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TSUNKU - Shugyou Ska [Taiko]

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Topic Starter
Weber
talked with jon/stefan made some slight rhythm changes

updated
Stefan
IRC Log for reference (Discord)
Frog - heute um 05:06 Uhr
alright so, personally im not happy with how the rhythm is in the kantan, usage of 3/1 gaps leads to a fairly awkward rhythm, as well as various sounds that im fairly confident he attempted to map to, are actually on red ticks, and therefore not really appropriate for a kantan
I made a more precise post about this on the forum, and I'd like you to judge whether my suggestions/alternatives would be appropriate(bearbeitet)
i kinda regret not just making the difficulty myself in the first place but im willing to try and work with jon who wanted to make the diff in the first place to get it ranked rather than just scrapping his and doing my own
at least its a kantan so it wouldn't actually take much time to change
FlyingSlowpoke - heute um 18:12 Uhr
About the 3/1 rhythm: While I understand your concerns it sounds weird I I find we need something in this way.
if we take both, Futsuu and Kantan and see what both difficulty offers for their level
then we can say that Kantan offers the point of having rhythm changes - means to move from 1/1 to 3/1 instead of 2/1 and back to 1/1.
Futsuu for example provides the continous mapping, happens with all these five-let combos
Frog - heute um 18:14 Uhr
right
FlyingSlowpoke - heute um 18:14 Uhr
https://derpovic.s-ul.eu/d7Egv1A3.png the idea you've suggested

I don't know.. but I feel it sounds too plain
the other option to have something to follow in the song would be to move (2) at 00:11:519 - , that is the red tick next to the timestamp (2) currently is
while I find 1/2 is here at this point not necessary, I suggested to hold the note at 00:11:361 -
Frog - heute um 18:16 Uhr
hm
i think i just found a potential solution
to keep it interesting
FlyingSlowpoke - heute um 18:16 Uhr
OKay.
Frog - heute um 18:17 Uhr
check it
00:14:218 -
delete this note
00:13:583 - bring this note over to 00:13:900 -
00:14:853 - add a note here
the reason i think the 3/1 gaps sound awkward is because of the presence of 2/1 right after, but if we utilize it more it should sound better
FlyingSlowpoke - heute um 18:27 Uhr
Well, it's harder
But feels okay.
Frog - heute um 18:28 Uhr
alright now that we've got that sorted
adding notes to 00:19:932 - and 00:39:297 - should be fine right?
actually one more thing as well
00:36:757 - i think this note is a little much, i think it could do without, what do you think
btw jon said i can apply all of these for him thats why im not going through it with him r/n
FlyingSlowpoke - heute um 18:38 Uhr
Well
the note would be fine if it's single-colour
adding notes to 00:19:932 - and 00:39:297 - should be fine right?
I disagree, we should have some bigger breaks and avoid to connect too much with each other.
Frog - heute um 18:41 Uhr
personally i think 5/1 gap is a little overkill for 00:38:345 -
but if you think its fine then whatev
alright i'll apply these and update

[Kantan, again]
00:08:503 (10) - You really don't want to move this like said the last time? Optional, we could change 00:09:138 (11) - to K and (10) to d, so we have this in the end: https://derpovic.s-ul.eu/uFjMoioL.png Pitch of 00:09:138 (11) - is slightly higher than 00:10:408 (1) - , dD (or kK) may not be a beginner-friendly (or logical) pattern but goes very with the music. Repeat this for 00:41:519 (26,27) - .
00:18:027 (10) - What about to change the note to d? I feel the switch of k to d is good to have. Also 00:51:043 (10) - .
00:36:757 (19) - like mentioned, this is okay if you change it to a single-colour oo part. I meant, you should do it anyways, I consider that as something easier. also 01:09:773 (9) - and 01:19:932 (22) - .
00:39:932 (23) - Since the begin of the map has been changed to k d k .. you should keep this consistent here. Change the note to k.
01:23:424 (27,28) - Wouldn't it make more sense to be consistent with 01:12:630 (13,14,15) - than with 00:37:075 (20,21,22) - ? Since 01:12:630 (13,14,15) - and 01:22:788 (26,27,28) - shares the same loop I'd go with d d K.

[Inner Oni (BECAUSE I HAVEN'T MOD IT YET)]
00:36:599 (215,216,217,218) - I think I even mentioned this last time, didn't I? Anyways, I still believe that dKdD (or dKdK) sounds better and actual correct to the music, if you compare it with 00:35:805 (211,212,213,214) - .
01:09:615 (415,416,417,418) - bla
01:19:774 (474,475,476,477) - bla bla
Topic Starter
Weber
all applied etc etc
Stefan
OzzyOzrock
Nah, sorry. This is a veto.

