I still waited for this! Great job and congratulation, Mr. Armin-sama! :3
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Within Temptation - The Unforgiving
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omg grats!
50 MINS!
Excellent!
Excellent!
Hate to do this, but this needs to be unapproved. There's been too many complaints of timing issues and other problems. I understand that a lot of time and work was put into this, but there should have been more mods to make sure that there were no problems. This is a VERY long and intricate map, and should have been modded so hard that people were sick of looking at it! :p
I will look at the timing tomorrow morning, and then do a full mod afterward. I already know for a fact that some sections are 15-20ms off, one section has the wrong downbeat, and one section is incorrectly using 1/3 where the bpm should be a different value.
Also, here's a copypaste of some issues that another BAT brought up in chat while playing:
"timing is differently wrong on each song so far"
"with the video being black and white before, having the outer edge of the hitcircles black makes it impossible to see the approach circle hit the outer edge"
"and the beginning of the current song has hitbursts overlapping slidertrails"
I will look at the timing tomorrow morning, and then do a full mod afterward. I already know for a fact that some sections are 15-20ms off, one section has the wrong downbeat, and one section is incorrectly using 1/3 where the bpm should be a different value.
Also, here's a copypaste of some issues that another BAT brought up in chat while playing:
"timing is differently wrong on each song so far"
"with the video being black and white before, having the outer edge of the hitcircles black makes it impossible to see the approach circle hit the outer edge"
"and the beginning of the current song has hitbursts overlapping slidertrails"
/me sighs
Good luck.
Good luck.
Beatmap does not exist? :O
This is a mistake and will be resolved as soon as possible. The BAT apologies for any inconvenience caused, please be patient.Philippines wrote:
Beatmap does not exist? :O
It wasn't a mistake. I nuked it to show how much i disagree with this kind of map format.
(okay it was just a mistake)
(okay it was just a mistake)
Topic Starter
"I will go to sleep now, I hope to see many records tomorrow!"
nuff' said.
Call me for the new timing values.
nuff' said.
Call me for the new timing values.
sad
Good luck on it again ;_;
That's what I found as now:
the only wrong timing is Fire And Ice as now, 3/5 ms doesn't make the gameplay suffer. Offsets are checked through slowing the song and ears.
- Why Not Me
Offset: 2406 (-5), 15809(-5)
BPM: 143,25(Correct)
Notes: Violin's pretty hard to time, since you should find the peak. So I'm unsure if like this is more correct, you can use -2/3 though (Gaussian distribution of errors, the average value is the more probable) - Shot In The Dark
Offset: 39101(Correct)
BPM: 106,00(Correct)
Notes: the BAT who said "timing is differently wrong on each song so far"is wrong so far. - In the Middle of the Night
Offset: 337098(-7)
BPM: 200,00(Correct)
Notes: Alternative: -3/4 - Faster
Offset: 648736(Correct)
BPM: 120,00(Correct)
Notes: the BAT who said "timing is differently wrong on each song so far"is wrong so far.(x2) - Fire And Ice
Offset: I think there are more offsets
BPM: I think the BPM vary, especially at the start
Notes: Multi-Section Multi-BPM timing is though to find, though I can try to see if it's really simplier than it seems - Iron
Offset: 1150312(-9)
BPM: 132,000(Correct)
Notes: Alternative: -4/5 - Where Is The Edge
Offset: 1494676(-3)
BPM: 154,000(Correct)
Notes: Alternative: -1/2
the only wrong timing is Fire And Ice as now, 3/5 ms doesn't make the gameplay suffer. Offsets are checked through slowing the song and ears.
I will try to check the timing when I have time later.
no no no definitely not.
- Why Not Me
Offset: 2406 (-5), 15809(-5)
BPM: 143,25(Correct)
Notes: Violin's pretty hard to time, since you should find the peak. So I'm unsure if like this is more correct, you can use -2/3 though (Gaussian distribution of errors, the average value is the more probable)- Shot In The Dark
Offset: 39101(Correct)
BPM: 106,00(Correct)
Why Not Me:
-5ms on the first section
+15ms on the second section
Shot in the Dark:
-18ms (39083)
Middle of the Night:
-8ms (337095)
Faster:
fine (648736)
Fire and Ice:
skipping for now
Iron:
-8ms (1150313)
This should be 1/3 despite what derekku says.
Where is the Edge:
fine (1494679)
Sinead:
fine (1730551)
Lost:
-8ms (1994397)
Murder:
fine (2309000)
Demon's Fate:
fine (2565180)
Stairway:
-10ms (2896210)
move the downbeat back one white tick
Topic Starter
Haku and Lybydose, thanks a lot for the values, I'm testing them.
also, I'd like to know what Derekku thinks of them, before uploading any change.
Iron MUST be mapped in 1/3.
also, I'd like to know what Derekku thinks of them, before uploading any change.
Iron MUST be mapped in 1/3.
Heh, I was waiting for you to post and I was just about to start checking the timing. I looked at Iron earlier and saw that most of it IS in 1/3, but the intro to it sounds really weird... I think that it should use a different BPM there, but I'll post more details soon.
EDIT: Had to leave halfway through; will finish asap!
EDIT: Had to leave halfway through; will finish asap!
