Auto-Converts a Discussion

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Topic Starter
Edgar_Figaro
So I've been thinking about Taiko and auto-converts and am wanting to see how the community feels about them. Overall the pros & cons of having auto-converts in the game and ranked. Here are some of my thoughts

Pros:
  • More maps to play
    Let's people try Taiko out without needing to download taiko specific
    Speed training


Cons:
  • Poor quality (most would be unrankable if made as Taiko)
    Dont teach patterns or other Taiko fundamentals


If people have things they want to add to either category I can edit this post and add them. Just wanted to hear people's thoughts on this matter.
numbermaniac
It's good practice for sliders, especially in easier difficulties, which have loads of them.
capeseverywhere
Depends on what converts you're playing. I think it's the inconsistency the turns most taiko players away, but I like the challenge in them. However, some of the 'challenge' comes from dumb things like 1/8 that's way too fast to hit with two fingers or unreadable SV changes.

In general, I think this is what people dislike about them the most
1. 1/8. As long as they're around 20 NPS or less, they're possible to hit (unless you play DDKK, then rip), but they're usually much faster than that. The 1/8 in Kokou no Sousei's converts are over 30 NPS, for example.
2. Slider velocity. There's a lot of songs where the slider velocity is way too high for any taiko player to possibly read without playing a lot of high SV converts (or maybe playing a ton of HR). Even if it's not fast, there are plenty of maps with constantly changing SV that make it impossible to read (see technonationalism). Sometimes it can be fun to try to learn it as a gimmick map or something similar, but most of the time it's annoying. Play enough converts and you get used to it, but normal taiko maps almost never do stuff like this, so it's a weird change to learn.
3. Weird/boring patterns. The patterns in converts aren't nearly as fun or interesting as normal taiko maps. They don't make much sense when they get tricky, either.
4. High OD. Some maps have it. Personally I don't mind, but I think it's gonna throw off a lot of taiko players, especially if there's any of the above problems in it. And if you're playing older maps... oh boy.

There's probably some other stuff, but that's all I can remember for now.

I still like playing them because they're unique and challenging in different ways from normal taiko maps, and they can be fun to mess around with. There's a lot more variety in them compared to taiko maps, too. But a lot of the time, they're dumb. Plus most maps don't have taiko maps, so it gives you a way to play the song.
Savoiyare
Depends on the converts, but there are a lot of them very fun to play
i remember started playing Taiko thanks to wzxxzw amazing scores
OnosakiHito
As for the mapping aspect, people who play converts and later convert to Taiko mapping have a poor idea of how Taiko Mapping is actually working since they had not enough proper examples. Additionally, you are having a hard time getting a hang of the actual taiko mapping since you are used to converts. Some of the older mappers (me as well) had this problem in the past being influenced a lot by converts with patterns which are in taiko normaly not in use.
Topic Starter
Edgar_Figaro

OnosakiHito wrote:

As for the mapping aspect, people who play converts and later convert to Taiko mapping have a poor idea of how Taiko Mapping is actually working since they had not enough proper examples. Additionally, you are having a hard time getting a hang of the actual taiko mapping since you are used to converts. Some of the older mappers (me as well) had this problem in the past being influenced a lot by converts with patterns which are in taiko normaly not in use.
I honestly hadn't thought of that one. Usually when people refer to "old mapping styles" it's in regards to Osu standard. I don't think I realized that the mapping styles in Taiko had changed that drastically.
Swerro
What do people think about making autoconverts in taiko unranked? What would the cons be of that?

(also take in mind what you would think if autoconverts wouldve been unranked from the very beginning of osu)

Edit: Leaderboards would obviously still exist, it's just that the maps wouldn't give performance points
roufou
Some people are strongly against it and some are strongly for it, I don't think an agreement could be made nor do I think it'd actually happen.
Swerro
Just wondering: what arguments could one use to unrank autoconverts, vs what one could argue to have them stay ranked?
roufou
People could write about this for ages but I'll keep it short and sweet.

Unrank: converts are absolute garbage not real taiko maps and don't give the challenges of a real taiko map, and are just unhealthy to the pp system.
Rank: removing converts limit player options for types of map to play and it's pointless after all this time.

Might not seem too convincing cause I don't actually care about making a point but I decided to give the short gist of it.
OnosakiHito

Swerro wrote:

Just wondering: what arguments could one use to unrank autoconverts, vs what one could argue to have them stay ranked?
I think I mentioned this somewhere before, but converts are a relic of the past when there were no taiko difficulties and Taiko just an additional Mod like Hidden or HardRock nowadays is. Converts are not really a part of this game and were just "the end justifies the means". However, converts could have been removed since years already but weren't, as it impacts the ranking process: Removing coverts bears the consequence of forcing GD-Mapper making a full spread since there wouldn't be a lower converted difficulty anymore which would replace the missing Futsuu. Hence, M+O spreads wouldn't be anymore possible and requiere a lower difficulty.

Considering that this would make it harder to get taiko maps ranked(danger of uneven spread becomimg bigger; amount of GDs exceeds amount of set owener's diffs), it didn't appear to be feasible doing such move as Taiko was in a miserable state when it was about the amount of ranked beatmaps, so stuff stayed untouched.

That means, it is very possible that in the future converts might be removed. That's also the reason why I always tell people to stop argue about converts since it is rather wasted time. Especially farming these.
Gezoda

OnosakiHito wrote:

That means, it is very possible that in the future converts might be removed.
not in the foreseeable future i have to say. converts are here because we'd kill the mode by removing them, once taiko gets stable enough to justify the removal (by stable i mean ACTUALLY stable like it can sustain itself well enough, which is very far from being the case right now due to various reasons) it will happen. taht's all.
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