[General]
  1. I get it. The song basically loops. But for the first half of the map to be identical to the second half note for note is embarrassing. The fact that it's bubbled even more. Yet, I'm hardly surprised.
  2. Anyways, it's often very good practice to map the second loop of a song at least slightly different to make things interesting, but it is an absolute must for recurrences of the chorus (or in this case the kiai) so that what is the true climax of the song isn't reduced to the same emphasis as the first kiai.
  3. Slightly more complex patterns, simple note additions, the same density but with different, equally nice sounding patterns, literally any difference helps make repetitions in songs not be as boring as they'd otherwise be.
[Ayyri's Inner Oni]
  1. 00:09:456 (43,44,45) - d d K? Just to make it more musically accurate.Every occurrence.
  2. 00:10:567 - d? So as to not rob emphasis from the upcoming k notes.
  3. 00:11:202 - It would not hurt at all to see you not use kdk ever this whole map. Not only does ddk kdk k play poorly as the player has to weirdly hit the same key a lot, but kdk is such a clunky pattern that implies more emphasis than the song actually has, similar to how one finds specific places where patterns like dkd and dkk fit more. In this case, I wouldn’t even use a triplet, since not much truly goes on.
    :arrow: Adding to that, using k for every trumpet note is quirky, but very limiting. Making notes like
    00:11:361 (54) - 00:14:058 (72) - 00:16:598 (88) - All give way more emphasis to the actual melody instead if “it’s trumpet so k”. Consider both these points for the rest of the map.
  4. 00:15:329 (79) - d? Keeping this note different from 00:15:488 - gives it way more emphasis.
  5. 00:17:472 - Shouldn’t there be a triplet here to be consistent with 00:12:392 - ? Maybe a kkd since the pitch is rising this time.
  6. 00:19:456 (105,106,107,108) - and 00:20:249 (112) - all d? I see you’re mapping to the claps, giving the Ks emphasis is much more impactful, while also lowering the amount of ddk here.
  7. 00:22:154 - If this part is more intense due to the instrument change, why is 00:23:583 - less intense? There’s definitely some structure revamp to consider, where you should make up your mind about which parts should have more notes instead of going about it randomly.
  8. 00:25:805 (150,151,152,153) - So these are the more intense sounds right? They need to stand out compared to the K before it. Whether it be ignoring the cymbal crash and mapping 00:25:646 (149) - as k or making 00:25:805 (150,151,152,153) - all D to give them the same identity, both work. Applies to every occurrence. If the latter, 00:27:710 (160,161,162) - should be kkk.
  9. 00:28:503 - k k d d k d? I don’t get the crazy drop in density. This pattern claps and leads in nicely.
  10. 00:30:091 (171,172,173,174,175,176,177) - Switching from mapping this as big notes to a stream is iffy, but I’ll take it as long as you make 00:30:488 (176) - k .
  11. 00:30:726 - I’ll accept how you mapped this if you make it follow the melody a bit better, a bit like this:

    The kat at the very end is NOT a big note, as it doesn’t have any special emphasis unlike the huge sounding drum hits.
  12. 00:36:916 (216) - k to fit the pitch raise? I don’t like how lightly mapped this is because of the big notes but I get the idea.

    And then it loops, which is where your remapping starts. Don’t overdo it THAT much, but it should NOT be hard to think of other ways to either spice it up or map it differently.
[Oni]
  1. 00:15:488 (46) - Don’t really need a finisher here, nothing calls for it.
  2. 00:25:646 - Similar to Ayyri’s diff, I think there’s a nicer way to give the 00:25:805 (99,100,101,102) - notes more emphasis.
  3. 00:30:249 (118,119) - Though it’s Oni, a break from removing these notes wouldn’t be that bad. 00:29:932 - can have a don to make up for it if it matters to you. Also applies to kiai #2.
  4. 01:18:980 - Chose to ignore the usual triplets here?

    You can also go ahead and modify some stuff in the loop. Even things like the note at 00:58:503 - are good. Not a huge change, but it’s a difference that the player has to look out for. Oni has a lot of freedom in this sense.
[Muzukashii]
  1. 00:08:821 (8,9) - Delete these notes as a break. It’s important to limit disproportionately long strings of notes.
  2. 00:26:123 (74,79) - k for both of these? Should bundle them up.
  3. 00:30:091 (88,89,90) - kkk? Just to differentiate it from the ddk in kiai. Then the same at 01:03:107 (88,89,90) - for consistency’s sake.
  4. 00:38:662 (117) - Delete this as another break.