Topic Starter
Good good! I'm waiting for you!Derekku wrote:
EDIT: Had to leave halfway through; will finish asap!
I will leave a couple of things I noticed when playing this beast.
Oh and I didn't update if you changed your timing, so the timings in the mod may seem a little bit off. Shouldn't be hard to figure it out though. Lots of suggestions, however some stuff could really use fixing.
[Marathon]This is as far as I've gotten so far. I am too tired to proceed so I will continue tomorrow. Here atleast you have some things to check out.
Yeah got through it. Some songs aren't on the list cause there is nothing wrong with them imo.
Most of the sliders in the whole marathon aren't perfectly symmetrical and slightly off (or look really lazy, like 44:18:314 (8) or 44:19:881 (3)), but that doesn't bother me. However if you do feel like polishing them out, feel free to do so, they are quite obvious when you look at them in edit mode. If you don't, I'm fine as they are now though.
Oh and I didn't update if you changed your timing, so the timings in the mod may seem a little bit off. Shouldn't be hard to figure it out though. Lots of suggestions, however some stuff could really use fixing.
[Marathon]
- I actually recommend to lower the OD by 1 because the map is extremely long. Don't think anyone will SS this outright anyway.
- Recommending to lower the HPdrain by 1 more notch, to 4, because of the In the Middle of the Night, which is the hardest song and it's difficulty is a couple of times greater than any other map in the set. A marathon of this magnitude should be experienced by less skilled people too, so they just don't get blocked on that song.
- You should consider to match the combo colors of the individual songs/maps. The colors themselves are fine, but the order is not. This could be a lot of work, so up to you.
- 02:23:251 - I really feel that you should have a note here, cause currently it sounds a bit meh if you compare to the awesome impact in the music. Perhaps add a circle? You can place it on top of 02:23:817 (2) to preserve symmetry. You can also use a swap to normal hitsounds and place a finish on it to bring more impact. This suggestion is mainly because you mapped 02:41:365 (7) which is a similar thing and you have it mapped.
- 02:53:110 (1,2,3,4) - This is quite far, and because of a skin it sort of blends with the background. It would be no problem if it felt intuitive, but because they land on the red tick, people will click these either too early or too late. Since they are stacked, consider using a short kick slider instead, that would alleviate the confusion.
- 04:10:516 (4,5,6) - This is bad because the drum in the song is 1/3. Also people who play with a different skin set of hitsounds (like me, I use quite low volume sounds for precision) will notice this quite much and be confused.
- Just a thought: this is by far the hardest map in the marathon, and it's 2nd in order (if you don't count the intro song). Sort of a bad thing for a marathon, but I guess it can't be helped. Onward with the mod.
- 05:52:555 (4) - Clap? Sounds inconsistent without it, because you used it at 05:47:605 (3) end.
- 05:54:955 (1,2,3,4,5) - Should try claps on everything here. The drum is really important and this would make the buildup much stronger and epic.
- 06:09:505 (1) - Consider lowering this a little, it's upper end goes way off the HP bar and looks bad.
- 06:48:955 (5) - Why soft hitsound here? Drum is still present and sounds a bit wrong if you ask me.
- 06:53:905 (2) - Totally needs a finish if you ask me.
- 09:33:205 (2) - If you ctrl+r this, it flows better if you ask me, and you don't lose on symmetry at all.
- 09:40:705 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17) - The stream isn't properly symmetrical. Just saying, fix it if you want, you can see that the left side is off slightly.
- 09:49:255 (7,8) - This is not properly stacked. This needs to get fixed because they look incredibly confusing when using the default skin (skin toggle).
- 09:51:805 (1) - The path of the slider is actually going offscreen. You really need to change this somehow. Hardrock it and you will see that a good chunk of the slider track is offscreen, compared to nomod where nearly the whole slidertrack is behind the HPBar which is bad.
- Gameplay comment: 10:25:255 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - This is the hardest part in the marathon, by far. This is incredibly hard to hit. I would suggest to actually use some sliders here but it is up to you how you want this. I like how this looks, but it's really hard to play.
- 12:00:236 (3) - Clap at the end too? Sounds really good as the song builds up here.
- 12:02:486 (2) - I don't know if I messed this up by mistake but this doesn't look centered to me currently. Ignore this if it does to you.
- 12:04:736 - Add a note? Really important part in the music if you ask me. You could add a circle and stack it under the slider end and add a finish. Don't worry about the jump that would create for the next notes, it actually fits and is fun to play.
- 13:40:736 - Same thing as the above. You could place it just above 13:40:236 (7), or even on top of it.
- 14:24:736 - ^
- 20:40:017 (6,7,1) - Not a fan of super compression. When your skin is turned off it looks silly and bad. Don't really see the need for it either, just stack them imo.
- 21:31:230 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - I find this horribly unfitting. Also the first circle is off so it looks weird. If you remove circles 2 and 6 it follows the drums nicely and is more intuitive.
- 21:56:230 (2) - If possible you should do something about the position where it ends. The whole end circle is like 90% off the grid. Shouldn't be more than 50% if you ask me.
- 22:23:048 (1,2) - How nazi of me. But these are totally not symmetrical between each other and it's really visible. Should just fix the positions so they keep symmetry.
- 22:30:169 (3) - ctrl+r? Would be more symmetrical and it also plays fine, if not better, atleast in my opinion.
