums on (1)s are a bit more intense, when you are coming from (2), they always have higher distance spacing to compensate for that. This is how I interpreted the song the first time I heard it, it's not something I did to deliberately abuse pp. While it's true that in fact the nature of the jumps do that to a certain degree, it also goes without saying that it's the song that what allows for those jumps. I wouldn't randomly place 1-2 jumps where they don't fit. And for me they truly do seem like they fit. Some people have agreed with me on the intensity of the drums while others say that I should just map sliders. I personally think that it depends from person to person, and there is no 'right way' to map it.
Are you unable / unwilling to come to an agreement with us regarding this? There are many experienced mappers and players that are wholesomely trying to explain to you why your patterns may not be the best interpretation possible here. Your goal is to capture the song yet you ignore the main melody and map to bland drums? Every song has these and they're not what makes this part special or the main instrument at play here. You could also lower the spacing on all red tick jumps to better reflect the fact that the white beat is stronger than the red tick beat in most cases.

Please consider these changes as I'm only trying to help you better capture what the song is trying to really highlight here. There are clearly many people who consider your interpretation as wrong besides me.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Well, I gotta agree with Xexxar, as far as I have FC on all mapsets from this song, actual interpretation and placement of 00:19:335 (1,2,1,2) - and so on is just wrong.

I can try to mod this map (and will not avoid this extremely repetitive pattern-less 1-2) unless Riven consider players mods as worthless then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, will let it go without comment since it is not worth it.

This is how I interpreted the song the first time I heard it, it's not something I did to deliberately abuse pp. While it's true that in fact the nature of the jumps do that to a certain degree, it also goes without saying that it's the song that what allows for those jumps. I wouldn't randomly place 1-2 jumps where they don't fit. And for me they truly do seem like they fit. Some people have agreed with me on the intensity of the drums while others say that I should just map sliders. I personally think that it depends from person to person, and there is no 'right way' to map it.
Isn't it better to go for mutual agreement towards controversial part and changing it? It is true that there are people who will love this map because it gives enormous amount of pp for how it is mapped but there are also people (mappers too with all respect) who doesn't want more typical "pp influencing maps". As this may fit the drums, going for front line instruments (piano, synthesizer) could only benefit the map in that case.

Riven wrote:

Made a quite few changes to the 1-2 jump sections by adding sliders and significantly reducing the spacing, but this is as far as can go and do for my part for us to come to a mutual agreement.
For me it is fine like now. GL in ranking it, gib some pepe so I can stay on 20k forever 8-)
Last edited by -Makishima S- , edited 3 times in total.
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
Made a quite few changes to the 1-2 jump sections by adding sliders and significantly reducing the spacing, but this is as far as can go and do for my part for us to come to a mutual agreement.
7ambda
2,560 posts
Joined January 2015
7ambda

Riven wrote:

Made a quite few changes to the 1-2 jump sections by adding sliders and significantly reducing the spacing, but this is as far as can go and do for my part for us to come to a mutual agreement.
👍
MaridiuS
878 posts
Joined June 2014
MaridiuS
Okay, adding up a bit more to the discussion.

01:30:158 (1,2,3,4,5) - Out of all these 5 notes, the only one that doesn't feel equal volume to the others is 01:30:158 - this. The rest sound like they have the same exact volume and that is why I decided to space them equally, and as you can see, you come into this
In insane difficulty, I noticed that these jumps 01:30:160 (1,2,3,4,5) - are a buildup, therefore you kinda dug your own grave, by saying they sound about equal, you're basically forcing a different interpretation on this mapset in order to make simpler, but more spaced jumps.
Also there's this inconsistency issue, with those being a buildup in insane, the previous similar sounding are star shaped without buildup: in insane: 00:23:324 (1,2,3,4,5) -
Also that star pattern also applies to 00:23:324 (1,2,3,4,5) - basically, if there's a change in music, so should the map complement that. This way this gets a buildup, which will be an unique asset to the map, differentiating it from other stuff, when it truly deserves that as the drums volume are building up.