    I’m glad kiai gets harder to vary, but it creates a giant gap with Futsuu than needs to be taken care of. Additionally, you need a couple more breaks in it too.
[Futsuu]
  1. 00:11:996 (8) - d? Lot’s to do besides k d k d k.
  2. 00:20:884 (12) - What is this note for?
  3. 00:31:361 - You can add a note here, there’s no reason to make islands like these.
  4. 01:08:980 - No 1/2 note here? The others have it. If not (which I think I prefer), then the other ones should drop it too.

    As the song loops, you can change the notes in some of your 5plets.
[Kantan]
  1. 00:05:646 - What the heck, I wanted to suggest that when these beep boops kick in that the mapping could change and the diff that does it just had to be Jon’s. Nice!
    Ever thought of something like this? Since it seems you’re kinda scared of using 1/2 (which you prooobably should)
  2. 01:22:788 (26,27,28) - You mapped this pretty easy compared to the k kkd etc. stuff you’d map in other occurrences. I’m not sure why exactly.

    This diff could also easily vary some doubles and other patterns as well.
Overall, the spread isn’t bad; but parts like second kiai neglect it. I’ve stated my problems and hope you can find another reliable mod before calling me back.
Topic Starter
Weber

OzzyOzrock wrote:

Nah, sorry. This is a veto.

[Oni]
  1. 00:15:488 (46) - Don’t really need a finisher here, nothing calls for it.
  2. 00:25:646 - Similar to Ayyri’s diff, I think there’s a nicer way to give the 00:25:805 (99,100,101,102) - notes more emphasis.
  3. 00:30:249 (118,119) - Though it’s Oni, a break from removing these notes wouldn’t be that bad. 00:29:932 - can have a don to make up for it if it matters to you. Also applies to kiai #2. Again, like in the muzu, I think the clap sound in the music here needs to be mapped to, so i've kept it in,
    and removed the other.
  4. 01:18:980 - Chose to ignore the usual triplets here? sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit my b

    You can also go ahead and modify some stuff in the loop. Even things like the note at 00:58:503 - are good. Not a huge change, but it’s a difference that the player has to look out for. Oni has a lot of freedom in this sense.
[Muzukashii]
  1. 00:08:821 (8,9) - Delete these notes as a break. It’s important to limit disproportionately long strings of notes. I think the clap sound is pretty important to map to here, so i'll be keeping (8) in.
  2. 00:26:123 (74,79) - k for both of these? Should bundle them up.
  3. 00:30:091 (88,89,90) - kkk? Just to differentiate it from the ddk in kiai. Then the same at 01:03:107 (88,89,90) - for consistency’s sake.
  4. 00:38:662 (117) - Delete this as another break.

    I’m glad kiai gets harder to vary, but it creates a giant gap with Futsuu than needs to be taken care of. Additionally, you need a couple more breaks in it too. Hopefully I've accomplished this adequately by thinning out some of the doubles/triples that may not be all too necessary.
[Futsuu]
  1. 00:11:996 (8) - d? Lot’s to do besides k d k d k.
  2. 00:20:884 (12) - What is this note for? There is a consistent clapping sound in the music every 2 bars, starting on this note (00:20:884 (12,13,14,16,18,19,20) -) Also, removing this would leave an awkward 3/1 gap between notes. I'm pretty adamant in the logic of this note.
  3. 00:31:361 - You can add a note here, there’s no reason to make islands like these.
  4. 01:08:980 - No 1/2 note here? The others have it. If not (which I think I prefer), then the other ones should drop it too.

    As the song loops, you can change the notes in some of your 5plets.
[Kantan]
  1. 00:05:646 - What the heck, I wanted to suggest that when these beep boops kick in that the mapping could change and the diff that does it just had to be Jon’s. Nice!
    Ever thought of something like this? Since it seems you’re kinda scared of using 1/2 (which you prooobably should)
  2. 01:22:788 (26,27,28) - You mapped this pretty easy compared to the k kkd etc. stuff you’d map in other occurrences. I’m not sure why exactly.

    This diff could also easily vary some doubles and other patterns as well.
Overall, the spread isn’t bad; but parts like second kiai neglect it. I’ve stated my problems and hope you can find another reliable mod before calling me back.
Alright, variances have been added to all diffs, and hopefully I haven't missed anything. Anything without a comment was accepted. Will keep looking once Ayyri sends me her update.
Jonarwhal

OzzyOzrock wrote:

Nah, sorry. This is a veto.