- 23:25:775 (3,4) - This kind of spacing is a problem. It's very difficult to read because on a pattern like this you would expect a 1/3 spacing, not 2/3. I actually tripped here because the nature of the pattern suggests 1/3 (imo). Since you cleverly (but too subtle) positioned the sliders in the combo, so they all start from one side, you should consider a new combo on 4 to atleast create some sort of attention to it.
- 24:07:896 (4) - Not centered. Oops.
- 24:30:320 (5) - A whistle feels a bit weak, try finish instead?
- 26:29:938 (8) - I wonder why is this slowed down when other similar ones aren't. Looks very inconsistent. Talking about 26:35:782 (9) when I said other similar ones.
- 26:40:653 - Should be a note here with a finish. It's a real shame that you didn't map this moment.
- 28:21:951 (1,2,3,4) - This follows the music, yeah, but I don't think it's readable just like that. This is the first 1/4 stream thats longer than 3 notes (which most were stacked) and you used lots of 1/3 before. A very bad idea, should change this somehow, maybe convert them into a circle+slider or something, not sure.
- 31:05:807 (7) - Add a clap too? Sounds better.
- 34:05:833 - Raise the volume here please, it's really too quiet.
- 36:24:476 (7) - I know that this follows the vocal but it's kinda weird cause it messes up the rhythm. Well at the moment just pointing this out, because I really have no idea how to fix this without ruining your pattern, but I would probably do something like this on the timeline, because that doesn't break the rhythm. Maybe try using that timeline as a base and create another pattern? You have lots of space after this anyway.
- 37:25:119 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - Spacing here is identical to 1/3 streams you used just before. Lower the spacing for the stream please, just a little bit. You won't have to break your pattern, it will just create a smaller arc which you compensate by moving the first (and the last) note closer to the center. As they are now, they could be mistaken for 1/3 which makes them hard to read.
- 39:50:268 (6,7,8) - Not centered properly. Fix it if you wish.
- 39:53:179 - Weird spot to end the kiai on. Try 39:51:388 (or a tick after if you want a new fountain here). Check 41:09:970, it's the same thing and you used it differently. You even used it differently on 42:32:582, which makes 3 different usages for the same thing.
- 40:30:791 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - The spacing in this combo is a bit iffy. You might want to fix that so it doesn't look shabby.
- 40:53:402 (5) - Not sure if intentional but this looks off, why not form a square?
- 42:28:999 (1,2,3,4) - Spacing. This wouldn't bother me too much if it was done in the completely opposite way, i.e. having circles on a smaller spacing and then the slider on the bigger, because a jump actually fits because of the vocals. Antijump totally doesn't fit.
- 43:13:612 (4,5,6,7) - I think the note 6 should not be where it is now. You should move it to 43:13:724 so it follows the music better (the drumline).
- 47:14:956 (5,6,7) - No idea why this is super compressed when it's symmetrical twin (47:15:851 (9,10,11)) is not. Instead of supercompression, just stack them please.
- 47:57:045 (1,2,3,4,5) - Eh, this spacing. Rather stack them or think of something else maybe. 4 and 5 can be very confusing to some people. Goes for all such patterns that happen here. For variety, you could have the triple stack in the middle and then a note at each side, would be much more readable and would still bring variety.
- 49:11:405 (8) - Not symmetrical and spacing is off by 0.1~. Should probably fix since I guess it's intention was to be symmetrical.
- 52:55:479 (6) - The border (the lower part) of the slider is offscreen slightly. Needs some repositioning.
- 52:56:466 (1,2,3,4) - This is difficult to read. Maybe use 2 repeaters and a circle? A circle ending in the middle while being surrounded by those repeaters on each side is also symmetrical, but it's much easier to read and a circle ending feels more epic to me.
Yeah got through it. Some songs aren't on the list cause there is nothing wrong with them imo.
Most of the sliders in the whole marathon aren't perfectly symmetrical and slightly off (or look really lazy, like 44:18:314 (8) or 44:19:881 (3)), but that doesn't bother me. However if you do feel like polishing them out, feel free to do so, they are quite obvious when you look at them in edit mode. If you don't, I'm fine as they are now though.
Mercurial is posting this pic to every unranked map, I guess -.-Mercurial wrote:
I hope it got approved soon.
[General]
*First of all, since uninherited sections and kiai both affect the main menu, they should be consistent across all difficulties. Actually, extra ones to affect volume/SV/etc. won't hurt anything, so you could really just have ONE set of lines and have them in EVERY difficulty. Would makes things easier AND more consistent! Don't forget to resnap/move back green lines after timing changes (since if they're after notes they won't be correct)
*Also, please correctly capitalize each difficulty's name according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unforg ... ck_listing for proper grammar!
*You could also fix the incorrect capitalization in the storyboard text!
*I'm not sure why there are 4 duplicate Armin files in the SB folder, but I'll check again once I nazi the SB on my full mod~
*Just make the preview point the same on every difficulty. Previews only change if you leave the Editor. I guess this isn't a bug (since mapsets are expected to use the same preview point one each diff), so yeah. I guess you just need to pick one good song and use that preview everywhere. :/
*Remember, this is just a timing mod; I'm quoting Lyby's post below as a reference/check for his timings:
*First of all, since uninherited sections and kiai both affect the main menu, they should be consistent across all difficulties. Actually, extra ones to affect volume/SV/etc. won't hurt anything, so you could really just have ONE set of lines and have them in EVERY difficulty. Would makes things easier AND more consistent! Don't forget to resnap/move back green lines after timing changes (since if they're after notes they won't be correct)
*Also, please correctly capitalize each difficulty's name according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unforg ... ck_listing for proper grammar!