I'm will insist and point out this, which xexxar in his previous mod did. This is the climax of the map, yes this jump right here. 01:29:780 (4) - mathematically it is 3.62x distanced from the previous note, while, this, is 01:29:400 (2) - 4.55x and its clearly visible, and felt from in gameplay. You should need to readjust the pattern a bit in order to give the note I linked the proper emphasis. I think most people can agree on this.

01:27:312 (2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - adding a bit more to the discussion of these jumps. We previous talked about buildup not fitting here, and your argument was vocals getting more intense. That's a bit too farfetched, because the vocals in these jumps have variable rhythm and intensity. As for rhythm here we can hear them on 01:27:881 (2,3,4,1) - being on every 1/2 note, and 01:28:451 (1) - here it starts a long vocal, which doesn't affect the buildup in any way. The drums aren't getting louder, nor there is a pitch in the background. I find this to be a interpretation. To fix this if you agree, but I think we will further discuss, is to place these jumps 01:27:312 (2,3,1,2,3,4) - to have spacing like 01:27:691 (1,2) - . Alternatively you could also give emphasis to the 1/2 sounding vocals, as they're kinda the most noticable and intense, they're blended in and ignored kinda in this state. 01:28:451 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - for this jumps I suggest giving them all 01:28:831 (3,4) - this spacing. And of course giving the biggest emphasis to 01:29:780 (4) - , could go as far as 4.7x for this jump imo.

Basically, even after applying this, star rating will probably not be affected that much, but the map could be more fun and follow the song better IMO xd

edited in more stuff:
00:45:539 (4) - isn't this overemphasized, I don't see a reason to give this the biggest spacing, I suggest Ctrl+G plays well still, and will fit more.
01:07:944 (5) - I believe this should 2 circle to properly follow the vocals, that also happen on the red tick.
01:09:843 (5,1) - kinda (1) is given 0 emphasis when its a downbeat.
01:20:666 (1,2) - you suddenly started giving really noticeably majorly decreased spacing to the circle after slider, even if it contains vocals. 01:21:425 (1,2) - while here, this completely unimportant note has bigger spacing than this semi-intense vocal one: 01:21:046 (2) -
01:24:084 (2) - this other than having a vocal it also has this guitar sound on it, and possible kick, but I'm unsure. It still needs more spacing, I don't understand why did you give 0 spacing to those notes in this section.
DeletedUser_3638005
Topic Starter
DeletedUser_3638005
MaridiuS
Okay, adding up a bit more to the discussion.

01:30:158 (1,2,3,4,5) - Out of all these 5 notes, the only one that doesn't feel equal volume to the others is 01:30:158 - this. The rest sound like they have the same exact volume and that is why I decided to space them equally, and as you can see, you come into this
In insane difficulty, I noticed that these jumps 01:30:160 (1,2,3,4,5) - are a buildup, therefore you kinda dug your own grave, by saying they sound about equal, you're basically forcing a different interpretation on this mapset in order to make simpler, but more spaced jumps. I still stand by my point and hear them as equal sounds, so don't tell me I dug my own grave, and don't go making assumptions that I used that spacing on Spark of Light just to make 'simpler and more spaced jumps'. The spacing on Insane has been adjusted accordingly.

Also there's this inconsistency issue, with those being a buildup in insane, the previous similar sounding are star shaped without buildup: in insane: 00:23:324 (1,2,3,4,5) -
Also that star pattern also applies to 00:23:324 (1,2,3,4,5) - basically, if there's a change in music, so should the map complement that. This way this gets a buildup, which will be an unique asset to the map, differentiating it from other stuff, when it truly deserves that as the drums volume are building up.

I'm will insist and point out this, which xexxar in his previous mod did. This is the climax of the map, yes this jump right here. Who says that?
You?

01:29:780 (4) - mathematically it is 3.62x distanced from the previous note, while, this, is 01:29:400 (2) - 4.55x and its clearly visible, and felt from in gameplay. You should need to readjust the pattern a bit in order to give the note I linked the proper emphasis. I think most people can agree on this. Maths and distance spacing isn't the only thing that matters in mapping to emphasize on something correctly. I have already said this before, but apparently you haven't read my previous replies to other mods. The change of angle is what makes up the 'lesser spacing'.