[Kantan]
  1. 00:05:646 - What the heck, I wanted to suggest that when these beep boops kick in that the mapping could change and the diff that does it just had to be Jon’s. Nice! owo thanks
    Ever thought of something like this? Since it seems you’re kinda scared of using 1/2 (which you prooobably should) fixed~
  2. 01:22:788 (26,27,28) - You mapped this pretty easy compared to the k kkd etc. stuff you’d map in other occurrences. I’m not sure why exactly. fixed~ (I think)

    This diff could also easily vary some doubles and other patterns as well. Fixed~
Overall, the spread isn’t bad; but parts like second kiai neglect it. I’ve stated my problems and hope you can find another reliable mod before calling me back.
thanks for modding~
https://puu.sh/vXsu7/5abdb9875a.osu
tasuke912
sorry, i kept you waiting.
[ General]
  1. Fix metadata in Kantan
[ Kantan]
  1. lacking power, Kiai times could have more triplets.
  2. 00:32:313 -, 00:34:853 - Try adding dons.
  3. 01:05:012 (4,7) - 01:15:170 (16,17) - 01:17:709 (19,20) - could have triplets as well.
[ Futsuu]
  1. 00:08:503 (3,4,1) - I recommend kdk here in order to follow the clap and melody.
  2. 00:25:964 (23,24) - 00:27:234 (26,27) - I'd like to make triplet here rather than 00:27:869 (28,29,30) - to follow the strong sound.
  3. 00:58:345 (21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30) - ^
  4. 01:04:376 - As first kiai time has a note at the time, this point should not be empty. 01:06:916 - here too.
  5. 01:14:535 -, 01:17:075 ^
[ Muzukashii]
  1. 00:16:440 (36) - 00:49:456 (37) -Try moving those notes to 1/2 left. they will fit to the melody well.
[ Oni]
  1. 00:16:599 (53,54,55,56,57,58) - 00:49:615 (53,54,55,56,57,58) - These parts need more notes in order to keep appropriate density. e.g.:
[ Inner Oni]
  1. Check Ozzy's mod first
I guess I can qualify after the mapset gets rebubble. Good luck!
Topic Starter
Weber
thank you for modding tasuke, i really appreciate it, sorry it's taken so long to get back to this

i'll be gone for the next week or 2, when I come back i'll apply your mods so we can get this show on the road

if ayyri doesn't get around to applying the mods for her difficulty i'll have to put it in the description instead, but that's up to her
Topic Starter
Weber
Ayyri applied the changes from ozzy's mod, updated
Topic Starter
Weber
Applied all changes from Tasuke's mod, really helpful ;w;
-Tenshi-
Isn't the title on the kantan glitched ?



I downloaded it 2 times and still get this.
Topic Starter
Weber
should be fixed now
Topic Starter
Weber
*dabs*
OzzyOzrock
[Joe's Kantan]
00:11:361 (2) - For these bits you ignore the 1/2 so as to follow the 1/1 rule, but I think that putting a note at 00:11:043 - and putting 00:11:361 (2) - at 00:11:519 it will fit the song much more without being too hard. If you disagree, as long as there is a note on 00:11:519 - that's fine. You would have to keep this consistent in later parts of the map. (00:53:583 - for example).

edit: im 10

Bubbled!
Stefan
[Oni]
00:52:472 (65,66,67) - and 00:53:107 (70,71,72) - you coulda try to use kkd instead. the idea of mapping it differently from the first loop is okay but dkk and kdk are imo a weird choice.
01:08:980 (2,3,4,5) - and 01:09:615 (6,7,8,9) - ^ except change it to kkd k.

[Muzukashii]
I'd say the difficulty is good enough but the break phases are lacking corresponding to the Oni difficulty.
00:10:726 (15,16) - might be removed.
00:43:742 (16,17) - ^ for consistency reasons.

[C-o-n-s-i-s-t-e-n-c-y]
00:15:488 (1) - Muzukashii and Oni are not using a Finisher sound while Futsuu does. Isn't this a bit weird?
00:25:646 (22,26,31) - ^ but the opposite. I mean if even the Kantan difficulty uses Finishers at these spots.. idk.
00:37:075 (52,54) - you didn't mind to use O o O in the Futsuu difficulty before so.. why here?

Don't forget to apply the changes of the first loop for the second too.
Topic Starter
Weber
applied all changes
Stefan
YOOOUUUUUUUUUUUU
Surono
YOOUUUU.me

dem w33ber gz `_L`
Aurele
AHHHH GURL
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