*You could also fix the incorrect capitalization in the storyboard text!
*I'm not sure why there are 4 duplicate Armin files in the SB folder, but I'll check again once I nazi the SB on my full mod~
*Just make the preview point the same on every difficulty. Previews only change if you leave the Editor. I guess this isn't a bug (since mapsets are expected to use the same preview point one each diff), so yeah. I guess you just need to pick one good song and use that preview everywhere. :/
*Remember, this is just a timing mod; I'm quoting Lyby's post below as a reference/check for his timings:
Lybydose wrote:
[Why Not Me]
-5ms on the first section 2406? Agreed
+15ms on the second section 15829? Agreed
[Shot in the Dark]
-18ms (39083) Offset feels fine at the beginning, but then I start hitting -5, -10, -15... so it seems like the BPM is actually wrong. Here's what I get:
106.025 BPM; 39101
106.000 BPM; 95696
106.000 BPM; 215686
[In the Middle of the Night]
-8ms (337095) Actually that's -10, but anyway, It think that -15 would be better. Some parts felt slightly late with only -10. Also, I'm not sure about 10:35:005 to the ending, due to there only being guitar, but I suppose it sounds fine.
[Faster]
fine (648736) Yeah, I guess this is fine. I fluctuated between -5 and +5, so there's no need to change it.
[Fire and Ice]
skipping for now 8 timing points? blehhhh let's see...
Beginning: 70.04 BPM is definitely incorrect; 933535 offset is also incorrect. I tried 70.00, but that seemed to be a bit too slow... 70.015 BPM with 933525 offset seemed to approximate things nicely (tested with like 3 different bpms and even multiple sections to make sure).
140 BPM section: +10 (1022649)
Slowdown:
135 BPM; 1137505
130 BPM; 1139282
105 BPM; 1140205
105 BPM; 1141347 (to fix the downbeat)
[Iron]
-8ms (1150313) Agreed
This should be 1/3 despite what derekku says. This is one of those 1/3 songs that could alternatively be mapped with a faster bpm (132*3/2=198), 3/4 time signature, and 0.75x SV. That's why I said that it's "not 1/3", but I hadn't looked into the song enough and was just skimming through before unapproving. However, there's no need to change the timing like this, so no worries!
[Where is the Edge]
fine (1494679) Could actually use a -5 (1494674), but otherwise fine
[Sinead]
fine (1730551) Agreed
[Lost]
-8ms (1994397) Agreed
[Murder]
fine (2309000) Actually, this feels a bit late. Try -8 (2308992)
[A Demon's Fate]
fine (2565180) Agreed
[Stairway to the Skies]
-10ms (2896210) Actually, -5 felt waaaay too early in many spots. -5 should be more than enough (2896215)
move the downbeat back one white tick Yep!
52:56:466 (1,2,3,4) - okay this isn't timing but HOLYYYYYY that's just a plain evil way to end the marathon. These 1/3 notes are NOT expected at all, and I had no idea what was going on while playtesting. ):
Topic Starter
Fire and Ice 's timing is...erwwwwgh, I need other opinions on that.Lybydose wrote:
Why Not Me:
-5ms on the first section Hm... agreed.
+15ms on the second section This sounds too early here 00:26:711 (2,3) - for me.
Shot in the Dark:
-18ms (39083) Oh gawd, Derekku's timing sounds better, but there are some grey areas that feel just weird. I'll get other opinions.
Middle of the Night:
-8ms (337095) Agreed with -10ms
Faster:
fine (648736)
Fire and Ice:
skipping for now
Iron:
-8ms (1150313) Agreed
This should be 1/3 despite what derekku says.
Where is the Edge:
fine (1494679)
Sinead:
fine (1730551)
Lost:
-8ms (1994397) Fixed.
Murder:
fine (2309000) i used derekku's value
Demon's Fate:
fine (2565180)
Stairway:
-10ms (2896210)
move the downbeat back one white tickmoved downbeat and fixed with -5ms
my god, please don't compound bpms like that.. no music will ever be precisely 70.025 bpm or whatever, just get the closest round BPM possible and time out each specific offset drift if there are any
[Fire and Ice]
Section 1 BPM: 70
Offset: 933,495
don't know why this was ever 70.04, the bpm does not change at all. the song makes it sound like it at one point where the backing strings syncopate slightly as they fall, but the bpm is a steady 70 and playing reflects this
as far as the bpm slowing at the end goes, instate a new timing section for each beat mapped when you become unsure of the BPM. this one is tricky since it isn't a "controlled" fade so to speak (ie non-linear). i can't see any other way of fixing this otherwise.