01:27:312 (2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - adding a bit more to the discussion of these jumps. We previous talked about buildup not fitting here, and your argument was vocals getting more intense. That's a bit too farfetched, because the vocals in these jumps have variable rhythm and intensity. As for rhythm here we can hear them on 01:27:881 (2,3,4,1) - being on every 1/2 note, and 01:28:451 (1) - here it starts a long vocal, which doesn't affect the buildup in any way. Just because there aren't vocals on every 1/2 beat it doesn't mean that it's not getting more intense. Similar to 01:17:628 - this, where there are no vocals on every 1/2 beat, you can clearly tell it's the climax of the first kiai. It's the continuous drawn out vocal that makes it more and more intense. I have ALREADY reduced the spacing of those jumps, and I really hope that that you are looking at the latest pending version. The drums aren't getting louder, nor there is a pitch in the background. I find this to be a interpretation. To fix this if you agree, but I think we will further discuss, is to place these jumps 01:27:312 (2,3,1,2,3,4) - to have spacing like 01:27:691 (1,2) - . Alternatively you could also give emphasis to the 1/2 sounding vocals, as they're kinda the most noticable and intense, they're blended in and ignored kinda in this state. 01:28:451 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - for this jumps I suggest giving them all 01:28:831 (3,4) - this spacing. And of course giving the biggest emphasis to 01:29:780 (4) - , could go as far as 4.7x for this jump imo. Disregarding this whole explaining of what spacing my jumps should have, as I gave you my reasoning above.

Basically, even after applying this, star rating will probably not be affected that much, but the map could be more fun and follow the song better IMO xd

edited in more stuff:
00:45:539 (4) - isn't this overemphasized, I don't see a reason to give this the biggest spacing, I suggest Ctrl+G plays well still, and will fit more. No one follows this slider to the end, think of it as 3/4 or a bit less of it's current length, so no I don't think it's too much. [/color]
01:07:944 (5) - I believe this should 2 circle to properly follow the vocals, that also happen on the red tick. No.
01:09:843 (5,1) - kinda (1) is given 0 emphasis when its a downbeat.
01:20:666 (1,2) - you suddenly started giving really noticeably majorly decreased spacing to the circle after slider, even if it contains vocals. 01:21:425 (1,2) - while here, this completely unimportant note has bigger spacing than this semi-intense vocal one: 01:21:046 (2) -
01:24:084 (2) - this other than having a vocal it also has this guitar sound on it, and possible kick, but I'm unsure. It still needs more spacing, I don't understand why did you give 0 spacing to those notes in this section. 01:24:274 - This strong ass white beat is what I want to focus here, not the almost inaudible kick on the red tick.
MaridiuS
878 posts
Joined June 2014
MaridiuS

Riven wrote:

MaridiuS
I'm will insist and point out this, which xexxar in his previous mod did. This is the climax of the map, yes this jump right here. Who says that?
You? It has the strongest guitar hit, finish, and vocals all in one note, so yea, nothing can compare to that

01:29:780 (4) - mathematically it is 3.62x distanced from the previous note, while, this, is 01:29:400 (2) - 4.55x and its clearly visible, and felt from in gameplay. You should need to readjust the pattern a bit in order to give the note I linked the proper emphasis. I think most people can agree on this. Maths and distance spacing isn't the only thing that matters in mapping to emphasize on something correctly. I have already said this before, but apparently you haven't read my previous replies to other mods. The change of angle is what makes up the 'lesser spacing'. change of angle is a valid argument, but you see, even if it changes, it doesn't add much to the difficulty because it changes in a comfortable way out of the previous pattern. If you for example ctrl+g the slider which I pointed out, it will be more difficult to compensate for its lower spacing.


01:24:084 (2) - this other than having a vocal it also has this guitar sound on it, and possible kick, but I'm unsure. It still needs more spacing, I don't understand why did you give 0 spacing to those notes in this section. 01:24:274 - This strong ass white beat is what I want to focus here, not the almost inaudible kick on the red tick. its placing after a slider is still inconsistent with the section tbh, it's the only circle located right after slider end in the kiai sections
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
100 / 184