A word about insufferable elitism within the osu!-community

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winber1

N0thingSpecial wrote:

M3ATL0V3R you're solo carrying this thread to 10 pages
or maybe he's solo-throwing it
Sayorie
Finally done with this piece of worthless thread. Crap, Railey2, when you started making threads like "The reason why tablet is (probably) better than mouse." and <and some other posts>, I actually started getting my hopes up that you were finally going to break out of your terrible "The reason you can (probably) never become a pro at osu" stage and start cranking out truly admirable posts. Even though some of your recent posts raised a red flag or two, I still had high hopes. And then this self-indulgent pretentious abomination gets vomitted onto G&R. This is not only your worst thread, but possibly the worst thread I have ever seen. Why? Others were bad as satire, ignorance, age, or inexperience. You qualify for none of these categories, you have no excuse.
Believe me, I have nothing against insight, be it criticism, haphazard analyses, or speculative writing. And I have no problem with someone in the osu community bringing out a healthy discussion as a flagship of broadening horizons. What I do have a problem with is that you, the person bringing it, have absolutely no respect for the community or its structure. At the slightest hint of frustration or annoyance, you are more than happy to start disregarding the the mantra of "play more" and just throwing ugly and pointless posts where you just criticize the topic or concept to anything you feel like, no matter how awful the end thread becomes.
This vulgar excuse for a thread reeks of every stupid and arrogant Raileyism the community has had to bear witness to: Extreme fallacies with no logical reasoning, sky high cynicism at random times, ideas that just decide to jump to some random irrelevant topic with no warning, buckshot spread theory with no cohesive structure, giving examples that space out to absurd degrees, rampant abuse of "please don't get me wrong" to cover up lazy writing, scientific hodgepodge that clearly are just cases of Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V abuse, and worst of all, using online disinhibition as your own little shield to justify every little moment of "I can write this because fuck you, you don't know me in real life" you can stuff in your pathetic and self-subservient posts.
Stop using this board as canvases for your abhorrent "insight", stop using your cult of personality to force your offensive ideas on others, and stop thinking that everyone is not good just because we don't have the talent to supplement our hard work.
M3ATL0V3R

N0thingSpecial wrote:

M3ATL0V3R you're solo carrying this thread to 10 pages

Xyrus wrote:

Don't give up!
-Makishima S-
Fuck this drama thread like every other recent railey whining.
If even pro player come and mix railey with stinky shit, it must mean something. More, as far as i lurk in Wilchq twitch channel since he started streaming, he is very, i mean very nice person, something really pissed him in this thread.

M3ATL0V3R you have balls of steel to even bathe in this shit, i admire you.
M3ATL0V3R

[Taiga] wrote:

If even pro player come and mix railey with stinky shit, it must mean something. More, as far as i lurk in Wilchq twitch channel since he started streaming, he is very, i mean very nice person, something really pissed him in this thread.
Thats not wilchq its AmaiHachimitsu who is married to wilchq.
-Makishima S-

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

[Taiga] wrote:

If even pro player come and mix railey with stinky shit, it must mean something. More, as far as i lurk in Wilchq twitch channel since he started streaming, he is very, i mean very nice person, something really pissed him in this thread.
Thats not wilchq its AmaiHachimitsu who is married to wilchq.
Oh right, yet Amai is also nice guy, didn't heared from him to be rude and toxic towards other people. One thing what amaze me here about polish community is that top rank elite players from poland are very nice people, unlike other games like lol / csgo where greater amount of top polish players are toxic cunts who waste oxygene.

At the end this topic like every other by Railey got proven to be horseshit, imo just move on and let it die.

Peace, yo!
I Give Up
i like map play all map
Cookiedipp
please enjoy game
gooder101
I don't really know what's the problem,but at one point every map that people want to be "loved" will achieve this status so there is no reason to complain,right?
winber1
it's time to stop existing
N0thingSpecial

winber1 wrote:

it's time to stop existing
Was there ever a good time to exist?
winber1

N0thingSpecial wrote:

winber1 wrote:

it's time to stop existing
Was there ever a good time to exist?
back when the 3rd dimension didn't exist yet
repr1se

N0thingSpecial wrote:

winber1 wrote:

it's time to stop existing
Was there ever a good time to exist?
Before mankind
Topic Starter
Railey2

Endaris wrote:

Agreeing on points is vital part of a discussion, so don't skip it.
I do recall the old OP of the feature request being much shorter indeed. Not going to search that up but I guess we can call the second part of my previous post void.
Iirc the old title clearly targetted gimmicky maps though. It had the keyword "gimmicky" in its title at least.