you know, thinking about it, the only static timing changes should be made in marathon and fire and ice - the others can have online offsets applied and therein won't require a score reset
[Fire and Ice]
Section 1 BPM: 70
Offset: 933,495
don't know why this was ever 70.04, the bpm does not change at all. the song makes it sound like it at one point where the backing strings syncopate slightly as they fall, but the bpm is a steady 70 and playing reflects this
as far as the bpm slowing at the end goes, instate a new timing section for each beat mapped when you become unsure of the BPM. this one is tricky since it isn't a "controlled" fade so to speak (ie non-linear). i can't see any other way of fixing this otherwise.
you know, thinking about it, the only static timing changes should be made in marathon and fire and ice - the others can have online offsets applied and therein won't require a score reset
Topic Starter
Then please discuss it as a team as you did for the unapproval and find the best compromise, such as adding only online offsets or changing the lines in the whole mapset. I'm just waiting for your linear instructions, a better timing (the 50% of it "wrong for each song so far" consisted in some ms, otherwise was fine; "Shot in the Dark" and "Fire and Ice" 's timings are still wip, your alternative timing present bad sides that still need to be fixed), and to fix the various reasons for the unranking.
What's better for the team, to use an approximate value in "fire and ice" as ephemeral suggested or to improve the actual timing?
lolcubes, expect a answer from you mod post, it was useful in some point but in others I had to reject something.
I'd like to know something from the second section of "Why Not Me" because if we use your second offset, it sounds too early.
What's better for the team, to use an approximate value in "fire and ice" as ephemeral suggested or to improve the actual timing?
lolcubes, expect a answer from you mod post, it was useful in some point but in others I had to reject something.
I'd like to know something from the second section of "Why Not Me" because if we use your second offset, it sounds too early.
Some BPMs *aren't* perfect numbers, though. It makes no sense to use a round value if you have to add extra uninherited sections to fix the offset from being completely off during a section.Ephemeral wrote:
my god, please don't compound bpms like that.. no music will ever be precisely 70.025 bpm or whatever, just get the closest round BPM possible and time out each specific offset drift if there are any
I disagree with this as well. Adding a new uninherited section per beat is very random and unpredictable. It makes more sense to approximate it as much as possible which is what I did in my timing as opposed to the original (which *did* use new red lines per beat).Ephemeral wrote:
as far as the bpm slowing at the end goes, instate a new timing section for each beat mapped when you become unsure of the BPM. this one is tricky since it isn't a "controlled" fade so to speak (ie non-linear). i can't see any other way of fixing this otherwise.
We *never* apply online offsets per-difficulty, and it's not even possible (unless peppy can do it). Either way, like I said in my mod post, the timing should be the same in all difficulties. Also, scores have already been deleted because timing isn't the only issue in this mapset.Ephemeral wrote:
you know, thinking about it, the only static timing changes should be made in marathon and fire and ice - the others can have online offsets applied and therein won't require a score reset
There's nothing strange(controlled), the only thing I can do is moving it one grid4 pixel uplolcubes wrote:
[*]09:49:255 (7,8) - This is not properly stacked. This needs to get fixed because they look incredibly confusing when using the default skin (skin toggle).
256,4,589405,1,0
09:51:805 (1) - The path of the slider is actually going offscreen. You really need to change this somehow. Hardrock it and you will see that a good chunk of the slider track is offscreen, compared to nomod where nearly the whole slidertrack is behind the HPBar which is bad.had to use some small jumps to preserve the mapping and the symmetry
332,128,591205,1,0
256,40,591355,1,0
180,128,591505,1,4
388,20,591805,6,0,B|451:30|513:82|510:163|476:218,2,259.999995350838
256,108,592555,1,0
124,20,592705,2,0,B|60:30|-1:82|1:163|35:218,1,259.999995350838
132,288,593155,1,0
some, yes. i sincerely doubt a professionally mastered song such as this has a bpm of 70.04. the BPM for this song -is- 70, there should be no doubt about that.Derekku wrote:
Some BPMs *aren't* perfect numbers, though. It makes no sense to use a round value if you have to add extra uninherited sections to fix the offset from being completely off during a section.
then you have every note in that section being approximately wrong as opposed to each note having a chance of being correct. believe me, my experience with bad apple's timing has equated me substantially to what happens when an incorrect bpm is selected. each section of the fadeout is an individual note, which makes this a significantly easier option.Derekku wrote:
I disagree with this as well. Adding a new uninherited section per beat is very random and unpredictable. It makes more sense to approximate it as much as possible which is what I did in my timing as opposed to the original (which *did* use new red lines per beat).
looks like we have criteria to address then!Derekku wrote:
We *never* apply online offsets per-difficulty, and it's not even possible (unless peppy can do it). Either way, like I said in my mod post, the timing should be the same in all difficulties. Also, scores have already been deleted because timing isn't the only issue in this mapset.
some, yes. i sincerely doubt a professionally mastered song such as this has a bpm of 70.04. the BPM for this song -is- 70, there should be no doubt about that.tell that to Taylor Swift, aka #1 BPM troll
Speak NowLybydose wrote:
some, yes. i sincerely doubt a professionally mastered song such as this has a bpm of 70.04. the BPM for this song -is- 70, there should be no doubt about that.tell that to Taylor Swift, aka #1 BPM troll
BPM: 118.97
@_@
Yep. IIRC "You Belong With Me" had 3 uninherited sections and it was just very awkward.Lybydose wrote:
some, yes. i sincerely doubt a professionally mastered song such as this has a bpm of 70.04. the BPM for this song -is- 70, there should be no doubt about that.tell that to Taylor Swift, aka #1 BPM troll
Just because these are professional songs doesn't mean that the timing is perfect. :p
some, yes. i sincerely doubt a professionally mastered song such as this has a bpm of 70.04. the BPM for this song -is- 70, there should be no doubt about that.this is what we call music.
70bpm definitely works better with less drift in this case, anyhow. try it for yourself and see!
[General]
*IMO the hitcircle overlay is fine as-is, but the one provided in this thread should make things even better!
*I assume you're waiting to make the timing in each diff the same once you fix the Marathon diff?
*Many inherited sections are unsnapped, but it doesn't sound like any hitsounds were affected by it (since many are placed before notes [correct] as opposed to placing them on top of notes and then getting messed up by timing changes [incorrect]). You can use AIBat to check this but I think it's all fine.
[Storyboard]
*The logo at the top right of Within-Temptation.jpg is really low quality and noticeably different from the red text you use in the storyboard. It shouldn't be hard to find a higher quality version (even if you have to edit the image yourself).
*Can't you just put the videos in the .osb to avoid having to have them in each .osu? I mean I guess it doesn't matter, and it probably improves performance for difficulties that shouldn't have video, so I guess it's fine the way it is!
[Why Not Me]
Fine!
[Shot in the Dark]
*In addition to the timing from my last post (which also hasn't been changed yet), you can move the first uninherited section back two measures (34572) since that's where the music starts. Otherwise, the timing from the last song is used which isn't correct. (Done)
01:37:111 - I really don't understand why kiai starts here. Sure it's a build up to the chorus, but I feel like it makes the kiai at 01:37:960 much less powerful (plus two fountains in a row is a bit too much). I really suggest removing this first fountain.
02:53:101 - same as above
03:35:686 (2) - I think you're using the wrong sampleset here on the uninherited section.
04:09:648 (3,4,5) - inconsistent spacing; (4,5) currently looks like it's 1/4 or 1/6 apart when it's really 1/2
04:11:912 - could possibly remove this kiai section (since there's already many choruses).
04:30:025 - I'm surprised that you didn't add a kiai section here. o-o
05:24:082 (1) - perhaps make the end of this quieter
[In the Middle of the Night]
08:20:293 - I don't think that this extra kiai fountain is necessary; the other choruses don't have it in the middle...
09:40:693 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17) - A 17-note 200-bpm 1/4 stream? This a much more difficult than most other parts of the entire marathon...
09:42:043 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - this is also a bit too difficult (it's too spread out)
09:48:043 (4,5,6) - incorrect spacing which makes this section very confusing and disjoint from the other mappers
10:05:893 - Expected the last kiai section to end here.
10:24:493 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - Not as bad as the 17-note stream, but this one is more spread out and might even be more difficult. How about making these notes closer to each other?
[Faster]
*I really wish that the intro of this was mapped. It just feels so incomplete without it. ):
12:00:736 - unnecessary kiai
12:12:236 (1,2) - can't tell which is the slider and which is the note; the sliderticks will really screw up some players. The easiest solution is to change (2) into the new combo.
12:24:736 - kiai should end here, not a tick later
13:44:736 - unn. kiai
14:43:986 (6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - I really suggest spacing these closer
14:44:861 (1) - this didn't fit imo; if you had mapped the outro, then sure; but I think that ending with the previous stream would be better.
[Fire and Ice]
*Just like in "Shot in the Dark", move the first uninherited section back to where the music starts. In this case, 6 measures (912957).
16:33:083 (1,3) - difficult to see which is the note and which is the slider. How about making 16:31:798 (6) a new combo along with 16:33:512 (3) like this: http://puu.sh/QiYj
*I actually expected some kiai in this song O: Perhaps add a section or two?
[Iron]
20:40:009 (6,7,1) - didn't expect these 1/6 notes, and them being in the corner makes them a bit hard to see. I suggest replacing them with a 1/6 slider.
22:50:009 (2,3,4) - I'd spread these out more; they looked like 1/6 notes compared to 1/3 ones like 22:51:222 (6,7,8,9,10,11,12).
23:23:040 (1,2,3,7,8,9) - expected these 1/6 notes spaced closer together (the notes in each stream, that is)
23:50:313 - kiai should start here (at the chorus), not measures before (at the buildup to the chorus).
24:04:858 - could add another fountain here since this last chorus is much more powerful than the previous ones
24:30:312 (5) - I'd make this its own new combo to make it easier to read. The overlapping notes make it kinda hard to see otherwise.
24:32:282 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - maybe move these down and right a little bit... otherwise the stacking nearly makes them overlap the previous slider
24:33:949 - kiai ending here fits better imo
24:34:100 (1) - perhaps make the ending quieter or do a decrescendo
[Where is the Edge]
*Move the timing section back two measures (1491562)
26:03:250 - unn. kiai fountain
27:05:198 (6) - stacking this with subsequent 1/4 notes is pretty confusing... please change the new combo so it's like this: 27:17:666 (5,1,2,3)
27:11:821 - unn. kiai fountain
27:24:289 - kiai should end here to be consistent with the first chorus
28:10:263 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - yeah this really doesn't flow well and is extremely unexpected; i suggest making them into 1/3 sliders
28:11:042 - expected kiai to start here
28:17:081 (3) - should be a new combo like the above
28:21:951 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - wowwwww this sounds horribly awkward going from random 1/4 to random 1/3. I'm not even sure what to suggest in its place but this definitely needs to be changed.