What you're criticising in this thread is the reaction of players on what the mysterious preselector-dude aka Ephemeral+pals made out of that idea.
As I mentioned at the start of my second post:
There is no particular value in loving those maps when there's nothing special about them. If they're neither special nor good then the entire section holds no particular value. It's just a section of maps that randomly happen to have a scoreboard.
I think a lot of the salt being spread roots in the idea of having a category for gimmicky maps being compromised by the preselector and by holding community votes.
Sure, it's what the preselector-dudes make out of it but I think it's short-sighted to call it insufferable elitism if people like BD just wanted that section to highlight and encourage unrankable quality mapping as probably intended with the initial feature request. The idea was just compromised and even though the reaction is certainly not mature I think someone else is to blame - for compromising the idea while ignoring the arguments against it.
There was no quarrel just after the maps have been selected, shit only went down when the top player almost didn't get their way. That is when the hatred started to flourish. Similarly, look of the amount of people that are in favor of voting the Mulholland map in, which is basically a testament for the position that it is in fact not about quality, but only popularity.

Most peoples anger wasn't fueled by disagreement with the system (although the hate might as well have extended to that later), but by their petty disagreement with how (mostly) lower ranked players cast their votes. This is the elitist part, in a community-driven feature where enjoyment of the maps played should be the only parameter, your rank shouldn't matter. And yet people felt the need to bolster themselves up using arguments such as experience, which is obviously affiliated with rank. Just look at Wilchq's post, it is very clear where he is coming from. Blatant disrespect, nothing else. Note how the hate is only flowing in the original voting thread after graces of heaven tumbles down to place 5. Egoistic children that can't stand the thought of not getting their way and feel it's appropriate to take that out on other people, even though these other people have a right to enjoy the game just as much as they do.


sorry for not responding for a while, but here we are.
Endaris
^ Not Wilchq though, it was Amai.

I see your point that concerns should have been raised once the first not-community-selected set came out. While I'm not familiar with all maps in that batch I'm pretty sure that it contains maps that don't feature outstanding content as well just like the much critized Red Like Roses.
Taking Big Money, wew, there are entire sections that are stupid 1/2 symmetric fullscreenjumps that are about as good as some parts in Red Like Roses I suppose.
First step in forcing a push to maps of higher quality in the loved section would be to move your own loved maps that you don't consider good enough to the graveyard and make a public statement on why you don't think they belong there.
And let's be honest, if BD wasn't the 7* drama mapper of 2012 and if Big Money wasn't the April's fool thing back then, it would be very unlikely to see that map in the loved section either.

I wouldn't call that straight up elitism though, rather a lack of self-reflection. Because when people think of elite-mappers they would probably not think of BD but rather of lfj, RLC, fanzhen, Lan Wings and the likes. BD is an attentionwhore after all, he knows that and he should know better.
I think it is very stupid and generalising to call insufferable elitism when a lot of mappers didn't give such lame statements as quoted in your OP. Those are 3 mappers but is that representative of our community? I don't think so.

Ultimately it comes down to what CXu said~
Mismagius
uhm..
Eraser
lol
winber1

Eraser wrote:

lol
Topic Starter
Railey2

Endaris wrote:

I wouldn't call that straight up elitism though, rather a lack of self-reflection. Because when people think of elite-mappers they would probably not think of BD but rather of lfj, RLC, fanzhen, Lan Wings and the likes. BD is an attentionwhore after all, he knows that and he should know better.
I think it is very stupid and generalising to call insufferable elitism when a lot of mappers didn't give such lame statements as quoted in your OP. Those are 3 mappers but is that representative of our community? I don't think so.
ah damn, it was Amai after all not wilchq. Sorry about that, the namechanges get really confusing sometimes.

I don't think I claimed anywhere that they represent the community. As far as I'm concerned the people I'm accusing don't even represent a part of the community (such as mappers or high ranked players). Albeit their attitude seems to be more common among high ranked players. I also don't know if fieryrage or Write even make maps, and I surely didn't pick them out because of who they are. I just picked them because their quotes were the most extreme examples. There just happened to be a pattern in that they were all pretty high of rank.
This is really confusing to me though, did I even mention mappers in this thread?
Endaris
Well, since all three quotes are directly directed at poor quality maps being loved there is an implication that it should be judged by people who have a good idea of what quality is -> mappers and modders.
When there are huges changes like this one there will always be some sort of drama with controversial opinions.
If you simply wanted to criticise these individual replies then you should have created an entirely different thread instead of doing this
make this thread an epic smackdown where I pick apart the elitist entitlement, blatant disdain for the tastes of lower ranked players, and generally disgusting attitude that came with the quotes.
You're doing a fuckload of interpretation there. There are many questions that have to be asked and "How many people voted that even knew all of the maps?" or "How long was the average time that was used for the mapevaluation and voting decision?" are probably the ones that are the main reason behind the digust of the quoted players regarding the voting's outcome.
The generalisation of "blatant disdain for the tastes of lower ranked players" was done by you because I can't read anything like that in the quotes by BD and Write. They criticise the voting behaviour of the participants which is assumingly unreflected and does not have much to do with the maps at all.
They think that the amount of people who knew the map in the first place (popularity) and whether they liked the song or not (mapunrelated reason) had a bigger impact on the votes than reflected opinions that the voters would actually be able to defend in a discussion.

Personally I'm surprised that graces of heaven even made it though.
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