28:32:958 (1) - shorten by 1/4
[Sinéad]
*Oh my god the purple in this map looks AMAZING. It would be so powerful if you actually DID do colorhax in the marathon... it'd just take FOREVER and isn't really worth it hahaha..ha.. ):
*I expected a spinner for a couple measures in the outro, but otherwise this map is fine!
[Lost]
33:31:968 (3,5) - a bit ambiguous between which is the note and which is the slider
33:37:111 (2,4) - ^
33:49:968 (3,5) - ^
34:33:682 (2,3) - ^
35:53:825 - kiai should end here, not on a random blue tick
36:24:468 (7) - extend 1/4; where you have it now ends on "wicKed", but the white tick would be "wickeD" like it should be.
*The section after the break is a bit confusing... switching between 1/3 and 1/4 streams? It's really not obvious which is which :/
37:49:539 - expected kiai to end here; or perhaps do a new fountain?
37:54:254 (2,3) - a bit ambiguous between which is the note and which is the slider
[Murder]
39:54:962 - expected the kiai to end on a downbeat (like this) [you can manually move the break too for a nice effect: http://puu.sh/Qk94]
41:13:768 - ^ [the break looks like it's been manually moved but it's 1/4 off: http://puu.sh/Qk9q]
41:28:096 - this kiai fountain feels unnecessary
41:42:424 - ^
42:36:156 - end kiai on the downbeat here, not on a random blue tick
[A Demon's Fate]
44:03:985 - expected the kiai to start here, not halfway through the chorus ):
44:14:508 (1) - not sure why this is a new combo by itself
44:32:642 - end kiai here
44:46:971 - expected a note here and on the previous red tick
47:35:329 - kiai should end here, not on a blue tick
47:49:657 - ^
47:57:493 (4,5) - even though the pattern is obvious from the previous measures, these are hard to distinguish from 1/4 notes and are just asking for a combobreak ):
47:58:389 (4,5) - ^
[Stairway to the Skies]
*Where's the kiai in the choruses? D:
51:22:511 (2) - please raise the volume so that the ticks are audible; 5% is too low for something like this
52:35:844 (5,6) - can't tell which is the slider and which is the note
52:38:807 (5,6) - ^
52:50:659 (5,6) - ^
52:57:325 (4) - where's the finish?
*IMO the hitcircle overlay is fine as-is, but the one provided in this thread should make things even better!
*I assume you're waiting to make the timing in each diff the same once you fix the Marathon diff?
*Many inherited sections are unsnapped, but it doesn't sound like any hitsounds were affected by it (since many are placed before notes [correct] as opposed to placing them on top of notes and then getting messed up by timing changes [incorrect]). You can use AIBat to check this but I think it's all fine.
[Storyboard]
*The logo at the top right of Within-Temptation.jpg is really low quality and noticeably different from the red text you use in the storyboard. It shouldn't be hard to find a higher quality version (even if you have to edit the image yourself).
*Can't you just put the videos in the .osb to avoid having to have them in each .osu? I mean I guess it doesn't matter, and it probably improves performance for difficulties that shouldn't have video, so I guess it's fine the way it is!
[Why Not Me]
Fine!
[Shot in the Dark]
01:37:111 - I really don't understand why kiai starts here. Sure it's a build up to the chorus, but I feel like it makes the kiai at 01:37:960 much less powerful (plus two fountains in a row is a bit too much). I really suggest removing this first fountain.
02:53:101 - same as above
03:35:686 (2) - I think you're using the wrong sampleset here on the uninherited section.
04:09:648 (3,4,5) - inconsistent spacing; (4,5) currently looks like it's 1/4 or 1/6 apart when it's really 1/2
04:11:912 - could possibly remove this kiai section (since there's already many choruses).
04:30:025 - I'm surprised that you didn't add a kiai section here. o-o
05:24:082 (1) - perhaps make the end of this quieter
[In the Middle of the Night]
08:20:293 - I don't think that this extra kiai fountain is necessary; the other choruses don't have it in the middle...
09:40:693 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17) - A 17-note 200-bpm 1/4 stream? This a much more difficult than most other parts of the entire marathon...
09:42:043 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - this is also a bit too difficult (it's too spread out)
09:48:043 (4,5,6) - incorrect spacing which makes this section very confusing and disjoint from the other mappers
10:05:893 - Expected the last kiai section to end here.
10:24:493 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - Not as bad as the 17-note stream, but this one is more spread out and might even be more difficult. How about making these notes closer to each other?
[Faster]
*I really wish that the intro of this was mapped. It just feels so incomplete without it. ):
12:00:736 - unnecessary kiai
12:12:236 (1,2) - can't tell which is the slider and which is the note; the sliderticks will really screw up some players. The easiest solution is to change (2) into the new combo.
12:24:736 - kiai should end here, not a tick later
13:44:736 - unn. kiai
14:43:986 (6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - I really suggest spacing these closer
14:44:861 (1) - this didn't fit imo; if you had mapped the outro, then sure; but I think that ending with the previous stream would be better.
[Fire and Ice]
*Just like in "Shot in the Dark", move the first uninherited section back to where the music starts. In this case, 6 measures (912957).
16:33:083 (1,3) - difficult to see which is the note and which is the slider. How about making 16:31:798 (6) a new combo along with 16:33:512 (3) like this: http://puu.sh/QiYj
*I actually expected some kiai in this song O: Perhaps add a section or two?
[Iron]
20:40:009 (6,7,1) - didn't expect these 1/6 notes, and them being in the corner makes them a bit hard to see. I suggest replacing them with a 1/6 slider.
22:50:009 (2,3,4) - I'd spread these out more; they looked like 1/6 notes compared to 1/3 ones like 22:51:222 (6,7,8,9,10,11,12).
23:23:040 (1,2,3,7,8,9) - expected these 1/6 notes spaced closer together (the notes in each stream, that is)
23:50:313 - kiai should start here (at the chorus), not measures before (at the buildup to the chorus).
24:04:858 - could add another fountain here since this last chorus is much more powerful than the previous ones
24:30:312 (5) - I'd make this its own new combo to make it easier to read. The overlapping notes make it kinda hard to see otherwise.
24:32:282 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - maybe move these down and right a little bit... otherwise the stacking nearly makes them overlap the previous slider
24:33:949 - kiai ending here fits better imo
24:34:100 (1) - perhaps make the ending quieter or do a decrescendo
[Where is the Edge]
*Move the timing section back two measures (1491562)
26:03:250 - unn. kiai fountain
27:05:198 (6) - stacking this with subsequent 1/4 notes is pretty confusing... please change the new combo so it's like this: 27:17:666 (5,1,2,3)
27:11:821 - unn. kiai fountain
27:24:289 - kiai should end here to be consistent with the first chorus
28:10:263 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - yeah this really doesn't flow well and is extremely unexpected; i suggest making them into 1/3 sliders
28:11:042 - expected kiai to start here
28:17:081 (3) - should be a new combo like the above
28:21:951 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - wowwwww this sounds horribly awkward going from random 1/4 to random 1/3. I'm not even sure what to suggest in its place but this definitely needs to be changed.
28:32:958 (1) - shorten by 1/4
[Sinéad]
*Oh my god the purple in this map looks AMAZING. It would be so powerful if you actually DID do colorhax in the marathon... it'd just take FOREVER and isn't really worth it hahaha..ha.. ):
*I expected a spinner for a couple measures in the outro, but otherwise this map is fine!
[Lost]
33:31:968 (3,5) - a bit ambiguous between which is the note and which is the slider
33:37:111 (2,4) - ^
33:49:968 (3,5) - ^
34:33:682 (2,3) - ^
35:53:825 - kiai should end here, not on a random blue tick
36:24:468 (7) - extend 1/4; where you have it now ends on "wicKed", but the white tick would be "wickeD" like it should be.
*The section after the break is a bit confusing... switching between 1/3 and 1/4 streams? It's really not obvious which is which :/
37:49:539 - expected kiai to end here; or perhaps do a new fountain?
37:54:254 (2,3) - a bit ambiguous between which is the note and which is the slider
[Murder]
39:54:962 - expected the kiai to end on a downbeat (like this) [you can manually move the break too for a nice effect: http://puu.sh/Qk94]
41:13:768 - ^ [the break looks like it's been manually moved but it's 1/4 off: http://puu.sh/Qk9q]
41:28:096 - this kiai fountain feels unnecessary
41:42:424 - ^
42:36:156 - end kiai on the downbeat here, not on a random blue tick
[A Demon's Fate]
44:03:985 - expected the kiai to start here, not halfway through the chorus ):
44:14:508 (1) - not sure why this is a new combo by itself
44:32:642 - end kiai here
44:46:971 - expected a note here and on the previous red tick
47:35:329 - kiai should end here, not on a blue tick
47:49:657 - ^
47:57:493 (4,5) - even though the pattern is obvious from the previous measures, these are hard to distinguish from 1/4 notes and are just asking for a combobreak ):
47:58:389 (4,5) - ^
[Stairway to the Skies]
*Where's the kiai in the choruses? D:
51:22:511 (2) - please raise the volume so that the ticks are audible; 5% is too low for something like this
52:35:844 (5,6) - can't tell which is the slider and which is the note
52:38:807 (5,6) - ^
52:50:659 (5,6) - ^
52:57:325 (4) - where's the finish?
Topic Starter
No, no, no. I still didn't upload it because I was expecting the "big mod" from you, and I wanted to avoid to full-submit everything a lot of times. By the way, it's kinda impossible to hope so nevermind. That's why you can't see the changes, I still have to upload them.
This is a complex marathon, every single thing I change in the single difficulties has to be mirrored in the marathon.
I bugged you two weeks ago just for this:
This is a complex marathon, every single thing I change in the single difficulties has to be mirrored in the marathon.
I bugged you two weeks ago just for this:
And for obvious reasons I cannot fix these "other problems" If none writes or deepens them.Derekku wrote:
There's been too many complaints of timing issues and other problems
"with the video being black and white before, having the outer edge of the hitcircles black makes it impossible to see the approach circle hit the outer edge"
"and the beginning of the current song has hitbursts overlapping slidertrails"